Amiri looks sexy, and aerial combat rules are so needed after that pic.
Anyway, what's the level adjustment take on half-jann and suli?
Amiri looks sexy, and aerial combat rules are so needed after that pic.
Anyway, what's the level adjustment take on half-jann and suli?
There is no longer LA+... apparently it's CR+ now. I like what they did with the half-janni, the fact that the powers scale with levels means the CR adjustment stays relatively constant.
Not so fond of the Suli... seems like it's more powerful that the base races. It has 2 attribute bonuses and no penalties. The elemental power isn't very exciting unless you are going to go with monk or the Sorcerer bloodlines with claws.
Overall it looks like nearly everything that was LA+1 is likely to be reworked as CR+0 similar to this. I hope Drow and other LA+2-3 are reworked similar to the Half Jann
|
I rather like Brian's twist on the role and position of women in a pseudo-Middle Eastern country. Still subjugated and kept away from a lot of society, but because they are so precious and valued, rather than being second class citizens. A Qadiran who dies with only sons is seen as cursed in the eyes of the gods, because only daughters inherit.
The question is: Can you play a Suli at all with current rules, without coming up with your own system? The CR adjustment cannot be the same.
By abandoning the LA system, the PFRPG basically says, "look at non-standard races on a case-by-case basis, decide if they're suitable for PCs, and what sort of adjustment they'd require to balance them against the core races."
Creative Director
|
Yeah, what Sean said.
We abandoned the LA system because it was clunky and there were too many exceptions and it limited design choices when building low-power races that were intended to be enemies of PCs and never actually PC races.
Instead, the GM should look at those races and decide for him/herself if it's cool for the PCs to use the race in question as a player. This DOES mean that it's something that limits that to GMs who are more experienced, but that's fine since stepping away from the assumed baseline of the game as presented (which assumes base races of power level equal to humans) IS an advanced element.
Also, removing LA and ECL from the game removes a quirky rules element that a lot of players, in my opinion, latched on to as "ammunition" to use against their GMs to try to force an issue. The GM should always be the one who decides what is and isn't appropriate for his or her particular game, and which races are appropriate for players to choose as player races is front and center a GM choice. Hard-wiring sketchy rules into the game that give players unintended leverage to bully their GMs is not good for the game (even if, in most cases, players don't actually REALIZE they're doing this). And yeah, I realize this viewpoint might be a bit extreme or over the top, and I could be argued away from this line of thought with well-thought out and logical presentations of arguments, but those would have to fight against a fair amount of personal experience to the otherwise.
The PFRPG and the Bestiary offer a fair amount of advice to GMs on what to do if a PC wants to play a non-core race, but they're not out yet, so that (and the fact that the book was originally intended to be a 3.5 book) leaves Qadira's suli and other creatures in weird sort of crossover zone, trapped between one system and the other. Certainly this is the first Companion product we've included monster stat blocks in with the implied intent of letting players mess around with them... what do folks think of this? Is it good? Do you want more?
In any case, just as the PFRPG doesn't currently support rules for psionics or epic level play or laser guns, the game doesn't currently really support non-core PC races. There are some suggestions and guidelines for them (as there are for epic level play), but in the end, this is a REALLY compelling topic for a supplementary rules book (as are psionics, epic level play, or laser guns).
|
Creative Director
|
Here's an easy enough question to answer then, since this was supposed to be a 3.5 book. What LAs were the half-janni and Suli supposed to have under 3.5?
I'm pretty sure that we never bothered to figure that out, honestly, since by the time development started on the book we were already in PFRPG mode.
I like having player possible stuff in the books. My problem with LA was it simply didn't work. Either the level 1 LA 4 half celestial didn't have the HP, BAB, and saves to stand with the level 5 characters, or LA didn't seem to make up for the fact that the race absolutely rocked (Chaos Gnomes I'm looking at you! You too catfolk!).
Add to this that it seems like no one oversaw the mechanics of 3.5 from book to book and we get authors and editors deciding what matches without really looking at what their creation would do to the balance of the game as a whole.
One reason I really like what I've seen of pathfinder to date is that it looks like Piazo is actively going over what they product to keep the power levels were they want them and reduce the chances of accidental increases in power (as opposed to planned increases, like what the fighter got, and might be needed in the future for something else).
My only annoyance to date, is the fact that many times our DM will leave the option open, but never inform us players that it is there, only to later say, "Well you could have had it if you asked." We don't ask because we don't know since he gets upset if we have read anything that he is running (having an issue with this already -- DM is running second darkness, and someone else decided to run LoF... now the first is miffed because the second one is running LoF and he might have wanted to run it, but now he can't because someone else has played it. :: Shrugs ::).
