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Dear, Paizo do you offer your rule books with out the sexy art?
I am in love with your, products just not the artwork. I am trying to get my family involved in to role playing and am looking for more family friendly covers. i don't want my eife and child to have to be exposed to giant breasted scantly clad females. if all possible. i understand the market you are going for and i am not judging you at all I just am not a proponent of "sex sells" and was wondering if you have alternate covers? or artwork free books?
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It's not a book, but you can get all of the rules for free and without images here:
or on paizo's site:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/
Other than that, all the books have artwork as far as I know.
will that have stuff like the inner sea world guide? or just the basics?
Only the rules are covered under the OGL; the world-specific stuff is Paizo's IP and not freely available online.
You might want to look into the beginner box, that does not have the sorceress or the witch on it, but our always lovable rogue.
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You can find summarized versions of the inner sea guide type books here:
http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Wiki.
It does have images, but far fewer. And because it is a website you can choose not to load images from the site (in firefox for ex you would do: tools -> options -> content -> load image exceptions).
You could also try purchasing pdfs instead and either not print the images, or print and excise the images you found distasteful.
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Jiggy: Anyone offended by Seoni's dress or Alhandra's outfit should probably steer clear of beaches, swimming pools, the Internet, formal ballrooms, James Bond movies, beauty pageants, the magazine covers in the check-out aisle as the super market, prime-time television...
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Yeesh, people, what happened to friendly board answers? Take a breath, please.
I also have reservations about purchasing Pathfinder RPG books for my pre-teen niece, and with a three-year old daughter in my house I have to be very careful about putting my books high on a shelf -- not to mention that I can't use some of them when she's in the room. It won't stop me from using (and loving) PFRPG products, but it is a problem I didn't have with any of my 3.5e books.
I am looking forward to the Beginner Box coming out, since I happily noticed that Merisiel has more skin covered than usual.
Senior Software Developer
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I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children.
Jiggy: Anyone offended by Seoni's dress or Alhandra's outfit should probably steer clear of beaches, swimming pools, the Internet, formal ballrooms, James Bond movies, beauty pageants, the magazine covers in the check-out aisle as the super market, prime-time television...
i do do most of that actually, lol i dont get why formal ballrooms? but i just wanted to say not trying to start a huge "thing" just asking is all i am well aware that what my choices are seen as extreme or what ever. in the words of bon jovi "it is my life and i will live it my way"
I just don't understand why it makes you guys so mad maybe i am misreading the posts.
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Dear, Paizo do you offer your rule books with out the sexy art?
No, they don't. There are various reasons for this, but they won't and never will.
I am in love with your, products just not the artwork. I am trying to get my family involved in to role playing and am looking for more family friendly covers. i don't want my eife and child to have to be exposed to giant breasted scantly clad females. if all possible. i understand the market you are going for and i am not judging you at all I just am not a proponent of "sex sells" and was wondering if you have alternate covers? or artwork free books?
I would suggest considering some of the fine independent rpgs out there, such as Faery's Tale from Firefly Games. It's entirely appropriate for children.
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Jiggy: Anyone offended by Seoni's dress or Alhandra's outfit should probably steer clear of beaches, swimming pools, the Internet, formal ballrooms, James Bond movies, beauty pageants, the magazine covers in the check-out aisle as the super market, prime-time television...i do do most of that actually, lol i dont get why formal ballrooms? but i just wanted to say not trying to start a huge "thing" just asking is all i am well aware that what my choices are seen as extreme or what ever. in the words of bon jovi "it is my life and i will live it my way"
I just don't understand why it makes you guys so mad maybe i am misreading the posts.
It doesn't make people mad, so much as people have very strong feelings on the subject, and some people are slightly offended by the implications of what you're asking.
Mostly people get worked up about this because the implication of comments like yours (and I'm not saying that you think this) is that it's perfectly acceptable to promote extreme violence, but that it is morally offensive to have anything remotely titillating in art.
Pathfinder is a game where you can chop people into pieces with an axe, set fire to their corpse, and banish them to Hell. The implication of your post, in some people's eyes, is that you think that's appropriate for children, but a little cleavage will somehow cause them harm. Again, not saying that is what you think, but it does seem to be the implication, and it strikes many people as not just a bit backward, but a root cause of many of the problems plaguing our society.
