I'm toying with playing a paladin whose main "schtick" is swearing a blue streak all the time. I know opinions may vary, but is there anything fundamentally un-paladinish (i.e., dishonorable) about using coarse language?
Also, I want to be creative with it instead of just overusing four-letter words. Can anyone think of any 1) Golarion racial slurs and 2) invocations (e.g., "By Calistria's chaotic coochie!") that I could use to add some local flavor?
(If it matters, (s)he'll be a city-raised half-orc intimidation build with Blade of Mercy, Enforcer, and Steel Skin, and will dip into Thug.)
There are many situations where your paladin would bring about dishonor and ill-repute to his/her chosen deity by excessive use of profanity. Depending on the circles (s)he frequents that can become a real pain or be trivial.
For some characters I like to invoke non-existent deity body parts: "By Iomedae!'s beard" - "By the skin of [skeleton god]"
I would expect a paladin to take "swearing oaths" (using a deity's name in vain) a bit more seriously than using "vulgar language" (referencing body parts and excretions). They are two fairly different taboos even though we lump them together.
As for suggestions, my half-orc has an ongoing thing with another party member where they make fun of each other's skin color... he ends arguments with "... yeah, but you're green!" and I shout "Pinkskin!" and it kinda goes like that until the rest of the party yells at us.
I agree with LoreKeeper, and would also add that it may depend on what deity he/she follows. A paladin of Shelyn, for example, would almost certainly oppose the use of coarse language, because it's "ugly."
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Vulgarity is a cultural thing far more than it is religious, though the two are obviously related. I'd say it would be dependent on which deity the paladin follows - some of the stuffier ones will certainly have prohibitions against vulgarity and swearing, but not all of them. Torag, for example, should have a fine tradition of profanity, since he's a forge god, and you really need the ability to swear when you whack your finger with a hammer or set your beard on fire.
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I would fully encourage such a concept, if for no other reason than it creates more variety in Paladin concepts. I think one of the hangups I've always had with Paladins is that my "default" for them is "Good Christian Soldier," which really cramps the creativity. I have to consciously break from the default position to engage in making a character. I try to steer away from the whole boyscout image. I mean, being a boyscout can be fun, but I hate to limit it to just that.
Clear it with your GM (something you should do anyway with a paladin, just to make sure you both are on the same page as far as expectations, code, etc.) but you're not breaking any actual rules by it. Not every paladin needs be diplomatic or socially adept.
I don't mean beg, I just mean make sure you're on the same expectations. Like I said, something I always recommend doing with Paladins, just so everyone's on the same wavelength.
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*If* your Paladin worships a specific diety (and some very much don't), you should probably avoid coarse language about your own chosen diety, and it's generally just good taste to avoid saying rude things about the chosen dieties of your current company.
But there's no reason why a Paladin of Torag (or one with no specific diety preference) couldn't swear by 'Calistria's honeyed thighs' or 'Cayden's drunken arse' or whatever, so long as one isn't surrounded by worshippers of those two dieties.
I'd avoid, in descending order of importance;
1) One's own god, if applicable.
2) Gods typically frequented by other Paladins (Iomedae, Torag and Erastil primarily, and Sarenrae, Shelyn, Abadar and Irori, secondarily).
3) Racial or divine or gender-related slurs relevant to people you are currently traveling with or speaking with (barring enemies!).
The third category could constitute hurtful language or even blasphemy, so it's, IMO, un-Paladinly to behave in a way that is hurtful to allies and companions and random innocent passers-by. (Nobody cares if you hurt a goblin or cultist or demon's feelings by calling it a Lamashtan sockpuppet or whatever!)
