What do you guys think about a Fighter (weaponmaster)4/Samurai6/Mammoth Rider10?
You pick up all these neat archery feats (just leaving out snap feats), pick a huge cat as mount with 10 STR and 6 KON more than usual, huge size natural attacks and pounce.
Then you ride your cat fullattacking from the back of your mount - not that much worse than an archer fighter while the cat is puncing around, grabing, awesome blowing and stuff. If you can get the snap feats you can use the mount to cause some AoO's while pouncing (not yet sure whats the best way to do so)
I will look at it more in detail when I have some more time - but what do y'all think?
And yea, I know, the size of the mount sucks - but seriously, have you EVER seen something cooler than that?
also, my biggest concern riding into battle as an archer, would be riding towards the enemies, not away from them. the optimal point of a mount as an archer, is to keep you away from bad guys, not charge towards them
How exactly would you get an Animal Companion from this combination?
Samurai, then the feat that make the cavalier mount scale with character level
Also dude I actually think a Fell Rider is a better idea with an archer, since you can overrun someone and still fire arrows.
Heck, 2 levels of Hellknight in that mix would be great for the terrifying effect.
My archer druid rides her large cat animal companion. She normally stays out of melee due to concern about being attacked, but on occasion she has been in melee while mounted and bow using.
I'm not exactly sure how attacks of opportunity work if you are riding a huge animal. In the case of a large animal my GM has always ruled that my drid is adjacent to anything my AC is adjacent too, thus making for risky bow attacks in melee.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Huge gives it 10 foot reach so no need to be adjacent. Assuming they survive the pounce, they can then step in and be adjacent...
What? I've just been mauled by a 15-foot WIDE tiger, and you want me to step towards it?!?
I know, why don't I towel-flick his love spuds while I'm there, just to make sure he hasn't forgotten me?
the reach is actually 15ft due to mammoth rider - let my post my build right quick
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I actually like him
Sau Stark
CG Human (+2 dex)Fighter 4, Samurai 6, Mamoth Rider 10
Immune: dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered, stunned
25 pointbuy:
Str: 16 + 6 (enhancement) + 4 (inherent) = 26 (+8)
Dex: 17 + 2 (human) + 5 (level) + 6 (enhancement) + 4 (inherent) = 34 (+12)
Kon: 12 + 2 (enhancement) = 14 (+2)
Int: 12 (+0)
Wis: 12 + 6 (enhancement) = 18 (+4)
Cha: 7 (-2)
Hit Dice: 20d10 + 46
Hit Points: 156
AC: 10 +12 (armor) +8 (dex) +4 (deflection) +4 (natural armor) + 1 (insight) = 39 [Touch 23, Flat-footed 31]
Ini: +12
Speed: 20ft
Saves
Fort: 14 (base) + 2 (con) + 5 (cloak) +1 (stone)= 22
Ref: 6 (base) + 12 (dex) + 5 (cloak) +1 (stone)= 24
Will: 6 (base) + 4 (wis) + 5 (cloak) + 2 (Iron Will) +1 (stone)= 18
CMD: 10 + 12 (GAB) + 17 (str) + 6 (dex) + 2 (size) + 4 (deflection) = 51
reach 15ft
Ranged attack, frost composite longbow +5:
Atk: +20 (BAB) +12 (dex) +2 (Bracers of Archery) +5 (enhancement) +3 (weapon training) +1 (weapon focus) = +42 [+1 vs large/huge, +2 vs garg./coloss., +1 within 30ft] (2 less if Cat is charging)
Dmg: 1d8 +1d6 (frost) +5 (enhancement) + 1 (Bracers of Archery) +3 (weapon training) + 8 (str) + 2 (weapon spec.) = 1d8 +1d6 +19 [+1 vs large/huge, +2 vs garg./coloss., +1 within 30ft]
attack: +42/+37/+32/+27 (1d8 +1d6 +19/x3)
rapid shot: +40/+40/+35/+30/+25 (1d8 +1d6 +19/x3)
Deadly aim: +36/+31/+26/+21 (1d8 +1d6 +31/x3)
Deadly aim, rapidshot: +34/+34/+29/+24/+19 (1d8 +1d6 +31/x3)
Deadly aim, rapidshot, challenge: +37/+37/+32/+27/+22 (1d8 +1d6 +43/x3)
Deadly aim, rapidshot, challenge, hast: +38/+38/+38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8 +1d6 +43/x3)
Feats:
Precise Shot
Point Blank Shot (human bonus)
Rapid Shot (fighter bonus)
Weapon Focus [Longbow]
Deadly Aim (fighter bonus)
Boon Companion
Manyshot
Point Blank Master
Snap Shot (samurai bonus)
Mounted Archer
Improved precise Shot
Iron Will (mammoth rider bonus)
Combat Reflexes
Greater Snap Shot
Clustered Shots?
