I'm always hesitant to play a fighter, because even in Pathfinder I find that I don't have any abilities that allow me to perform out of combat. Anyone have any solutions to shore up a fighter's usefulness out of combat? Any feats that might allow some utility?
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What a fighter does out of combat? Prepare for the next combat.
There aren't really a lot of feats that give you some utility. Go for skills instead. Maybe Skill Focus to make your skills better. Raise any attributes beside Str/Dex/Con.
Are you looking for things for a fighter to do during a game session when there is no combat going on or for things for a fighter to do in between game sessions, like a day job?
Sharpen their sword?
If you go human and use favored class skill points instead of hit points you are getting 4 skill points per level. Make sure you get all your class skills trained (sure you'll lag behind because you aren't pumping up every skill every level but lets be honest you don't need to pump swim and climb every level).
Add in a higher than average intelligence and you are getting a decent number of skill points per level. You are no means a skill monkey but honestly that's not your role unless you multiclass rogue occasionally.
I'm also a big fan of pumping up all the classes to more skillpoints per level (it's not that game breaking) but you generally need to give the skill monkey classes some sort of benefit to compensate for their lost "advantage" be it a few bonus feats or what not.
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Question: "What do Fighters contribute outside of combat?"
Answer: "Almost nothing".
You can RP, of course, and if you are willing to sacrifice combat effectiveness you can nab some skills, but really, there's pretty much nothing for Fighters to do outside combat.
Every other class in the game has ways they can contribute outside of combat. Fighters do not.
This is the cost of a Fighter's combat ability. Properly constructed, a Fighter is the hands down undisputed master of combat - he can deal more damage per round than any other class and maintain a very nice AC at the same time. Throw in Iron Will, a cloak of resistance, and a non-negative wisdom modifier, and there's not a whole lot that can really bring them down, except for massive amounts of damage or creative terrain.
Fighters fight better than any other class in the game, because that's all they do. This is both good and bad, as you are discovering.
Aside from the skills discussion, a fighter has a lot of feats to spare, so could be a magic item crafter if you wanted him to be.
Fighters fight. It is what they do, it's all they do. It is unfortunate and it means in a mechanical roleplay heavy game (meaning your dm has you roll alot of dice outside of combat) a fighter is a poor choice. Sure you can give him skills, even crossclass skills, but it would likely be at the cost of some of his fighting ability, and at that point... why not pick a different class already geared towards a mix? Barbarian and Paladin are both better choices in that regard.
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There is no reason why you need anything more than good roleplaying skills to have plenty to do outside of combat. Likewise, an above average Int, being human, and favored class skill point boosts can give you a half-dozen or more skill points per level. Throw in a "booster" feat (like Alertness) and you can be quite good at something else besides combat. All "Class Skill" gets you is +3, you can do quite well without it.
Or get a decent Charaisma and take the Leadership feat. Now you not only can be an aspiring general, you can role play TWO characters, so something good outside of combat is twice as likely.
Honestly, we had a character play a "knight" (fighter with decent Int and Chr) and he had no problems whatsoever being a party leader and a mover and a shaker outside of combat. I honestly don't see where the problem lies.
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On paper, throwing skill points into things like Diplomacy, Disable Device and Knowledge isn't necessarily going to take away from the fighter's combat ability (Knowledge might actually enhance it,) but you're rarely going to be as good or better than a character with those as class skills. Going with what you have to pick from, Handle Animal lets you train animals for many different purposes from carrying gear to delivering messages. You can even train some animals to steal for you. Survival lets you track, find food and shelter and, if your DM uses the rules for getting lost, helps you find your way to your destination. As Loopy mentioned, you can also take the Master Craftsman feat if you want to be able to create magic arms and armor.
But yeah, all that RP stuff that's already been mentioned is probably your best bet.
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Ale & Wenches. Next question.
Long answer: Fighters don't have many game term abilities outside of straight combat. Although, as some said before, you never had it that good regarding skills (no cross-class skills, favored class).
The general question, before I wax poetic about role-playing, is: What do you mean "out of combat"? What would the other classes do? Are we talking about "down-time" role-playing or more adventure-oriented stuff like scouting, disabling traps, information gathering? If it's the latter, he might have one or two skills that other players don't have, if the party is set up a certain way, but even that isn't that likely.
