Paizo do you offer your rule books without the sexy art?


Paizo General Discussion

101 to 150 of 331 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lobolusk wrote:

Dear, Paizo do you offer your rule books with out the sexy art?

I am in love with your, products just not the artwork. I am trying to get my family involved in to role playing and am looking for more family friendly covers. i don't want my eife and child to have to be exposed to giant breasted scantly clad females. if all possible. i understand the market you are going for and i am not judging you at all I just am not a proponent of "sex sells" and was wondering if you have alternate covers? or artwork free books?

[Grumble]

Seriously? I see more risqué clothing than the shot of Sioni on the cover of the book, at dinner parties.

Are you seriously saying that you uncomfortable with you children realising that humans are sexually dimorphic and seeing non-explicit images that demonstrate a range of appearances and clothing types amongst females without judgement about them, but that at the same time you are cool with them playing a game about murdering sentient creatures for profit?

look, if they arn't ready to understand that their are genders, and have a nebulous understanding that sex exists and that it is the source of baddies, they probably aren't ready to play murders for hire in lets pretend.

If you really think their ready for role-playing, but not some incredibly mild images of the female form, might I suggest mouseguard. It is a game in which the PCs are effectively sexless, in which they are unquestionably heroes, an interesting tool to start talking to you children about death and its ramifications. [/grumble]

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
pres man wrote:
Reckless wrote:

So to answer your question, NO. They don't offer any alternative artwork. And I can't imagine a world where a publishing company would. The costs to them would be crazy. I can't even imagine what possessed you to think they would offer such a product. I mean, who does that? Seriously, name one single game company who does what you're asking about/for(publishing different versions of role-playing game system with alternative art.)

I didn't think so.

I will point out that Silver Age Sentinels did have two versions of their core book out. The standard hard back with all the pictures and the "Stingy" paperback version without the pictures at about 1/4 of the cover price. So I don't think the idea is beyond any consideration of a print press, just not a common practice.

Also in the electronic age, it may be slightly easier coming up with a non-image version of a pdf file, so that may also be a possibility.

Edited:

You are somewhat correct,sir. Also, Big Eyes Small Mouth did the same thing. They were D20 OGL products. However, both of them did include artwork, some of which included skimpy-cladded female forms, just in black and white. The same company (Guardians of Order) produced both of these games. So, I stand corrected, there is a game company that did something similar to this. They are no longer in business, but they did do this and did exist for awhile.

Paizo books without the art would still be monstrously large, comparitively speaking. BESM and SAG were reduced to under 100 pages. Binding changes after that, and with it, the costs of binding changes.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Zombieneighbours wrote:
Are you seriously saying that you uncomfortable with you children realising that humans are sexually dimorphic and seeing non-explicit images that demonstrate a range of appearances and clothing types amongst females without judgement about them, but that at the same time you are cool with them playing a game about murdering sentient creatures for profit?

This is precisely the conversation we do not need to be having here.

I do like the suggestion for Mouseguard though. Those micies are CUTE!


Gary Teter wrote:


I do like the suggestion for Mouseguard though. Those micies are CUTE!

Gary, as a representative of Paizo, could you tell us when we can expect to see new work by Mr. Dore showing up in Paizo products?


Gary Teter wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
Are you seriously saying that you uncomfortable with you children realising that humans are sexually dimorphic and seeing non-explicit images that demonstrate a range of appearances and clothing types amongst females without judgement about them, but that at the same time you are cool with them playing a game about murdering sentient creatures for profit?

This is precisely the conversation we do not need to be having here.

I do like the suggestion for Mouseguard though. Those micies are CUTE!

Yes, the mice are cute. And its is a solid little game too.

Regarding the rest. OP did chooses to raise the issue in public. I am inclined to thing that in doing so he is laying himself open to criticism for his position, and position isn't exactly consistent in my opinion, but I'll save further comment on it, because of your request.

Dark Archive

If you must censor the images, I would use book covers and a fat graffiti marker, like this: http://artprimo.com/catalog/molotow-markers-wide-markers-c-28_37_181.html

Just make sure it doesn't bleed through.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dark_Mistress wrote:
0gre wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Kaiyanwang wrote:

I have a similar problem with Paul Gustave Doré. I found his Andromeda too naked.

No, wait..

