Sap Master isn't overpowered. It's pretty much the only thing that puts rogues into competition with Fighters. Show your GM this thread, if you want.
Since Sap Master was the crux of your build, ask if you can re-do as a ranger. You're still rogue-y. You can still Snipe well. And you can even have some fun spells that will help with sniping. Aspect of the Falcon gives 19-20/x3 with a bow (doesn't stack with Improved Critical, although oddly, a crossbow would stack, giving it 17-20/x3. Take the Guide archetype for something like sneak attack (Guide's Focus).
The point of your build was to be a sniper, and you got close to being the first person to make an effective ranged rogue :)
Back to Paladin / Cavalier.
I vote Paladin all the way. Yes, cavalier can hurt anyone, and a Luring Cavalier is pretty nice. But a Paladin gets so many awesome things. A lot of the Paladin only spells are really, really good.
Overall, I still vote Bardarcher though. Being able to buff up your party, and be a great archer is awesome. Remember, not only is the extra attack from Haste *your* hit, but so are the hits that would've missed if you hadn't buffed everyone up. That adds a ton of DPR to your build. That fighter who got an extra attack that hit, and your Inspire Courage / Haste / Good Hope combination allowed his multi-shot attack to hit? You just got 3 arrows worth of DPR to your count :)
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Well, even the person who suggests the Cavalier noted the Pally is better; but he's right, OP said it wouldn't work in flavor with campaign.
So overall I think ranger largely wins; more versatile and early access to the stupidly necessary improved precise, plus neat tricks like gravity bow, more skills, and almost as many feats. The +1/+3 from the fighter doesn't really make up for all rangers do for you.
i think that Paladin and Caviler come out on top in the 5th and below section
at 6th ranger starts getting spells and if its the favored enemy.
but EVEN THEN, i think the fighter still comes out on top as they get weapon training and specs
Regarding the tone of the campaign, I'd like to point out that the iconics, the recommended party for the AP, includes a paladin and a Lawful Evil worshipper of Asmodeus.
I think Seityl is more lawful than evil though?
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The weapon train / spec was the +1 / +3; that doesn't touch the benefit of Improved Precise, along with all the skills/free combat buddy/other tricks.
On the other hand, I think Oath of V pally is #1, from a strict "most effective combatant" (in most campaigns). I think the cavalier is a terrible setup; it doesn't bring a fraction to the table, and does not (yet) have a similar cheat to get more challenges. Cav fails at life really, sadly :(.
So really, it's Oath of V Pally, then Ranger, then Zen Monk, then Urban Barbarian (rage for +dex, yay :)), then Fighter, then casting archers, then Cavalier. IMHO
Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
47 damage per round (10d6+12's average) is quite low for level 8 martial character.
An archer fighter level 8 with just the basic feats (rapid shot, weapon spec, deadly aim, and multishot) should have 4 arrows at level 8, doing 1d8+6(deadly aim)+2(str)+1(weapon training)+2(weapon spec)+2 (weapon) = 1d8+15 points of damage. Three of those arrows will be at full BAB -2, so they'll probably hit. The 4th arrow is a crapshoot.
That's an average of 19.5*3 = 58.5 damage per round. Up to 78 per round if their 4th arrow hits.
And if they're hasted, that turns into 78 damage almost certain per round.
If just two arrows hit, it's already 39 points of damage.
He should be grateful that you're putting all your hopes into one shot. If it misses, your DPR drops to 0. If one of the fighter archer's arrows misses...well he has 3 other chances o hit.
I think your overvaluing the rangers abilities as an archer to be honest. The reason paladin is touted as the king of archery damage is because of his ability to have a static ammount of damage added to his hits equal to his level a limited number of times per day, this is also only against a specific alignment.
Ignoring the other benefits of being a paladin and focusing just specifically on the mechanic that makes it do huge damage we have the cavalier, admittedly weaker, less times per day but identical in damage added.
Rangers gets early feats with no pre reqs and favoured enemy, fighter gets its built in hit and damage additions, other classes get all the things they get but the fact is when you compare them to a paladin you say the paladin is better "at damage" yet a cavalier with an identical ability is sub par?
Colour me confused.
Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
How?
How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Spell sunder through the bow using the Archer's class feature.
Spell sunder through the bow using the Archer's class feature.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
I suppose I was wondering about the level of Oracle.
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I suppose I was wondering about the level of Oracle.Spell sunder through the bow using the Archer's class feature.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Fatigue immunity for rage cycling. Also true strike.
Fatigue immunity for rage cycling. Also true strike.I suppose I was wondering about the level of Oracle.Spell sunder through the bow using the Archer's class feature.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Clearly you need to write a guide to being a barbarian.