Generally there's still a lot of stuff that the rules don't cover, and because the mindset of both the player and the character usually fits, Fighters make great party leaders. Rogues and paladins might be more "shiny", but no one trusts either of them when it comes to straight-forward strategy and survival.
If all that fails, do something for your tan. All those hours in the Crypts of Sheer and Utter Madness aren't good for your complexion.
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Maybe he really means things like finding traps or teleporting or whatever. Either way, although the only utility a Fighter gets is from what you choose in skills and feats... look on the bright side... the only utility you HAVE to do is what you get from your skills and feats. Heh heh heh.
"Transportation to the dungeon? Trapfinding? Heh, not my job, bro. Fighters' Guild Local 329."
As one of the characters with a good strength score, fighters have the ability to carry a decent amount of gear. In any game where encumbrance is treated seriously, they're the ones with the cool items others would like to carry but can't.
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They "fight" boredom. (get it? they fight it cuz they're fighters)
Fighters over age 21 have also been known to go on beer runs and food runs when not in combat.
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Use the Martial Academy Training class variant from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. For the cost of the fighter's bonus 1st level feat, you get:
Class Skills (in addition to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
If fighters got non-option out-of-combat abilities - wouldn't that be false advertising? :P
They "fight" boredom. (get it? they fight it cuz they're fighters)
A well-rounded humour ;-P
Fighters over age 21 have also been known to go on beer runs and food runs when not in combat.
21? What are they? Choir boys living in some draconic society? They're often allowed to do their beer runs at 18 or even 16 - and what a wuss of a fighter obeys to stuff like that?
I agree with Ale, Wenches and Maintaining Weapons & Armor...
I'll add training and instigate more fighting. :)
Or perhaps some sort of craft? Basket Weaving FTW!
Maybe spending time with friends and/or family?
Buy a pet to keep himself/herself company?
Sit in a dark corner, balled up and rocking due to the madness of NOTHING TO DO!
Use the Martial Academy Training class variant from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.
Agrees with this. If you want a 'skilled' fighter which is what I like to use when I have the option of playing Fighters it is well worth it, and under Pathfinder even more so. Although they don't get Know(engi) as they already have it in Pathfinder.
Useful Skills that are fun out of combat (and sometimes in):
Handle Animal (get a pack of hunting dogs, always fun to let them loose at parties. Even if not trained well you can still Push them if your skilled enough.)
Knowledge (Engineering) (you building buildings and learn how to knock them down, how is this not fun?)
Survival (if no one else has it, consider it as you get track to boot)
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What do fighters do out of combat?
They shag the priestess.
Or the sorceress.Or both.
What do fighers do out of combat?
Well they have skills: They order the rogue/bard to find out this or that. To get this or that ... if they cant aford it:)
They have spells: They order the Priest/wizard to find out this or that and make them X number of items like potions or cure wounds or potions of spider climb
They eveny role play: Haggling with DM over prices, buying supplies, hunt down what the next adventure will be.
Every party i have every played with, the figher has taken over the leadership role, and is the Man in Charge.
So the question should be.... what does a fighter not do Out of Combat.
What do fighters do out of combat?They shag the priestess.
Or the sorceress.
Or both.
yes... and that too.... the lucky bugger.
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Use the Martial Academy Training class variant from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. For the cost of the fighter's bonus 1st level feat, you get:
Class Skills (in addition to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
These rules are 3.5, so you'll have to update them to PF, but still a very good choice.
Also consider craft: alchemy. It's a class skill that give the fighter a really interesting conceptual twist.
Fighters over age 21 have also been known to go on beer runs and food runs when not in combat.21? What are they? Choir boys living in some draconic society? They're often allowed to do their beer runs at 18 or even 16 - and what a wuss of a fighter obeys to stuff like that?
Maybe he means in real life, while the character has nothing to do, so the player makes the run.
What do fighters do out of combat?They shag the priestess.
Or the sorceress.
Or both.
Arcanists do so during the fight.
I'm sure you can come up with puns like "shooting your load" or priestesses shouting "enlarge spell" or the like.