However this could simply be the "player leverage" that Jason was talking about wanting to avoid so maybe it is better without a referance to it for players.
Having downloaded the PDF, I think this is a GREAT product for 32 pages, it really 'picks up the ball' of al-Qadim, and of course Qadira is really just the 'toes' of the Kelish Empire, which sounds nearly as large and diverse as Avistan itself. al-Qadim is easily one of my favorite D&D settings, so having this as a BEGINNING for it's analogue re-incarnation in Golarion makes me very glad :-)
All the personalities/factions, while small, really seem to give a jump-start for any DM wanting to run their own adventures in Qadira.
From what I've seen of the core classes previews, I think it's pretty well balanced vs. single-class casters' class abilities.
-Question about playing a davrat in the spirit of the class' flavor:
If you are 'nice to genies', isn't summoning/calling them and compelling them to serve you (even if they can't really die) contrary to that ideal? Are Daivrat supposed to only use the (Cleric list) Planar Ally and not Summon/Planar Binding?
-And related to that, about the 'Genie's Friend' bonus:
If you restrict yourself to persuading Genies to help you willingly, what use is the CL bonus? Is the CL bonus supposed to let you cast a higher Spell Level equivalent in the normal slot (i.e. Summon X+1 instead of Summon X, Planar Ally +1)?
-Possible Errata
Is the intent that Wizards no longer automatically gain new spells? That seems harsh, but then I realized if they're able to Scribe the Gen-Fetched Spells, they would definitely NOT be worse off or hampered... ???
-Possible Errata: The Elemental Attunement (Resist 5 vs. one element @ Daivrat Lvl 4) seems to be designed to automatically match your 'chosen' Element (the 10th level Genie-Kin supports this), but the actual wording just says "gains Energy Resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, or fire" which literally read would be a free choice independent of the 'chosen' Element. Minor detail.
It's listed as a +2 Natural Armor bonus. The item sounds like a magical armored kilt, which should logically just increase your Armor Bonus by 2... ?
They clearly synergize as Sorcerors + Arcane Knight/Dragon Disciple or as Paladins... But Elves also make good Wizards, so being "good" for certain roles is hardly out of line with the other PC races. +1d6 Elemental Attack seems alot, but it's only for Unarmed Strikes, only 1x/day - even though the duration gets longer at high levels, it doesn't say you can 'split up' those rounds. I'm NOT sure if that ability stacks with (same-Element) Flaming/ etc Amulets of Unarmed Strike... ?
I see Suli Vampire being all haughty over their superiority to non Suli Vampire, ala stereotypical Kelish/Qadiran attitude.
I take it native Qadirans CAN pronounce the "th" sound unlike other Kelesh?
Or is the name "Katheer" only used by (non-Kelish) foreigners to refer to Qadira's capitol?
|
|
In any case, just as the PFRPG doesn't currently support rules for psionics or epic level play or laser guns, the game doesn't currently really support non-core PC races. There are some suggestions and guidelines for them (as there are for epic level play), but in the end, this is a REALLY compelling topic for a supplementary rules book
I would love to see a book like that.
I don't like the country... as a player :P
its to much Persia in both attitude and flavor, while I like the flavor... the attitude goes agaisnt what we believe.
What do you mean? Do you go Catholic on us?
The PFRPG and the Bestiary offer a fair amount of advice to GMs on what to do if a PC wants to play a non-core race
That is great news!
Certainly this is the first Companion product we've included monster stat blocks in with the implied intent of letting players mess around with them... what do folks think of this? Is it good? Do you want more?
I like it. If it is done like this - stuff that could benefit players (as allies/companions or even playable races), it fits.
In any case, just as the PFRPG doesn't currently support rules for psionics or epic level play or laser guns, the game doesn't currently really support non-core PC races. There are some suggestions and guidelines for them (as there are for epic level play), but in the end, this is a REALLY compelling topic for a supplementary rules book (as are psionics, epic level play, or laser guns).
When are the announcements going to be made? What else will be in the laser guns book? Planetary annihilators? Because I have a character that likes to dial-wield those. Now *that* is a space ranger!
|
What do you mean? Do you go Catholic on us?
