well finally got the whole thread read...all i can say is ouch do my eyes hurt!
i have a few questions that hasn't been asked and hence answered.
1) i see some references to "unnavigable river-ways". i see in one of the books , cant remember which off the top of my head,that gives a brief rundown of some of the rivers and depths hinting at shallow depths but there is nothing to answer how often there unnavigable or where. I allow locks in my campaign but i wouldn't ask to have a question answered for the sake of a houserule. BUT, i could see this causing issues where PC's want to travel by boat on the river or possibly even ferry armies in the later APS. Any ideas from the developers on how to handle "unnavigable river-ways"? i know there is no clear cut solution so im asking more on opinion than an OFFICIAL clarification. would one point per river hex be too much, or every other hex at some point, or once in 3 hexes?
2)"Once you finish preparing the site, decide which of the
district’s borders are water (in the form of riverbanks,
lakeshores, or seashores) or land."
this hints that cities can only build water borders on the side that borders water such as riverbanks, lakeshores, or seashores. for example, if the PC's build a city at the old staglord fort they could choose to have some districts waters borders on the south, east or west, but not say the north as there is no river or lake front to the north. But this could get very complicated with only partial rivers as you have to figure actually where EACH district is in correlation to the hex, and im not so sure this is how complicated Paizo intended it to work. Or do you just assume PC's designate a water border and the workers build a free canal that connects to a river, lake, or sea? what about towns that hexes have NO water in them? I have seen some mention by other players of waterfronts in say Olegs trading post, yet that hex contains no major water ways. I know Hexes are an abstraction but rivers, lakes, and seas are not abstractions. I could see creeks, brooks, and streams throughout the hex if no water is shown on the map but how do you explain say, a pier working off those?!
Varnhold complicates this matter even more so with its river but all borders being considered land. This implies the players can make actual physical water count as land?
i have a few questions that hasn't been asked and hence answered.1) i see some references to "unnavigable river-ways".
2)"Once you finish preparing the site, decide which of the
district’s borders are water (in the form of riverbanks,
lakeshores, or seashores) or land."
1) There's no "official" ruling, I believe, but it's not unreasonable to add a not inconsiderable amount of time to skirt around a waterfall or something in order to bypass the "unnavigable" part. How much time, or whether it is even possible, I'd leave up to you.
2) It is assumed that there are small rivers or lakes or whatnot in each hex which are not visible on the map itself. This would allow for a city's district to have different borders even if the hex doesn't show "water". Now, I may not allow a Venice-style city in a hills hex, but the rule allows you to design a city regardless of what's shown on the hex itself. Varnhold has a small river bisecting it, but the river doesn't cover an entire district border, which is why it is all land borders.
Hope that helps. :)
The only formally unnavigable waterways I'm aware of are the stretches of the Shrike in the Nomen Heights that have waterfalls. (Probably chunks of all the waterways in the Hooktongue Slough stop and start too much to be used as transport instead of obstacles, but my group's party is only just now going through that area.) Locks on the Shrike would be great, allowing water transport all the way from Restov through the heart of the Kamelands and points south. (Mivon?) This would have a huge impact on trade, allowing bulk cargo to be transported far more easily.
Beyond that, the real block to river travel would be all the bridges - are they automatically built so that boats can pass under them? I'd think such construction would be more expensive than simply spanning the water.
|
If you just 'span the water', every spring would leave your bridges impassable as the flood waters would rise over them. Bridges would have to be built so that they were usable 90% of the year.
Some of the waterways describe low flow crossings where the flow is shallow enough to fjord across. Read the descriptions and make your own judgment.
Here is some of the compiled data H.T.H.Hey Guys,
I read through this post when it was maybe 100 replies long... Is there any kind of summary of unofficial errata posted in here?
Thanks!
