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"Identify the properties of a magic item using detect magic: 15 + item's caster level"
Let's say I am trying to identify a holy avenger, my check result is 21, enough to identify a +2 cold iron longsword, but not enough to identify a holy avenger (a check of 33 is required), what I get to know about the weapon?
If I am identifying something, I can get partial results, like identifying only some of the powers of a staff?
RAW I thinks the response is that identifying a magic item is a all or nothing affair, but having rules for partial or erroneous identifications would be interesting.
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I can't read 400+ posts in any sort of small time so I skipped most of it, I apologize if this has been suggested.
Another thread appeared about applying restriction to reduce the cost of crafting an item. The concern of the GM was that the player could arbitrarily apply restrictions until the item became near free to create.
My solution to this conundrum is simple,
The restriction has to make sense in order to be applied.
Thus you can't restrict it to your absolute alignment for a simple +1 flaming sword, because nothing about that enchantment has anything to do with alignment.
Figured using that clarification would be good in the rules, as it solves the problem without making a million adjustments or removeing an interesting and useful aspect of crafting.
Though you may consider special tools that can impart restrictions when they may not be normally applied, such as forging a sword in a special Good-aligned forge to make it restricted to creatures with a good alignment. Interesting uses for it exist and yet it actually becomes more expensive to create rather then cheaper so it also discourages abuse and gives RP possibilities.
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Either the GM puts in more work, or the crafter ends up with 0 value for taking the feat and is better off taking Weapon Focus or anything else.Example:
Wiz8 crafter is expected to have 33kin gear from WBL table. He has 23k gear plus 20k worth of scrolls he crafted (10k materials invested in the Cost equals 20k worth in Price). If you count them at their Price, his gear appears to be 43k... way over! So the GM reduces wizard-appropriate treasure for the next few sessions. Eventually his WBL (counted at full Price) matches the 33k. Wizard crafts again, makes another 1k worth of scrolls; now he's over again (when you count them as their price), and the GM is going to have to reduce wizard treasure to compensate. Any advantage the character gets by crafting is offset by the GM reducing his treasure. Every time this wizard uses his crafting feat, the GM punishes him by reducing his treasure compared to the other PCs. Does that make any sense? Do you punish the fighter's treasure because he's using Weapon Focus? Do you punish the cleric's treasure because she's using Extra Channel?Yes, crafting means you get to exceed the normal WBL. That's because taking a crafting feat means you're not taking some other feat and not getting the benefit of that feat. Instead of Brew Potion, the wizard could take Spell Focus and be more dangerous in combat. Instead of taking Craft Wondrous Item, he could take Combat Casting and be less likely to get disrupted in combat. Every feat has an advantage; some are combat advantages, some are versatility advantages. The crafting feats add to your versatility and long-term survival at the cost of not granting you whatever bonus you could have gotten by taking any other feat.
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Yes, if you want to spend several feats on crafting and give up other useful feats that'll keep you alive or make you more effective in combat, with the limitation that it relies on a certain amount of downtime while adventuring, yes, in theory you could end up with nearly double the normal WBL. But also keep in mind that treasure isn't just sacks of gold, and sometimes your share of the treasure is a +1 amulet of natural armor... but you already crafted one... so you're selling it at half price and therefore only netting half its value toward your WBL, so sometimes it's a wash.
So a PC created at higher levels with a few crafting feats can have about twice as many magic items as a non crafter?
There should be a FAQ too in one of the Paizo Blog but searching them is more difficult.
- Gauss
My2Cents:
How exactly are the spells Lead Blades or Effortless Armor becoming permanent? They are not an eligible target for the spell Permanency.
- Gauss
I would like to see some rules for the following
Volume discount, If I make 5 Long Swords +1 should is be easier cheaper?
The King orders a 1000 Long Swords +1. Must be a way of making an assembly line...
Does it help if I use monster parts, special gems, materials in crafting (Cheaper, lower DC)?
