Qadira - Thoughts, impressions, questions


Pathfinder Player Companion

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mach1.9pants wrote:
All that aside it is still a cr4p movie though.....

No, it's not. And the fact that you use 1337 speak totally destroyed your credibility. :P


Whaaat? 300 isn't a documentary?

You're saying I went out after the movie and killed me a couple of evil Persians for nothing? They didn't threaten my Greek ancestors? Not that I'm Greek.

Seriously, people, give it a rest. It's a movie. If all the way-out-there stuff hasn't clued you in on the fact that they didn't attempt to give you a perfectly accurate retelling of something that happened ages ago - without cameras or reporters or anyone else that would proof that what they're saying is real - is a lost cause, anyway.

Liberty's Edge

GeraintElberion wrote:
Basically 'Ancient Persians' should not be equated with 'The bad guys from the film 300'.

point taken

still that Xerxes is a good example for Xerbistes :P

ok just not as effette I suppose

Liberty's Edge

Coridan wrote:

Just got the hardcopy today and looked through it. Two comments

One: I'd like to see all the player-crunch in one spot, having the traits/feats/spells smattered here and there is very frustrating if you are trying to find something you remember seeing in a book somewhere.

As for LA, just when making a race that would be a likely player choice for non-core race (generally anthropomorphic, sub-races, fey-like species and planetouched) just do the "X as Characters" block and try to make it as close to LA 0 as possible, even if it's a little scaled down to the original creature, things like Drow spell resistance could be racial feats or traits.

actually i liked them more like sidebars... that way you can find in in the part that makes reference to it, and you can add them in spaces you have left letting you use your wordcount better

i prefer more info than asection... specially if most of Quadiran feats and traits could already be found in Legacy of Fire Player's Handbook

Sczarni

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Coridan wrote:

Just got the hardcopy today and looked through it. Two comments

One: I'd like to see all the player-crunch in one spot, having the traits/feats/spells smattered here and there is very frustrating if you are trying to find something you remember seeing in a book somewhere.

Coridan, I'd like to point something out that may help in this regard. If you are using Acrobat, you can go to edit>search and select a directory, searching all PDFs in the given directory for the text in the search box.

Dark Archive

So I just found this at my local comic/gaming shop! They normally don't carry Pathfinder stuff much, so it was a pleasant sight, and I went and bought it on impulse. (I hadn't intended to, but I failed Will save. With the exception of Osirion, the 'big five' Pathfinder nations aren't even on my radar.)

Some interesting stuff.

The Daivrat PrC just whets my appetite for a 'real Sha'ir' conversion for 3.5/PF, but seems like a plausible choice for a Sorcerer, maybe, as it opens up some versatility.

The Suli is a pretty strong race option, and might make for a potent Paladin or Cleric option. Combined with the right bloodline or combat style (fighting mage/gish), it would also be pretty hot for a Bard or Battle Sorcerer. I kind of like how it isn't ideally suited, statwise, for most mixes. It might be too strong, if was 'perfect.'

A variation on the Suli, more strongly elemental-focused, and with attributes reflecting that elemental tie (so a Djinn based one having only the electrical assault / resistance, but a +2 Dex instead of Str, or something) could make for an interesting tweak.

There are two new Feats, with Dervish Dance being a nice one for emulating certain aspects of Qadiran flavor. Going along that vein, I would like to see a feat (or even Trait) similar to the Scarred Lands 'Cloth Dancer' which gives an armor class bonus to an unarmored fighter type who wears loose flapping clothing, for those desert warriors who can't wear heavy armor. That's one aspect of the 'flavor' that doesn't really have a good mechanic in place yet, IMO.

A dozen traits, some feeling a bit weaker than some of the 'better' ones from the Second Darkness Players Guide, are also scattered throughout the book.

I'm quite fond of the Healy Myrrh alchemical creation. More alchemy is always nice.

Liberty's Edge

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Coridan wrote:

Just got the hardcopy today and looked through it. Two comments

One: I'd like to see all the player-crunch in one spot, having the traits/feats/spells smattered here and there is very frustrating if you are trying to find something you remember seeing in a book somewhere.

Coridan, I'd like to point something out that may help in this regard. If you are using Acrobat, you can go to edit>search and select a directory, searching all PDFs in the given directory for the text in the search box.

Neat, I wonder if Foxit does that too. Anywho it's just as frustrating searching through the hardcopies.