I don't believe this has been raised elsewhere but I have a question about magic item generation in the kingdom building rules of Kingmaker. I'm using the Gamemastery Guide random item generation tables for my campaign. Rolling on the minor item table very seldom generates an actual magic item. More often than not a non-magical item is generated that is nowhere near being worth a build point. I realize the intent behind the rules is that not all minor magic items are helpful to a kingdom's economy, but shouldn't the minor items actually be magical? Looking through part 4 and 5 of the AP I also noticed that other settlement statblocks have all magic items in their minor item slots. Which indicates that I might have to adjust the Gamemastery Guide table. I'd just like to know how the devs expected this to be handled?
I'm not complaining though. My players are churning out items at an alarming rate, so a complete dud here and there keeps things slightly reined in :)
|
I don't believe this has been raised elsewhere but I have a question about magic item generation in the kingdom building rules of Kingmaker.
The items are all supposed to be magical, AFAIK. You can use the Random Magic Item Generation table 15-2 in the Core Rulebook (page 461) then either continue using the Core tables or jump back to the GMG as you see fit.
Alternatively use one of the random magic item generators out there to save yourself some time rolling all those dice. Nethys did a cool one which you can find listed on the messageboards somewhere (sorry, don't have the link hand).
Recall also that you're supposed to reroll any random magic items that you generate below the base value of a given town.
Well, at least, you're supposed to do that for "normal" cities - not sure why that would be different in Kingmaker.
I don't believe this has been raised elsewhere but I have a question about magic item generation in the kingdom building rules of Kingmaker.The items are all supposed to be magical, AFAIK. You can use the Random Magic Item Generation table 15-2 in the Core Rulebook (page 461) then either continue using the Core tables or jump back to the GMG as you see fit.
Alternatively use one of the random magic item generators out there to save yourself some time rolling all those dice. Nethys did a cool one which you can find listed on the messageboards somewhere (sorry, don't have the link hand).
Ok, that actually makes more sense, thanks.
Online generators is a good idea but I let the players roll for magic items because it apparently is their favorite part of kingdom building.
|
Recall also that you're supposed to reroll any random magic items that you generate below the base value of a given town.
Well, at least, you're supposed to do that for "normal" cities - not sure why that would be different in Kingmaker.
I'm pretty sure this is different for Kingmaker actually, and that you don't re-roll any items (even ones below the minor limit). That's only for rolling items by the default city rules, which also rolls a larger number of items. Kingmaker uses separate rules and shouldn't be mixed with the normal ones.
Recall also that you're supposed to reroll any random magic items that you generate below the base value of a given town.
Well, at least, you're supposed to do that for "normal" cities - not sure why that would be different in Kingmaker.
If you could do that, wouldn't it make the "Magic Item Economy" even more broken than it is now. Just get the city value up to 4000 and even minor item slots will produce BP every time. This would make the early stages of the MIE quicker, and getting to selling med and major items sooner and more sure.
Recall also that you're supposed to reroll any random magic items that you generate below the base value of a given town.
Well, at least, you're supposed to do that for "normal" cities - not sure why that would be different in Kingmaker.
If you could do that, wouldn't it make the "Magic Item Economy" even more broken than it is now. Just get the city value up to 4000 and even minor item slots will produce BP every time. This would make the early stages of the MIE quicker, and getting to selling med and major items sooner and more sure.
...except that by the time you get up to 4,000 base value, you will more than likely already have a Medium item slot, so it's not really not going to interfere with it at all.
Ya'll do things your way, I don't see why the Kingmaker rules should specifically be different, especially when the whole point of them is to mimic the results of the settlement rules in the Core rulebook.
|
|
Ya'll do things your way, I don't see why the Kingmaker rules should specifically be different, especially when the whole point of them is to mimic the results of the settlement rules in the Core rulebook.
They are specifically different, actually, in terms of the magic items generating BP only. It’s stated so explicitly (emphasis mine):
As with base value, a community’s size does not influence the number of magic items above base value that are available for purchase. Instead, these items become available as certain buildings (like academies or magic shops) are added to a city.
Now, when it comes to whether any other item is available for purchase, then yeah it’s a 75% chance of availability if it’s below the base value, just like any other town.