I don't like the country... as a player :P
its to much Persia in both attitude and flavor, while I like the flavor... the attitude goes agaisnt what we believe.
nah
more the "The only reason Absalom is not under our heel is because the emperor don't let us play harsh on her" that one :Pand when I say We, I say me and my other mees :P
je I like to much Absalom :P
and Quadira sounds fun in fact... just as its politics knav me on the wrong way :P
that is why I specified Persia :P
not in Prince of Persia (by the way I loved that game)
more like in Xerxes in 300! :P
I know that is the Idea, it just calls to my senses to oppose them :P
as much or more as to oppose Cheliax :P
while Osirion is all cool to me
Taldor is the grey spot, to much ambition, to little fangs and claws sometimes.. I want to see what happens when the king dies and if his daughter would be able to take the power... that is when we are going to se Xerxes... i mean Xerbistes run for it... imperial decree or not.
Here's an easy enough question to answer then, since this was supposed to be a 3.5 book. What LAs were the half-janni and Suli supposed to have under 3.5?
The half-janni and suli were originally designed to be the genie analogue for the half-celestial and aasimar, at +4 and +1 respectively. I did note in the turnover a few places where there'd be a clear difference between 3.5 and PFRPG, and one of them was the LA of the suli-janni, which could easily be tweaked to match up with the core races (in PFRPG).
@Brian:.
I was wondering if you have any comment on my rules questions about the Daivrat, and what I thought might be Errata...?
Having downloaded the PDF, I think this is a GREAT product for 32 pages, it really 'picks up the ball' of al-Qadim, and of course Qadira is really just the 'toes' of the Kelish Empire, which sounds nearly as large and diverse as Avistan itself. al-Qadim is easily one of my favorite D&D settings, so having this as a BEGINNING for it's analogue re-incarnation in Golarion makes me very glad :-)
Thanks for the kind words! To answer a few of you concerns:
Question about playing a davrat in the spirit of the class' flavor:
If you are 'nice to genies', isn't summoning/calling them and compelling them to serve you (even if they can't really die) contrary to that ideal? Are Daivrat supposed to only use the (Cleric list) Planar Ally and not Summon/Planar Binding?
Different members of the PrC have different attitudes. You can play summoned genies as pre-arranged agreements, as willing soldiers in the daivrats battle for genie-rights, or even as a daivrat exploiting his 'friendship' with genies to get what he wants. The daivrat can exploit genies. There is no code of conduct for the class, or alignment restriction, and that's on purpose.
And related to that, about the 'Genie's Friend' bonus:
If you restrict yourself to persuading Genies to help you willingly, what use is the CL bonus? Is the CL bonus supposed to let you cast a higher Spell Level equivalent in the normal slot (i.e. Summon X+1 instead of Summon X, Planar Ally +1)?
No. It's a minor bonus, which increases the duration of the summon spells.
More next post.
-Possible Errata Is the intent that Wizards no longer automatically gain new spells? That seems harsh, but then I realized if they're able to Scribe the Gen-Fetched Spells, they would definitely NOT be worse off or hampered... ???
No. The intention is to make it clear that spontaneous casters do get additional spells known, not that wizards don't. I'm not entirely sure how PrCs in PFRPG interact with the "2 spells per level" that wizards are supposed to get, because that's technically a function of the character's level in the wizard class, not a function of spellcaster level. You'd need to ask the Paizo folks for an official ruling.
Possible Errata: The Elemental Attunement (Resist 5 vs. one element @ Daivrat Lvl 4) seems to be designed to automatically match your 'chosen' Element (the 10th level Genie-Kin supports this), but the actual wording just says "gains Energy Resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, or fire" which literally read would be a free choice independent of the 'chosen' Element. Minor detail.
There are two sets of paired abilities on the class: Elemental Attunment ability (level 4) is connected to the Genie-Kin ability (level 10), and Elemental Focus (level 1) is connected to Greater Elemental Focus (level 7). The daivrat is free to choose to use the same element for both, or to go with different onee. For example: a daivrat that is allied with djinn and jann but opposes efreet might seek fire resistance, but prefer to improve her spellcasting with cold spells.
Possible Errata with the War-Kilt of Sarenrae:
It's listed as a +2 Natural Armor bonus.
It should remain a natural armor bonus. Sean and I agreed that improving armor bonus proved too much of a problem in the original design, and since this is a favored item of dervishes (many of whom where no armor at all), I think natural armor is the better choice.
Post #3 coming...
One other question:
I take it native Qadirans CAN pronounce the "th" sound unlike other Kelesh?
Or is the name "Katheer" only used by (non-Kelish) foreigners to refer to Qadira's capitol?