@Brian Cortijo:
The Daivrat came up in a discussion re: the changes to the Summon Monster lists in the Final Rules.
(specifically Genies no longer being on the Summon Monster lists, i.e. combat time-scale casting time)

I was just wondering if you could comment on that topic (and how the Summon changes were taken into account in the Daivrat's design), if we should expect future Summoning spells including Genies. Obviously, Daivrats' requirement of "having friendly contact with a Genie" probably means they are running into Genies semi-regularly, and could at least use Sending to contact a friendly Genie they already know (which is 5th level, but they should be able to contact Genies on the same Plane with lesser spells). The only other means I thought of to contact Genies not on the Material plane is briefly Summoning a Mephit, and getting it to tell a Genie on it's home plane that "Joe the Daivrat" is requesting assistance. If you could comment on how you over-all foresee the Daivrat functioning at all levels, I think that would be very useful, given all the changes in the final Rules.

Relatedly, you previously mentioned how Planar Binding doesn't actually need to be 'non-consensual', etc.
For such cases, would skipping the Magic Circle (as well as target's Will Saving Throw) be legitimate then? The spell itself is written in a way seemingly assuming 'non-consensuality', so any further guidance you have would be welcomed.

Contributor

Quandary wrote:

I was just wondering if you could comment on that topic (and how the Summon changes were taken into account in the Daivrat's design), if we should expect future Summoning spells including Genies. Obviously, Daivrats' requirement of "having friendly contact with a Genie" probably means they are running into Genies semi-regularly[/quote[

In Qadira, they certainly are.

Quandary wrote:
If you could comment on how you over-all foresee the Daivrat functioning at all levels, I think that would be very useful, given all the changes in the final Rules.

You can also rely on spells such as planar ally and planar binding to conjure a genie.

Quandary wrote:

Relatedly, you previously mentioned how Planar Binding doesn't actually need to be 'non-consensual', etc.

For such cases, would skipping the Magic Circle (as well as target's Will Saving Throw) be legitimate then?

I think that would be a perfectly acceptable way of showing your friendly intent toward the genie, very nicely done. :)

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I just put suli-jann in the list of additional PC races for my Katapesh / Legacy of Fire campaign, alongside aasimar and tiefling.

Incidentally, keying off the "Fiendish Sorcery" special bonus tieflings got in the Bestiary Preview, I gave suli-jann the corresponding Elemental Sorcery bonus.


? Don't they already have a bonus to CHA though ?

The Fiendish Sorcery is about Tieflings not being WORSE at (Fiendish) Sorcery,
not about making them head-and-shoulders ABOVE every other race at it...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Quandary wrote:

? Don't they already have a bonus to CHA though ?

The Fiendish Sorcery is about Tieflings not being WORSE at (Fiendish) Sorcery,
not about making them head-and-shoulders ABOVE every other race at it...

That is a fair point.

However, I wanted to tie the "planetouched" races to the corresponding sorcerous bloodlines. I started with a houserule that planetouched race sorcerers had to select their planar bloodline for their class. When I saw the Fiendish Sorcery racial trait in the Bestiary Preview, it occurred to me that using a reward for doing so (+2 effective Cha) would give PCs more flexibility than simply barring them from other bloodlines completely.

As for the -2 Cha penalty for tieflings, I'm not entirely sure I'm going to keep it in my game.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Page 3 states that the Histaqen horse race in Katheer predates the Kelish satrapy of Qadira in -43 AR, but page 16 says the first Histaqen was recorded in 1290 AR. Is this an error or am I interpreting them wrong?


The Katheeran tribes were completely illiterate at that time, as opposed to only half-illiterate in our modern era. Historians are unsure if the dating is an accurate number or if it is a non-numeric glyph representing a crude sexual gesture involving pygmy centaurs...

Contributor

delabarre wrote:
Page 3 states that the Histaqen horse race in Katheer predates the Kelish satrapy of Qadira in -43 AR, but page 16 says the first Histaqen was recorded in 1290 AR. Is this an error or am I interpreting them wrong?

Ask me again next week when (1) I'm not packing up for the big move, and (2) have a print copy of Qadira at my desk. ;)

Sczarni

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
delabarre wrote:
Page 3 states that the Histaqen horse race in Katheer predates the Kelish satrapy of Qadira in -43 AR, but page 16 says the first Histaqen was recorded in 1290 AR. Is this an error or am I interpreting them wrong?

Without having the book in front of me... the race of horse may have been wild before the Kelish one, and the first bred in captivity was 1300 years later maybe?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Page 3 states that the Histaqen horse race in Katheer predates the Kelish satrapy of Qadira in -43 AR, but page 16 says the first Histaqen was recorded in 1290 AR. Is this an error or am I interpreting them wrong?
Without having the book in front of me... the race of horse may have been wild before the Kelish one, and the first bred in captivity was 1300 years later maybe?

This is race = derby, not race = species.

Contributor

delabarre wrote:
Page 3 states that the Histaqen horse race in Katheer predates the Kelish satrapy of Qadira in -43 AR, but page 16 says the first Histaqen was recorded in 1290 AR. Is this an error or am I interpreting them wrong?

You're not interpreting wrong so much as reading more into the text than is there. Page 3 states that Katheer "became the site of a great annual horse race." It doesn't mention the Histaqen by name because that race was formalized into its current state until 1290.