Ya'll do things your way, I don't see why the Kingmaker rules should specifically be different, especially when the whole point of them is to mimic the results of the settlement rules in the Core rulebook.They are specifically different, actually, in terms of the magic items generating BP only. It’s stated so explicitly (emphasis mine):
As with base value, a community’s size does not influence the number of magic items above base value that are available for purchase. Instead, these items become available as certain buildings (like academies or magic shops) are added to a city.Now, when it comes to whether any other item is available for purchase, then yeah it’s a 75% chance of availability if it’s below the base value, just like any other town.
I understand your argument completely, but what you quote doesn't support what you're suggesting at all. But again, you do what makes you happy.
|
|
I may be misreading the last several posts, but it looks like we’re talking about randomizing magic items due to placing things like casters towers, etc. and selling them during the Income Phase for BP. If this is the case, then per the rules, you do not re-roll these specific items if they are above the base value of the city.
Instead, magic items above the base value of the city can become available because you have placed the specific buildings that allow them to be rolled up, and consequently sold for a BP profit to the kingdom if they are above 4000gp.
Again, this is explicitly spelled out in the rules (see “Building a City” and “Income Phase,” Kingmaker #32 pages 58 and 64).
Now if we’re just talking generically about the availability of any particular given magic item(s) that are not part of the building system, then yeah, the rules also explicitly state that (like any other settlement), they may be available 75% of the time if the value of the item is less than the base value of the city.
I'm not suggesting that it is spelled out in the rules. (If I did, I apologize.) I'm merely saying that the rules in Kingmaker are built to mimic and give the result of the rules in the Core Rulebook. So to me, it seems incongruous not to reroll, say a potion of cure light wounds, in your minor magic item slot if your city's base value is 2,000 gp.
In other words, why would your cities be the only ones in Golarion where the "special" inventory is actually just the regular inventory, sorry, too bad.
|
|
I'm not suggesting that it is spelled out in the rules. (If I did, I apologize.) I'm merely saying that the rules in Kingmaker are built to mimic and give the result of the rules in the Core Rulebook. So to me, it seems incongruous not to reroll, say a potion of cure light wounds, in your minor magic item slot if your city's base value is 2,000 gp.
In other words, why would your cities be the only ones in Golarion where the "special" inventory is actually just the regular inventory, sorry, too bad.
Ahhhh, gotcha.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It has recently occured to me that a good deal of bad things that could happen to kingdoms are trivially avoided once the kingdom stats are up to par with the DC. You end up with situations where PCs can (for example) withdraw lots of BP from their kingdom in the form of cash and only incur the big unrest penalties 5% of the time (which in some cases could cripple the kingdom).
Personally, I don't find it particularly fun to run the kingdom where everything runs smoothly 19 out of every 20 months and in that one month everything goes to hell in a handbasket.
So, I've decided to make a couple small houserules that seem to help matters greatly. Saves made to avoid bad kingdom events do not completely prevent them but instead halve the damage done. If it's an ongoing event, making the save prevents it from reoccuring the next month. I'm also going to be applying this rule to other kingdom based rolls like the withdrawal of money.
While I'm on the topic, I've also reworked one of the standard events: Food shortages now halve the consumption decrease due to farms (or 3/4 if the save is made). This makes a lot more sense than doubling the (usually 0) net consumption of a kingdom.
So, if your kingdom has 30 farms (like ours does), it means your consumption will jump up by 30 for one month on a failed save and by 15 if you make it.
Needless to say, kingdom events continue to be somewhat important even as the kingdom grows beyond the point where the saves are very easy to make.
Here's an addition to those magic items that can be used for the kingdom.
Ring of Three Wishes
This is a Major Item that has a 1% chance of appearing if your kingdom can generate major magic items. If you happen to get your hands on one you can also use it for your kingdom.
A wish can do any of the following:
1)Give an automatic success on a Loyalty, Economy or Stability check .
2)Instantly at no cost take a kingdom action such as preparing a site for a city, creating farmlands, claiming a hex etc.