Jiggy: Anyone offended by Seoni's dress or Alhandra's outfit should probably steer clear of beaches, swimming pools, the Internet, formal ballrooms, James Bond movies, beauty pageants, the magazine covers in the check-out aisle as the super market, prime-time television...i do do most of that actually, lol i dont get why formal ballrooms? but i just wanted to say not trying to start a huge "thing" just asking is all i am well aware that what my choices are seen as extreme or what ever. in the words of bon jovi "it is my life and i will live it my way"
I just don't understand why it makes you guys so mad maybe i am misreading the posts.It doesn't make people mad, so much as people have very strong feelings on the subject, and some people are slightly offended by the implications of what you're asking.
Mostly people get worked up about this because the implication of comments like yours (and I'm not saying that you think this) is that it's perfectly acceptable to promote extreme violence, but that it is morally offensive to have anything remotely titillating in art.
Pathfinder is a game where you can chop people into pieces with an axe, set fire to their corpse, and banish them to Hell. The implication of your post, in some people's eyes, is that you think that's appropriate for children, but a little cleavage will somehow cause them harm. Again, not saying that is what you think, but it does seem to be the implication, and it strikes many people as not just a bit backward, but a root cause of many of the problems plaguing our society.
i can see that and understand, but as the dm i choose what level of violence is n my campaigns and it is not descriptive or a blood bath. he whole point of role playing is make believe with rules. think of different types of fantasy movies dragon slayer or conan.
you can choose to do allot but has the gm i decide how descriptive it so i set the level of violence and excessive gore.
does that make sense? i am not only anti sex sells but also anti excessive violence anti allot of stuff. but i am basically a nerd deep down and loved and do love playing role playing games.
Jiggy: Anyone offended by Seoni's dress or Alhandra's outfit should probably steer clear of beaches, swimming pools, the Internet, formal ballrooms, James Bond movies, beauty pageants, the magazine covers in the check-out aisle as the super market, prime-time television...i do do most of that actually, lol i dont get why formal ballrooms? but i just wanted to say not trying to start a huge "thing" just asking is all i am well aware that what my choices are seen as extreme or what ever. in the words of bon jovi "it is my life and i will live it my way"
I just don't understand why it makes you guys so mad maybe i am misreading the posts.It doesn't make people mad, so much as people have very strong feelings on the subject, and some people are slightly offended by the implications of what you're asking.
Mostly people get worked up about this because the implication of comments like yours (and I'm not saying that you think this) is that it's perfectly acceptable to promote extreme violence, but that it is morally offensive to have anything remotely titillating in art.
Pathfinder is a game where you can chop people into pieces with an axe, set fire to their corpse, and banish them to Hell. The implication of your post, in some people's eyes, is that you think that's appropriate for children, but a little cleavage will somehow cause them harm. Again, not saying that is what you think, but it does seem to be the implication, and it strikes many people as not just a bit backward, but a root cause of many of the problems plaguing our society.
i put my soap box down, have you seen it?
Out of curiosity, which book are you referring to?
me? feel free to laugh but the core rulebook i took a magic marker to. besides that i am thinking of buying more. really like how they did 3.75
it is funny alo when i was writing the original post i thought to my self do i need to say anything about "keep your opinions to yourself? or will people get all up in a row about how can you say that but still chop peoples heads off ect,
the point i think i need to make is even for me has an adult i am not in love with the scantly clad women in the book not just for my kids but for me. has a 30 year old i don't go to movies with nudity or excessive violence. in fact i www.kids-in-mind.com most movies before i see them. the point is it is nit just for my kids but for me also not a fan of huge violence ext so my games are a probably less descriptive n that area but still standard pathfinder games.
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i can see that and understand, but as the dm i choose what level of violence is n my campaigns and it is not descriptive or a blood bath. he whole point of role playing is make believe with rules. think of different types of fantasy movies dragon slayer or conan.
Sure. Again, I'd recommend checking out Faery's Tale. It's a well designed game that's easy to learn and play, so it won't overwhelm kids, the art is as appropriate for children as the average children's book, and the system encourages a non-violent, story problem approach that sounds like it would fit well with your goals (introducing your kids to role-playing, avoiding gratuitous sex appeal).
And, of course, it's a fun game for adults too.
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i put my soap box down, have you seen it?
Pfft. You should have seen the post I deleted. Let's just say I have very strong opinions on this topic.
At any rate, paizo seems to have learned the lesson from TSR and WOTC's experience: Sex sells to the the core audience, and the people who are offended by it can never be satisfied. So there is nothing to be lost nor gained by catering to them.