Like most famous cultural events, the race that became the Histaqen has undergone a great deal of change--from a means to settle disputes and tribal rivalries to betting to political turmoil. The satrap finally put his foot down in 1290, and standardized the race's rules, procedures, and waypoints. The traditions, however, are much, much older.

The Histaqen is essentially the Qadiran Super Bowl. I could have written an absurdly-detailed 16-page dossier on the Histaqen, but frankly, that would've made for boring game reading.

Dark Archive

Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Not so fond of the Suli... seems like it's more powerful that the base races. It has 2 attribute bonuses and no penalties. The elemental power isn't very exciting unless you are going to go with monk or the Sorcerer bloodlines with claws.

Note that Elemental Assault specifically works with weapons held in the flaming/shocking/freezing/caustic hands as well, not just for unarmed attacks.

I think the Suli is a little 'too good' as well and would consider mitigating the utility of being able to choose one's own damage type (Acid, Cold, Electricity or Fire, as desired) and having four different Energy Resistances by requiring one of the following four Racial Traits;

Racial Traits
Sungazer (Suli): Your human blood has proven unable to maintain the delicate balance of all four elements in harmony that is the nature of the Janni. Your fiery blood has overpowered the other elements, and not only do you lack Acid, Cold or Electrical Resistance, but your Elemental Assault ability can only produce Fire damage. Your increased affinity with fire has made you immune to the dazzled condition, and you have a +2 to Fort saves to resist nonlethal damage from environmental heat (and even when you do take such damage, your Fire Resistance still applies). You otherwise have the usual Suli racial characteristics.

Child of the Pearl (Suli): Your human blood cannot balance the elemental forces innate to the Janni, and you are balanced towards the element of water. You do not have Acid, Electrical or Fire Resistance, and when you use your Elemental Assault ability, you only produce Cold damage. On the other hand, you also gain a +2 trait bonus to Swim checks, Fortitude checks to resist drowning and Fortitude checks to avoid nonlethal damage from dehydration. Your body draws sustenance from water, which permeates your being, and you can hold your breath underwater twice as long as others (4x Con score in rounds), and you can go three times as long without water before suffering the effects of dehydration (3 days + 3 hours / point of Con). Children of the Pearl are more varied than other Suli, and you may choose a +2 bonus to Strength, Dexterity *or* Constitution at 1st level, but do not gain a bonus to Charisma.

Stone for Bones (Suli): You lack the inner balance between the four elements that characterizes the Janni, and most Suli, being strongly attuned to the element of earth. You do not have Cold, Electrical or Fire Resistance, and when you use your Elemental Assault ability, you can only choose to inflict Acid damage. You also ignore difficult terrain modifiers in areas of broken earth or sand, but are still penalized by mud, ice, foliage, etc. You replace the Suli racial adjustment to Strength for a +2 to Constitution instead, while retaining the usual +2 to Charisma.

Skybearer (Suli): Your Janni blood has been thinned by your human heritage, and you can only balance the properties of a single element within yourself, that of air. As a result, you lack Acid, Cold and Fire Resistance, and when you use your Elemental Assault property, you can only channel Electrical damage. You get a +2 trait bonus to Jump checks and to Acrobatic checks to mitigate falling damage, and ignore the first 10 ft. of any fall for calculating falling damage. You replace the usual Suli racial adjustment to Strength with a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity, while retaining the usual +2 racial bonus to Charisma.

Reading over the race also made me want to add this Feat;

Extra Assault
Prerequisite: Elemental Assault racial ability
Effect: You gain an additional two uses of your Elemental Assault racial ability per day.

Dark Archive

What book are the stats for Suli and half janni in?

Dark Archive

Jarazix wrote:
What book are the stats for Suli and half janni in?

Also my 2E character was sort of elemental and had dark blue skin so a half janni appeals....would one you think be a playable race in pfrpg? Is it genasi like? Downloaded the book...but can't look at work

Contributor

Jarazix wrote:
What book are the stats for Suli and half janni in?

Stats for suli and half-janni are in the Qadira book.

Jarazix wrote:

Also my 2E character was sort of elemental and had dark blue skin so a half janni appeals....would one you think be a playable race in pfrpg? Is it genasi like? Downloaded the book...but can't look at work

The half-janni is more powerful than a standard race, so you'd need to take that into account when bringing the character into a campaign (PFRPG no longer uses the flat, "here's your +X level adjustment, no problems will ever arise from this!" approach).


I liked the Suli. Though I would have liked them to look a little less human like the genasi. Cold to the touch, bronze skin, webbed hands, etc etc


Montalve wrote:

I don't like Quadira...

don't take me wrong... the books i top level

I don't like the country... as a player :P
its to much Persia in both attitude and flavor, while I like the flavor... the attitude goes agaisnt what we believe.