I like playing with language, especially when it comes to the meeting of cultures. The explanation of the naming of Qadira is far longer than there was room for in the book.
The original name of the city was pronounced with a very soft "th," like the English word 'thee,' as opposed to the modern pronunciation (which has a hard -th, like in the word 'with'). Like most conquerors, Kelesh was unconcerned with what the natives called their homeland, and hadn't yet picked up on the local dialects. Over time the city of Katheer (soft -th) gave its name to both the Keleshite city of Katheer (hard -th) and the nation of Qadira.
Most Qadiras can pronounce the -th sound (as can many other Keleshites, when they bother to try), but only those who cleave to older traditions, like the tribesfolk of the Paresh, do so regularly or proudly.
One last thing:
For those of you that have opinions on the book as a whole--good or bad--I encourage you to review the book on its product page. I appreciate feedback (it lets me know what I'm doing right, and what I need to improve on), and those shiny stars control the very basis of my self-esteem.
For those of you that are enjoying the book, I'm glad. For those that aren't, or feel that something's missing, please: say so.
For those that haven't picked up the book yet: What're you waiting for? ;)
|
|
Here's an easy enough question to answer then, since this was supposed to be a 3.5 book. What LAs were the half-janni and Suli supposed to have under 3.5?The half-janni and suli were originally designed to be the genie analogue for the half-celestial and aasimar, at +4 and +1 respectively. I did note in the turnover a few places where there'd be a clear difference between 3.5 and PFRPG, and one of them was the LA of the suli-janni, which could easily be tweaked to match up with the core races (in PFRPG).
Those were what I had guessed, but it's good to see the confirmation.
Different members of the PrC have different attitudes. You can play summoned genies as pre-arranged agreements, as willing soldiers in the daivrats battle for genie-rights, or even as a daivrat exploiting his 'friendship' with genies to get what he wants. The daivrat can exploit genies. There is no code of conduct for the class, or alignment restriction, and that's on purpose.
No. [The CL]'s a minor bonus, which increases the duration of the summon spells.
Cool. I think I'm fairly safe just making mental note "This is the Pathfinder Sha'ir" :-)
...So if I'm most 'friendly' with Marid, then Summoned Marid are perhaps already "friendly" acquaintainces to some degree, but if I have a prejudice to Shaitan (ex), Summoning them might be more along (normal) involuntary Summoning thing...But all of that is basically "fluff" up to the player/DM, not written into the class, and Summon spells are fine to use. Great.
The intention is to make it clear that spontaneous casters do get additional spells known, not that wizards don't. I'm not entirely sure how PrCs in PFRPG interact with the "2 spells per level" that wizards are supposed to get, because that's technically a function of the character's level in the wizard class, not a function of spellcaster level. You'd need to ask the Paizo folks for an official ruling.
Great, I'll assume (since it's not specifically mentioned) that these "Summoned" spells CAN'T be Scribed then.
It sounds like Paizo may very well make a general rule (whether in the Core book, or an Errata/FAQ) saying that that Caster PrCs also progress Spells Known... Which may make your line on sorcerors superfluous, but it was obviously crucial to Spontaneous Casters, while Wizards COULD always find new spells (on the off-chance Paizo decided PrCs DIDN'T automatically progress Spells Known).There are two sets of paired abilities on the class: Elemental Attunment ability (level 4) is connected to the Genie-Kin ability (level 10), and Elemental Focus (level 1) is connected to Greater Elemental Focus (level 7). The daivrat is free to choose to use the same element for both, or to go with different onee. For example: a daivrat that is allied with djinn and jann but opposes efreet might seek fire resistance, but prefer to improve her spellcasting with cold spells.
[The War-Kilt of Sarenrae] should remain a natural armor bonus. Sean and I agreed that improving armor...
Cool,
The two sets (offensive/defensive) makes total sense, it just wasn't 'labelled as such' for dumbos like Moi :-)Is the (non-magical) War-Kilt in the Core Book...? Otherwise, I guess the Campaign Setting will get an Errata on this eventually?
...Again, much thanks on doing this,
I don't think a true Kelesh AP is in the pipeline for a while (the whole Sarenrae/Rovagug/Casmaron Nomad rumors of ancient God returning set-up a great, continent spanning plot mirroring Aroden's death in a way), but this product is motivating me to work up an AQ-comeback campaign in Qadira!
BTW: If you're at all involved in further Setting/ AP development on the Kelesh Empire/ Casmaron/ Vudra, I have one request: Yak-Men :-)
nah
more the "The only reason Absalom is not under our heel is because the emperor don't let us play harsh on her" that one :P
Well, everyone wants Absalom.
