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I suppose I can just have a custom spell for making a fog that has a suggestion effect on everyone it passes by, making them accept reasonable requests at a reasonable will save -- much like Manacles of Cooperation. Then he can just gimp it a bit to reduce everyone else's will save by, say, 10. Then put it on a ring, or whatever, with one use per day.

What level would you say this spell is? Max? I haven't actually designed the details of the BBEG yet, so there's no real limitations in that regard -- but he's supposed to be a sorcerer.

He's also going to have basically Manacles of Cooperations, but as a necklace with a rather quite intense DC, made for those poor sods.

That's one idea. Although I'm not sure how well it scales. suggestion is 1h/l, which likely means that they'll have to talk to 500 people *daily* for it to stick. Which might not be too feasible.

I had this idea for the BBEG to set out a fog at night, that lasts about 6h, which instils the idea of "everything's fine, just stay indoors" among the citizens. I.e. it should tell them to stay indoors, and "don't worry too much about it, your brother is probably just visiting someone -- why would he be missing?" So the fog makes them agreeable to somewhat reasonable suggestions and requests.

The town has roughly 500 citizens, and is quite small. But the fog would have to cover quite a bit of ground nonetheless, as most people are farmers living on the outskirts of town.

Bonus points if it can be set of by a mook using a wand, or something else that means the BBEG doesn't even have to be there to make it manifest every night.

Das Bier wrote:
What does Sword and Board mean for you? These are all different concepts = offense, defense and teamwork.

Good question! I am thinking primarily about defence and teamwork.

Does anyone have a set of sensible house rules for making sword & board more effective? If you can offer a mini-treatise on why you don't think this is necessary, that would be acceptable too. :)

Olaf the Holy wrote:
Full attack as a standard action is an incredibly bad idea, because it'll get your midline-characters (divine casters, archers, rogues) completely obliterated when they get caught out by a move+attack. Don't do that.

Yeah, I also find that a bad idea.

Olaf the Holy wrote:

Anyway. Before I throw suggestions out there, I'd like to hear about your problems with the Barbarian and Fighter specifically. What are they bad at in game, in your experience?

My experience with Fighters is that they become one-sided due to their lack of versatility. They have way too few skill points, and whilst they have a lot of feats, they can basically only choose one big feat chain that doesn't result in something truly interesting until a lot of levels in. So they are great at first (because of hp and damage), and then the "I roll to attack" on every turn shtick gets old, and then you have to wait until level 10 to be cool again, and then you realise you aren't as cool as the Wonk or Ranger anyway.

Barbarians are way more interesting than the other martial classes, but still, I'd probably rank any of the spellcasters as better classes. Some rage powers are cooler than some Rogue talents, but I feel like the latter gives room for more versatility. Maybe I'll just print out rage powers from the APG. I also feel like rage is perhaps a bit more complicated than it needs to be -- but I'm told unchained rage might be something to look at for this.

I want to stress that I don't think the game is *that* broken, like many people allude to at times. And since I am GM-ing newbies, I'm not dealing with especially optimised characters either. That's why I'm mostly interested in minor wibbles that make martial classes more fun and versatile.

Thanks for your suggestions for the other two classes! My issues with the Monk is primarily the "schizophrenia" you mention, but MAD is also frustrating at times. Low survivability is not something any table I've been at has had real issues with, when it comes to the Monk.

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Ascalaphus wrote:

Okay, let's identify which classes we're talking about, and what to do about it.

Fighters are okay at fighting. The problem with fighters is that they can't do enough outside combat. So let's do something about that:

  • 4+int skills or even 6+int skills.
  • More class skills; at least Acrobatics, Diplomacy, K(local, nobility, history), Perception and Sense Motive. That gives you a more well-rounded warrior.
  • Perhaps also a choice to gain either Will or Reflex as a second strong save.

The big problem with monks in core is a disconnect between their presentation as a high-mobility class along with needing a full attack to really function. A good solution would be to use the Unchained Monk; that'll get you up and running without anything else.

If that isn't an option, then you could grant monks the benefits of Flying Kick as soon as they get Fast Movement. That at least gets them started.