3)Pay the kingdom 's consumption for 1 month
4)Create an item at no cost. This includes a SINGLE building.
5)Cancel a kingdom event from the event phase
6)Negate the vacancy penalty fro an empty leadership role for 1 month.
Did I forget anything?
Of course if your PCs got a Ring of 3 Wishes they might be better off saving it for Kingmaker Part 6. Timely wishes are certainly helpful.
A whole building seems excessive. The ring sells for 60k (which is 15 BP once the sales are donated to the kingdom). But each wish could build a magic shop, a 68 BP price tag -- and logically, wouldn't take up a build slot.
Also, something I know that I also keep forgetting -- a House is not a House. It's a block of houses. Another reason the ring shouldn't build a magic shop is because that's actually building an entire city block dedicated to magic shops and magic shop-related activities, rather than just one single structure with one owner.
I'd also do a price comparison regarding what Wish can do, but I can't seem to find the part where it talks about creating magic items. Hrm.
So multiple grid cities have additive wall? A 2 grid city would be +8 DM?
And so on.Nope; that gets out of control too fast.
Multiple grids each need their own walls, but a whole city can't get more DM from walls than the basic wall bonus.
THAT SAID, multiple walls CAN help defend inner districts, if you get down to the nitty gritty and track mass combat attacks on a district-by-district basis rather than just a whole city at once.
Ok this seems to not be getting as much attention as it needs too. the whole way it is now just doesn't work and is broken. James, with what you said and from your other posts it even complicates matters worse.
the adventure path states:
City walls do not occupy a city block—rather, purchasing a city wall fortifies one of a district’s four outer borders.
in another post you stated that its NOT one of a districts outer boarders but all of them. you also stated they do NOT stack, fair enough. Your way works fine in a one district city surrounded by land but here's some unsolved issues.
1) Since walls don't stack i assume you buy one and it puts walls on all four sides of that district. Or else there would be no reason to build more walls than one side as the bonuses dont stack, the players will get tricked spending BP for nothing. yeah i know a district by district battle would take this into account, but that forces GM's to run a battle like that or players are going to feel sorely cheated when it never comes up. Being the GM if i tell the players that's what multiple walls are for then never have that issue come up i will feel i purposely mislead them and will lose respect.
2)If it adds walls to all the borders of a district what happens when a district has one water boarder? Water borders can't have walls. so if walls provide +4 defense but you have one side that is water does that mean that the defense is only +3? would walls cost 6 BP? i think this over complicates walls and would just be easy to say-yes you can have walls on a water border. after all if the walls still cost the same and give the same bonus even if one side is water, it's basically counting that water border as a having a wall anyway...
3) If walls don't stack like you stated (i agree BTW the defense bonus would get stupid)there's no point in building walls around a whole city that contains multiple districts as it would cost BP for no benefit but fluff. So you would have a 4 district city with one district containing walls have the same defense as a one district city with walls all around the city. This is kind of silly. It would be better to allow walls to stack to a point. i will address the latter later on in my rewrite on walls...
4) say the players build walls around there first district and eventually enclose this district by adding more districts to the city. Your method has the added benefit ,since walls don't stack, that the city would be just as defended not building any walls on the new districts that are exposed to outside attack. but, does this make any sense?
i came up with a solution but it's a total rewrite on walls. I know it's often impossible to make rules calls and anticipate everything it may effect like the above mentioned issues. But i think this covers most the problems and i would be interested in hearing your feedback and other GM's as well.
REVISED City walls-
City Wall (6 BP): City walls do not occupy a city block— rather, purchasing a city wall fortifies one of a district’s four outer borders. A city wall cannot be built on a water border. City walls stack with other city walls that are built along the outside perimeter of a city, IE interior walls do not add to a cities total defense. An exception to this rule is a district that contains water borders. In cases such as this, a districts land boarders may contain walls that add to the cities total defense but only if the walls are not adjacent to another wall. This however leaves that particular district isolated and exposed to possible attack. There may be times when a city that contains multiple districts has only one district fall under attack. If a district is attacked in this manor It counts only the modifiers from the city walls contained within that particular district to it's defenses,it still gains other defensive modifiers from the city however.
