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You've diligently maxed out your Use Magic Device skill. You have it as a class skill, so you're one of the best at it. Maybe Charisma is one of your primary stats. You've got a big score.
Now what do you use with it? What wands do you have on hand? What other items do you use often?
This thread will hopefully be a nice compilation for people to come back to when they want to get ideas for how to use it.
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Wands of Cure Spells
I've used it for attack wands for a Master Summoner (and his eidolon), for Silent Image wands for a host of support characters and for the ubiquitous cure wands that always seem necessary.
Really, the only classes I ever use the skill with are Rogues, Bards and Summoners, but I pretty much always take it with them.
Scrolls and wands for spells I want but cannot cast.
In the past I have primarily used it for Magic Weapon scrolls (when my friends were preparing for the possibility of being attacked by a ghost) and I was given a Wand of Prestidigitation as a gift.
I was kinda hoping for example spells :)
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I was kinda hoping for example spells :)
I posted a build here that did exactly what you are asking very effectively. The scrolls I used are listed.
The abiltiy to no-fail UMD Disjunction rocks.
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The wands I started with (as a level 4 with the wealth of nobility) were Obscuring Mist, Silent Image and Cure Light Wounds.
Since then I've acquired (from dead enemy casters) wands of Magic Circle vs. Evil, Fireball and Lightning Bolt.
The one I rarely use is Obscuring Mist, as we've rarely had to escape, and I have Deeper Darkness as an SLA at will.
CLW is obviously a staple. I'm near the end of the charges, and it's served me well for 5 levels now.
Silent Image has proven invaluable many times to create illusory objects or terrain for the group to hide within. I've also used it as a "projector" to go over complicated plans or accurately show the party the people or things I saw when scouting.
The MC vs Evil has seen alot of recent use, since we're facing a substantial amount of evil spellcasters and priestesses.
Fireball and Lightning Bolt are very useful when faced with combat situations where sneak attack isn't an option, and there are multiple foes.
The group cleric JUST took Scribe Scroll as a feat, and I've written up a scroll list request for her; I anticipate some level 1-2 scrolls coming my way after this latest mission is complete.
Cure Light Wounds, Mage Armor, Magic Missile get used as wands
Then, a lot of scrolls are worth having 1-2 of...
Entangle
Pass without Trace
Bless Weapon
Align Weapon
Ant Haul
Endure Elements
Bless
Detect Secret Doors
Knock
Water Breathing
You've diligently maxed out your Use Magic Device skill. You have it as a class skill, so you're one of the best at it. Maybe Charisma is one of your primary stats. You've got a big score.
Now what do you use with it? What wands do you have on hand? What other items do you use often?
This thread will hopefully be a nice compilation for people to come back to when they want to get ideas for how to use it.
This kind of differs from the thread title. If I were to answer the thread title it would be, "to be any class of spell caster I want, from round to round with no levels of spellcasting classes." That said, wands of cure (L,M,S) offensive and defensive scrolls deciphered in advance, Staffs eventually for the BIG effects! Hope that helped.
I was kinda hoping for example spells :)
My examples for Tatya are pretty limited since the normal go-to spells (Cure, etc.) are already on the Witch list, and the non-Witch spells she's had to UMD have been pretty rare. Prestidigitation probably sees the most use.
I'll be starting a Sorc with Dangerously Curious in a Council of Thieves game this December though who will probably try to snag a CXW wand for healing necessities, and maybe the occasional other divine spell as she finds/needs them.
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I think the problem with your question is that if you're using UMD on the wand (or scroll), it means it's a spell you can't cast. That means you didn't make it, which means unless your GM lets you place custom orders for wands (or scrolls), you're totally reliant on the stuff that the GM drops for you.
So, unfortunately, the answer is:
With my Bard, I UMD everything that drops that I can't use otherwise.
I think the problem with your question is that if you're using UMD on the wand (or scroll), it means it's a spell you can't cast.
True, but at the same time, this is meant as a sort of repository for ways to use UMD. Ideally, there'll be some creative ideas in here for other players to mine from... such as my Silent Image one.
This is distinctive from a milk-spells-to-make-cheese thread in 2 ways:
1 - The users are NOT necessarily spellcasters, and can be mixing minor spells with non-caster class abilities to create interesting results.
2 - The spells used are of low caster level and low casting stat, so there are interesting restrictions to play within.
I think the problem with your question is that if you're using UMD on the wand (or scroll), it means it's a spell you can't cast. That means you didn't make it, which means unless your GM lets you place custom orders for wands (or scrolls), you're totally reliant on the stuff that the GM drops for you.
So, unfortunately, the answer is:
With my Bard, I UMD everything that drops that I can't use otherwise.