Might want to add a NSFW warning. Same for Ogre. Better safe than sorry for those that might click the links.
Ack. Sorry about that.
No problem, it didn't bother me. But it could be a issue for some if they opened it at work. :)

The big issue would be if I found out my boss had a Mammy Graul fetish...

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Celestial Healer wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
0gre wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Kaiyanwang wrote:

I have a similar problem with Paul Gustave Doré. I found his Andromeda too naked.

No, wait..

Might want to add a NSFW warning. Same for Ogre. Better safe than sorry for those that might click the links.
Ack. Sorry about that.
No problem, it didn't bother me. But it could be a issue for some if they opened it at work. :)
The big issue would be if I found out my boss had a Mammy Graul fetish...

Or invite you over for dinner so you could discuss you shared interest in art. :)

Shadow Lodge

Celestial Healer wrote:
The big issue would be if I found out my boss had a Mammy Graul fetish...

***CRINGE!!!****

Dark_Mistress wrote:


Or invite you over for dinner so you could discuss you shared interest in art. :)

***Double CRINGE!!!****


I think we're all getting sidetracked from what's really important here and that is Paizo's depiction of women in their products. My wife and I will soon be raising a family and I have to say I'm a bit put off by the depiction of women and the complete lack of traditional gender roles.

So unless Seoni learns to cover up, tie on an apron and quits gallivanting about Golarion, it's no dice (literally) for my future brood!

Next thing you'll be trying to convince me Seelah is questing for suffrage.

Liberty's Edge

Doug OBrien wrote:

I think we're all getting sidetracked from what's really important here and that is Paizo's depiction of women in their products. My wife and I will soon be raising a family and I have to say I'm a bit put off by the depiction of women and the complete lack of traditional gender roles.

So unless Seoni learns to cover up, tie on an apron and quits gallivanting about Golarion, it's no dice (literally) for my future brood!

Next thing you'll be trying to convince me Seelah is questing for suffrage.

Hey, we're recruiting!

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Haven't those women suffraged enough? Why do you want to heap more on them?


Doug OBrien wrote:

I think we're all getting sidetracked from what's really important here and that is Paizo's depiction of women in their products. My wife and I will soon be raising a family and I have to say I'm a bit put off by the depiction of women and the complete lack of traditional gender roles.

So unless Seoni learns to cover up, tie on an apron and quits gallivanting about Golarion, it's no dice (literally) for my future brood!

Next thing you'll be trying to convince me Seelah is questing for suffrage.

Erastil is the god for you. Really though the iconic like the PC's are Adventures they are not Dick and Jane, farmers or shop keepers.


@Doug OBrien: I don't think you need to worry too much about Seelah and the suffrage issue. Most of the places she works do not have elected governments (typically some sort of monarchy, dictatorship, theocracy, or a good old-fashioned and wholesome tyranny.)

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Doug OBrien wrote:

I think we're all getting sidetracked from what's really important here and that is Paizo's depiction of women in their products. My wife and I will soon be raising a family and I have to say I'm a bit put off by the depiction of women and the complete lack of traditional gender roles.

So unless Seoni learns to cover up, tie on an apron and quits gallivanting about Golarion, it's no dice (literally) for my future brood!

Next thing you'll be trying to convince me Seelah is questing for suffrage.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Either way, I'd like to remind everyone of the point Gary made at the beginning of the thread:

Gary Teter wrote:
I'm not really qualified to comment on what products we do or do not publish, but I would like to request that this thread not turn into one of those several-hundred-post pile-on/flamewars about sexuality, modesty, morality or the way people choose to raise their own children.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

The solution is simple. Don't show the book to your players. As beginners, they don't need to know the rules. Additionally, Paizo's Beginner's Box is going to be more newbie friendly.

Otherwise, I would prefer you talking to your family first. Trying to hide anything, or being overly protective, is likely to result in more damage in the long run.

Three, Seoni is not someone you can hug in real life (bar, possibly meeting Jenny Poussin in person). And in game she would fry you hindquarters for trying to tell her how to dress (or, alternatively, pat you on your back, and use polymorph and leash).

Obligatory disclaimer:
Taking pen or marker to book or otherwise censoring the content is an abhorrent concept to me.

Regards,
Ruemere

Sovereign Court

<snipped a long post I probably would regret later>

To the OP, it's your copy of the book, do with it what you will, though I would recommend the additive methods recommended (photocopy, edit the photocopy and cover using a page holder) rather than subtractive (the magic marker route). At the very least, you retain the ability to sell it at some point if you decide to. Also, welcome to the game; hope you and your family enjoy it.