Finally, you might want to exempt them from the "end your turn" clause on Dimension Door when they use Abundant Step.

Just use the Unchained Rogue. Or at least the Finesse, Dex to damage and debilitating injury abilities. That way, a rogue doesn't pay a Finesse feat tax to have a chance at hitting and AC at the same time; and the debilitating injury gives the rogue more tactical stuff to do.

Looking at the Unchained classes, it looks like these are drop-in-replacement-friendly for the Core Rulebook. I might just print those from the d20pfsrd, and tell people to use them. :) Thanks a lot for the suggestions!

For clarification: I am only using the Core Rulebook, and don't want to burden newbie players with more resources -- the Beginner Box is overwhelming enough as is for someone new to PnP RPGs.

I am using the Beginner Box. Later I am transitioning into the Core Rulebook. I have no desire to go from the Beginner Box to having 100 books to deal with. I am however familiar with most of the central rulebooks as a player for years, and would be happy to adapt any tweaks from them if they are simple enough to use with the Core Rulebook.

So, to reiterate, I am looking for *simple* changes I can make to the Core Rulebook classes, be they a house rule or something from e.g. the APG that is easy to tack onto the Core Rulebook without too much effort/widespread consequences. I want to mitigate the shortcomings of underpowered classes, not necessarily replace them completely. If they are to be completely replaced, the solution would have to be completely drop-in-replacement-friendly in that it works with the Core Rulebook and doesn't require any further resources for the players -- just "use this instead of the Core Rulebook for this class".

Thanks for understanding, and keep the suggestions coming!

Help me identify underpowered classes, and suggest house rules to mitigate them a bit.

Note that I am using the Core Rulebook only.

In my experience as a player, Fighter and Rogue are the most underpowered, followed by Monk and Barbarian. This experience is obviously subjective and limited by which classes I have played myself, and how other people at the table have played others, so I accept that it might be wrong. Correct me if that's the case.

Good house rules are typically simple to understand, and not too extreme in their implications. One that I frequently use is to give the Fighter 4 skill ranks per level instead of 2.

Feel free to post suggestions for mitigating overpowered classes too.

Thanks for the feedback guys! Especially KarlBob!

I think I will get the Bestiary, the Bestiary pawns, and the NPC Codex pawns. And then when my economy situation improves, I'll get the NPC Codex book and the Gamemastery Guide "for me" and the APG/U* stuff "for my players".

I'll read up on Alkenstar and Numeria for inspiration for my setting, and probably homebrew it. Thanks a lot, everyone!

The Shaman wrote:

Hmm, there are very few low magic places in the setting, the one that immediately comes to mind is Alkenstar - a small city state near Nex and Geb that was in a particularly magic-poor region and thus had to develop technology, eventually becoming the world´s main producer of firearms. There is a big on-and-off regional war, and considering the region around the city is known as the Mana Wastes, you may imagine that it is rather resources poor. Overall, an adventure in or around Alkenstar seems very close to what you want.

There aren't many adventures or other books describing the region, though. According to the Paizo website, there are just Wardens of the Reborn Forge and The Twisted Circle.

The other place that you might be interested in is Numeria, which is essentially a barbarian country with an old spaceship wreck and a bunch of technophile wizards running things behind the scenes. It has more eldritch horrors, but is less resource poor and more suited to wilderness adventures - it has a few cities, but apart from the capital they aren't really prominent.

I could probably make both of those things work. If there are few resources, that means there are more holes, holes that I can fill in with my own vision. Maybe I can even check out both for inspiration, and meld them together with my own vision.

Thanks for the ideas!

CampinCarl9127 wrote:
Personally, I don't own a single book. I use the online PFSRD for all my resources, and that works perfectly fine for me as well as a lot of others.

As a player, I prefer the SRD too. But I find myself wanting books and magazines when doing world building and so on.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Core Rulebook (obviously)
Any 1 Bestiary

Highly Suggested
Gamemastery Guide
Advanced Player's Guide
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Combat
More Bestiaries

I was planning on buying Bestiary 1 with the pawn box (I think the pawn box is fun, and adds to the atmosphere, so I value that over having even more monsters to choose from.