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Pally can take Oath of Vengence (which I specified), making this ability work 6 times per day instead of 2 @ 4th. They also have better Charisma payoffs (saving throws/spells/lay on hands-which-become-smites). It's this cheat to get to use their power so often that makes the Pally a solid archer now; and great saves fills the biggest issue with archers in general.
I value rangers so highly because 6-10, Improved Precise is so stupidly good (cover prevents most archers from realizing their full potential). At 10 on they get instant enemy, which is almost a smite (+6 to hit / damage, can even be used for skills in a pinch). They bring a lot more too (almost as many feats as a fighter, 2nd good save, tons of skill points), and when combined with their animal companion make up the difference in damage fighters get in spades (Pallies / Cav's can do this to a lesser extent, but are limited to horses and such).
Clearly you need to write a guide to being a barbarian.
It's in the works. I'm thinking I may dial back on the scope, there's a lot of ways to barbarian and 'all of them' is taking forever.
Clearly you need to write a guide to being a barbarian.It's in the works. I'm thinking I may dial back on the scope, there's a lot of ways to barbarian and 'all of them' is taking forever.
Is AM BARBARIAN making use of his Engineering degree to craft a guide, or is this just Trinam?
Is AM BARBARIAN making use of his Engineering degree to craft a guide, or is this just Trinam?Clearly you need to write a guide to being a barbarian.It's in the works. I'm thinking I may dial back on the scope, there's a lot of ways to barbarian and 'all of them' is taking forever.
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: AM BARBARIAN rants are placed throughout the guide as appropriate, but the crunch tends to get done by me. AM knows his crunch and optimization, but not everyone wants to see an allcaps guide.
I'm just finishing work and my battery is on its way out but i think i'll do a little building for the luring cavalier. Like i said no doubt the paladin is better but i think the cavalier can compete with the fighter/ranger/zen/AM builds.
Might try out bard/cav/herald for the lol. I'll post in a need thread if you want to have a pick at it thalin.
Ignoring the other benefits of being a paladin and focusing just specifically on the mechanic that makes it do huge damage we have the cavalier, admittedly weaker, less times per day but identical in damage added.
Rangers gets early feats with no pre reqs and favoured enemy, fighter gets its built in hit and damage additions, other classes get all the things they get but the fact is when you compare them to a paladin you say the paladin is better "at damage" yet a cavalier with an identical ability is sub par?
Colour me confused.
The ability to hit is included in DPR calcualtions the cavalier does not get that boost which means while he hits as hard he doesn't hit as often. which means lower damage over the whole of their attacks. The ranger and paladin do get to boost the ability to hit and now with instant enemy spell an EXPENSIVE WAND means a ranger can apply his best favored enemy bonus to whomever he wants and it is a boost to hit and damage. Coupled with more access to archery feats means more arrows in the air. The suck of the wand versus a straight casting is it is no longer a swift action to do.
I have no doubt a cavalier will do well but I am not sure its stepping away from the pack as you seem to be implying.
If I was a ranger who wanted to focus on Instant Enemy, I'd just be a Spirit Ranger and take Craft Wondrous Item. By the time you get Instant Enemy, you'll have 2 spells from the spirit per day, and can make your own Pearls of Power (3rd) level for 4,500 gp. That's cheap enough to grab 3 for only 30% of your WBL. Cheaper than adding +6 to your weapon at least.
Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
No offense, but I don't think this comes up often enough to really matter. Just saying.
How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
I am with cheapy. How are they bypassing wind wall and entropic shield? I can entropic shield possibly being passed, but wind wall is a different story.
I am with cheapy. How are they bypassing wind wall and entropic shield? I can entropic shield possibly being passed, but wind wall is a different story.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
They are sundering it with Spell Sunder and Trick Shot (Sunder).
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zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.
wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I am with cheapy. How are they bypassing wind wall and entropic shield? I can entropic shield possibly being passed, but wind wall is a different story.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Archers sunder through a bow. Wind wall is an ongoing magical effect. Spell sunder it then keep firing.
Though cheapy was curious about the oracle dip.
zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
Their damage dice for the bows would be 4d8.
If they didn't have to spend a round buffing up with using a wand of Gravity Bow, I'd agree.
zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.
Also, I'm not sure the ZA really pulls ahead. They don't get 3 attacks at +18 BAB, only two effectively. And the 3 attacks at less than or equal to +8 can basically be written off as misses. With the fighter, those would be at +13, which isn't necessarily a miss.
But I haven't really looked at the numbers other than just browsing.
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zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
Their damage dice for the bows would be 4d8.
If they didn't have to spend a round buffing up with using a wand of Gravity Bow, I'd agree.
only when they decided not to use their unarmed damage instead then it knocks up to 4d10. and i believe, assuming a home game not PFS, you can either make a constant effect ring of gravity bow (20k) or leadership and have a buffing mage with you or teammate, or be awesome and arcane archer (lol) your zen archer then quicken it.