City walls can be turned back into BP equal to half the BP to build them. Doing so still takes the same amount of time as building them and adds 1 unrest.
Defense Modifier +1; Unrest –1.
This solves a lot of issues for me. Letting walls stack but only the BIG walls around the city. Explains to players that districts can possibly be singled out and that interior walls have uses. If the kingdom finds there walls not needed, the raw materials can be recycled for other buildings and covers the labor costs to do so. notice i also broke down the bonus per side instead of adding the bonus of 4 walls. while the cost is steeper its still a fair trade as city walls don't use up district space, cheaper decrease to unrest, and now can stack if implemented right. Of course this also changes it back to possibly only building a wall on one side or having an intermittent city wall. while some stated this doesn't make sense it actually DOES. It takes time to build walls around a city. if your city is attacked and you have only 2 sides walled sure the enemy is going to go around them but maybe that's why they attacked in the first place. "hey there building walls in Avandar and are half complete-WE SHOULD STRIKE NOW WHILE WE HAVE THE CHANCE!" also cities often ran out of money constructing city improvements. Third walls do more than keep people out. They provide vision and a place for archers to be safe from solders and bring down the arrows. lastly in a fantasy game there could be tactical advantages, you have to kill the enemy eventually. if you have One district without an outer wall then it's pretty safe to say that's were the enemy is going to attack. Once they enter the city they find themselves attacked from three sides, that's were all the barracks and solders are at and the area is laded with magical traps!
i know some will have issues with attacking a single district and bypassing a cities walls total bonus but the GM has the call when to allow such a thing since James did point out its possible. obviously if the district is contained within the cities wall perimeter then no you shouldn't be able to bypass all the cities wall bonus by attacking a district. But in cases were an army infiltrated, teleported, flew in, attacked the port etc I now have a way to run that. also those would be Mass combat rulings and not included in the City Walls for that very reason.
Cheers
For my game, City Walls are built per district border, and give the defense modifier *for the district* In practice, this makes it much more difficult to defend a large city with city walls, but that seems logical to me. If you put up walls, then add a new district, then you've outgrown your walls.
It's likely in this case that an enemy will attack in your least well defended spot, but there are other buildings that will affect the Defense of an entire city. Once your city reaches its full size, you can add walls to all of the 'outer' districts in order to get the maximum benefit.
A whole building seems excessive. The ring sells for 60k (which is 15 BP once the sales are donated to the kingdom). But each wish could build a magic shop, a 68 BP price tag -- and logically, wouldn't take up a build slot.
Also, something I know that I also keep forgetting -- a House is not a House. It's a block of houses. Another reason the ring shouldn't build a magic shop is because that's actually building an entire city block dedicated to magic shops and magic shop-related activities, rather than just one single structure with one owner.
I'd also do a price comparison regarding what Wish can do, but I can't seem to find the part where it talks about creating magic items. Hrm.
Whoops! Incomplete version of item #4. It should have read:
4)Create an item at no cost of up to 20,000gp value instantly. This includes a SINGLE building of up to 10BP. You can use multiple wishes to create more valuable items. E.g. using 3 wishes you can create an item up to 60,000gp in value or a building of up to 30BP.The single building doesn't necessarily refer to a literal single building but rather a single building in Kingmaker terms. So if you use a wish to create a Houses(3BP)you get a single House (in Kingmaker terms) worth 3BP not a set of three totaling 9BP.Basically we're referring to the abstract game structure rather than a literal single structure.
I hope this clarifies things.
Why do cities you build in Kingmaker have a GP limit of 16,000gp when there are cities in other published Pathfinder products have far higher limits?
Pardon my asking, but have any reasons been given for why a Mansion costs 10 Build Points but only gives a +1 to Stability? That seems like an awfully high BP cost for what is effectively a very small benefit.
Should I lower the cost, change the benefits it grants, or just leave it be?