Salty, earthy or coarse language *might* be more or less appropriate, depending on the god chosen, as well. A Shelynite might use shockingly sexual language, but strenuously avoid 'ugly' hurtful or belittling language. A Torag worshipping dwarf might use some nasty racial epithets when talking about orcs or goblinoids, and even express some unkind sentiments about elves, and Calistrians in particular. One Iomedan might have some uncharitable opinions of Asmodeans, while another, working side by side with Asmodeans as part of the Godclaw Hellknights, might reserve her ire (and her heated words) for chaotic gods and lawless peoples.
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I think it could all too easily get tiresome or irritating pretty fast.
If you remember the TV series "Deadwood", the profanity there, while serving a dramatic purpose, was a major obstacle for many viewers. You need to be very sure that the other people at the table will be if not comfortable, at least tolerant of the way you play your character.
Dwarf Paladin would swear a lot.
I agree with LoreKeeper, and would also add that it may depend on what deity he/she follows. A paladin of Shelyn, for example, would almost certainly oppose the use of coarse language, because it's "ugly."
As a player of a paladin of Shelyn, I disagree. You could make quite the art form out of vulgarity should you desire. As a judge once said (paraphrased): I cannot tell you the difference between art and pornography, but I know it when I see it.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Since time immemorial, warriors of many cultures have a tradition of using strong language. The reason is that it's the language of violence. Some paladins might try to stay above that, but others might not. George Washington, reportedly, was scrupulous in his speech, except in combat, when he'd curse to make a sailor blush.
Just because someone is Lawful Good doesn't mean that the stick is shoved ALL THE WAY up his ass. If the situation is appropriate, sure he can curse (like a quick "f*** my life" if the group is about to get attacked by a giant horrible monster or a good old "son of a b****" if the platform he's standing on is about to collapse out from under him).
I agree with LoreKeeper, and would also add that it may depend on what deity he/she follows. A paladin of Shelyn, for example, would almost certainly oppose the use of coarse language, because it's "ugly."As a player of a paladin of Shelyn, I disagree. You could make quite the art form out of vulgarity should you desire. As a judge once said (paraphrased): I cannot tell you the difference between art and pornography, but I know it when I see it.
However, the hesitation with this is that it would have to be elevated to an art form, to the point of which the paladin must be very careful about their words - something that my friends who tend to use coarse languages usually aren't (by definition in most cases, as it's 'course'); Shelynites are known to be charming artists of inspirational beauty, not those who insult and belittle. Again, nothing wrong with a Shelynite truly being an artists (could even take ranks in craft (curse words)), but I get the feeling the OP is just talking about someone who says what they say without really thinking too much about it and has a hard time controlling their mouth (i.e. like most people I know who swear a lot). Also, Shelyn wouldn't be pleased with an "incredibly foul-mouthed" paladin, as the title suggests, because, by nature, the mouth is foul. An artist? Sure. Foul? Not so much. That's personal interpretation, though.
I fully agree that Torag would likely have a lot of swears under his belt. Erastil tends to seem to be a patron of "crude" (in many circles) people, so I could see a fair argument made for such. Iomedae seems extremely unlikely.
That said, there's no prohibition in the paladin's code from course speech.
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Great comments, thanks. My plan is to worship Sarenrae, mainly because I want to do nonlethal damage and Blade of Mercy is a great trait. She is a goddess of temperance and compassion, so the swearing won't be out of anger or hatred, but rather that's just the way I was raised and speech without profanity seems to be lofty, or putting on airs. I would consider other deities if they're more fitting.
Definitely I would clear the character with both the GM and the other players before deciding to play it. I definitely don't want anyone to be offended OOC, so if anyone has sensitive ears I might do only British-style swears ("you bloody wankers!") or completely Golarion-specific oaths ("you loathsome lemures!")
As I'm envisioning it, this character would definitely be swearing a lot, like, every time I open my mouth. Perhaps tamped down in the presence of nobility. This is the main reason I want to have a huge vocabulary of profanity - no doubt the table will start to hate me if I'm recycling the same mundane filth over and over, but if I can keep things "fresh" and make people laugh then I'll consider the character a success. Here's some of what I have so far:
Invocations
By Calistria's unquenchable chlamydia!