To folks who seem to have taken offense to a reasonable question, stop, take a breath, accept it was indeed an innocent question and move on. Posting anything that is accusatory/attacking/judgmental re: the OP or those who have a similar viewpoint does nothing to put gamers into a positive light.

As a disclaimer, I have no issue personally with the artwork, but I do know some folks who probably would. Everyone has a different view on topics along these lines. That's the way life is. You either accept that fact or you will drive yourself nuts.


Wow.... amazing how threads like these just explode O.o

Pathfinder at it's core... is a game system. Scantily clad women are NOT a core concept/requirement for all pathfinder fans to either accept, or find a new game...

Pathfinder... is also not particularly 'violent'. There are no critical hit rules that that involve dismembering or chaotic blood and guts... it's really rather tame RAW.

RPGs (and Pathfinder included) is about simulating fantasy movies and books for your own characters in your own home... no more. No less. Those adventures/stories can be rated anywhere from PG to NC-17... but that's DM's perogative. There are books and movies that cover the whole spectrum there...

Considering all the electronic formats people want now days... and the fact that paizo ALREADY sells in both Print and PDF... wondering if there is a text only option hardly seemed to warrant the pile on that happened here...

Personally... I don't see the artwork as overly sexy or scandalous in Pathfinder... but World of Darkness books... THOSE are chock full of graphic nudity and prolific swearing... Which doesn't add ANYTHING to the rules or gameplay that I bought them for.

If they offered PG versions of THOSE I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
phantom1592 wrote:


Personally... I don't see the artwork as overly sexy or scandalous in Pathfinder... but World of Darkness books... THOSE are chock full of graphic nudity and prolific swearing... Which doesn't add ANYTHING to the rules or gameplay that I bought them for.

If they offered PG versions of THOSE I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

Violence, sex, violent sex and sexy violence are all Core Concepts of WoD. It's part of the "gothic punk" mentality of those games. I can't imagine a "sanitized" Vampire or Werewolf. It just wouldn't be the same game.


phantom1592 wrote:

Wow.... amazing how threads like these just explode O.o

Pathfinder at it's core... is a game system. Scantily clad women are NOT a core concept/requirement for all pathfinder fans to either accept, or find a new game...

Pathfinder... is also not particularly 'violent'. There are no critical hit rules that that involve dismembering or chaotic blood and guts... it's really rather tame RAW.

RPGs (and Pathfinder included) is about simulating fantasy movies and books for your own characters in your own home... no more. No less. Those adventures/stories can be rated anywhere from PG to NC-17... but that's DM's perogative. There are books and movies that cover the whole spectrum there...

Considering all the electronic formats people want now days... and the fact that paizo ALREADY sells in both Print and PDF... wondering if there is a text only option hardly seemed to warrant the pile on that happened here...

Personally... I don't see the artwork as overly sexy or scandalous in Pathfinder... but World of Darkness books... THOSE are chock full of graphic nudity and prolific swearing... Which doesn't add ANYTHING to the rules or gameplay that I bought them for.

If they offered PG versions of THOSE I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

yeah thanks for all your comments, the one bone i want to pick is that i have no problem with pathfinder as a core system not to violent or anything i think that got put out there at some point. it is like the genre of fantasy in general not all fantasy is harry potter(thank goodness) and not all fantasy is like heavy metal it can be what ever you want it to be. just wanted different book covers not a bunch of people assuming stuff about me, am i devilishly handsome? yes! assume that all the way to the bank. but not the other stuff. ie i am hiding sex form my kids, in denial about sex, i am a bad parent for not viewing naked women , i don't enjoy ballroom dancing ect. again devilishly handsome yes every thing else no.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
phantom1592 wrote:
Pathfinder... is also not particularly 'violent'.

??????????????????????????????????

There are hundreds of pages of rules detailing ways in which to maim, poison, burn up, or kill people. There is 1 page of rules detailing ways in which to settle your differences by talking nicely to each other.

Maybe our definition of "violent" is radically and fundamentally different? To me, a nonviolent game would have adventures in which no one dies, and "everyone wins" scenarios as the default. Pathfinder, in contrast, has adventures in which it is assumed that 90% of the sentient beings the PCs meet will be butchered by them.