Pardon my asking, but have any reasons been given for why a Mansion costs 10 Build Points but only gives a +1 to Stability? That seems like an awfully high BP cost for what is effectively a very small benefit.
Should I lower the cost, change the benefits it grants, or just leave it be?
Hi Eric,
you are right. The costs of q mansion look too for a +1 modifier. On the other hand you can cut down the cost to half by building a Noble Villa in your City and it is more appropriate to have mansions for your richer people in your cities than "simple" houses.
:D
Pardon my asking, but have any reasons been given for why a Mansion costs 10 Build Points but only gives a +1 to Stability? That seems like an awfully high BP cost for what is effectively a very small benefit.
Should I lower the cost, change the benefits it grants, or just leave it be?
Hi Eric,
you are right. The costs of q mansion look too for a +1 modifier. On the other hand you can cut down the cost to half by building a Noble Villa in your City and it is more appropriate to have mansions for your richer people in your cities than "simple" houses.
:D
In my games, I've allowed Mansions to count as Houses for purposes of fulfilling "building must be adjacent to a house" requirements for this very reason.
|
|
In my games, I've allowed Mansions to count as Houses for purposes of fulfilling "building must be adjacent to a house" requirements for this very reason.Pardon my asking, but have any reasons been given for why a Mansion costs 10 Build Points but only gives a +1 to Stability? That seems like an awfully high BP cost for what is effectively a very small benefit.
Should I lower the cost, change the benefits it grants, or just leave it be?
Hi Eric,
you are right. The costs of q mansion look too for a +1 modifier. On the other hand you can cut down the cost to half by building a Noble Villa in your City and it is more appropriate to have mansions for your richer people in your cities than "simple" houses.
:D
Same.
Hargor, Archmage_Atrus, and Mister Kilcoyne, thank you for the answers. The 'use it like a house for requirements' option sounds best to me.
Hargor, Archmage_Atrus, and Mister Kilcoyne, thank you for the answers. The 'use it like a house for requirements' option sounds best to me.
For my group, the added benefit of Mansions was that they could be used as bartering chips to bring powerful NPCs to town. Be they Swordlords, famous Wizards, etc. If they wanted a hotshot on the town council, they had to build a Mansion for them to live in first.
Fringe benefits baby.
Hargor, Archmage_Atrus, and Mister Kilcoyne, thank you for the answers. The 'use it like a house for requirements' option sounds best to me.For my group, the added benefit of Mansions was that they could be used as bartering chips to bring powerful NPCs to town. Be they Swordlords, famous Wizards, etc. If they wanted a hotshot on the town council, they had to build a Mansion for them to live in first.
Fringe benefits baby.
I've actually used a number of different buildings for similar things. For example, there's a quest in book 2 given to the PCs by an alchemist. If they don't have any city with an alchemist's shop, then they never get that quest (and hence the xp). In my game, there are benefits to having diversity and the players don't know what those benefits might be ahead of time.
I've been thinking of compiling a bigger list of things to "unlock" regarding kingdom building but haven't got around to putting pen to paper. I have a short list of requirements regarding buildings and kingdom size which dictates the size, resources and type of units which are available for armies but I want to extend this to other areas as well.
In particular, I want to have most of the quests which are not part of the main plot tied to something else. For example, the first alchemist shop gives them the associated quest or a mansion gives them the "missing brother" quest from VV. For later books, I may require particular combinations or multiples of a given building: Two mansions and a stable in the same city to get "chasing the wind" quest from BfB.
Hargor, Archmage_Atrus, and Mister Kilcoyne, thank you for the answers. The 'use it like a house for requirements' option sounds best to me.For my group, the added benefit of Mansions was that they could be used as bartering chips to bring powerful NPCs to town. Be they Swordlords, famous Wizards, etc. If they wanted a hotshot on the town council, they had to build a Mansion for them to live in first.
Fringe benefits baby.