Putting
Hmm if I put the Charming Eye of the beholder on top of the Wand of Charm...
Increasing the DC of an Item.
Wand of Charm person DC 11 vs Wand of Charm Person DC 15
Effects of using and finding special places to craft the Item
For this ring was forges in the fires of mount doom....
I have an extensive Library and/or Laboratory on Magic, Crafting etc. Does it help me in any way?
Someone written a Manual of how to craft an Item...
Magic Swords for Dummies. This sage spend his life on researching the crafting of a staff of ultimate destruction, he never made one, but you found his work and all you need is follow the instructions; aka like building an ikea
What does price and DC do for items that also have a disadvantage.
Aka A belt of +2 Con, but -2 Dex...
Craft magic ITem Sets
Left Ring of Jumping , Right Ring of leaping, if both worn bonus goes up....
Items that grow with character power.
This sword is +1 but when you single handedly defeat a Large Water Elemental it becomes a Sword +1 of Frost, then when you are able to attack twice in a round the blade allowd you an additional attack (Frost Sword +1 of Speed).
etx... kinda like the old legendaru stuff
Circumstante Items
The cloak of the werewolf only functions while the moon is full...
Sean's already mentioned a few times that those really shouldn't be a discount for players, and that they'd be priced normally for them. It would be a great thing to add to this.
Then why even include the rule in the book? Seems sloppy to be against your own rules.
Sean's already mentioned a few times that those really shouldn't be a discount for players, and that they'd be priced normally for them. It would be a great thing to add to this.Then why even include the rule in the book? Seems sloppy to be against your own rules.
Probably more reasons, but I didn't write that section so I can only guess.
A few posts above you'll see why you shouldn't be using those.
Ahhh, so when you asked about permanent enchantments you were actually asking about Custom Magic Items using continuous or use based pricing. Gotcha.
Custom Magic Item pricing is more art than science and as such you will not really get a solid answer on how to price those things.
- Gauss
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I'd like to see a clarification on whether or not you can put armor bonuses (enhancement or even special abilities) on a piece of clothing, ala the Robe of the Archmagi.
MA
I do not see that there is a difference.
Take the Continuous effect Energy Resistance. It is 2*3*2000*1.5 = 18,000gp. Exactly what it costs when added to armor.
Improved Energy Resistance is 2*7*2000*1.5 = 42,000. Exactly what it costs when added to armor.
Finally, Greater Energy Resistance is 2*11*2000*1.5 = 66,000 which is again exactly what it costs when added to armor.
Note: x1.5 is the modifier for a 10minute/level continuous spell effect.
Admitedly, there are not many continuous spell effects on weapons or armor to compare with but there is your example.
- Gauss
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@ my2cents for intelligent items, are you looking at the section on making intelligent items in the book, or online somewhere? My CRB doesn't say anything about what kind of items in the intelligent item section.
For using custom magic item rules there is no bonus set for it, you simply add the total cost. The chart with up to a plus 10 and costs is simply a cheat sheet for using the preset options.
@ master arminas Don't know about rules wise, but I have was given such clothes in a game once. I don't see any reason why you couldn't. Being that robes have such bonuses, seems to be a precedent if you ask me.
My list:
* how to make diablo-style weapon/armor gems
* clarify the alcemist and crafting
* more on slapping on extra abilities - a vampiric belt of dexterity, a champion's cloak of resistance, and so forth... again, see diablo
* more on holy/unholy relics, how and why should anyone want to craft such an items (the extra feat seem wasted as it is)
* items with unlockable abilites - like Weapons of Legacy, but without the feat tax
* item sets, combined wih unlockable abilites
* clarify what kind of items can grant skill bonuses
* more abiliets for rarely used slots
I'm asking here: Is there anything else about the magic item crafting rules that could use more explanation or examples?Sean, did you get what you needed from this thread?
Long ago, yes. Much of what's being asked is outside the scope of the book, but I mentioned above that I'll note these questions for later.