It's true. I guess I was assuming that the world you were playing in had a system whereby people could trade something of value for other items of value that more closely suit the UMD-user's whims and desires.
spells/wands:
goodberry - for shoring up clw/infernal healing wand heals when people only need 1 or 2 hp
magic missile - when nothing else works
protection from evil - to constantly give saves to mind controlled allies
armor - because its better from a wand than having to keep a spell of it
touch of the sea - when people fall in water or need to not drown
floating disc - for small characters to stand on when terrain gets deadly
keep watch - so the perception monkey can stay up all night but still get rest
serren's swift girding - when you get ambushed at night gets that paladin in his full plate with a standard action
speak with animals - sometimes you may need to speak with one
detect secret doors - useful if you have no perception or bad rolls in an area you know should have one
the spells from the following staff are all useful in varying degrees
staff of journeys has:
detect snares and pits
endure elements
longstrider
pass without trace
freedom of movement
having the staff in hand when youre grappled means not having to worry about it, just activate freedom of movement and leave. also longstrider is +10 movement for hours at a time
and 2nd level: silence - because some enemies really need to shut up :)
The fact that two of those spells are from the new Knights of the Inner Sea tickles me for some reason.
i just did this within the past week. i have 2 pfs sorcerers who are both very good at umd, so i went through the list of everyone's 1st level spells (from the prd)to find what would make good wands/scrolls to carry around and wouldn't be expensive.
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My PFS Ranger has Dangerously Curious, and 1 rank in UMD (he's only level 2).
I'm planning on using UMD with scrolls of Shield, in conjunction with a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone. That way I get +4 AC at the start (or perhaps before) an encounter.
Also planning on having a laundry list of 1st and 2nd level utility spells. Since I don't have the gp to get those yet, I haven't made my list.
to, if given time, boost my oracles defences to da max.
My PFS Ranger has Dangerously Curious, and 1 rank in UMD (he's only level 2).
I'm planning on using UMD with scrolls of Shield, in conjunction with a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone. That way I get +4 AC at the start (or perhaps before) an encounter.
may save you money in the long run, look into getting a staff of minor arcana. it is easier to activate than a scroll and can be recharged by friendly spellcasters.
My rogue is waiting until about 5th level before bothering with UMD; when he gets enough gear together he can just dump a whole bunch of points into the skill on the basis that it's pretty useless at low level: you need at least +10 for it to be remotely reliable even if you do have anything to use it on. Then it'll be a wand of acid splash for no-SR ranged touch sneak attacks.
My PFS Zen Archer uses her +18 (soon to be +22 next level) UMD mainly for Mage Armor and Gravity Bow--Shield too if we have time, and Prot Evil for mind-affecting. She'd probably also use it for CLW, but there's usually someone better to spend the action or who can auto-succeed (since she still fails on a 1). However, in a recent scenario, we needed the whole party to activate CLW wands on some silver ingots while being wrecked by a powerful enemy. Fortunately, every single person in the party was able to do so (cleric, life oracle, witch, me, UMDing Rogue, UMDing Magus) and we prevailed with no deaths.
If you're a ranged character (say, an archer bard), a wand of gravity bow is pretty strong. It's only 1 minute cast from a wand, but still, doing 2d6 damage with each arrow instead of 1d8 for the next 10 rounds is defiantly worth a round of buffing, especially if you're firing multiple arrows a round.
2d6 is only 2.5 average damage more than 1d8.
Let's take a typical BAB +6 archer (typical meaning they'll have Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot with a +1 Composite Longbow, +4 Strength, and probably +2 damage from other sources like buffs/bardic music/weapon spec/favored enemy/whatever). They'll have 3 attacks with the first delivering two arrows, each dealing 1d8+8. A full round of attacks would deal an average of 50 damage.
In order for Gravity Bow to be worth using a round to cast, you'll need to hit with more than 20 arrows over the course of the fight, meaning it has to last at least 5 rounds. Considering there's a thread floating around complaining that fights only last 3 rounds, I think that's not very likely.
Obviously, if you have some warning that the fight is coming, go to town--it's always better to have Gravity Bow on than not--but it's not often going to be worth the action during a fight.
Anyway, the point of this semi-ranty math blitz is this lesson:
Our feelings tend to overvalue die size. Rolling 1d12 vs. 1d8, for example, seems like a huge bonus, and feels like one, too. But it's actually the same bonus that someone would 18 strength would get from wielding their one-hander in two hands (+2 average).
Static bonuses > variable bonuses in the vast majority of cases.
Reach Cure Mod Wands for the Sorcerer Plus and useful Druid or Cleric spell he can not Cast in scroll or Wand form.
Using staffs that have spells I can't Cast
Most of my characters other than pure full spellcasters have invested heavily in UMD. Other than perception I feel it is the most useful skill in the game, and in terms of pure power, I feel it is more powerful than perception, but not as frequently needed.