I like that they get knowledge(engineering) now.
And of course, you can always transform into your low-level Aristocrat alter ego.
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You can get a fighter that can do anything well. With so many feats to choose from (level + 1, or level +2 for humans and half-elves), you can plenty afford to be good at 2 to 4 combat things and still have a few feats left over for things like skill focus or Crafting magic armor and weapons.
A one level dip in various classes can open up the +3 class bonus on various skills as well. Rogue or bard will obviously open up the most skills for this, and rogue gives the nice trapfinding ability as well plus 1d6 sneak attack. Rangers will give some extra skills, a huge boost to two saves, and won't even hurt you're BAB. Even a level of monk (if appropriate) can give some decent skills (perception, sense motive), gives a big boost to 3 saves, and gives 3 free feats (imp. unarmed strike-always nice to have, stunning fist-meh, and a bonus feat).
Even without a multiclassing dip, a fighter should be pretty free with his skill points. None of his class skills are must-have for him (although a few ranks in climb and swim are nice to have). That means he can focus on any skills he wants. He gets Intimidate as a class skill, so this can give some NPC interaction capabilities. Or he could just choose to boost whatever skills he wants to be good at, and use a feat or two to really boost them up. Plus, mos fighters should have a decent Int (many good fighter feats require 13 Int, so having a 14 is a pretty good idea), and if human he gets a free skill point each level anyways. (Human fighter with 14 Int will get 5 sps a level).
Lets say you want your fighter to be a good 'face' for the party. So you want to be good at Diplomacy, and Intimidate as a back up wouldn't hurt. And lets say you still have a bad Cha score of 10. You max your skill ranks in Diplomacy and Intimidate. You pick up the persuasive feat, plus Skill focus (diplomacy). At fifth level you'll have a diplomacy and intimidate check of +10. At 10th level you'll have a diplomacy check of +20! and an Intimidate check of +17. Not too shabby.
So its very possible for a fighter to be good at whatever he wants to be good at. Hes got all those feats so he can afford to drop a few into non-combat things where a lot of classes just don't have this luxury, and if built right he should have plenty of skill points to be good at one to three noncombat things. Its all about figuring out what you want him to be good at and then spending some of your resources on that.
What do fighters do out of combat?They shag the priestess.
Or the sorceress.
Or both.
at the same time...
Seriously, knowledge(engenieering) is a good start - let you build this defensive wall, plan with the local power (until you are) the most strategic place for the new keep on the borderland (hint, not next to the big rift full of orcs and goblins), etc.
A profession will also goes a great length toward your aim - you could be an established butcher or carpenter - let you get interresting contacts and may even give you access to some place you would not have access to (hey, I need a carpenter to help me build this secret door in my basement, so I can stash my unholy relic safely...)
Just use your creativity!
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Do what Mr. Fishy does hit on the female in the group, agrue with the rogue and yell at the wizard for F'ing up your kill count.
If you REALLY don't want to put points into Cha and want to be a terrifying fighter (heck, dazzling display is pretty f'ing useful!), putting skill points into Intimidate and getting the Intimidating Prowess (add Str to Intimidate IN ADDITION to Cha).
Now you have both an adventuring skill, a combat skill, and a social skill.
That's pretty useful!!
Now you have both an adventuring skill, a combat skill, and a social skill.
A high BAB is a social skill, aka the "speak softly and carry a big +3 Falchion of Torturous Disembowelment" rule.
High Intimidate using your Str as a bonus means for less arguments with the DM over the application of your falchion in social situations.
(grin)
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Name your weapon of choice Diplomacy and ask to settle everything with "Diplomacy". Strength bonus to social skill and most of your feats give a bonus to all discussions.
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Name your weapon of choice Diplomacy and ask to settle everything with "Diplomacy". Strength bonus to social skill and most of your feats give a bonus to all discussions.
Funny anecdote: A player's Paladin/Fighter/Barbarian (don't ask) named his sword "Justice." He constantly proffered an option to enemies of being brought to "Justice," implying they might survive. No-one ever took him up on it, if I recall correctly.