I consider hacking people to death with swords and axes to be "violent."
I consider burning people to husks with a fireball to be "violent."
I consider poisoning people to be "violent."
Maybe I'm crazy?


Gorbacz wrote:
Violence, sex, violent sex and sexy violence are all Core Concepts of WoD. It's part of the "gothic punk" mentality of those games. I can't imagine a "sanitized" Vampire or Werewolf. It just wouldn't be the same game.

Difference in opinion.

I see the core concept to be 'horror.' And of course 'Modern.' I see it as existing to help simulate movies that are dark and mysterious and involving monsters, possibly/preferably in a relatable 'real world' setting.

When i want to live in 'middle earth' I play D&D and pathfinder... but when I'm interested in movies/shows like X-files, Supernatural, Buffy, Dresdan, Lost boys, Fright Night or any of a hundred other supernatural/monster based... i switch over to WoD.

I LOVE horror and supernatural concepts... but having large pictures of bare-breasted crack whores wallowing in blood... does NOT add to the mood for me.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
Pathfinder... is also not particularly 'violent'.

??????????????????????????????????

There are hundreds of pages of rules detailing ways in which to maim, poison, burn up, or kill people. There is 1 page of rules detailing ways in which to settle your differences by talking nicely to each other.

Maybe our definition of "violent" is radically and fundamentally different? To me, a nonviolent game would have adventures in which no one dies, and "everyone wins" scenarios as the default. Pathfinder, in contrast, has adventures in which it is assumed that 90% of the sentient beings the PCs meet will be butchered by them.

I consider hacking people to death with swords and axes to be "violent."
I consider burning people to husks with a fireball to be "violent."
I consider poisoning people to be "violent."
Maybe I'm crazy?

Different levels of violence. There are hundreds of pages of rules detailing how to get someones hit points from 105 down to -15.

How many pages are there detailing the mechanical rules for ripping an arm off or strangling people with their own entrails?

There are plenty of 'violence' involving swords and axes... that are Still in the PG area.


phantom1592 wrote:

Different levels of violence. There are hundreds of pages of rules detailing how to get someones hit points from 105 down to -15.

How many pages are there detailing the mechanical rules for ripping an arm off or strangling people with their own entrails?

There are plenty of 'violence' involving swords and axes... that are Still in the PG area.

You seem to be confusing "violence" with "gore." If you smother someone to death with a pillow, they don't bleed too much -- but you have still committed an extreme act of violence against that person. It just isn't particularly gruesome-looking.

By your standards, smothering one's spouse should be legal, but accidentally giving yourself a minor cut that bleeds a lot should put you in prison for life. Surgery to remove a tumor is gory -- but most people wouldn't call it "overly violent."


Kirth Gersen wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
Pathfinder... is also not particularly 'violent'.

??????????????????????????????????

There are hundreds of pages of rules detailing ways in which to maim, poison, burn up, or kill people. There is 1 page of rules detailing ways in which to settle your differences by talking nicely to each other.

Maybe our definition of "violent" is radically and fundamentally different? To me, a nonviolent game would have adventures in which no one dies, and "everyone wins" scenarios as the default. Pathfinder, in contrast, has adventures in which it is assumed that 90% of the sentient beings the PCs meet will be butchered by them.

I consider hacking people to deth with swords and axes to be "violent."
I consider burning people to husks with a fireball to be "violent."
I consider poisoning people to be "violent."
Maybe I'm crazy?

i guess maybe i am not being clear or maybe my mind is tired, by what you describe above is not part of the core rulebook that i can find though i get your point.

a long sword does 1d8 damage it is up to you as a dm to describe it any way you see fit. just like not every movie with a dragon in it has a dragon eating kids or burning down a village. conflict is a part of life not to get to existential on you. so using pathfinder you can describe it any way you want we all have the number guy in our groups who just says "I hit for 24 damage" and we have the descriptive dm who says" the longsword pierces the vertebrata of your foe he gasps his last breath as he stares into your eyes you see a tear for his kids who will now not know the love of a father" it is up to you. am I making my self understood? also i only have a one year old and a wife at this point. so the book covers are really for me and her now so she can get started because we know "a couple who games together stays together"
i do think it is funny that people are assuming a bunch of things about me. and i am not offended just perplexed that it is such a big deal. it i s not like i am arguing that the monk is NOT A MAD class or just as good as a fighter.

