Just FYI, "those prude Americans" is a little offensive and many people in the US are as liberal and open minded as you can get. Try not to judge a whole country based on a particular subset of it's people. Keep in mind that "those prude Americans" are also responsible for the world's largest pornography industry."Those prude Americans" are also the ones who will throw you in the slammer to do hard time for urinating in your own backyard, or going topless at the local beach (except in NY and one or two other states). And who turn a tenth-of-a-second "wardrobe malfunction" into a $250M lawsuit.
Yeah, the more liberally-minded of us who reside here might resent being lumped with the Puritans, but as long as we allow the latter to make the laws, we have to accept the jeers of our neighbors across the pond and north of the border.
+1
Thank you for being you, and not well, any one else Kirth. You restore my faith in your amazing nation almost every time you post ;)
...i cant believe i am getting into this again but no my family gave up on cable a few years back when the 1stWeird question, but am I alone in wanting to see nudes in pathfinder artwork.
Before I go on, I am not asking paizo to change anything, nor do I expect them too, but I am interested to know if I am the only one who feels that nudity along with a slightly more frank dealing with themes of sex, relationships, love,and lust within pathfinder products would be a welcome thing. Classical art and myth, as well as good chunk of fiction from through out the ages has included theses things. Seeing Pathfinder as a product really fairly squarely aimed at adults, it seems incongruous that these subjects are avoided.
I mean, I am old enough to drink, vote and make informed decisions. Genitalia do not offend me, nude studies are among many of my favourite works of art, and I can see the odd one fitting well into Pathfinder products. In the same vain, I can see stories about, lust, sex and bigotry being an interesting and vibrant addition to the Pallet used by in the pathfinder adventure paths and modules.
Still, it's just not a safe business decision. There are too many greedy lawyers out there.
For the record, I consider depictions of careless violence to be much more harmful. And that's why I shield my 4-year-old from certain news, films and pictures.
Would I mind seeing nudity or sex in Paizo books? Definitely not as long as it is part of context.
However, the original poster asked about different thing - he wanted his significant other and kid avoid being slighted by apparent objectification of fairer sex. I think that asking the ladies would be for the best. Speculation or mocking his fears is unlikely to be helpful.
Regards,
RuemerePS. I don't think that Arnold S. or Jason M. are objectifying male sex by posing as Mr C.
yeah i though you may go to the nudity art thing in fact i was assuming you would use the birth of Venus and you did i didn't expect you to get what i was saying at or agree with it.
i like how you and every body assumes that i am this over protective sheltering religious weirdo who wants to burn down the louve, make paizo change there art work, and basicly any time a lady in a bikini walks buy i panic and scream "i need an adult" and go fetal. i am neither of those thingsand maybe next time you should just take my question for what it is. not read so much in to it.
maybe i am a guy who loves his wife and thinks women should be respected for themselves not what they look like naked? and society is doing a damn piss poor job of instilling good self esteem in its daughters .
you know what every day at work i say to my self dont check this thread but i always do and get drawn into the stereo typical forum post argument. i cant do it. i just cant i have a life! i have to mow my lawn and do my job. i could care less what any body thinks of me i really do.
man,,,,, this is it i am really don't this time! for reals!
paizo you guys keep makign amazing rpg books i really love what you have done. i mean it keep on keeping on. not a fna of the art but i cant change what you do nor would i it is not my job. peace (gets on motorcycle and rides off while bon jovi plays)
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This is a dreadful oversimplification, and completely ignores my carefully stated situation above. Thanks for reducing a nuanced argument to polarized points.
Maybe I'll believe you when your friends start demanding that the iconic monk put on a shirt. Until then, I'm with Gailbraithe on this one.
(Note: My girlfriend thinks the monk is kinda hot -- and I'm fine with that. I'm just not convinced your friends are consistent in their ideological bias, which seems to be a common, though not universal, problem amongst atheistic liberal women in this country.)
Hardly prescient assumption, since I had already made the argument earlier thread, and cited diana and actaeon by Titian. The birth of venus was a fall back.
I have never said that I thought you wanted to burn down the louvre, and I don't think that you do. While you arn't burning down the louvre, you are asking paizo to behave differently because of your convictions and you do seem unhealthily keen to denigh yourself perfectly reasonable and beautiful media for no good reason.