Too bad I won't let go of it again.
and Quadira sounds fun in fact... just as its politics knav me on the wrong way :P
Taldor is worse.
more like in Xerxes in 300! :P
I know that is the Idea, it just calls to my senses to oppose them :P
as much or more as to oppose Cheliax :P
while Osirion is all cool to me
Don't get yourself killed over there. Jarod wants to do you in himself.
-Question about playing a davrat in the spirit of the class' flavor:
If you are 'nice to genies', isn't summoning/calling them and compelling them to serve you (even if they can't really die) contrary to that ideal? Are Daivrat supposed to only use the (Cleric list) Planar Ally and not Summon/Planar Binding?
To add to what Brian said....
In my book Anger of Angels, which talks a lot about the game world/system from the perspective of angelic outsiders, I say that "I am able to be summoned with summon monster spells" is a mental switch that all angels (angels, archons, etc.) can turn on or turn off (and I think I say that all outsiders can do it, too). So whenever you summon an angel, they're there willingly... they've opened up to be receptive to the magical telephone and always answer the call. If they didn't want to be summoned, they just switch off (I also mention that Heaven's angels take turns "on duty" so there are always some available for mortal summonings, but angels don't risk being summoned when they need to stay focused (like in a battle). And remember than when you summon a creature, it's not really present, and if it is "killed" while summoned, it just reforms on its home plane.
When it comes to a calling spell like lesser planar binding , a daivrat's "trap" for a genie isn't like calling and binding a hostile demon--it's more like asking your friend Bob to go to the movies, asking him to meet at your house so you can drive there together, and while he's there you say, "hey, while you're here, could you help me move this couch? I'll pay for your movie ticket if you do." An arcane daivrat's calling spells act more like planar ally than planar binding... you're offering payment for a service and the creature arrives with the expectation that you're friends.
So it's entirely possible to use summon monster and planar binding spells if you're a daivrat, and still be a friend of genies.
I say that "I am able to be summoned with summon monster spells" is a mental switch that all angels (angels, archons, etc.) can turn on or turn off (and I think I say that all outsiders can do it, too).
Makes perfect sense.
A couple of people I played with had that thing about tieflings that they could just be summoned away by some mortal spellcaster, just like that. Never made sense to me.
|
hat is why I specified Persia :P
not in Prince of Persia (by the way I loved that game)more like in Xerxes in 300! :P
You might already know this but...
That film was a historical travesty; and I regard it as a particularly racist one in that it pandered to offensive Victorian notions of Arabs as decadent and effete.
I think the film-makers only got away with it because Herodotus is such a disputed historical source and there is no singular modern Persian cultural/ethnic voice to complain.
|
I think the film-makers only got away with it because Herodotus is such a disputed historical source and there is no singular modern Persian cultural/ethnic voice to complain.
actually the film makers got away with it because it was taken frame-by-frame from the graphic novel.. which was historical fiction and never mean to be a factual representation of the people it depicted... but this neither here nor there...
I will review the book when it comes in the mail and I read it (I can't read books in PDF form, it only makes them good resource material for the wiki and campaign prep)
|
|
actually the film makers got away with it because it was taken frame-by-frame from the graphic novel.. which was historical fiction and never mean to be a factual representation of the people it depicted... but this neither here nor there...
agreed
the idea of either comic or movie was NOT to depict a time
but give us an epic, just that, but that is the idea
besides a good quantity of fantasy and historical rulers are decadent.
besides Geraint check your story books Persia was like the evil empire of those times, not becuase it had arabs... but because it was intent on conquering everything in its pass... for quite a long time they were the biggest empire, but then the greeks brought it down, but couldn't keep the empire for long
then they were followed by the Romans... who in the name of civilization and richess brough lots of realms and empires to their knees
just change the historical time and you will get your villain
some would say USA is the modern Rome.. or Persia :P
I have no problems with arabs... but the description of quadira politics makes me prefer to have them at arms lenght... and I think Seoni and Amiri are with me... just check the cover
osirion is a 2 heroes battling mummies
Taldor knights of the same nation fighting with themselves
Andoran an heroe fighting a monster
Quadira... 2 heroes figthitng a Quadiran :P
besides... every nation has its good and evil
i liked that one of the comanders in charge of causing problems to pirats and taldans actually free the slaves instead of selling them again. i like that man.
besides... every nation has its good and evil
Definetly. Especially Cheliax. It has some PR problems with that "but devils are BAD!" nonsense you hear all the time, but they're actually a force for good for the most part.