As for APG and UM/UC -- when I started out playing PF some years ago, we all used core and had tonnes of fun without the other books -- so I'm sure I can survive without them. In fact, I think I would have been a bit overwhelmed as a new player if I had 4 books of material.

I was considering getting the Gamemastery Guide. But I don't really know what's in it, or what it's meant to cover. Could you maybe elaborate a tiny bit on why you recommend it? I am quite poor (my wallet was stolen yesterday, so I'm actually *utterly* poor. ;), so I'd rather save the money and buy the APG and Ultimate *-books later on, if you think I can get by fine without it.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

I would be very comfortable running just about any campaign with all of those resources. Of course there are a lot of extra fluff books out there that include a TON of new material, including dozens of new classes and archetypes and magic items and class abilities and spells get the idea.

But based on your post, here is my suggestion.

You own the core rulebook, so that's good. Buy a bestiary: I suggest either 1 or 2, but 3 is also a good start. The later bestiaries get a little weird, which is perfectly fine, but you don't want to throw only weird monsters at your players. From that point, make a homebrew game. You have enough specifics that you want in the campaign that I can't personally think of a written adventure path that can fulfill all of the criteria.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not really worried about figuring out some adventures or whatever. But if there are some settings I can use as a springboard, that would be lovely, so if anyone else have some ideas -- that would be excellent. I tend to want to solve every tiny detail, and I know that there are *a lot* of details to work out for the kind of setting I envision. So any help is good.

TL;DR suggest what kind of material I should buy to run my first campaign -- see the bottom bullet points for some notes

Hi! I'm going to be a GM for the first time. I am planning on running through the Beginner Box, since my players will be unfamiliar with PnP RPGs (but familiar with MMORPGs and CRPGs). I will probably also go through the supplemental adventures for the Beginner box.

Then I'm going to start a new, full campaign. I only have some vague ideas at this point, which I will list below.

My question is: what kind of material should I buy for my campaign?

Two notes:
- I would like to buy as few things as possible (obviously!), so if suggestions are made to work without e.g. without Advanced Player Guide, Ultimate *, etc., that's useful.
- Specialisation > generalisation -- to give a specific example, I would rather buy Bestiary 1 with the pawn box, than buy Bestiary 1 and 2 without pawn boxes, as it is easy enough to expand later on. Hopefully you get the idea.

I only own the core rulebook and the Beginner Box. Should I buy a setting? Some adventures? Is there a combined thing where you can get a setting and some adventures to get going, and then roll your own once you're more experienced? Etc. Any help would be much appreciated!

Lastly, here are my few assorted ideas for the campaign, so please bear them in mind when suggesting settings/modules/etc.:

-Next to no mandatory combat -- I want players to be able to solve everything non-violently.
-Fleshed out social lives of NPCs and a general preference to social adventures.
-Low fantasy -- sparse resources, few treasures, little money, underpowered (relative to regular Pathfinder) characters, etc.
-Low magic -- but high-tech would be welcome; even preferable!
-If there are some huge wars going on, that would be great.
-Preferably the core races should live somewhat isolate, with racial or political tensions, or other reasons for fighting with each other.
-Primarily urban setting.
-Science fiction/horror influences very welcome.

Rycaut wrote:

That said the more effective way for any character to "detect castie" is to have Spellcraft as a trained skill and identify spells as they are being cast (or at least that a spell is being cast).

I have spellcraft. but if there are no visible/audible effects, I can't technically use it. I was planning on using detect magic to check if there was any form of magic, and then using spellcraft to identify it.

mdt wrote:
Truesight Goggles might do what you're looking for.

185K for detect magic is a bit steep... Though obviously they give other things as well.

mdt wrote:
Or for 2,500 gp you can have detect magic permanently cast on you. The only caveat is you have to do it yourself with UMD and scrolls.

That sounds like a good idea for my character. What would the total price of the scroll be though?

Thanks for all the tips in this thread so far!