Paizo could dress every female character in burkas, and there would still be the exact same complaints. You can find people complaining about this back in the Dragon Forums in the early 80's, back when D&D art really did trend towards naked women tied to altars and being presented as prizes for successful adventurers (which actually is kind of offensive). TSR responded to those complaints over and over again, taming down the art in each subsequent release of D&D (here's a nice visual of the trend), but the complaints never stopped (check out Astrid's Parlor on the WOTC forums, there are threads about this that are six years old and still going strong). They never even moderated in tone.
You cannot win by catering to the prudish crowd. You can never be prudish enough for them. Which is why most RPG companies don't even bother to try.
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Out of curiosity, which book are you referring to?me? feel free to laugh but the core rulebook i took a magic marker to. besides that i am thinking of buying more. really like how they did 3.75
it is funny alo when i was writing the original post i thought to my self do i need to say anything about "keep your opinions to yourself? or will people get all up in a row about how can you say that but still chop peoples heads off ect,
the point i think i need to make is even for me has an adult i am not in love with the scantly clad women in the book not just for my kids but for me. has a 30 year old i don't go to movies with nudity or excessive violence. in fact i www.kids-in-mind.com most movies before i see them. the point is it is nit just for my kids but for me also not a fan of huge violence ext so my games are a probably less descriptive n that area but still standard pathfinder games.
In all honesty you will likely have to do what you already did. Which is take a marker to the books. The core book is pretty normal for the level of artwork. Some books are a little bit to each side of it in that regard but not far one way or the other.
Either that or as some others have said turn the artwork off in the PDF's and possible print them that way. Glad you are your family are enjoying the game, just can't think of any other solutions for you. Short of asking Paizo to change their art, which is a topic that has come up before and as happens I would be on the other side of. :)
Either way best of luck and hope you keep enjoying the game.
i don't feel like pathfinder is overly violent or even overtly sexual has a game system. just the books have a bunch of scantily clad ladies in them. plain and simple. i don't want pathfinder to change there book cover at all and i am not holding a sign,saying paizo is evil or am i demanding they change anything just asking if they have a different cover. if yes than great if no than also great. i think folks are getting all hot and bothered for no good reason really. i don't think just because i don't want to see some other women goodies except my wifes. i should be relegated to playing 6 year old fairy nonsense dnd. but once my daughter grows up i may start her on it. better than fake tea parties.
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DELETED
Just remembered that these forums can't handle serious discussion without people losing their ****.
I'm offended by your deleted post, because I'm sure it was offensive before you deleted it.
;P
I'm offended by your attempted censorship. The fact that he self-censored it himself only increases how much I am offended.
If you had the PDF, you could:
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- Print out the pages (or entire thing, say at Kinkos) in the first pass.
- Then go through the printed pages for anything unsuitable, and then either 1) magic marker it out, or 2) paste a blank rectangle (or another piece of clipart) over the unsuitable pic.
- Make a photocopy of the redacted page.
- Now reassemble the printed pages using the pages with the redacted pics.
- Have Kinkos (or whomever) bind it, or holepunch it for a three-ring-binder.
Don't know how much it'd cost though.
If you had the PDF, you could:
.
.
.
.
- Print out the pages (or entire thing, say at Kinkos) in the first pass.
- Then go through the printed pages for anything unsuitable, and then either 1) magic marker it out, or 2) paste a blank rectangle (or another piece of clipart) over the unsuitable pic.
- Make a photocopy of the redacted page.
- Now reassemble the printed pages using the pages with the redacted pics.
- Have Kinkos (or whomever) bind it, or holepunch it for a three-ring-binder.
Don't know how much it'd cost though.
that could work just pricey though, best bet is to buy the book and magic marker every thing out i don't like not a problem. at all really.
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i don't feel like pathfinder is overly violent or even overtly sexual has a game system. just the books have a bunch of scantily clad ladies in them. plain and simple. i don't want pathfinder to change there book cover at all and i am not holding a sign,saying paizo is evil or am i demanding they change anything just asking if they have a different cover. if yes than great if no than also great. i think folks are getting all hot and bothered for no good reason really. i don't think just because i don't want to see some other women goodies except my wifes. i should be relegated to playing 6 year old fairy nonsense dnd. but once my daughter grows up i may start her on it. better than fake tea parties.
I hear you, brother. Though I don't agree with your point of view, personally, I support your right to have it. And, even though the thought of you taking a magic marker to the stunning art in the Pathfinder core rulebook makes me dizzy and feel like crying, I MOSTLY support the fact that you want to share in the table-top fantasy role playing experience with your family.