Those punks in Andoran want to give people "freedom to vote" and nonsense like that - but freedom to vote makes horrible gravy. You just can't sink your teeth in it.
Cheliax, on the other hand, doesn't give people some esoteric nonsense. It feeds and clothes them! So what if they don't have the illusion of being their own leaders (this Democracy stuff is just laughable. Does anyone believe their votes actually count for anything?)? If they have a problem with that, they can lose sleep over it with a full stomach!
Even slaves in Cheliax are better fed than some "freemen" in Andoran. Ask anyone from darkmoon vale...
|
|
Definetly. Especially Cheliax. It has some PR problems with that "but devils are BAD!" nonsense you hear all the time, but they're actually a force for good for the most part.
Those punks in Andoran want to give people "freedom to vote" and nonsense like that - but freedom to vote makes horrible gravy. You just can't sink your teeth in it.
Cheliax, on the other hand, doesn't give people some esoteric nonsense. It feeds and clothes them! So what if they don't have the illusion of being their own leaders (this Democracy stuff is just laughable. Does anyone believe their votes actually count for anything?)? If they have a problem with that, they can lose sleep over it with a full stomach!
Even slaves in Cheliax are better fed than some "freemen" in Andoran. Ask anyone from darkmoon vale...
no idea about such a thing... i just plan on visiting Cheliax soon enough and re-discovering my characters grandfather's land... after its fall :P
no idea about such a thing... i just plan on visiting Cheliax soon enough and re-discovering my characters grandfather's land... after its fall :P
Your grandfather's land is going to fall? Traitor, eh?
|
|
Your grandfather's land is going to fall? Traitor, eh?
no idea about such a thing... i just plan on visiting Cheliax soon enough and re-discovering my characters grandfather's land... after its fall :P
nah the man left cheliax when they waited for Aroden to get a proper gift... when the aye of avedengo forme he was lost in the sea... somehow he reapered in the Mierany forest... somehow the elves there didn't killed him or his surviving crew, the rest is story :P
|
|
Is there something wrong with the stat block of "Anwa of the soft step"?
In the stats her STR and DEX are listed as 10 and 18.
But the CMB is one higher than the BAB, and the armor bonus due to Dex is given as +3 Dex.
btw. I like that the Dodge bonus from the feat Dodge is already worked into the AC rating.
|
|
the idea of either comic or movie was NOT to depict a timebut give us an epic, just that, but that is the idea
besides a good quantity of fantasy and historical rulers are decadent.
besides Geraint check your history books Persia was like the evil empire of those times, not because it had Persians... but because it was intent on conquering everything in its pass... for quite a long time they were the biggest empire, but then the Greeks brought it down, but couldn't keep the empire for long
My objection is not really to the implication that the Persians were aggressive imperialists but rather the suggestion that they were decadent and effete.
In Herodotus' Histories (really the only written source of any value) the Persians were shocked by the Spartans obsession with having pretty hair before a big battle...
I understand that Historical Fiction can use a place in history as a setting and draw inspiration from those events to tell a unique story. What I don't like is when they take an actual historical event and alter it to suit their own bias, whether it be making Americans responsible for British/Commonwealth/Other victories in WWII or changing the behaviour of people in the ancient historical record.
This distortion of the historical record misleads a lot of people - I'm sure I have misapprehended aspects of history due to film-making (apparently a recent survey showed that most Americans asked what happened when JFK was shot will give you the version of events from Oliver Stone's film).
Basically 'Ancient Persians' should not be equated with 'The bad guys from the film 300'.
Basically 'Ancient Persians' should not be equated with 'The bad guys from the film 300'.
Wait, you're saying they didn't have ghost assassins who nailed victims to trees to form great visuals? ;-)
Is there something wrong with the stat block of "Anwa of the soft step"?
In the stats her STR and DEX are listed as 10 and 18.
But the CMB is one higher than the BAB, and the armor bonus due to Dex is given as +3 Dex.
btw. I like that the Dodge bonus from the feat Dodge is already worked into the AC rating.
Dodge apparently now gives a flat bonus. No swift action to activate or anything.
As for the stats: I think they changed the stats from STR 12 DEX 16 to 10/18 or vice versa and didn't correct everything: Init is only +3 (i.e. Dex 16), but weapon attacks seem to support the dex 18 (and str 12!)
|
|
Just got the hardcopy today and looked through it. Two comments
One: I'd like to see all the player-crunch in one spot, having the traits/feats/spells smattered here and there is very frustrating if you are trying to find something you remember seeing in a book somewhere.