WITHOUT level dipping, what are some ways of gettng detect magic as a barbarian? the best I have found really is picking one of those traits that give you one orizon/cantrip once per day.

NOTE: for my particular use -- "detect castie" woud be fine as well.

STR 19 (2 from racial) (+4 while raging)
DEX 16 (1 from level 4)
CON 15 (+4 while raging)
(it's 15p buy)

Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Heart of the Fields (ignore effect that would cause fatigue or exhaustion once per day)
Favoured bonus: Add +1/3 to superstitious rage power

(two starter) Traits: open for suggestions

Skills: open for suggestions

+1 Furious Greatsword- 8,350gp
Mithral Breastplate +1 - 5,050gp
+3 Composite Bow 400gp
Cloak of Resistance +1 2,000gp
Remaining wealth: 200gp

WIL 0 (+2 while raging, and +4 to resisting spells and supernatural/spell-like abilities while raging)

AC 20 (-2 while raging, -2 Reckless Abandon)
CMB 10 (+8 while raging)
CMD 23 (+2 while raging)

Intiative: 3

To hit (greatsword): 6 + 4 STR (6 while raging) + 1 magic (+ 2 Furious while raging)

Damage: 2d6 + 6 STR (9 while raging) + 6 Power Attack + 1 magic (+ 2 Furious while raging)

Class: Barbarian
Archetype: Invulnerable Ranger

Level 1:
Class: Fast Movement, Rage
Feat: Improved Sunder

Level 2:
Class: DR1/-
Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem

Level 3:
Class: Extreme Endurance fire
Feat: Extra Rage Power: Superstition

Level 4:
Class: DR2/-
Rage Power: Strength Surge

Level 5:
Feat: Combat Reflexes

Level 6:
Class: DR3/-, Fire Resistance 1
Rage Power: Beast Totem
Feat: Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon

Suggestions for improvement? Hopefully superstitious, some trait and rage bonus to will saves will make up for 7 WIS. Having only one skill point per level is pretty LOL, but fits the type of character I want to play (dumb power-hungry brute). My main concern is dying really fast, which is something I'd like to avoid. Actually hitting things would also be nice. I will get Witch Hunter and Spell Sunder ASAP, for the record.

Any tips are very much welcome. The intention of the build is obviously to make a character that does a lot of damage. :-)

any ideas on doing something in the vein of this 3E build for NWN? note that I think up to level 20 would be more than enough. also note that I don't think we need to use the exact same classes at all. I just want to see an archer build that focuses on not being hit and seen. the build quoted below is meant more as an insipiration than something that should be converted to PF.

I would prefer *not* a sneak attack build, as I did make a sniper build some time ago that had like 70 in stealth and did 22d6 sneak attack on each attack with sap master and so on. I imagine more of a wizard/bard/ranger mixed with shadowdancer type situation.

sorry for not being very specific. I guess I don't really know what I want, and would like to see what this forum comes up with. but to sum up: archer that doesn't get hit nor seen and that doesn't rely on sneak attack/sniping.

here's the original build:


This is another build for Imp Invis/Epic Dodge, which thanks to syrath I now love, and prefer quite a bit to SC V not only because it saves tons of feats, but because it gives you other buffs including death immunity spells, which I don’t like to leave home without.

I didn’t see anything similar to this in the epic builds, except of course for the bard/aa/sd builds. The main difference here is lower ab in exchange for higher level spells, more slots, and most importantly to me, immunity to death magic. In fact I took 15 wizard instead of 13 just to squeeze out some extended shadow shields. If you prefer the extra 1ab/1damage, go for it, and remember you only need to end up with 17 int in this case.
Since this is only my second time using Epic Dodge (or SD, for that matter) in a build, any suggestions would be appreciated. The same would be true of my Quicksliver [working] build. Incidentally i'd like to know how to make links in this forum. It said my link had too many characters without a space.
Race: Elf
Starting Stats (Ending Stats)
STR 12
DEX 18 (28)
CON 12
INT 16 (18)