As others have pointed out, the Official PRD and the PFSRD are probably your best bet. You won't have access to *all* of the Paizo IP content, but you'll have access to everything you need to play the game by the rules (and some extra, especially at the PFSRD). You'll have to do some world-building to compensate for the lack of access to the IP content, but hey, that's part of the fun of the game.
More importantly, I don't think all of the material has pictures which you may find to be inappropriate for your family. Off the top of my head, I don't recall any "racy" images in the Inner Sea World Guide, for example. I recommend a trip to the hobby/game store, flip through the books, and determine if you think it's OK or not.
Good luck to you.
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I just don't understand why it makes you guys so mad maybe i am misreading the posts.
To be fair, as others have mentioned, the artwork in Paizo's material is something of a heated topic around here. One that's probably been beaten to death and resurrected a few too many times. Even so, let me state that it was another poster's comment that set me off, not your desire to raise your child the way you see fit.
With that said, I suspect it is a difference in outlooks as to why some of us get riled up over this topic. In the interest of fostering mutual understanding, here's my outlook...
Having known feminists of many different stripes, I've observed a growing mindset that seems to feel that it is healthier and more natural to embrace one's natural beauty (or lack thereof) and be comfortable with it. This stands in contrast to being made to feel like they either need to hide it away, be embarrassed by it, feel intimidated by others, or try to and emulate being a man. Essentially, my female friends who think this way seem to have concluded that feminism to them means embracing their sexuality and what sets them apart from men rather than bemoaning it.
i don't feel like pathfinder is overly violent or even overtly sexual has a game system. just the books have a bunch of scantily clad ladies in them. plain and simple. i don't want pathfinder to change there book cover at all and i am not holding a sign,saying paizo is evil or am i demanding they change anything just asking if they have a different cover. if yes than great if no than also great. i think folks are getting all hot and bothered for no good reason really. i don't think just because i don't want to see some other women goodies except my wifes. i should be relegated to playing 6 year old fairy nonsense dnd. but once my daughter grows up i may start her on it. better than fake tea parties.I hear your, brother. Though I don't agree with your point of view, personally, I support your right to have it. And, even though the thought of you taking a magic marker to the stunning art in the Pathfinder core rulebook makes me dizzy and feel like crying, I MOSTLY support the fact that you want to share in the table-top fantasy role playing experience with your family.
As others have pointed out, the Official PRD and the PFSRD are probably your best bet. You won't have access to *all* of the Paizo IP content, but you'll have access to everything you need to play the game by the rules (and some extra, especially at the PFSRD). You'll have to do some world-building to compensate for the lack of access to the IP content, but hey, that's part of the fun of the game.
More importantly, I don't think all of the material has pictures which you may find to be inappropriate for your family. Off the top of my head, I don't recall any "racy" images in the Inner Sea World Guide, for example. I recommend a trip to the hobby/game store, slip through the books, and determine if you think it's OK or not.
Good luck to you.
thanks for that comment the art is pretty bad ass at times also reminds me of being 15 and stuck in class. lol
I just don't understand why it makes you guys so mad maybe i am misreading the posts.
To be fair, as others have mentioned, the artwork in Paizo's material is something of a heated topic around here. One that's probably been beaten to death and resurrected a few too many times. Even so, let me state that it was another poster's comment that set me off, not your desire to raise your child the way you see fit.
With that said, I suspect it is a difference in outlooks as to why some of us get riled up over this topic. In the interest of fostering mutual understanding, here's my outlook...
Having known feminists of many different stripes, I've observed a growing mindset that seems to feel that it is healthier and more natural to embrace one's natural beauty (or lack thereof) and be comfortable with it. This stands in contrast to being made to feel like they either need to hide it away, be embarrassed by it, feel intimidated by others, or try to and emulate being a man. Essentially, my female friends who think this way seem to have concluded that feminism to them means embracing their sexuality and what sets them apart from men rather than bemoaning it.
honestly i had no idea this was such a hot topic. it is not like i am playing a monk or anything. but thanks for your point of view i really appreciate it.
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So to answer your question, NO. They don't offer any alternative artwork. And I can't imagine a world where a publishing company would. The costs to them would be crazy. I can't even imagine what possessed you to think they would offer such a product. I mean, who does that? Seriously, name one single game company who does what you're asking about/for(publishing different versions of role-playing game system with alternative art.)
I didn't think so.
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I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children.
This happened already hasn't it? Man, i feel sad somehow.