As for LA, just when making a race that would be a likely player choice for non-core race (generally anthropomorphic, sub-races, fey-like species and planetouched) just do the "X as Characters" block and try to make it as close to LA 0 as possible, even if it's a little scaled down to the original creature, things like Drow spell resistance could be racial feats or traits.
|
|
My objection is not really to the implication that the Persians were aggressive imperialists but rather the suggestion that they were decadent and effete.In Herodotus' Histories (really the only written source of any value) the Persians were shocked by the Spartans obsession with having pretty hair before a big battle...
I understand that Historical Fiction can use a place in history as a setting and draw inspiration from those events to tell a unique story. What I don't like is when they take an actual historical event and alter it to suit their own bias, whether it be making Americans responsible for British/Commonwealth/Other victories in WWII or changing the behaviour of people in the ancient historical record.
This distortion of the historical record misleads a lot of people - I'm sure I have misapprehended aspects of history due to film-making (apparently a recent survey showed that most Americans asked what happened when JFK was shot will give you the version of events from Oliver Stone's film).
Basically 'Ancient Persians' should not be equated with 'The bad guys from the film 300'.
300 is intended to be taken as a Spartan telling a story about the fight, not as a documentary. From the perspective you'd EXPECT him to exaggerate a bit.
|
|
We have left Qadira far behind and I feel a bit bad about that so...
300 is intended to be taken as a Spartan telling a story about the fight, not as a documentary. From the perspective you'd EXPECT him to exaggerate a bit.
lots of faff
Yes... but what is the film-maker's motive for this? Where is the dramatic imperative for this perspective?
Isn't this perspective just an excuse for distorting the historical record? It's not exactly a film that explores the nature of memory, bias and personal story-telling.
Isn't the story-teller a technique designed to remind us of the 'reality' of the piece (look, this is a story a real person could tell) rather like the old woman in Titanic?
I don't mind the comic or the film, but they should have called it FANTASY BATTLE and given the characters names that were unrelated to any historic events. That would have been a more sincere approach to ancient history.
That film was a historical travesty; and I regard it as a particularly racist one in that it pandered to offensive Victorian notions of Arabs as decadent and effete.
Yes, so effete they had real goat-headed musicians and a seven-foot-tall piercing-fetish shaven-headed god king!!!!1!!1!
Or maybe it's a fantasy movie.
Yes... but what is the film-maker's motive for this?
He was a fan of the graphic nover.
Where is the dramatic imperative for this perspective?
He wanted to make a bad-ass movie based on the bad-ass graphic novel.
Isn't this perspective just an excuse for distorting the historical record? It's not exactly a film that explores the nature of memory, bias and personal story-telling.
It's not a documentary, either, and therefore we should expect that it's not a 100% accurate portrayal of the events. Especially as some of the events weren't witnessed by anyone involved in telling the story. No Spartan saw Ephialtes' conversation with Xerxes. No Spartan survived the battle where Leonidas was killed. Yet the framing of the movie shows us that it's a Spartan telling the story to other Greeks. Hmmm.
I'm not sure why this movie is a sticking point for you, but movies are fantasy, not reality. Even movies about real, verifiable, recent events aren't 100% real. Take Apollo 13, for example, or October Sky, which are based on direct evidence from the people the films depict. There are things in the movies that simply didn't happen... because they suit the narrative of the story, or make the story more exciting, or more appealing to a movie audience. Sometimes you add stuff, sometimes you subtract stuff--either because there's no time to fit it all in the movie, or it's irrelevant to the story you're trying to tell ("It doesn't matter that Bob's wife was pregnant with their second child when these events took place, what matters is his space capsule was going to explode")
Isn't the story-teller a technique designed to remind us of the 'reality' of the piece (look, this is a story a real person could tell) rather like the old woman in Titanic?
Yet you're not complaining that Titanic isn't real (there was no Jack Dawson, there was no Heart of the Ocean, etc.). :?/
I don't mind the comic or the film, but they should have called it FANTASY BATTLE and given the characters names that were unrelated to any historic events. That would have been a more sincere approach to ancient history.
Wikipedia on 300 the film: "300 is a 2007 American action film adaptation of the graphic novel of the same name by Frank Miller, and is a fictionalized retelling of the Battle of Thermopylae."