My druid archer, for example, uses UMD to cast ranger archery spells like "gravity bow".
It is also useful to emulate a higher attribute score if needed. There are a couple of wizard scrolls my druid likes and UMD allows her to cast spells her otherwise low int would not. For whatever reason druids do not get "eagle's splendor" on their spell list, and there are lots of reasons that charisma is useful so she uses UMD to cast eagle's splendor.
A "true strike" wand can come in handy too.
In fact there are lots of spells not on my druid's spell list that can be quite useful to her, and UMD gives her access to them.
If you don't have someone who can cast it, a wand of create water or purify food and drink can save your life.
Wands with spells that have a range of personal are nice, since your friendly neighborhood caster can't give them to you otherwise. For example, A scroll or wand of divine favor caster level 9 is pretty sweet, though a bit expensive.
A wand of silence in the right hands can completely shut down a caster.
Wands of vanish used by the rogue can be scary.
A wand of solid note is amusing and have lots of interesting uses.
If you can find one, a wand of Holy Sword is amazing.
Might be handy for a Magus since almost all of the versatility spells can't be in his spellbook. A few scrolls might come in useful.
Well, yes; you don't buff on round one a fight if the fight is going to take 3 rounds. There really aren't any buffs that pay off that fast. Maybe haste, but only if you're buffing multiple melee party members with it and they're all getting off full-round attacks, and even then it's not that big a deal in a 3 round fight. And haste is pretty exceptional; most other buffs take much longer then that.
Yes, exactly my point. Most buffs take longer than that to pay off, so buffs that last only a single fight are generally not worth casting at all (unless you can cast them on round -1 or something), because fights rarely last more than 3 rounds. Haste is practically the only exception, really--maybe Protection from Evil for on the spot "stop possessing my buddy" stuff.
So yes, my overall point was that I find very little value in buffs that last less than 10 minutes per level, unless you can cast them as a swift action or know when the next fight is coming more often than not.
I will say that it's a little better for most of the kinds of archers with UMD we're talking about (bards and rogues); they're probably not going to have that kind of bonuses at the level you're talking about, they're just not going to have that much strength. That's really just nitpicking, though, I don't disagree with your general point.
I was careful and said BAB +6, not level 6. Surely by level 8, Bards and Rogues would have a Strength item. Actually, I don't really understand why they couldn't have stats comparable to an archer fighter anyway. I mean, an Archer Bard only really needs 16 Charisma at the end of the game--they can (and generally probably do) just choose buffs and spells that don't rely on saves. And an archer Rogue is probably a really bad idea, but still, there's no reason they couldn't have Dex>Str>everything else (and yeah, if they're an archer, they probably should).
As for the real topic here, I'd say everyone wants, obviously, wands of Cure Light Wounds and Lesser Restoration.
After that, any party probably wants Protection from Evil to stop mind control and Endure Elements for mundane weather. Remove Fear lasts 10 minutes, so it's good in preparation for fights with things you know are scary (Dragons, for example). Anyone that doesn't wear armor wants a wand of Mage Armor.
Eventually, people will want Permanency scrolls for a variety of effects (assuming the party lacks a Wizard).
Less important, but still nice to have wands:
Ant Haul (if your GM cares about encumbrance)
Shield Other (for a more "tanky" UMD user)
Unseen Servant (too many uses to list)
Keep Watch (The best "cast this every night" camping spell around for when gold is no longer an issue--as it's 15gp per person per night. Of course, it'd be better if you have a wizard that can spare a slot every day and is high enough level to hit the whole party with it)
Crafter's Fortune (if you care about Crafting at all)
Mount (too many uses to list)
False Life (a big expensive, but every tHP counts)
Carry Companion (for obvious reasons)
Knock (expensive luxury, but it saves valuable skill ranks for harder locks)
If you're a ranged character (say, an archer bard), a wand of gravity bow is pretty strong. It's only 1 minute cast from a wand, but still, doing 2d6 damage with each arrow instead of 1d8 for the next 10 rounds is defiantly worth a round of buffing, especially if you're firing multiple arrows a round.2d6 is only 2.5 average damage more than 1d8.
Let's take a typical BAB +6 archer (typical meaning they'll have Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot with a +1 Composite Longbow, +4 Strength, and probably +2 damage from other sources like buffs/bardic music/weapon spec/favored enemy/whatever). They'll have 3 attacks with the first delivering two arrows, each dealing 1d8+8. A full round of attacks would deal an average of 50 damage.
In order for Gravity Bow to be worth using a round to cast, you'll need to hit with more than 20 arrows over the course of the fight, meaning it has to last at least 5 rounds. Considering there's a thread floating around complaining that fights only last 3 rounds, I think that's not very likely.
Obviously, if you have some warning that the fight is coming, go to town--it's always better to have Gravity Bow on than not--but it's not often going to be worth the action during a fight.