As for loony and religions, those two are synonyms in my lexicon, but don't take offence at that, your in the company of many people I respect greatly, despite their beliefs.
Thinking a woman should be respected for who they are, and not what they look like naked does not require you to ask for a new version of pathfinder with different art. It is entirely possible to be a sex positive feminist.
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@Lobolusk: You are describing for yourself a mode of thought and behavior that is so foreign to many of the people here that it is making them uncomfortable. You are not conforming to their paradym of behavior for a male in your situation. You must therefore be wrong, and that is why you are getting pushed so hard to change your outlook. Your outlook is uncomfortable for them.
@apotheon: I find your comment about the monk being bare-chested a bit strange. Are suggesting that males going bare-chested is 100% identical to females going bare-chested, in 100% of all situations and locations? And if so, why are YOU not arguing for bare-chested female characters if you find the monk acceptable?
@Lobolusk: You are describing for yourself a mode of thought and behavior that is so foreign to many of the people here that it is making them uncomfortable. You are not conforming to their paradym of behavior for a male in your situation. You must therefore be wrong, and that is why you are getting pushed so hard to change your outlook. Your outlook is uncomfortable for them.
@apotheon: I find your comment about the monk being bare-chested a bit strange. Are suggesting that males going bare-chested is 100% identical to females going bare-chested, in 100% of all situations and locations? And if so, why are YOU not arguing for bare-chested female characters if you find the monk acceptable?
Mmm.. while your right that believing "magic man gone done punished me for thought crime" is very alien to me, it isn't its alienness that makes me consider it wrong.
It's failure to conform with either logic or reality makes it very likely to be wrong, and the reason the I am pushing him, is because I respect him enough to wish him emancipated from such an abhorant idea as "I can be punished for what I think, and that's okay because thinking things is evil".
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<Toasts marshmallows>
<Waits to see if Sebastian arrives in time to bring the house down for the grand finale>
(BTW I've heard that Blizzard says in World of Warcraft, the least-played race/gender combo is female dwarf, so this isn't just a Pathfinder/D&D issue.)
I bet it's about the beards.
Would I prefer their to be less attractive Iconics, sure
You're just saying that so you're not the only fugly one around here, you disgusting rotting corpse maniac! :P
not going to read the whole thread but it would be cool to have books with out all the art work for Tab and iPad use, for load times, just a thought,
I love the art work but it takes longer to load
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@Lobolusk: You are describing for yourself a mode of thought and behavior that is so foreign to many of the people here that it is making them uncomfortable. You are not conforming to their paradym of behavior for a male in your situation. You must therefore be wrong, and that is why you are getting pushed so hard to change your outlook. Your outlook is uncomfortable for them.
@apotheon: I find your comment about the monk being bare-chested a bit strange. Are suggesting that males going bare-chested is 100% identical to females going bare-chested, in 100% of all situations and locations? And if so, why are YOU not arguing for bare-chested female characters if you find the monk acceptable?
Nah, it's not OP's outlook that's uncomfortable, it's just that he should seek urgently professional help. If you take a marker to your book to mark out the boobies, it's not just "being true to yourself" chest pounding, that's a medical condition. I'm slightly worried what kind of children will such mindset educate.
not going to read the whole thread but it would be cool to have books with out all the art work for Tab and iPad use, for load times, just a thought,
I love the art work but it takes longer to load
For the iOS (I dont know if it's avaialble for the Android) you can get the PF Reference Document App which is basically the PFSRD. I use it in my games and it's fairly quick to reference. It's $5 but well worth it if you want the rules and NONE of the art.
Would I prefer their to be less attractive Iconics, sureYou're just saying that so you're not the only fugly one around here, you disgusting rotting corpse maniac! :P
It hurts because it is true *runs of to weep*
kids-in-mind.com
I looked them up. Talk about hair trigger!
I just got done with the first 2 discs of the modern 'knight rider.' Nearly EVERY episode they find SOME way to get those two in their underwear.... in the shower... sweaty and fighting... SOMETHING sexy ;)
Now I have to watch that!