I was going to suggest how Master Craftsmen works, especially the limits of it and how it works with Wondrous Items, but it looks like that was already asked for.
The moral of the story: Search first!
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I was going to suggest how Master Craftsmen works, especially the limits of it and how it works with Wondrous Items, but it looks like that was already asked for.
The moral of the story: Search first!
Can you link that for me? My searchfu seems weak today
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Reposted from another thread as I think it is an appropriate topic for this one:
Recently my group a lost a seizable amount of loot as a BEEG Bag of holding was destroyed.
What was in the bag is lost, but one of the player asked if he was capable to identify the destroyed magic item. That and a thread about repairing a sundered sword got me thinking about identifying and repairing destroyed magic items.
Relevant pieces of the rules:
Lingering Aura: A magical aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a magic item). If detect magic is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power:
Original Strength Duration of Lingering Aura
Faint 1d6 rounds
Moderate 1d6 minutes
Strong 1d6 × 10 minutes
Overwhelming 1d6 days
It is possible to identify a magic item by its lingering aura?
Repairing a magic item requires material components equal to half the cost to create the item, and requires half the time. The make whole spell can also repair a damaged (or even a destroyed) magic items—if the caster is high enough level.
The use of Make whole don't require you to know what the item was, only to have the appropriate level.
But what are the requirement to repair a magic item without using make whole? In 3.x "re-crafting" the item was the only way to repair it. The requirements was to be capable to craft the original item. That line has disappeared in Pathfinder. So, anyone can repair it?
I would use the old 3.x rules, but maybe there is the need for an errata.
Then there is the question of knowing what the item was. It is possible to repair something if you don't what it was? I think that it is necessary to know what the item was to try to repair it. So you either have to know what it was or you have to identify it while the aura lingers.
Last thing, what is the cost if you are the guy repairing the item?
You get the same "discount" as crafting it? i.e you pay 50% to repair a broken item and the, as you are the crafter, you get a halve that, for a final cost of 25%?
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Question for the book (rhetorical for the forums):
When creating custom magic item write-ups for things which might generally appear in the RPG Superstar contests: How do you go about placing a gold value on the inclusion of a spell toward the creation cost?
...you may be using the entire spell, or just the mechanic derived from the spell's intended effect.
- Two examples:
- I want to combine the effects of two wondrous items, let's say... Gloves of Dueling and Gloves of Swimming and Climbing. How do you deconstruct each item's construction requirements, and then how do you go about building the intended item's construction requirements?
- Say I want to take an existing wondrous item, and enhance it: let's say... bag of holding, and create a communal bag of holding by adding the effect of teleport object to it. How do you go about applying value to the construction cost with the added requirement?
Can this process be translated, from an art-form, into a science?
1. I would very much like to see guidelines on scaling the expected wealth and magic item availability, allowing for easier implementation of low-magic games. As it stands, the level of magic (and associated wealth, since that's really all that cash is for) is difficult to adjust without the whole rules set getting a little wiggy. I'm not holding my breath, since I know how deeply engrained expected wealth and magic levels are in the game.
2. More behind-the-curtain explanation of why certain magic items are priced the way that they are, and why some magic items don't exist. Honestly, I'd love to see more behind-the-curtain stuff in every book. I'd like to know the intent of the designers, because I feel that it would help avoid some of the questions that come up in these forums.
Thank you!
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In an upcoming sourcebook, we're going to write additional material for the magic item crafting rules, further explaining and clarifying the nuances of how this works. I'm going to look over existing threads, FAQ entries, and FAQ-flagged threads, but I don't want anything to slip through the cracks, so I'm asking here: Is there anything else about the magic item crafting rules that could use more explanation or examples?