Dude, you GOT to give us a detailed list of your houserules for kingdom building. Everything you posted so far sounds awesome.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Overlords Guide to Kingdom Building (Google Docs optimization guide) has now been stable for a month, so it is probably in a reasonable state. The forum discussion thread is here.
Note the google docs optimization guide is up to date and much larger than the forum version.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Overlords Guide to Kingdom Building (Google Docs optimization guide) has now been stable for a month, so it is probably in a reasonable state.
Wow, that's a heck of a document! Some really great stuff in there. I wonder if the author will consider including as optional, the material in Book of the River Nations: Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building. There's some great new material in there that can enhance farms, add more building options, etc.
Ok,
I've read through this tread a few times. A ton of great information here! :)
I'm looking for clarification of my understanding of the rules.
1.) Each time I build a city district I need to clear area in that hex and pay the costs.
2.) Each time I build a new city district, it adds to my consumption.
3.) Building A in city district A provides a reduced cost for building B. Building A only provides that benefit for that particular district, not in the city as a whole.
4.) Basically, the city districts are entities in and of themselves. The fact that they make up a larger city unit is more flavor than game mechanic.
Groggie
1.) Each time I build a city district I need to clear area in that hex and pay the costs.
2.) Each time I build a new city district, it adds to my consumption.
3.) Building A in city district A provides a reduced cost for building B. Building A only provides that benefit for that particular district, not in the city as a whole.
4.) Basically, the city districts are entities in and of themselves. The fact that they make up a larger city unit is more flavor than game mechanic.
As I understand the rules;
1 yes2 Yes
3 No, most such buildings state "in same city"
4 No, the rules say "For larger cities, you can prepare multiple districts sharing common borders."
Now a question comes to mind, could multiple cities exist in the same hex?
Nothing in the rules prevents it. Mechanically, it's inferior to one large city, but for flavour reasons it's certainly doable.
|
You can develop any grassland or hill hex that contains roads into farmlands to help sustain your kingdom’s Consumption. It costs 2 BP to designate a grassland hex as farmland and 4 BP to designate a hill hex as farmland. You cannot build a city on a farmland hex.I would rule that the converse is also true by RAW.
Disclaimer: I actually allow my PCs to build farmlands on city hexes. 12 square miles of land is a lot to cover with just a city, but this is a house rule. It was implemented to give the early kingdom a little bit of a leg up.
Huh, I totally missed that in the rules.
I'm working on a reworking of the kingdom building rules (putting more emphasis on localization, instead of everything being so top-down heavy) and in it I think I'll move farm building to happen prior to city building, so this sort of confusion is avoided.
A city district has a compsuntion of 1 while it can hose up to 9.000 persons.
I would say that the city hex outside the walls is already farmed, and to a higher extent than any farmland hex. (a standard farmland hex has a population of 250)Simply the city hex food production is all absorbed by the city, reducing its level of compsuntion.
|
You can develop any grassland or hill hex that contains roads into farmlands to help sustain your kingdom’s Consumption. It costs 2 BP to designate a grassland hex as farmland and 4 BP to designate a hill hex as farmland. You cannot build a city on a farmland hex.I would rule that the converse is also true by RAW.
Disclaimer: I actually allow my PCs to build farmlands on city hexes. 12 square miles of land is a lot to cover with just a city, but this is a house rule. It was implemented to give the early kingdom a little bit of a leg up.
Huh, I totally missed that in the rules.
I'm working on a reworking of the kingdom building rules (putting more emphasis on localization, instead of everything being so top-down heavy) and in it I think I'll move farm building to happen prior to city building, so this sort of confusion is avoided.
A city district has a compsuntion of 1 while it can hose up to 9.000 persons.
I would say that the city hex outside the walls is already farmed, and to a higher extent than any farmland hex. (a standard farmland hex has a population of 250)
Simply the city hex food production is all absorbed by the city, reducing its level of compsuntion.
Has anyone came up with windmills instead of watermills? Does it have to built on top of something? Windmills have been around almost as long as watermills.
|
|
Has anyone came up with windmills instead of watermills? Does it have to built on top of something? Windmills have been around almost as long as watermills.