EDIT: and it takes me like 6 minutes to type a replay while like 30 people respond sorry about that


Lobolusk wrote:

i guess maybe i am not being clear or maybe my mind is tired, by what you describe above is not part of the core rulebook that i can find though i get your point.

a long sword does 1d8 damage it is up to you as a dm to describe it any way you see fit. just like not every movie with a dragon in it has a dragon eating kids or burning down a village. conflict is a part of life not to get to existential on you. so using pathfinder you can describe it any way you want we all have the number guy in our groups who just says "I hit for 24 damage" and we have the descriptive dm who says" the longsword pierces the vertebrata of your foe he gasps his last breath as he stares into your eyes you see a tear for his kids who will now not know the love of a father" it is up to you. am I making my self understood? also i only have a one year old and a wife at this point. so the book covers are really for me and her now so she can get started because we know "a couple who games together stays together"
i do think it is funny that people are assuming a bunch of things about me. and i am not offended just perplexed that it is such a big...

Again, you're conflating "violence" with "gore." Look up the two words, if it helps; they are in no way synonymous. Then, if you read the Pathfinder rules, you'll see that the 1d8 damage is leading to a condition called "dying," and, ultimately, "dead." Killing people, using a sword to do so, is generally considered "violent," even if you hide the blood behind a bunch of numbers.

What you're suggesting would lead to an interesting spate of criminal trials:

Cop: "Did you commit an act of violence against that man?"
Perp: "Not at all! In no way! I merely caused him to gain the "dying" condition by inflicting "damage points" on him with my machete. As long as you don't show the jury any blood, there's no violence at all!
Cop: "Oh! Well, no problem then! Carry on!"


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:

i guess maybe i am not being clear or maybe my mind is tired, by what you describe above is not part of the core rulebook that i can find though i get your point.

a long sword does 1d8 damage it is up to you as a dm to describe it any way you see fit. just like not every movie with a dragon in it has a dragon eating kids or burning down a village. conflict is a part of life not to get to existential on you. so using pathfinder you can describe it any way you want we all have the number guy in our groups who just says "I hit for 24 damage" and we have the descriptive dm who says" the longsword pierces the vertebrata of your foe he gasps his last breath as he stares into your eyes you see a tear for his kids who will now not know the love of a father" it is up to you. am I making my self understood? also i only have a one year old and a wife at this point. so the book covers are really for me and her now so she can get started because we know "a couple who games together stays together"
i do think it is funny that people are assuming a bunch of things about me. and i am not offended just perplexed that it is such a big...
Again, you're conflating "gore" with "violent." If you read the rules, the 1d8 damage is leading to a condition called "dying," and, ultimately, "dead." Killing people, using a sword to do so, is generally considered "violent," even if you hide the blood behind a bunch of numbers.

well i guess if you see it that way i understand i disagree. like i said conflict is a part of life and every little boy that i knew growing up played chuck norris or ninja or (yes i am old. almost every good story has "as you put it violence" in it. oh so i get where you are going why deny violence is right in front of me, then why would i deny sex is right in front of me. i think that is a pretty narrow view i see it liek this

1. sex is natural and beautiful it is a thing that creates life and is a privileged given to people. it is a part of life it is how we teach our kids about it and react to it is important
2. violence/conflict is natural and a part of life it is how we teach our kids to deal with it that is important.

not if this is bad what do you say .......crap i am arguing on an internet forum next some body will bring hitler and this awful cliche will be complete.

edit: i am out! peace


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I should also mention that I don't automatically equate "nudity" with "sex," but that might put me in a minority. When I get into the shower, I don't actually wear any clothes, but my purpose has nothing to do with any kind of fetish, and more to do with getting clean.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
You seem to be confusing "violence" with "gore." If you smother someone to death with a pillow, they don't bleed too much -- but you have still committed an extreme act of violence against that person. It just isn't particularly gruesome-looking.

I think we definitely have a difference of opinion about the definition of violence.

Yes... Killing people is violent... but that doesn't really make it a 'violent game'

By your definition, I get the feeling that you would rank Super mario bros. as just as violent (if less gory) then mortal kombat.

After all... the plumber constantly bashes people with his brick breaking fists... Stomps his enemies to death... and occasionally beats creatures to death with their own shells...