1 Wizard-(illusionist) Point Blank Shot
2 Wizard-
3 Wizard-Weapon Focus Longbow
4 Wizard-
5 Wizard-Extend Spell
6 Wizard-Rapid Shot
7 Wizard-
8 Wizard-
9 Wizard-Toughness
10 Wizard-Combat Casting (or if you prefer, empower spell/max spell)
11 Wizard-
12 Wizard-Dodge
13 Arcane Archer-
14 Arcane Archer-
15 Arcane Archer-Improved Critical: Longbow
16 Arcane Archer-
17 Arcane Archer-
18 Arcane Archer-Mobility
19 Arcane Archer-
20 Arcane Archer-
21 Arcane Archer-Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22 Arcane Archer-
23 Arcane Archer-
24 Shadow Dancer-Armor Skin
25 Shadow Dancer-
26 Shadow Dancer-
27 Shadow Dancer-Epic Fortitude
28 Shadow Dancer-
29 Shadow Dancer-
30 Shadow Dancer-Great Intelligence I
31 Shadow Dancer-
32 Shadow Dancer-
33 Shadow Dancer- Epic Dodge
34 Arcane Archer-
35 Arcane Archer-
36 Arcane Archer-Epic Prowess, Epic Will
37 Arcane Archer-
38 Wizard-
39 Wizard-Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
40 Wizard-Great Intelligence II
You get a good number of skills, which I suggest using as follows (with 35 leftover):
35 Tumble
40 Hide
40 Move Silently
43 Concentration
21 Discipline

Final stats:
HP: 340 [15*4 (wizard) + 15*8 (arcane archer) + 10*8 (shadowdancer) + 40 (toughness) + 40 (con bonus)]
28 AC Naked, Unspelled
With a mundane longbow, AB: +44/+39/+34, dmg: 1-8 + 8 (19-20 x3)
Fortitude: 25 (+8 against spells)
Reflex: 31 (+8 against spells, plus improved evasion)
Will: 23 (+8 against spells, plus slippery mind)
Epic Dodge
32 Discipline... Good thing you won’t be getting hit too often.

With shield, shadow shield, magic vestment, improved invisibility, lesser mind blank, haste and true seeing, as well as minimal bull’s strength, endurance and cat’s grace:

With all spells, a mundane robe and a mundane longbow, you get:
AC: 44
AB: 45/45/40/35 (43/43/43/38/33 with rapid shot)
Damage: 1-8+9 (if you can get a mighty bow +2, you get 2 more damage because of 14 str.)
Mind Spells
Necromancy Spells
Death Effects

And you have 50% Concealment, Epic Dodge and True Seeing.

You also have shadow evade, but I’m not entirely positive on the stats for that, or how long it lasts (the server I was testing this build on doesn’t allow SD, and I’ve never done an SD before).

You can also cast reciprocal damage spells that, if extended, will last 30 rounds. Of course with epic dodge and 50% conceal, you really won’t be getting hit enough for these to be very useful. Another useful spell is spell breach or lesser spell breach, which are like mini-mordekainens (including the no save or SR, which is nice when you only have 15 caster levels and 18 int).

50% Conceal and Epic Dodge.
High naked AC.
Solid AB, though low for an archer.
Nice reflex save.
Improved Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Defensive Roll.
Immunity to Death Magic and Mind Spells.
HIPS and high hide/ms.
Ranged attacks.

HP is pretty low (380 with min. endurance) and can’t heal.
Only 5 attacks per round at most... 3 base. 24 BAB.
Fort/Will saves aren’t too hot, but at least you have immunity to death/mind spells. The +8 from spellcraft is always a big help too.
Moderate damage output, and can’t use fire weapon on a non-melee, which sucks. This build would have a lot of trouble against high DR, especially that which can’t be eaten away at like that of a DwD. The triple crits help a little bit at least.