Wikipedia on 300 the graphic novel: "Renowned comics writer Alan Moore [who wrote 300-the-graphic-novel] has criticized 300 as historically inaccurate."By saying, "If you're going to write about a historical subject, you should either be 100% accurate to it or call it something else so it's unrelated to actual history" severely limits what people can write about. Mind you, your suggestion means we would never have Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, Richard III, Henry V, or Henry VIII (or, for that matter, the movie Shakespeare in Love, which is a romanticized false history of the origin of Romeo and Juliet)--all of which were written decades or more after the historical events, with dubious citations. And here are some Best Picture-nominated movies based on historical facts, each of which I'm sure took some liberties with the truth: The Queen, Good Night and Good Luck, Capote, Ray, Finding Neverland, The Aviator, Seabiscuit, A Beautiful Mind, Erin Brockovich, Gladiator, Elizabeth, Shine, Braveheart, Schindler's List, My Left Foot, The Last Emperor, Amadeus, Gandhi, The Elephant Man, All the President's Men,Patton, and Gone With the Wind.
Part of being a creative writer (rather than a historian or documentarian) is taking what is known, filling in the blanks of what isn't known, and (often) making the stuff that is known into a better story. It's innovation. It's storytelling.
All that aside it is still a cr4p movie though.....
Tell me do you ever stop bullying and shouting at the lower orders?
NEVER! There's only one way to win a campaign shout, shout and shout again.
You don't think that inspired leadership and tactical ability have anything to do with it?
NO! It's all down to shouting. WAAGGHH!
|
|
That film was a historical travesty; and I regard it as a particularly racist one in that it pandered to offensive Victorian notions of Arabs as decadent and effete.Yes, so effete they had real goat-headed musicians and a seven-foot-tall piercing-fetish shaven-headed god king!!!!1!!1!
Or maybe it's a fantasy movie.
I concur.
The point I have been laboriously making and now wish I hadn't bothered is... Miller and the film-maker took a fascinating story from Herodotus and changed aspects of the central protagonists to fit them into a clumsy east vs west dynamic that has its roots in Victorian colonial racism.
They knew full well that most of their audience would leave the cinema unaware of the changes they had made.
Why do this?
It's interesting that you bring up Shakespeare because I don't think that we should believe all Jews of the period were like Shylock.
And that was my original point - don't confuse 300 with Ancient Persians.
Part of being a creative writer (rather than a historian or documentarian) is taking what is known, filling in the blanks of what isn't known, and (often) making the stuff that is known into a better story. It's innovation. It's storytelling.
Of course, the bitter irony is that Herodotus' History is a far more gripping and inspiring work of art than either the film or the comic.
I find it odd that so often creative writers think they can improve upon the original, whether it be Beowulf (Hey, this story has gripped readers for hundreds of years - but I can do better by making Grendel sexy) or Psycho (You know what would be great, make it again, but in colour!)
Great works can be built upon the bones of history (For Brutus is an honourable man...) but we, the audience, should be aware of the gap between fiction and reality and should endeavour not to, for example, confuse 300 with Ancient Persians.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I find it odd that so often creative writers think they can improve upon the original, whether it be Beowulf (Hey, this story has gripped readers for hundreds of years - but I can do better by making Grendel sexy) or Psycho (You know what would be great, make it again, but in colour!)
Great works can be built upon the bones of history (For Brutus is an honourable man...) but we, the audience, should be aware of the gap between fiction and reality and should endeavour not to, for example, confuse 300 with Ancient Persians.
Heh, don't get me started on the Beowulf movie.
Though I think it's time to do some of the greek myths. We have the technology. And I mean actual myths, not Xena/Herecules myths.
As to Darius, it made perfect sense to me. He wasn't Persian, He was a gou'ld. :-)
|
The Qadira book is awesome!! It goes hand in hand with my LOF APs and my Kapetesh book. Not to say this book does not stand on it's on merits.
I like how it expands on the livelihood of Qadirans for my Qadira players and allows me to cultivate accurate stories/npc from Qadira.
It is a good addition to the companion series.
300/beo!@#%
;)
Though I think it's time to do some of the greek myths. We have the technology. And I mean actual myths, not Xena/Herecules myths.
You mean, like the pending Clash of the Titans remake? :)
|
|
I would like to see something done for Perseus. The guy decides he wont let the beautiful andromeda be sacrificed to the sea monster; so he swoops down on his pegasus, kills the monster, and gets the girl.
Later, he kills medusa and nails her head to his shield so he can walk out her cave and turn her entire army into stone.