By Cayden Cailean's wine-soaked wiener!
By horny Old Deadeye's longbow!
By Iomedae's shiny metal a**!
By Irori's perfect handj**s!
By Lamashtu's putrid pregnancy!
By Asmodeus' flaming a**hole!
By Sarenrae's conflagration of a c***!
By Cayden's holy hangover! [thanks Booksy!]
By Irori's foggy glasses! [thanks Booksy!]
Slurs
Halflings
halfie
little'un
goober
Elves
nancy
tree-f***er
longears
Dwarves
short stack
stone midget
stuntie
carpet-c***
gnome [thanks Booksy!]
Gnomes
pixie
peewee
color-c***
Half-elves
in-between
half-and-half
half-person
Humans
pinkie
rabbit
cosmo
I'd love to hear some more!
Also, consider the different types of profanity: obscenity (sexual), scatology (bodily functions, particularly excretory), and blasphemy (references to the divine). A paladin might engage in one of them while still being strongly averse to others.
Zon Kuthon's cock ring!
Cthulu's tentacled beard!
Asmodeus's bureaucrats!
Make up your mind! You're about as indecisive as Nethys!
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I don't think foul mouthing is bad per se, but:
Be careful about slurs.
Paladins are often pretty charismatic, people tend to listen to them, believe them, look up to them. Constant use of slurs could
a) make offended people feel bad about themselfs, starting to believe in the slur.
b) make the offended people start to be disgusted by the paladin and possibly his faith
c) make other people believe the slurs and start treating the offended people accordingly.
Those are consequences that fall on the offending paladin.
Foul language starts being a problem for a paladin if it has consequences beyond people being mildly offended or amused.
If you are a man people look up to or trust and you start calling every half elf 'half people', that will influence how your peers will treat half elves.
Just for consideration.
Don't misunderstand me. I have nothing against paladins that aren't cardboard cutouts. Some of my best friends are paladins that aren't cardboard cutouts. I'm just here to voice legitimate concerns.
You see, you seem to be planning on giving your paladin a trait. Which is fine on its own. I love giving characters traits! I think everyone should have traits! But... think for a moment. Suppose this trait you're proposing were your character's entire personality. Wouldn't that be tiresome? You wouldn't even have a character - no backstory, no emotions, not even a name, just an endless stream of swearing. Don't you think that would get boring quickly?
That's why, as much as I support interesting paladins, I do think it would be better if you were to discard this silly notion and just play a standard uptight boy scout. That's the only way a truly deep and complex character can be achieved: sticking with the tested cardboard archetype and never varying it in any manner.
I'm just trying to be helpful. You and the rest of your table will thank me.
It was 3.5 and a homebrew campaign world, but the last paladin I played was "Duke," inspiried by Clint Eastwood's "Man With No Name" from the old Spaghetti Westerns, crossed with the Lone Ranger.
Duke was a paladin of Narlag the Uplifter, Champion of the Downtrodden, the neutral good god of Travel, Generosity, and Hope.
Duke never met a lost cause he wouldn't fight for, or a bully he wouldn't challenge. He was always nice to children and polite to ladies and legitimate authorities. At the same time, he was grim, direct, and cursed like a sailor. He always smoked a stinky cigar, drank heavily, and regularly patronized bordellos... but none of these were proscribed by his faith or interfered with his quest to right the wrongs of the world.
As for stats, he was a lightly-armored crossbow specialist-- a "ranged smite" kind of guy. [Which was not normally allowed in 3.5: the GM allowed a feat from some third-party source that allowed a paladin to use his Smite Evil with a ranged attack.] Duke also had Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple for the barfights he inevitably found himself in.
So, yeah, you can play a paladin as something other than Sir Galahad.
Kind and straightforward as always, Ms. Yang.
Kind and straightforward as always. :)
As soon as I saw the thread title I was like *zoink*!