If you wanted to, you could drop one of the epic feats in favor of blinding speed. I happen to dislike short-term effects.

tifton wrote:
so you just want a guy that wields a katana and follows Bushido?

actually he won't be following Bushido. he has left that behind and is currently a fugitive of sorts. he will however be a guy wielding a katana, yes. I know any class can do this, but you have to actually choose a class. your argumentation makes no sense to me. I can play as any class... yes, so what? I still have to pick one. the Samurai claas seems to be a perfect match, it has a bunch of interesting class abilities, and to top it off I've never tried to play it.

tifton wrote:
Any class will do for a ronin if you simply wish to follow the way of Bushido. Just focus on what you want to do simply tying your self to a class for the sake of the name can lock you down to things you may not want and limit your options. Build a character you will want to play and call him what you want.

I'm making a samurai warrior with a katana. you'll forgive me pointing out that the samurai class is seemingly excellently suited for this.

I'm not one to be tied down by class names. I have made several "rogues" that were anything but *rogues*.

good point, actually, hehe.

I don't have Dazzling Display yet, but at least I can intimidate.

Darth Grall wrote:

It's also an ability you are likely to only get off half the time till level 10, but afterwards it doesn't matter where you are.

1 Challenge
2 Move
3 Iaijutsu strike
4 ???
5 Profit

the way I read it, Iaijutsu Strike isn't as cool as I wish it were. because prior to level 10, it is a full-round action. so I need to challenge, then move... then... wait until the next round... and then do the strike. that sounds like a bit of a waste, compared to challenging, moving, drawing as free action and hitting straight away.

tifton wrote:
Look at the Lore Warden fighter archetype might be a better fit to what you want

I think the Samurai fits very well with my character, as I want him to be... a samurai. :-P

too big party to worry about yet another char taking up a round TBH. also mount meh.

as mentioned, I need to be ronin.

hmmmm good idea!

current build:

lvl 3 sword saint ronin
33 hit points (rolled 10 & 7)

ability scores:
STR 17
DEX 11
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 10

Bluff 2
Climb 1
Handle Animal 1
Intimidate 3
Knowledge (History) 3
Knowedge (Nobility) 3
Sense Motive 1
Survival 3
Swim 1
(total of 18. that's 6 per level. (class) 4 + (human) 1 + (character advancement) 1)

class abilities as per sword saint ronin
(Challenge, Iaijutsu Strike, Self-Reliant, Resolve (Determined, Resolute, Unstoppable), Weapon Expertise (Katana), Brutal Slash)

Weapon Focus (Katana)
Intimidating Prowess (STR in addition to CHA on intimidate)
Power Attack (-1 to attack bonus, + 3 to dmg)

Deadly Masterwork Katana +1
attack: 7 ((BAB) 3 + (STR) 3 + (Weapon Focus) 1 + (enchantment bonus) 1 - 1 (Power Attack))
damage: 1d8 + 9 ((weapon) + 1 (enchantment bonus) + 5 (STR mod * 1.5) + 3 (Power Attack))

Masterwork Kusari Gusoku
armour: 7
type: heavy
check penalty: -6
spell failure: 35%
weight: 45lbs

(and a wakizaski for rp mostly)

comments/feedback is always nice.

looking at the Sword Saint archetype again now. earlier, I had misread how Iaijutsu Strike worked. it's actually looking to be a viable option. I must ask my GM what he thinks given the setting. I think mounts may be provided anyway, and I don't *really* need an animal companion style horse. not in such a big party.

STR Ranger wrote:

You NEED Dazzling Display to take Shatter Defences/Deadly Stroke it's

a Preq.

You could Dump Intimidating Prowess for Furious Focus.
The Intimidate DC is not hard. Paying for a skill item will work.

With the new options from ARG and feats. I would take Critical Versatility at 13.

aha. then intimidating prowess might be back on the menu. we're playing a low-power, low-wealth and low-magic campaign, so items won't be readily available at lower levels.

Krodjin wrote:
I just re-read the Katana entry in UC. I wonder why they chose not to make it finessable?

I'm guessing the reason is they simply didn't think about it. I doubt there's some conscious reasoning behind the decision.

I was thinking about getting furios focus instead of intimidating prowess. that means dazzling display has to go as well.

using only one weapon means I'll probably use a keen weapon and make use of the critical focus chain, instead of getting improved critical.

otherwise I'm definitely feeling that build a whole lot. unfortunately (from that build's point of view) though, I need to be Ronin. (not only because of RP or whatever, but because of setting/house rules.)