Also, I'm not sure the ZA really pulls ahead. They don't get 3 attacks at +18 BAB, only two effectively. And the 3 attacks at less than or equal to +8 can basically be written off as misses. With the fighter, those would be at +13, which isn't necessarily a miss.
unless im mistaken a ZA flurry functions the same as normal except that it can only be done with a bow. which makes them have +18 18 (haste)18, (ki pool)18, 13,13,8,8,3 which means about 7 hits in a round (last 3 have a combined 30% chance to hit something with one of them assuming a 32 ac)
I am with cheapy. How are they bypassing wind wall and entropic shield? I can entropic shield possibly being passed, but wind wall is a different story.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Archers sunder through a bow. Wind wall is an ongoing magical effect. Spell sunder it then keep firing.
Though cheapy was curious about the oracle dip.
Back to the Oracle, what does it bring to the build?
I apologize in advance if I overlooked it.
zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.
Wait. The Sohei's Weapon Training doesn't mention that you can't use RS and MS with Flurry of Blows.
Whoa.
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I am with cheapy. How are they bypassing wind wall and entropic shield? I can entropic shield possibly being passed, but wind wall is a different story.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Archers sunder through a bow. Wind wall is an ongoing magical effect. Spell sunder it then keep firing.
Though cheapy was curious about the oracle dip.
Back to the Oracle, what does it bring to the build?
I apologize in advance if I overlooked it.
It's lame.
I am with cheapy. How are they bypassing wind wall and entropic shield? I can entropic shield possibly being passed, but wind wall is a different story.How?Fighter (Archer) (3) Urban Barbarian (6) Oracle (1) deals the most damage.
Why?
Because they can still deal damage to things through entropic shield and wind wall. This makes up for the small difference in damage per hit. :P
Archers sunder through a bow. Wind wall is an ongoing magical effect. Spell sunder it then keep firing.
Though cheapy was curious about the oracle dip.
Back to the Oracle, what does it bring to the build?
I apologize in advance if I overlooked it.
No problem, I love talking about my insane martial things.
Oracle 1 gives fatigue immunity from the lame curse for rage cycling, wind sight for 100ft extra vision range from the wind mystery, and true strike because 'Why the heck not?'
only when they decided not to use their unarmed damage instead then it knocks up to 4d10. and i believe, assuming a home game not PFS, you can either make a constant effect ring of gravity bow (20k) or leadership and have a buffing mage with you or teammate, or be awesome and arcane archer (lol) your zen archer then quicken it.zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
Their damage dice for the bows would be 4d8.
If they didn't have to spend a round buffing up with using a wand of Gravity Bow, I'd agree.
Anybody can claim custom magic items, and leadership to get a boost.
If you don't flurry then you are back to a medium BAB progression. I doubt he is going to out DPR a smiting paladin or a ranger using favored enemy if he uses the medium BAB progression.The sohie monk which I mentioned before can make a bow into a monk weapon, flurry with it, and not have the rapidshot and manyshot restriction IIRC. There is thread on this that is probably still active. I was active yesterday anyway.
zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.Wait. The Sohei's Weapon Training doesn't mention that you can't use RS and MS with Flurry of Blows.
Whoa.
I see you already looked it up. :)
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zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.
holy crap i didnt even think bout the sohei, lets seeeeee....
rapid+flurry would net +16 base and deal about...2d8+ additional modifiers(same as the zen archer +/- WF feats) at rapid+many+haste+ki pool+2@ +16 then 2@+11 thats about 8 hits in a round base damage would be (with gravity bow)16d8+composite+magic+feats. but a zen archer would have 7 attacks @ (potentially) 28D10 +composite+magic+feats... i would still have to give it to the ZA.
OOPPSSS!!! lol i totally misread the OP i thought he said level 15 lol
zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.holy crap i didnt even think bout the sohei, lets seeeeee....
rapid+flurry would net +16 base and deal about...2d8+ additional modifiers(same as the zen archer +/- WF feats) at rapid+many+haste+ki pool+2@ +16 then 2@+11 thats about 8 hits in a round base damage would be (with gravity bow)16d8+composite+magic+feats. but a zen archer would have 7 attacks @ (potentially) 28D10 +composite+magic+feats... i would still have to give it to the ZA.
How is that? What is the ZA bringing to the table that the sohei monk is not bringing?
Nah. Average damage of 4d8 is only +18. At level 20, one arrow should easily be able to do that damage and more. And the sohei would get 2 such arrows.
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zen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.holy crap i didnt even think bout the sohei, lets seeeeee....
rapid+flurry would net +16 base and deal about...2d8+ additional modifiers(same as the zen archer +/- WF feats) at rapid+many+haste+ki pool+2@ +16 then 2@+11 thats about 8 hits in a round base damage would be (with gravity bow)16d8+composite+magic+feats. but a zen archer would have 7 attacks @ (potentially) 28D10 +composite+magic+feats... i would still have to give it to the ZA.