-t
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I just made up a pair of skilled low-Int/Wis/Cha fighter builds. You might find those useful - a fighter with decent mental stats would be even more adept out of combat than these worst-case stat examples.
Using your favoured class bonus as a skill point really helps, since your noncombat options are going to rely heavily on your skills.
You can also take traits to make non-class skills into class skills - for example, Ease of Faith (Diplomacy), Fast Talker (Bluff), Child of the Streets (Sleight of Hand), Suspicious (Sense Motive), Intense Artist (Perform), and Devotee of a Dead God (Diplomacy or Knowledge Religion). These traits give you +4 to that skill: +3 for the class skill bonus and +1 trait bonus. If you can't or don't want to take them at first level during character creation, the Extra Traits feat lets you take two for +4 to two non-class skills, which is a good deal (compare to Persuasive) if you can find the right traits.
A fighter-smith is pretty thematic if you're more interested in downtime abilities, but if you're trained in Diplomacy you can spend your time gathering allies and information wherever you're staying.
Play their character. This where those things like personality, back-story, relationships, family and how you influence all those things come into play. Fighters make decent romantic characters. They can also be the face of the party. As others have suggested, Paladins can come across as judgemental and too rigid, rogues a bit too underhanded, magic-users too mysterious and sometimes outright frightening. Clerics aren't bad, but fighters are a solid choice for party leader.
And role-play! For me participating in the story and interacting with PC's and NPC's is more fun than moving my mini on the grid. Combat is probably 30% of why I play RPG's.
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You can use Intimidate to replicate many other social skills.
Diplomacy - "You're going to sign that peace treaty...NOW!"
Bluff - "I never saw him. What? You don't believe me?! Want to make something of it?!"
Sense Motive - "If you lie to me, there won't be enough left of you to stick in an ashtray!"
Handle Animal - [Insert something PETA would get upset about]
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Judging from most of the topics posted here, there is no out of combat.
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Judging from most of the topics posted here, there is no out of combat.
This. And a character's ability to contribute is strictly rooted in his DPR.
Role playing?
What's that?
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Welcome to Pathfinder Society gaming. Roleplay is when the Venture Captain tells you what your mission is.
Question: "What do Fighters contribute outside of combat?"
Answer: "Almost nothing".
You can RP, of course, and if you are willing to sacrifice combat effectiveness you can nab some skills, but really, there's pretty much nothing for Fighters to do outside combat.
Every other class in the game has ways they can contribute outside of combat. Fighters do not.
This is the cost of a Fighter's combat ability. Properly constructed, a Fighter is the hands down undisputed master of combat - he can deal more damage per round than any other class and maintain a very nice AC at the same time. Throw in Iron Will, a cloak of resistance, and a non-negative wisdom modifier, and there's not a whole lot that can really bring them down, except for massive amounts of damage or creative terrain.
Fighters fight better than any other class in the game, because that's all they do. This is both good and bad, as you are discovering.
B$%*&+$s!
1) Train and lecture the next generation of fighters (for pay or because you are a good guy/lass). Know about oozes and dungeon traps? Lecture the uninitiated. "Okay students of war, it looks like this and you must never get this close."
2) Go fishing for promotions inside a city based on your great fighting prowess. The guard may be hiring, bodyguard work, swordlords, who knows, go and ask!
3) Instruct npcs in the true and proper way to use the weapons you took the time to specialise in. "That is not how you use a temple sword." Make a series of npc contacts that will follow the path of your feats. The fighters of tomorrow.
4) Buy tamesghigiri or targets and demonstrate the perfect cut or shot (if archer fighter) for onlookers for pay, or to impress those that may hire you in the future.
5) Drink/party hard. Your impressive fort can lead to winning all manner of drinking competitions. As in the fish-swill drinking contest in the first Sandpoint book.
6) Blacksmith/Armourer mafia. With brawn and coin, create a blacksmith monopoly. Get them all working for you (so that you can get cheap items later) and under your protection. Blacksmiths are tough, but you have fighter levels.
7) A variant of six, stage a coup. Got levels, got power, got coin? Take over a small community with intimidate, setting yourself up as the strongman in charge and demanding tribute and power.
C'mon people, roleplay. There is plenty that any character can do when not fighting.