- Wait, who are the people getting in underwear? After the BJ scene thing from Episode 5 of Game of Thrones, I learned to be weary. ;-)
my faith clearly states "if you look upon a women with lust in your heart you have committed adultery" not to get all cleric on you
And you let your wife complain? Because your faith (unless I mistake your faith for something else) also says "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
And the kids? That faith says "He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently."
Again, I might be confused. Your faith might be something completely different. I was talking about Christianity, as this stuff comes from the Bible.
wow your fricking literalYou're
It's never too soon to start teaching proper English to the children.
Take the day off, sweetie. He's a lost cause.
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And you let your wife complain? Because your faith (unless I mistake your faith for something else) also says "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
And the kids? That faith says "He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently."
Again, I might be confused. Your faith might be something completely different. I was talking about Christianity, as this stuff comes from the Bible.
My favorite is that the punishment for having the temerity to be raped is for the town to stone you to death. Ah, Bronze Age justice.
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Probably this thread has reached the end of its usefulness, lest it degenerate into more religious pot-shots.
I'm actually sort of on KaeYoss's side, but this has become exactly what Gary said it should not be.
Is it time for a smurf yet?Well past time I say.
Smurfier than that, even.
Just FYI, "those prude Americans" is a little offensive and many people in the US are as liberal and open minded as you can get.
First of all, I'm only talking about the prude ones. That's why I said "those prude Americans".
Yeah, okay, that's bullshit.
My actual argument is that you should not be offended by me generalising prude Americans. You should be offended that this generalisation seems to be relevant enough to influence business decisions.
See, while this isn't the first thread about the downfall of civilisation as evidenced in Pathfinder art, there are requests to go the opposite way - and not just bogus or humorous ones. People actually want more sexual themes and nudity in the game.
And the answer we get is "Sorry, but this would hurt our business too much, sex/nudity is a touchy subject in the USA, and that's where we're located and most of our customers live." Or something like that.
And you can't really blame Paizo.
Or look at computer games, like the regular edition of The Witcher 1. No boobs. Or the old Giant: Citizen Kabuto game. That's just two examples I can think of right now. There are probably more.
It hurts because it is true *runs of to weep*Would I prefer their to be less attractive Iconics, sureYou're just saying that so you're not the only fugly one around here, you disgusting rotting corpse maniac! :P
Ah, it's good to be evil! I get to feel satisfaction about that! ;-P
I'm at work on my smartphone, so I can't look it up myself, but doesn't the Bible also forbid dice games and games of chance?
No, it does not.
You may be thinking of the Old Testament prohibition against divination perfromed via necromancy, which was traditionally performed by throwing bones carved with runes, and interpreting how they came up. But that ban is very specific to Cleromancy, and you're not making an honest intepretation if you try to apply that to all dice games.
- Wait, who are the people getting in underwear? After the BJ scene thing from Episode 5 of Game of Thrones, I learned to be weary. ;-)I think you mean wary. Unless you very VERY vigorously enjoyed that scene.
No, you misunderstand. Friend brought me the video file, said I need to watch this episode. I said "naw, I'm tired, I'm going to sleep, going to watch it tomorrow." And he said: "No, you need to watch this today. There's a really nice BJ scene halfway through." Wasn't as weary all of a sudden.
Turns out Dragon Girl wasn't involved after all.
Now I have a new rule: When you're weary, you're weary. Even if someone tells you of great scenes. *Especially* if a *certain* someone tells you of scenes.
He's the kind of guy who wouldn't be above telling you that that Portal 2 scene where Cave Johnson has a tirade about lemons has its following and that they have their own website at lemonparty.XXX (note, I'm not going to tell you the TLD, and just for the record, it's not an innocent page about lemons. Don't go there).
Just a thought, but maybe the problem isn't the art...but wives?
And children.
+1,000.
Seriously. I can't even wrap my head around the issues behind this thread. There's absolutely nothing in any Pathfinder book that isn't trumped by TV, Movies,billboards, beaches, the internet, and most other forms of media that people see every single day.
If your wife is really that concerned about fantasy artwork, that raises a lot more questions about your wife than it does about the art.
If your child is so young and vulnerable that such pictures are cause for concern, Pathfinder probably isn't the best game to be playing with them.
Smurfier than that, even.Is it time for a smurf yet?Well past time I say.