NOTE:
* We are not going to change the crafting rules from how they work in the Core Rulebook, so please don't ask us to. This book isn't going to invalidate the Core Rulebook.Examples of things that could use some clarification or official rulings:
* What sorts of Requirements can you bypass with the "add +5 to the DC" rule? Racial requirements? Spell requirements? Math requirements like "caster level must be 3x the enhancement bonus"? [I'd love to hear about other, obscure Requirements.]
* Does the caster level listed for an item count as a Requirement?
* If a Requirement spell has different spell levels for different classes, what spell level does it use for the pricing of an item?
* Can I increase the caster level of an existing item if it doesn't have any direct effect on its abilities (like a 1st-level pearl of power)? If so, how long does it take to do so?
* Why can't I make an constant-use ring of true strike for just 2,000 gp?
* Can I craft a new wand with fewer than 50 charges?
* Can I put holy and unholy on the same weapon?
* For armor and weapons, am I limited to just +5 in enhancement bonuses and +5 in special abilities, or can I have a +1 enhancement bonus and +9 worth of special abilities?
* Can you take 10 on the Spellcraft check to craft an item?
* Can you use a harmful spell to make an oil that you'd apply to another creature?
* Can an arcane caster use a divine scroll to fulfill an item's divine spell Requirement?
Any other questions like this?
Can you use spells like Rope Trick or Secure Shelter to provide a distraction free environment while 'on the road at night' specifically in the Jade Regent campaign where you spend 12 hours not moving.
Quote from CRB
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).
What is the bonus to Craft (Weapon) and Craft (Armor) for working in a full smithy?
EDIT: To be clear, I've got three weeks in town with nothing to do and a dwarven smith who's happy to let me work in her shop and even assist me in crafting. Seems like I should get more than a +2 bonus for her assistance...
And tacking on a second question, do special materials count towards the crafting time?
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Specific example: With a Craft (Weapon) skill of 10, you can take 10 every week to produce 400 s.p. (40 g.p.) of material, so a masterwork weapon takes 7.5 weeks to produce. But if we want a masterwork mithral weapon (say a rapier at 2 lbs), we have to add 1000 g.p. to the price and it's suddenly an extra 25 weeks!
At that rate, I can't ever see a character realistically choosing to craft a masterwork mithral weapon instead of just buying one, unless time is plentiful and items are scarce (Kingmaker, anyone?).
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So just to be absolutely, positively clear on my questions:
(1) Does a smithy grant any bonus whatsoever on crafting weapons and armor, or is it just considered a 'required set of tools'? (Which could be masterwork at the GM's discretion for a +2.)
(2) Do special materials really add their full price to crafting time? Seems like a good way to guarantee that humans never craft anything...
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Carfting feats are more usefull in old school games where months and years go by between adventures, or during character creation.
@Argento
There are 2 prices, the base price which is used as a reference for comparing and for calculating crafting time and such, then there is selling price which is how much an item can be bought or sold for.
Also keep in mind that no crafter is going to sell his wares for the cost of the materials, so armor is going to cost more then the raw materials do.
Iron is 1sp per pound but that is raw unworked iron, a smith has to spend a long time turning that iron into armor and he won't do it for free, thus full plate armor is more then cost of the iron, not to mention the consumables costs for keeping the forge lit they tools maintained, the oil, the padding underneath, the leather buckles, etc.
The item cost modifiers apply to the base price which then afterwards modified for what what you are doing with it.
Mithral full plate costs 10,650gp and weighs 25 lbs.
Despite being +500gp per lbs for other items that is trying for the crafted cost and not the raw cost.
However for simplicity raw materials to create something are always considered half the base price for magic and 1/3 base price for mundane items, so the raw materials for mithral full plate is 3550gp
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Remember also that people are falible and many people work on the game, trying to keep all these facts the same across all the books and the people writing them is going to leave the occasional hole.
In writing my game I am actually making reference tables (or using the ones in my Gygax books) just to keep them straight and I am just one person. If they don't have similar tables (which would be awesome for them to publish if they do) it is possible that whoever wrote the bestiary entry just didn't realize the base cost distinction or the inclusion of labor in such costs.