Class and Racial abilities:
Weapon Guard (+5 DMD vs sunder/disarm, Gloves of Dueling)
Weapontraining (+3 atk/dmg, Gloves of Dueling)
Challenge 3/day (+4 atk, +12 dmg)
Mount
Order of the Sword
Resolve 3/day (roll twice for Fort/Will save)
Weapon Expertise (Longbow)
Banner
Gigantic Steed (huge size)
Steed
Wild Coercion
Born Survivor
Colossus Hunter +1
rapid straddle
rugged steed +1
Mistrust of Magic (+2 saves gegen Spells)
undaunted
Valiant Devotion
Hunter's Instinct (Quarry)
Mammoth Lord (immunities to conditions, "evasion" for fort/will-based effects, when rider + mount attack one target in the same round it has to save vs 34 (fort) or is stunned for 1 round
Equipment
Champion's Banner
Vambraces of the Tactician
cracked pale green ioun stone
Belt of physical might (str/dex) +6
ioun stone (+2 kon)
headband of wis +6
tome (+4 str)
tome (+4 dex)
cloak of resistance
amulet of natural armor +4
ring of protection +4
celestial fullplate
greater bracers of archery
gloves of dueling
+5 frost composite longbow
ioun stone (+1 AC)
boots of speed
different arrows
Cat Astrophy
Animal Companion
Huge Tiger
Str: 13 (base) + 8 (7th lvl advancement) + 1 (lvl) + 6 (AC progression) + 10 (size, Mammoth Rider) + 6 (enhancement) = 44 (+17)
Dex: 17 (base) - 2 (7th level advancement) +6 (AC progression) +1 (lvl) = 22 (+6)
Con: 13 (base) + 4 (7th level advancement) + 1 (lvl) + 6 (Mammoth Rider) = 24 (+7)
Int: 2 (base) +1 (lvl) = 3
Wis: 15 (base) + 6 (enhancement) = 21 (+5)
Hit Dice: 16d8 + 112
Hit Points: 184
AC: 10 +9 (armor) +6 (dex) +4 (deflection) +18 (natural armor) -2 (size) + 1 (insight) = 46 [Touch 19, Flat-footed 40] (2 less with lunge)
Ini: +6
Speed: 40ft
Saves
Fort: 10 (base) + 7 (con) + 5 (cloak) = 22
Ref: 10 (base) + 6 (dex) + 5 (cloak) = 21
Will: 5 (base) + 5 (wis) + 5 (cloak) + 2 (Iron Will) = 17 +4 vs compulsion/charm effects
CMB : 12 (GAB) + 17 (Str) + 2 (size) + 1 (ioun stone) + 4 (enhancment) = 36 [+40 Overrun]
CMD: 10 + 12 (GAB) + 17 (str) + 6 (dex) + 2 (size) + 4 (deflection) = 51
reach 15ft
AB: 12 (GAB) + 17 (str) + 4 (enhancement) + 1 (ioun stone) -2 (size) = +34 [+29 Power Attack]
DMG: 2d6 + 17 (str) + 4 (enhancement) = 2d6 + 22 [+32 Power Attack]
Fullattack:
+29/+29/+29 (2d6 +32/x2)
Pounce:
+31/+31/+31/+31/+31, (2d6 +32/x2)
SQ:
Pounce, rake (2d6)
Valiant Devotion (+4 vs compulsion/charm effects)
Steed's Reach (15ft)
Pulverizing Assault (first charge/round staggers 1d4 rounds, Fort-save DC: 35)
Feats:
Iron Will
Power Attack
Improved natural Attacks (Claws)
Improved Overrun
Greater Overrun
Charge Through
Lunge
Combat Reflexes
Equipment:
Headband wis +6
Belt str +6
Cloak of Resistance +5
Amulet of Mighty Fists +4
Ring of Protection +4
Mithral barding chainshirt +5
AC ioun stone
+1 AB ioun stone
Boots of Speed
In case of both fullattacking thats probably the best Archer-DPR after Palas smiting undead, some more to hit on Cat Astrophy would be neat though - maybe you have some suggestions to optimize this even more.