How is that? What is the ZA bringing to the table that the sohei monk is not bringing?
sohei cannot apply his unarmed damage as bow damage. a 15th (now rereading the op he said 1-5 not 15 lol)level monk with a monks robe would have the option to hit for 2d10 base with his bow damage. then using a potion,ring,spellcaster, multi-class, would be able to turn his unarmed damage from 2d10 (medium sized) to 4d8(oops cheapy was right after rereading monk unarmed damae for large size) after having enlarge person (permanency?) cast then upping that to 6d8 with gravity bow(potion?). so my figure above was wrong its actually 6d8x7(hits)= 42d8 damage
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Um... in a word no -- he'll also have weapon training.
On the one hand we'll have:
Sohei 20
Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Haste, Ki point, Flurry of blows and Weapon Training +6 (gloves of the duelist), weapon focus:
+24(x2)/+24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9
On the other Zen Archer 20
Haste, Ki point, Flurry of blows weapon focus:
+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5
There is no way that with less attacks, less attack bonus and less bonus damage the Zen Archer is going to compare.
I believe that there is actually a considerable debate over whether gravity bow would work with a zen archer's "fists for damage" ability.
The main thing being that you use your unarmed damage. Not your unarmed damage as a ranged weapon.
I'm not sure how to better explain it, but I think most people agree that gravity bow won't actually work with Ki Strikes or whatever it is.
Enlarge Person and/or Lead Blades on the other hand...Those unambiguously work.
sohei cannot apply his unarmed damage as bow damage. a 15th (now rereading the op he said 1-5 not 15 lol)level monk with a monks robe would have the option to hit for 2d10 base with his bow damage. then using a potion,ring,spellcaster, multi-class, would be able to turn his unarmed damage from 2d10 (medium sized) to 4d8(oops cheapy was right after rereading monk unarmed damae for large size) after having enlarge person (permanency?) cast then upping that to 6d8 with gravity bow(potion?). so my figure above was wrong its actually 6d8x7(hits)= 42d8 damagezen archer hands down bab 20 while flurrying, rapid and many shot for free
2 d10with enlarge person and gravity bow nets you what 4d10 (or 610 size increases annoy me) every attack and you can have 7 attacks. i think this beats even the pally against an evil outsider. then you take the standard archery feats, stack your wis then obliterate everything that dosent have a wall defense system for countering archery based characters.wait i forgot they can bend arrows, /slaps forehead, duh!
I think the Sohei monk has him beat. How is the monk getting access to gravity bow?
Also:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.holy crap i didnt even think bout the sohei, lets seeeeee....
rapid+flurry would net +16 base and deal about...2d8+ additional modifiers(same as the zen archer +/- WF feats) at rapid+many+haste+ki pool+2@ +16 then 2@+11 thats about 8 hits in a round base damage would be (with gravity bow)16d8+composite+magic+feats. but a zen archer would have 7 attacks @ (potentially) 28D10 +composite+magic+feats... i would still have to give it to the ZA.
How is that? What is the ZA bringing to the table that the sohei monk is not bringing?
It seems everybody is ignoring 1 to 5. I did not even see it. :)
With that said I think the ranger takes it for the first 5 levels.That base damage won't help the Zen archer I believe, not after manyshot and deadly aim are applied. I am too lazy to build a level 15+ character just for kicks though.
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Um... in a word no -- he'll also have weapon training.
On the one hand we'll have:
Sohei 20
Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Haste, Ki point, Flurry of blows and Weapon Training +6 (gloves of the duelist), weapon focus:
+24(x2)/+24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9On the other Zen Archer 20
Haste, Ki point, Flurry of blows weapon focus:
+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5There is no way that with less attacks, less attack bonus and less bonus damage the Zen Archer is going to compare.
unless im mistaken you added 7 while it should have been 6 attacks at+24
It seems everybody is ignoring 1 to 5. I did not even see it. :)
With that said I...i didnt ignore it i mis read it lol.
but i would say not to the ranger with bane at 5 an inquisitor takes the cake, and spells to boot.
Those spells and banes take time to set up. The ranger has a head start, and by the time the battle is over the ranger should come out ahead.
Think you quoted while I was fixing SideKick I have six in my current post.
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Those spells and banes take time to set up. The ranger has a head start, and by the time the battle is over the ranger should come out ahead.
It seems everybody is ignoring 1 to 5. I did not even see it. :)
With that said I...i didnt ignore it i mis read it lol.
but i would say not to the ranger with bane at 5 an inquisitor takes the cake, and spells to boot.
bane is a free action and adds +2d6 damage and +2attack, not just to favored enemies.