But personally, I don't see that as a violent game either.

Kirth Gersen wrote:


By your standards, smothering one's spouse should be legal, but accidentally giving yourself a minor cut that bleeds a lot should put you in prison for life. Surgery to remove a tumor is gory -- but most people wouldn't call it "overly violent."

I... i don't even know what to say to this.


Good morning from the UK, Lobolusk. (At time of posting between 01:00 and 02:00 over here...)
I took the liberty of glancing over your posting history, and I note that you seem to be relatively new around here (or at least as far as making posts go - for all I know you could have been hanging around for months or ears before finally making that first post) and so I'd like to stop by to welcome you to the messageboards. As you can see they get a bit crazy at times, with things going off-topic rather quickly in some threads.
I don't know if Lilith's been past a thread to offer you cookies yet - she used to treat a lot of newcomers to them, but these days she's very busy as she adopted a secret identity of Paizo worker Liz Courts earlier this year.
You've missed PaizoCon [Seattle] for this year, and over here in the UK PaizoCon UK (next week, we have Richard Pett attending!) has a waiting list for vacant places; however I think Paizo are sending a strong presence to GenCon over there in the US (they usually do) and Paizo employees may occasionally pop up at other weird and wonderful conventions.
And of course in a few months time the RPGSuperstar 2012 contest will open for item entries. (I play the deranged scribe for one 'observer' who may well be back for another turn in 2012, after a modestly successful debut in the 2011 contest.)
As a final word of caution, if you haven't seen it anywhere else yet, be careful of using the word 'smurf' in a post as that gets you (unless you're someone like Sebastian, the Bella Sara Superscriber, or Kobold Cleaver who was awarded his own customised smurf) a random smurf image as an avatar for that post.... Even if the identity/alias you're posting under doesn't normally have an avatar.
And it's goodnight from the UK.
:)


smurf that for reals?


Lobolusk wrote:
Species 692, that for reals?

They are a resilient Species


phantom1592 wrote:

By your definition, I get the feeling that you would rank Super mario bros. as just as violent (if less gory) then mortal kombat.

After all... the plumber constantly bashes people with his brick breaking fists... Stomps his enemies to death... and occasionally beats creatures to death with their own shells...

But personally, I don't see that as a violent game either.

If the PURPOSE of the game were to stomp the enemies to death, then, yes, I would view it as extremely violent. However, if I understand it correctly, simply jumping over the critters is generally more efficient than stomping them (I don't know -- I'm not a Super Mario player).

Pathfinder teaches that the default, and best, means for conflict resolution is always through murder. No, it's not gory, but the premise sure as hell is violent.

I still enjoy playing it, but that's because I'm able to understand that the Pathfinder method of conflict resolution and advancement in the world are not meant to be applied to the real world in any way, shape, or form.


Lobolusk wrote:
violence/conflict is natural and a part of life it is how we teach our kids to deal with it that is important.

I agree 100%. I would suggest, however, that Pathfinder is pretty firmly structured so as to teach the lesson that the best way to deal with conflict is by murdering anyone we disagree with. If you change the game so that the best way to deal with conflict is to show someone the error of their ways WITHOUT killing them -- and have it so that you gain treasure and levels by NOT killing people -- then you'd be teaching non-violence. But you'd also not really be playing Pathfinder the way it's written.

I'd submit that the valuable lessons Pathfinder does teach are not ones about how to deal with conflict, but rather ones about how to tell the difference between "real" and "make-believe," and about how a group of people who are loyal to each other can accomplish more than one person alone, and about how there are means of entertainment other than the TV.


Gorbacz wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:


Personally... I don't see the artwork as overly sexy or scandalous in Pathfinder... but World of Darkness books... THOSE are chock full of graphic nudity and prolific swearing... Which doesn't add ANYTHING to the rules or gameplay that I bought them for.

If they offered PG versions of THOSE I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

Violence, sex, violent sex and sexy violence are all Core Concepts of WoD. It's part of the "gothic punk" mentality of those games. I can't imagine a "sanitized" Vampire or Werewolf. It just wouldn't be the same game.

Sanitised WoD? Great! Now I'll have nightmares.

Nosferatu not ridiculing Daeva because the latter want to "f*** the pain away"?

Might as well turn it into WoT (World of Twilight).