We woudl happily fight agaisnt Quadira any time of the week!

What little I've heard/read about it makes Qadira sound like 'Classic Persia'. i.e., Persia under the Achaemenids or Sassanians. That makes it sound like the kind of place I'd want to characters to at least visit... mostly because I've been fascinated with pre-Islamic Iran ever since my SCA days (which were, what, almost 15 years ago?) and have even written some heroic fantasy set in an 'alternate' Sassanid Persia.

Sorry, just rambling. But I am glad that Pathfinder is using this country.


From what I recall of 300, it was a good, fun movie. However, it wasn't very clear on the racism issue. From the very start, they problematize the "eugenics" part of their culture, that only those children who are "normal" are allowed to live. The soothsayers are depicted as vile and disgusting people, and shown to be treated as such. The persians use many kinds of monsters, deformed and terrible, another big argument against them, seen from the "true" spartans.

And of course, this hits back as the hunchback betrays them to the persians.

And yet, nothing more is said. The spartans are still seen as heroes, through to the end.

So is the message so simplistic, that "if you're not normal, you are wicked and evil and deserve to die"? Because seeing the movie, I got the feeling a lot of this attitude was questioned in how the issue was portrayed, in particular the killing of children at the start. Anyone else had this feeling?


I though 300 was a great movie. It was slick, stylized and violent. It made me feel like waxing my chest and doing some knife katas, and maybe impaling a gay Persian giant. Sometimes that's what a man needs. No worse than some of the Dark Sun I've played that's for sure.

If I had wanted an accurate historical drama I would have been in the wrong place.

BTW: I love Qadira, Paizo. Thank you. It got me working on my alternate reality map of Katheer again.


Loved the Qadira book.
To be honest, I feel it was better laid out and more informative than the Osirion book. Qadira felt more like one the old gazetteers to me. And I loved the concept of the gazetteers of the known world (Mystara). It had more structure to it in my view.

It allowed for a much more detailed world than trying to cover all nation in depth in one book and you did not have to buy books on nations your group had no interest in.

-Weylin

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Just got my copy today.

I'm a little confused about the direction of the slave trade. Do slaves flow through Qadira out towards the empire, or only inwards toward the inner sea? What direction does the slave trade flow?

Also, whatever happened to the town of Lopul?

Lantern Lodge

In regard to the +2 Natural armor bonus to AC for the War Kilt of Sarenrae, I have 2 possible questions.

1. Is the bonus an enhancement bonus or is it some other kind of bonus?

2. Does the bonus stack with anything else?
Example: Amulet of Natural amor +1.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
WhiteTiger wrote:


In regard to the +2 Natural armor bonus to AC for the War Kilt of Sarenrae, I have 2 possible questions.

1. Is the bonus an enhancement bonus or is it some other kind of bonus?

2. Does the bonus stack with anything else?
Example: Amulet of Natural amor +1.

(1) "Natural armor" is a non-stacking AC bonus type of its own.

(2) The War Kilt will not stack with other natural armor bonuses (such as an amulet of natural armor) but will stack all other AC bonus types.


Brian Cortijo wrote:
The Histaqen is essentially the Qadiran Super Bowl. I could have written an absurdly-detailed 16-page dossier on the Histaqen, but frankly, that would've made for boring game reading.

I'd actually like to see that. I read through the book and found myself thinking that the Histaqen would make a spectacular adventure, using something along the lines of the Grand Ball in the Age of Worms AP to focus on horsemanship and skill instead of combat capabilities.

The Exchange

I don't know if this has been addressed, but I particularly love the detailed map of Katheer on page 18. It's beautiful. However, I'd have loved for more details on the Old City, and why it is divided into 3 parts. I would love to see a more detailed map with more locations, such as was done with the Pathfinder Chronicles: Cities of Golarion book.

For an overview book of Quadira, of only 32 pages (really 30, because the table of contents in front and the Coming Next! page on the back) it packs a lot in, but I have the impression that Brian Cortijo could easily fill a book twice this size with information on Katheer alone.

Anyway, I hope to see more Qadira stuff in the future.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Zeugma wrote:

For an overview book of Quadira, of only 32 pages (really 30, because the table of contents in front and the Coming Next! page on the back) it packs a lot in, but I have the impression that Brian Cortijo could easily fill a book twice this size with information on Katheer alone.

Anyway, I hope to see more Qadira stuff in the future.

Agreed. Only a handful of locations in Golarion have been sufficiently detailed at this time for a GM to run a campaign there without needing to generate lots of local content: Absalom, Katapesh, Magnimar/Sandpoint, Korvosa, Darkmoon Vale, Cheliax. edit: the River Kingdoms...Kaer Maga is forthcoming.

Hopefully there will eventually be sufficient GM source material for campaigns in all the major population centers of the Inner Sea region.

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