AFAIK windmills require a naturally windy area and are more technologically advanced than watermill.
The Kingmaker area is far from the coast were you, generally, get fairly constant winds. I think you can get reasonably constant wind even in earthbound territories with the right climatic conditions but seeing how the Stolend lands are full of waters I think most people would use watermills.
You can build a watermill even if what you have is only a small stream, you only need a small dam and a channel where funnelling the water to run the wheel when needed, so you can build one almost anywhere in the Stolen lands.
The higher tech part can be a problem too, as the area is fairly backwater, but seeing how most of your immigrants will be coming from other lands that will be a minor difficulty.
Has anyone came up with windmills instead of watermills? Does it have to built on top of something? Windmills have been around almost as long as watermills.
AFAIK windmills require a naturally windy area and are more technologically advanced than watermill.
The Kingmaker area is far from the coast were you, generally, get fairly constant winds. I think you can get reasonably constant wind even in earthbound territories with the right climatic conditions but seeing how the Stolend lands are full of waters I think most people would use watermills.
You can build a watermill even if what you have is only a small stream, you only need a small dam and a channel where funnelling the water to run the wheel when needed, so you can build one almost anywhere in the Stolen lands.The higher tech part can be a problem too, as the area is fairly backwater, but seeing how most of your immigrants will be coming from other lands that will be a minor difficulty.
The Kingmaker area isn't far from the coast at all - it's just over the Nomen Hills from the Castrovin Sea in Iobaria. I know that is pretty much off the map for maps of the Inner Sea region, but if you look at the Iobaria map you'll see how close Restov is to the water. There might actually be a good bit of wind coming from the east.
|
|
I live near the geographical center of North America and I can attest to the fact that there are windmills every where. All you need is a high ridge or hill and plains. I wouldn't allow them in a city. The other buildings would block the wind. But maybe you could add them as an outbuilding or something that gives benefits to farmland if added to a farmed hex. Maybe something along the lines of +1 to economy, since they would allow the farmers to grind their feed without having to travel all the way to a city.
|
|
I live near the geographical center of North America and I can attest to the fact that there are windmills every where. All you need is a high ridge or hill and plains. I wouldn't allow them in a city. The other buildings would block the wind. But maybe you could add them as an outbuilding or something that gives benefits to farmland if added to a farmed hex. Maybe something along the lines of +1 to economy, since they would allow the farmers to grind their feed without having to travel all the way to a city.
that sounds awesome, thnx all!
|
|
I live near the geographical center of North America and I can attest to the fact that there are windmills every where. All you need is a high ridge or hill and plains. I wouldn't allow them in a city. The other buildings would block the wind. But maybe you could add them as an outbuilding or something that gives benefits to farmland if added to a farmed hex. Maybe something along the lines of +1 to economy, since they would allow the farmers to grind their feed without having to travel all the way to a city.
Sure. On the other hand in Italy they have been introduced only recently thanks to the new technologies as you don't get much reliable winds.
Probably they will work on the Stolen lands as they are mostly a big plain like most of North America.
Golarion having the tech is a sure thing, but Bevory to me seem like Russia during the Renaissance period. With the exclusion of some city most of it is a underdeveloped backwater where you have to import foreign engineers if you want something build.
BTW: I think it has a climate similar to Russia, too.
Okay, I'm getting in on this late in the game, but my group will be finishing up Stolen Lands in a month or so and I'm just delving into the Kingdom Building rules.
I'm a little stumped by the first round of building. I understand you skip phase I in the first round. This puts you directly into the improvement phase. Step 1 is to choose leadership. Okay so far. Step 2 is to Claim Hexes. You claim a hex by spending 1 BP. Only this is the first hex, so where does this BP come from? Is there a starting amount of BP that comes from Brevoy? Do they start with nothing and have to pony up 4000 GP for each BP until the village produces BP on it's own? What exactly to the PCs get at the beginning to start their kingdom? Where can I find this in RRR?