Anyway, the point of this semi-ranty math blitz is this lesson:
Our feelings tend to overvalue die size. Rolling 1d12 vs. 1d8, for example, seems like a huge bonus, and feels like one, too. But it's actually the same bonus that someone would 18 strength would get from wielding their one-hander in two hands (+2 average).
Static bonuses > variable bonuses in the vast majority of cases.
This is assuming no DR. If you're fighting a DR 10/- monster, now you're doing 2.6 damage per shot (or 10 per round.) With Gravity Bow you double that to 5 per shot (20 per round.) So the pay-off time for the buff is only a single round.
So, anymore uses of UMD?
This is assuming no DR. If you're fighting a DR 10/- monster, now you're doing 2.6 damage per shot (or 10 per round.) With Gravity Bow you double that to 5 per shot (20 per round.) So the pay-off time for the buff is only a single round.
Every serious archer (the sort that would bother buying a wand of Gravity Bow) will have Clustered Shots by the time DR like that comes into play.
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So, anymore uses of UMD?
I have gotten some good use out of a wand of faerie fire along with a couple scrolls of see invisibility. Defeats invisibility, blur, displacement, makes it almost impossible to hide, long range, no save, all around good times. Only defeated by SR, bit that is what a scroll of glitter dust is for.
Fly (I NEVER memorize this, but it is in my familiar. Yay hexes!), Invisibility, Identify, Haste (Thank you Summoners!!), and Cure Light Wounds. on a Witch.
I NEVER buy wands of spells that have saves or need to defeat SR.
Basically those spells that would be wonderful to have memorized but I am not guaranteed to need/want to cast. It also lets me hand off some of the traditional buffing caster role to others.
My perspective may be skewed however; I generally only play witches and charisma based casters.
I'd say a full-armored man with a sword heavier than you, who tosses at you a shower of Enervations, can make you scared a fair bit.
i use umd on my character for 3 things mainly
cure spells, healing
mount spell, trap springing
detect magic for trap finding
those are my general purpose wands, but on my hevens oricle i use a wand of colorspray to save my slots for more important utility spells like bless, doom, bane, summon monster ect..
Wands of Color Spray won't actually be affected by Awesome Display revelation since things that affect spells only affect actual spells, not things from items :)
So far I've bought a wand of faerie fire. Haven't had a use for it yet, but since we're on an ocean campaign, the ability to light people up at long range may be useful.
Wands of Color Spray won't actually be affected by Awesome Display revelation since things that affect spells only affect actual spells, not things from items :)
is this an FAQ imnot aware of? because it doesnt say spells you cast, its says "Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells" meaning it doesnt need to be cast from me, only that i control the source.
is this an FAQ imnot aware of? because it doesnt say spells you cast, its says "Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells" meaning it doesnt need to be cast from me, only that i control the source.
I don't know why you're deciding "your illusion (pattern) spells" would suggest anything other than "your spells." Why does controlling the source of the spell matter? It's not your spell, it's the wand's spell.
i can use that same logic on your reply, how do you come to the conclusion that the wand is the owner of the spell?
here is how i see casting from a wand: "...so casting a spell from a wand is..." im casting the spell from the wand, i dont see how it can be the wands spell then.
if anyone could post a link to the FAQ i would appreciate it.
Since AD doesn't say it works on magic items that emulate or act like spells, it falls foul to this. I don't consider the defence that AD doesn't say 'spells you cast" to be a strong one, and I believe it's going against the intent of the ability and the FAQ. Note that Augment Summoning is specifically mentioned as a thing that doesn't work on items, and it doesn't say "spells you cast" either.
I also love the mental image of a wand of prestidigitation. I'm happy that there are a number of items in UE that let you have taht spell at-will though, as it's an awesome spell, full of fun uses.
I think the goodberry wand is a clever idea, but since it's going to cost the same as the wand of curelight wounds, you're better off just buying the wand of CLW again and just using it up for those 1-2 point hp losses. Or just tell the warrior to suck it up, and hope he doesn't die by 1-2 damage :D
If gravity bow works on ballista, I might pick up a wand with that. Even if the rules say it doesn't, that might just be awesome enough that my GM would allow it.
Since AD doesn't say it works on magic items that emulate or act like spells, it falls foul to this. I don't consider the defence that AD doesn't say 'spells you cast" to be a strong one, and I believe it's going against the intent of the ability and the FAQ. Note that Augment Summoning is specifically mentioned as a thing that doesn't work on items, and it doesn't say "spells you cast" either.
I also love the mental image of a wand of prestidigitation. I'm happy that there are a number of items in UE that let you have taht spell at-will though, as it's an awesome spell, full of fun uses.
thank you for that link cheapy, it does not work as i thought it did.