Since you use half the base cost in raw materials, the absolute max price for mithral would be 250 per lb since that's the amount you spend on raw materials. Of course if a merchent only pays half for raw materials as well then it would come out pretty close and that may have been what they were going for, since they expect players to sell rather then buy directly (they expect PC purchase of raw materials to be implicit when creating items, with no need to define what all the materials are).
Either way it's something to remember for my game. And maybe PF will consolidate and put this info on reference tables and such and publish as a GM supplement.
1. What about magic item recycling? Could the magic from one item be taken and applied to a different item for reduced time and cost?
2. Applying special materials to the magus' black blade would the blade need to be destroyed first or could it be done with normal crafting?
3. Why couldn't a spell caster pull some overtime and decrease the creation time?
4. Item creation both mundane and magical takes far too long for most APs. Any way to speed it up further? I.e a speed crafting feat.
5. And rules for applying permanency to non specified spells for more character options would be helpful as well. Or maybe just the math the devs used to price the current ones by spell level?
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Use Activated
I generally limit use activated to something either related to the functioning of the item (such as falling for and item of feather fall) or something that is done to the item (such as snapping a potion cracker)
Tools
Not sure what tools you are refering to but I would say only one set of tools can be in use at a time.
Dwarf wizards
Never heard of this so no comment till I read it.
Slots
Personally I reserve craft wondrous for anything not covered by other feats. I would indeed allow you to make most items in other with a few make sense exceptions (such as striding and springing being purely boots)
Restrictions
As for restrictions, this has been discussed in detail, I think earlier in this but I don't remember for sure it has been awhile. If I find it elsewhere I will post here.
Materials
A rather steadfast rule, nothing can be made out of non-permanent conjured material unless otherwise specifically stated by spell/ability (or if you can, it will only last till the spell/ability ends). In particular your example would produce nothing since once you use the material it no longer exists and thus you made nothing. And in general is bad practice to even try making something for "free" unless it is temporary. For game balance if nothing else, and the world would be littered with all the best stuff if people could do that, so you must consider the effects such has on the world at large.
Can I somehow magically increase the hardness/hp of magical items other than weapons and armor?
Could I, for example enchant some non armor item with a armor enchantment that increases hp/hardness? I guess no. But what can I do?
For example I want to protect my scarred witchdoctor's mask. It seems to be a magic item, it has to be made of wood (not very durable/strong) being in the headslot it is one of the first items hit if I roll a 1 on any save and it is rather exposed (could be sundered).
Now I can enchant it as if it was a wondrous item.
What can I do to make it more durable?
Adding options or clearing up those existant for situations like that would be nice.
I realize that at the very beginning Sean made it VERY clear that core crafting rules wouldn't be changed, but I have to agree with ThunderMan that core crafting takes a ridiculously long (though realistic) time, and it would be nice to see some kind of feat to speed it up.
Consider your poor 20th-level non-magical character with 20 ranks of Craft (Weapon), an INT of 20, masterwork tools, and the Master Craftsman feat. That player has done everything humanly possible to speed up crafting, and can craft masterwork items at all of 84 gold pieces per week, so a single masterwork rapier takes nearly a month, for a total work output of 320 g.p. over 28 days. And that's not using any special materials! And then it takes him or her... ONE DAY to add the +1! Apparently magic is MUCH faster than wasting your time at a forge!
During the same stretch, a 5th-level wizard with the Craft Wand feat and one rank of Spellcraft can crank out 28,000 g.p. worth of wands, give or take a few hundred.
I understand the argument that disposable items should innately be faster to make, but that factor of nearly 100 makes it virtually impossible for PCs to craft weapons and/or armor for 'character flavor' except in all but the longest-lived campaigns, so a feat speeding up weapon and armor crafting by an order of magnitude would be nice.
As for the wooden mask try the ironwood spell, can make any wood as hard and durable as metal.
That has a rather limited duration.