It would be even better if I found a way for Cat Astrophy to cause some more AoO to really make use of snap shot feats. Actually both of them, Sau and Cat both have the same reach (15 ft) - if Cat was just able to trip or something things might get crazy:(
At least there's some synergy with the overrun feats, but yea, I'm not really sure wether its worth ist...
Actualy I have no idea - I will play him when my DM starts a campaign where a huge mount is actually not too useless. But the build should be viable starting at level 1, the first 4 levels are exactly those of a regular archer fighter who starts riding a horse at level 5 and getting some nice abilities, just being slightly behind of the archer fighter damage wise.
Oh, the HD are wrong. its 10d10 + 10d12, thanks NeoSeraph.
That gives him 10 more hitpoints - yay!:)
Actualy I have no idea - I will play him when my DM starts a campaign where a huge mount is actually not too useless.
Kingmaker... this build screams Kingmaker.
Look at Samurai (yabusame archetype) from Way of the Samurai for a mounted archer specialist samurai.
dotting
I forgot to include +2 will save granted by order of the sword, so the will save is actually 20 - thats pretty neat though.
Look at Samurai (yabusame archetype) from Way of the Samurai for a mounted archer specialist samurai.Wow pity that's third party, double dex to accuracy access to weapon focus and specialization tree, dex to damage and double challenge multiplied by the number of iterative attacks would make for one amazing one hit build.
Doesn't the core samurai allow weapon spec, too?
I thought it gave a level 4 ability to count samurai levels as fighter levels for weapon feats.
How exactly would you get an Animal Companion from this combination?Samurai, then the feat that make the cavalier mount scale with character level
That requires Expert Trainer - a cavalier ability that gets switched out for the Mounted Archer samurai ability.
No, instead of expert trainer, a Samurai gets weapon expertise, making his classlevel count as ftr-lvl
Look at Samurai (yabusame archetype) from Way of the Samurai for a mounted archer specialist samurai.Wow pity that's third party, double dex to accuracy access to weapon focus and specialization tree, dex to damage and double challenge multiplied by the number of iterative attacks would make for one amazing one hit build.
That's what third party is for - creating cool builds that aren't overpowered for those tables where 3PP isn't banned. It's not for everyone. Historically samurai were archers first, with katana being a secondary weapon to bow. Only after 1600, during the Tokugawa Era where the time of war was over for 250 years, did the katana rise in prominence to the samurai. Before that time the bow was the premier weapon. Samurai were known for great distance and accuracy, rather than raining with mulitple shots. The yabusame build reflects that.
Note: I may be a 3PP, but I am also a freelancer for Paizo. I did gazetteer work and the hand-drawn design of the City of Kasai for Jade Regent #6. If Paizo can trust me to design official material, I don't see why 3PPs are not given more consideration at more tables. For PFS games, I can understand, but for non-PFS games, 3PP should be welcome.
New version of Sau Stark, he didnt like Cat Astrophy anymore, so he went with his new friend the huge Arsinoitherium "Arsi Doublehorn" (Sorry - but kinda hard to find a cool name there). The new Companion has a similar DPR as the pouncing cat, a better one than the not-pouncing cat (the damage on a charge is lower than a vital strike, though:/) and it has trample<3
This includes some fixes and traits.
By the way - I'm really looking for improvements. I'm sure there is some stuff that might be better, so please let me know if you find something!