Krodjin wrote:
The real kicker is that using a katana in 2-hands will permit you to get a 3:1 return on Power Attack.

aha! brilliant. add furious focus to my feat list, and I'm looking quite fit for fight.

STR Ranger wrote:
Your thread title said Two Handed.

oh wow. sorry! meant two-weapon fighting not two-handed weapon.

thanks for all the tips. using two-handed fighting looks like an alternative though. less of a headache to make that work. is there any advantage to using a katana two-handed though apart from from increased STR bonus to damage? (not that more damage isn't neat.)

any ideas on armour? personally I'd love to do a cloth-wearer, but mechanically I think going the "the more the better" route makes sense.

that doesn't look very two-weapon friendly.

I'm starting a 15 point buy campaign and thought I'd give the samurai (no archetype) a go. never played one before, and they fit with the RP I've got in mind. however, I'm not sure I can make one that's actually any useful in a fight.

I was contemplating doing two-handed katana fighting, getting improved critical at level 8 (if we ever get that far). but we only start at level 3, and with 3000gp, so I can't afford keen weapons either.

so I'm basically looking for any hints on making a two-handed katana samurai that's somewhat efficient. I don't mind him being a one-sided fighting machine. he should also be self-reliant, and have a good-ish wis score. he needs a bunch of str for damage, but then he needs a bunch in both dex (two weapon fighting). and is using two-weapons even worth it prior to getting that feat, given all the penalties?

... any tips? both in terms of feats, how to spend skill points, how to spend ability points, gear, and everything else.

Cheapy wrote:
Eidolon's strength not allowing Synthesists to qualify for the abilities would go a long way to fixing the issues with the archetype.

that would make the entire archetype kind of suck. you'd get the special abilities and evolutions of the Eidolon, and lose everything else.

while fused they are one creature. the Eidolon doesn't have a STR modifier for any game mechanic purposes. the PC gains the Eidolon's STR.

thank you, both.

the confusion regarding Pounce stems from the fact that it specifically grants me a *Full-Attack Action* after a Charge, and the rules for Full-Attack Actions say that you may do a 5-Foot Step afterwords.

a guy in my group is playing an Inqusitor with zero ranks in Spellcraft, Knowledge Arcana, & UMD. he uses an Elven Curve Blade. that's fairly martial.

while he rarely out-damages anyone, he is one of the best all-round performers. he's just handy whatever the situation is. and the Teamwork-feats are really cool/stupid. counting adjacent allies before calculating your score on the Reflex Save is just super LOL. +22 on Flank is also pretty LOL.

they are pretty awesome at mêlée. and really badass.

when you Charge, do you move up to the target's adjacent square? and if I cast Enlarge Person to get 10ft reach, and then Charge, may I then Charge so that I am two squares away from the target?

furthermore, with Pounce, which grants me a Full-Attack Action, may I then do Flurry of Blows, and then 5-Foot Step away from the target? the rules for Charge dictate that you can't 5-Foot Step, but the rules for Full-Attack Actions specify that you may do a 5-foot step as part of this action, which I interpret as overruling the Charge rule due to the Pounce being a Special Ability, and thus a specific exception to the Charge rules (which also firmly states that you only get one attack).

lastly, if I am able to 5-Foot Step, placing me 15ft away from my target, does this mean that if it has to charge me to attack me, I get an Attack of Opportunity at 10ft?

yay! thanks!

welp, that sucks... so unless I can get by without sleeping (ever), I can't dump DEX & STR, which is one of the benefits of playing a Synthesist. sounds silly to me.

you gain the Eidolon's abilities

you lose *everything else* - including skills and having another entity to control during combat, with its own actions per round

really? if you could dump STR & DEX, I'd really love this archetype.

thank you for clarifying, guys! :-)

I don't think it is banished if I sleep or fall unconscious. there is nothing that indicates this in the Synthesist article. it *specifically* says: "When these hit points [referring to the Eidolon's hit points] reach 0, the eidolon is sent back to its home plane." it also *specifically* says that "Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected."