:P


phantom1592 wrote:


How many pages are there detailing the mechanical rules for ripping an arm off

Look it up under "disarm"

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

Removed some troll discussion.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
I would suggest, however, that Pathfinder is pretty firmly structured so as to teach the lesson that the best way to deal with conflict is by murdering anyone we disagree with. If you change the game so that the best way to deal with conflict is to show someone the error of their ways WITHOUT killing them -- and have it so that you gain treasure and levels by NOT killing people -- then you'd be teaching non-violence. But you'd also not really be playing Pathfinder the way it's written.

I might be wrong, I don't play PFRPG but instead stick with 3.5. But I was under the impression that PFRPG still had things like disarm, grapple, as well as things like Merciful enhancements for weapons. I guess if those were indeed removed from PFRPG, then the only option left is killing everything you encounter. I mean, you don't even get xp for overcoming challenges anymore, right? Now it is only by killing things I guess.


I don't begrudge anybody their own choices on what their children might see (wives are another story, since one would hope they are consenting adults).

But I also have to wonder if that is meant to say that the rest of us whose wives and children don't mind, and actually like the art, are somehow children of a lesser god?

Kind of comes across as insulting. Well, maybe more like condescending, to those of us who aren't so moved to worry about it. (I'd say pretentious, too, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.)


Bruunwald wrote:

But I also have to wonder if that is meant to say that the rest of us whose wives and children don't mind, and actually like the art, are somehow children of a lesser god?

Kind of comes across as insulting. Well, maybe more like condescending, to those of us who aren't so moved to worry about it. (I'd say pretentious, too, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.)

So if I express an opinion and say that "hey, that's just my opinion, I don't judge" and you don't share my opinion and get offended, doesn't that make you (hypothetical you, mind you) just a wee bit sensitive?

I really don't know what this thread's about. You are all arguing about nonsense.

Liberty's Edge

pres man wrote:
I might be wrong, I don't play PFRPG but instead stick with 3.5. But I was under the impression that PFRPG still had things like disarm, grapple, as well as things like Merciful enhancements for weapons. I guess if those were indeed removed from PFRPG, then the only option left is killing everything you encounter. I mean, you don't even get xp for overcoming challenges anymore, right? Now it is only by killing things I guess.

Still got story awards, fortunately.


Gark the Goblin wrote:
pres man wrote:
I might be wrong, I don't play PFRPG but instead stick with 3.5. But I was under the impression that PFRPG still had things like disarm, grapple, as well as things like Merciful enhancements for weapons. I guess if those were indeed removed from PFRPG, then the only option left is killing everything you encounter. I mean, you don't even get xp for overcoming challenges anymore, right? Now it is only by killing things I guess.
Still got story awards, fortunately.

Oh. *scratches head*

Weird. Wait, the only way to move story forward is by killing things, right?


Bruunwald wrote:

But I also have to wonder if that is meant to say that the rest of us whose wives and children don't mind, and actually like the art, are somehow children of a lesser god?

Kind of comes across as insulting. Well, maybe more like condescending, to those of us who aren't so moved to worry about it. (I'd say pretentious, too, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.)

People as a rule are entirely to PC and thin skinned... or are self conscious about what there own decisions are... If everyone doesn't agree with every thing they think... then they are insulting/pretentious/and condescending...

there are MANY things that I like or want that people don't agree with. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. If I say, I prefer no nudity in my game books... that does NOT mean that people who aren't offended are some kind of degenerates... However, I DO get offended by by people saying it BELONGS there, and to find a different game if I don't like it.

to me, THAT is more condescending and insulting...

I like Country music... Not even the NEWER country music. I'm talking Johhny Cash and Gentleman Jim Reeves... the OLD stuff... Does that mean that I look down on the lifestyles of people who listen to music made in THIS decade...

Sometimes... But it's not a given :P

Likewise, whenever somebody starts a conversation with 'Country music SUCKS...' i don't take offense. i know it's awesome. Obviously this person is ill informed.

My opinion is My opinion, it in no way changes or ridicules YOUR opinion.

I give the OP a lot of credit for the way he phrased the OP. "I don't like the pictures... can I get it without them?"

No disparaging remarks about the people who WANTED them... no petitions to make the 'text only' the ONLY version...

Just looking for a version HE wanted...

101 to 150 of 331 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / General Discussion / Paizo do you offer your rule books without the sexy art? All Messageboards