Sau Stark
CG Human (+2 dex)Fighter 4, Samurai 6, Mamoth Rider 10
Immune: dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered, stunned
25 pointbuy:
Str: 16 + 6 (enhancement) + 4 (inherent) = 26 (+8)
Dex: 17 + 2 (human) + 5 (level) + 6 (enhancement) + 4 (inherent) = 34 (+12)
Kon: 12 + 6 (enhancement) = 18 (+4)
Int: 12 (+1)
Wis: 12 + 6 (enhancement) = 18 (+4)
Cha: 7 (-2)
Hit Dice: 20d10 + 86
Hit Points: 196
AC: 10 +12 (armor) +9 (dex) +4 (deflection) +4 (natural armor) + 1 (insight) = 40 [Touch 24, Flat-footed 31]
Ini: +12
Speed: 20ft
Saves
Fort: 14 (base) + 2 (con) + 5 (cloak) +1 (stone)= 24
Ref: 6 (base) + 12 (dex) + 5 (cloak) +1 (stone)= 24
Will: 6 (base) + 4 (wis) + 5 (cloak) + 2 (Iron Will) +1 (stone) +2 (Order) +1 (trait)= 21
CMD: 10 + 12 (GAB) + 17 (str) + 6 (dex) + 2 (size) + 4 (deflection) = 51
reach 15ft
Ranged attack, frost composite longbow +5:
Atk: +20 (BAB) +12 (dex) +2 (Bracers of Archery) +5 (enhancement) +3 (weapon training) +1 (weapon focus) = +42 [+1 vs large/huge, +2 vs garg./coloss., +1 within 30ft] (2 less if Cat is charging)
Dmg: 1d8 +1d6 (frost) +5 (enhancement) + 1 (Bracers of Archery) +3 (weapon training) + 8 (str) + 2 (weapon spec.) = 1d8 +1d6 +19 [+1 vs large/huge, +2 vs garg./coloss., +1 within 30ft]
attack: +42/+37/+32/+27 (1d8 +1d6 +19/x3)
rapid shot: +40/+40/+35/+30/+25 (1d8 +1d6 +19/x3)
Deadly aim: +36/+31/+26/+21 (1d8 +1d6 +31/x3)
Deadly aim, rapidshot: +34/+34/+29/+24/+19 (1d8 +1d6 +31/x3)
Deadly aim, rapidshot, challenge: +37/+37/+32/+27/+22 (1d8 +1d6 +43/x3)
Deadly aim, rapidshot, challenge, hast: +38/+38/+38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8 +1d6 +43/x3)
Feats:
Precise Shot
Point Blank Shot (human bonus)
Rapid Shot (fighter bonus)
Weapon Focus [Longbow]
Deadly Aim (fighter bonus)
Boon Companion
Manyshot
Point Blank Master
Snap Shot (samurai bonus)
Mounted Archer
Improved precise Shot
Iron Will (mammoth rider bonus)
Combat Reflexes
Greater Snap Shot
Clustered Shots?
Traits:
+1 Willsave
-1ACP/+1 max dex
Class and Racial abilities:
Weapon Guard (+5 DMD vs sunder/disarm, Gloves of Dueling)
Weapontraining (+3 atk/dmg, Gloves of Dueling)
Challenge 3/day (+4 atk, +12 dmg)
Mount
Order of the Sword
Resolve 3/day (roll twice for Fort/Will save)
Weapon Expertise (Longbow)
Banner
Gigantic Steed (huge size)
Steed
Wild Coercion
Born Survivor
Colossus Hunter +1
rapid straddle
rugged steed +1
Mistrust of Magic (+2 saves gegen Spells)
undaunted
Valiant Devotion
Hunter's Instinct (Quarry)
Mammoth Lord (immunities to conditions, "evasion" for fort/will-based effects, when rider + mount attack one target in the same round it has to save vs 34 (fort) or is stunned for 1 round
Equipment
Champion's Banner
Vambraces of the Tactician
cracked pale green ioun stone
Belt of physical perfection +6
headband of wis +6
tome (+4 str)
tome (+4 dex)
cloak of resistance
amulet of natural armor +4
ring of protection +4
celestial fullplate
greater bracers of archery
gloves of dueling
+5 frost composite longbow
ioun stone (+1 AC)
boots of speed
different arrows
Arsi Doublehorn
Animal Companion
Huge Arsinoitherium
Str: 14 (base) + 8 (7th lvl advancement) + 2 (lvl) + 6 (AC progression) + 10 (size, Mammoth Rider) + 6 (enhancement) = 46 (+18)
Dex: 12 (base) - 2 (7th level advancement) +6 (AC progression) = 16 (+3)
Con: 15 (base) + 4 (7th level advancement) + 1 (lvl) + 6 (Mammoth Rider) = 26 (+8)
Int: 2 (base) +1 (lvl) = 3
Wis: 13 (base) + 6 (enhancement) = 19 (+4)
Hit Dice: 16d8 + 128
Hit Points: 200
AC: 10 +9 (armor) +3 (dex) +4 (deflection) +21 (natural armor) +4 (Natural Armor Enhancement) -2 (size) + 1 (insight) = 50 [Touch 16, Flat-footed 47]
Ini: +3
Speed: 30ft
Saves
Fort: 10 (base) + 7 (con) + 5 (cloak) = 22