I interpret this as the Eidolon not being banished under other circumstances. the rules surrounding Eidolons for Synthesists are specific and special enough to warrant this interpretation, IMO. unless the rules specifically says that the Synthesist's Eidolon is banished upon sleep, I will assume it isn't. I mean, we are fused into one creature.

@erik542 what is the issue? the way I read that, is that I can power attack after being fused for 24h. I will not release the Eidolon at any time, unless it is reduced to zero hit points (and once it gets low on HP, I can sacrifice my own HP to keep it alive) or banished. if my party is going through that hard a battle, I can only hope that we will be resting for 24h after that.

does this mean a Synthethist can take Power Attack with 7 STR, if the Eidolon has > 12, considering they are considered as one being, fused together?

furthermore, can anyone link to actual rules for this in the SRD or the books?

just remembered Monk can flurry of blows with Monk weapons... Flurry of Blows with Quarterstaff? Pounce at level 1? high acrobatics? Combat Reflexes and Dodge/Mobility as bonus feats?

OK. Synthethist/Monk it is. wow. this looks insanely fun.

I know. but I don't think I (or anyone else) will be multi-classing.

Ninja is an alternate class of Rogue. I thought it was of Monk as well, but I guess it's just something the DM enforced on his own. which is fine.

right now I'm looking at Synthethist/Inquisitor, which looks fairly punishing, haha. IDK though. I'll want high acrobatics, so I think I'm kind of "forced" to get Monk levels... but I don't really want CMB (I just want to charge), and I will never want or use unarmed strike.

if you read the first post you'd see that Monk/Ninja is not legal.

if you'd also read further down, you'd see that the issue right now is which class to gestalt with Synthethist. wish I could change the thread title, heh.

IDK if I want power attack. I will need some feats to get attacks of opportunities on... everything. which is what I want. I'll also want Mobility. might even get Weapon Finesse (though I'm more interested in using a spear or some other long and cool two-handed weapon).

so I need quite some feats. Fighter! but... while fused I use the Eidolon's BAB, so I might not want a full-BAB class.

I don't want Monk, because I don't want to use unarmed strike at all, ever.

but I know I definitely want to play Synthethist now. this class is just way too cool. Summoner has got to be the coolest class in all of Pathfinder. I'm in love, haha. thanks for triggering my interest.

I did not consider this. that makes the Barbarian less interesting. but Synthethist/Fighter would surely be plausible. I am more interested in playing a character that dishes out damage than a grappler or whatever.

I guess, thinking only about RP and not game mechanically, I want to play a character which is very fast and elegant, as well as wise (high perception and sense motive). so I'd like someone that strikes lightning fast, with lots of attacks of opportunity, and charging (which makes Pounce very nice). I'd ideally also like some AC, as I am not primarily looking to make a in-and-out character that just spring attacks all the time, or whatever, but more of a "teleport? lol don't think so, attack of opportunity time!"-character. i.e. someone who hunts down everyone and lets no one escape - and is capable of spectacular acrobatics, jumping down from rooftops, etc.

ultimately, I don't want to play a Monk at all. I just want a lot of acrobatics and attacks of opportunity, which the Monk happens to get. I'd prefer a Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, or whatever to the Monk. I don't want unarmed damage. I don't want to play Lawful. I just want to be fast and have lots of flair.

edit: just realised the Synthethist uses the Eidolon's BAB, so full-BAB classes are kind of meh. and I don't really want to be doing sneak attacks, so Rogue is sort of meh. (on a more positive note, I saw that I get the Eidolon's special abilities - so Evasion at level 2, wee.)

I guess I'm at loss as to which class to gestalt with.

really considering Synthethist/Barbarian as well. I don't know which would be better, Synthethist/Barbarian or Synthethist/Monk. but I'd imagine a Barbarian with Combat Reflexes, Enlarge Person and some polearm or other huge spear-ish weapon would be amazing and precisely what I'm looking for. thoughts?

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