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Since we're (roughly) on the topic of Pathfinder art, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Ezren, the iconic wizard, looks like John McVie from Fleetwood Mac (pictured on the left in the banner).
That is all.
honestly i had no idea this was such a hot topic. it is not like i am playing a monk or anything. but thanks for your point of view i really appreciate it.
There are so many posts on these forums that it can be difficult to find topics aged out of the first 20 posts or so — even topics that are many 100s of replies long. i.e. Don't sweat it. You had an honest question that needed some kind of an answer.
As far as redacted texts/photos go, printing issues aside, I'm not sure how well that would work. When I was a child, if I sensed that something was being hidden from me it only made me all the more curious about why. Remember, a small child isn't going to see a photo the same was that an adult has. (Kind of like Adam and Eve needing to have eaten the forbidden fruit before realizing they were naked.)
Now I think I recall seeing a text-only version of the core rules on d20pfsrd.com. I actually keep a copy of that on my netbook and cell phone since it's artwork free and renders much more quickly. That could be a more feasible solution. Let me see if I can find the link...
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I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children.
/sigh
But those are the BEST threads...
/mutter
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So to answer your question, NO. They don't offer any alternative artwork. And I can't imagine a world where a publishing company would. The costs to them would be crazy. I can't even imagine what possessed you to think they would offer such a product. I mean, who does that? Seriously, name one single game company who does what you're asking about/for(publishing different versions of role-playing game system with alternative art.)
I didn't think so.
Yeah, I was seriously tempted to accuse Lobolusk of trolling. He does seem sincere, but the answer to his question is so obviously "of course not" that it's hard for me to believe that anyone could ask it for a reason other than to stir up trouble.
But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just doesn't know enough about the publishing world to realize how completely ludicrous the question is.
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I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children.
Honestly, Gary, best bet is to just lock it then. This is not a product Paizo offers. The only alternative artwork I'm aware of was on Rise of the Runelords#1.
I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children./sigh
But those are the BEST threads...
/mutter
again, I didn't this was "monk sucks" level posts. my bad i have the prd and srd documents. thanks all for your suggestions. feel free to add an more you suck posts below this one as i wont be responding anymore as my questions was answered. i am sincere and not a troll i don't know what that is outside of green and regenerates. lol keep on living the dream people!
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again, I didn't this was "monk sucks" level posts. my bad i have the prd and srd documents. thanks all for your suggestions. feel free to add an more you suck posts below this one as i wont be responding anymore as my questions was so tacticfully and nicely answered by reckless. lol keep on living the dream people!I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children./sigh
But those are the BEST threads...
/mutter
I was just making light of the situation as a whole. It's how I deal with drama and confrontation...
;)
P.S. Who said monks suck? Monks are delicious awesomesauce!
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Lobolusk: Near the bottom of this page under "Downloadable PDFs of Site Files" you'll find an OGL bestiary and also a rulebook. These do not contain graphics and may work out better if you take the Kinko's route.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/downloads
EDIT: Ah looks like you already have these. Oh well, maybe someone else needs them. :)
But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just doesn't know enough about the publishing world to realize how completely ludicrous the question is.
Before you attack his intelligence and/or accuse him of trolling, I'll point out that there is precident in the music marketplace for selling censored versions of CDs alongside the uncensored version. Given that precident, Loboluk's question is entirely fair.
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Chief Technical Officer
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it is not like i am playing a monk or anything.
That made me chuckle, because the icon you've chosen for the boards is Sajan, our iconic monk!
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Lobolusk: Near the bottom of this page under "Downloadable PDFs of Site Files" you'll find an OGL bestiary and also a rulebook. These do not contain graphics and may work out better if you take the Kinko's route.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/downloads
EDIT: Ah looks like you already have these. Oh well, maybe someone else needs them. :)
sorry but that was the most helpful link you gave me. thanks very much. that will help me out immensely. +5
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Chief Technical Officer
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The only alternative artwork I'm aware of was on Rise of the Runelords#1.
We also had an alternate cover for #13.
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But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just doesn't know enough about the publishing world to realize how completely ludicrous the question is.Before you attack his intelligence and/or accuse him of trolling, I'll point out that there is precident in the music marketplace for selling censored versions of CDs alongside the uncensored version. Given that precident, Loboluk's question is entirely fair.
Just a thought, but maybe the problem isn't the art...but wives?
And children.
it is not like i am playing a monk or anything.That made me chuckle, because the icon you've chosen for the boards is Sajan, our iconic monk!
well because monks are so friking rad?