Ref: 10 (base) + 6 (dex) + 5 (cloak) = 21
Will: 5 (base) + 4 (wis) + 5 (cloak) = 14 +4 vs compulsion/charm effects
CMB : 12 (GAB) + 18 (Str) + 2 (size) + 1 (ioun stone) + 5 (enhancment) = +37 [+41 for Overrun]
CMD: 10 + 12 (GAB) + 18 (str) + 3 (dex) + 2 (size) + 4 (deflection) = 49
reach 15ft
AB: 12 (GAB) + 18 (str) + 5 (enhancement) + 1 (ioun stone) -2 (size) = +36 [always Power Attack]
DMG: 6d6 + 27 (str) + 5 (enhancement) + 12 (Power Attack) = 6d6 + 46
Improved Vital Strike:
+36 (18d6 + 46/x2)
Powerful Charge:
+38 (8d6 + 46/x2), 1d4 rounds staggered (fort-DC 36)
Trample:
6d6 + 27 (ref-save DC 36 halves damage) + 1d4 rounds staggered (only first target, fort-DC 36)
SQ:
Trample
Powerful Charge
Valiant Devotion (+4 vs compulsion/charm effects)
Steed's Reach (15ft)
Pulverizing Assault (first charge/round staggers 1d4 rounds, Fort-save DC: 36)
Feats:
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Improved Natural Attack (Gore)
Furious Focus
Vital Strike
Improved Vital Strike
Improved Overrun
Greater Overrun
Equipment:
Headband wis +6
Belt str +6
Cloak of Resistance +5
Permanent Greater Magic Fangs +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +4
Ring of Protection +4
Mithral barding chainshirt +5
AC ioun stone
+1 AB ioun stone
Boots of Speed
Bla, the boards are messing up - thats why!
Fixed the int bonus.
Cat Astrophy? Catch it if you can!
You have 2 wrist slot items on him (vambraces and bracers).
I might have to borrow this build sometime...
Also why not use the Fighter(Archer) archetype?
If you change the build a little bit you can get the Archer's Level 9 ability to no longer provoke AoOs when shooting a bow. I actually have a player who is doing this though she doesn't want Mammoth Rider but qualifies for it.
Because I have point blank master anyway. And because you cant apply the gloves if you use the archer archtype. Weapon Master is just the better archer - especially for this build, but for any other archer build as well (based on fighter). The stuff from Samurai is - in addition to that - just so amazing, challenge 3/day rocks so badly:3
@Bertious: Thanks - he cant use Vambraces of the Tactician anyway because he has no levels as cavalier:D
Why can't you use the gloves?
And how is the Weapon Master the better archer. Now for this build you are right but not for all builds.
How about cavalier 4/ druid 5/Mammoth rider 1 and then continue with druid.
If you take the horse master and boon companion feats You'll have a huge mount equal to your character level and an AC equal to your character level -1.
So while your Mount and your AC rip everything apart you can decide between casting spells, firing ranged weapons, attacking in melee or just cackling as if you were a witch, because your beasts do fine without you.
Any other class that gets a full AC, like the falconer Ranger, works as well as the druid. Sylvan sorcerer or cleric/inquisitor with the right domains get an AC, too but not a full one.
If you go the ranged route see if you can get a mount and AC with scent and use pheromone arrows on tough enemies.
If AC's wouldnt generally suck if you dont invest HUGE amounts of money in them this would actually be pretty neat. But sadly they do suck. +10/6 str/kon and lots of buffs from Mammoth Rider make them actually useful at higher levels, thats why I picked this combination. The archer is still almost as good as a full fighter archer and outdamages 2 animal companions alone, so going with druid just wouldnt be worth it.
I am waiting for a Grippli Boon to come into existence, then I plan on making a Zen Archer (4) Druid (everything else), with Boon Companion at level 5 to undo the negative character levels to my Animal Companion.
SO, I agree.