This looks very nice :)
@nightflier: I imagine because this is Golarion-specific material rather than general material.
So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?
Because it will be Campaign Specific information.
This is just what I wanted, thanks.
Creative Director
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So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?Because it will be Campaign Specific information.
Correct. One way to look at this book is that this'll be "Ultimate Magic done Golarion style!"
Ultimate Magic, being world neutral, means we can't use this to talk about things like cyhpermages, the Mana Wastes, named NPC spellcasters, specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
As someone who generally feels magic can be too much of a good thing, I have to say I've been jonesing for this book since I got my first teaser of Cyphermages.
So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?Because it will be Campaign Specific information.Correct. One way to look at this book is that this'll be "Ultimate Magic done Golarion style!"
Ultimate Magic, being world neutral, means we can't use this to talk about things like cyhpermages, the Mana Wastes, named NPC spellcasters, specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
On the other hand, I'm free to take all those things and dump them in my home campaign. And I will :)
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Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.
So, they probably nerdraged themselves already into oblivion over all the crunch that appeared in Golarion books over last 4 years. :P
Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.
I don't remember anyone feeling cheated over the Forgotten Realms specific "Magic of Faerun" or the Eberron specific "Magic of Eberron", so I see no reason why anyone should feel cheated over a Golarion specific "Inner Sea Magic".
Most campaign settings have "crunch" material that is specific to the setting, and that material very rarely finds its way into a "Core" product line.
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Creative Director
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Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.
Perhaps, but that kind of nerdzerker is going to get worked up anyway.
We're more interested in selling to the customers who instead look at this product as "Cool. Even MORE magic stuff! Thanks, Paizo!"
In other words: allowing the RPG line to pinch off possible books for the RPG line isn't our philosophy. Thank goodness.
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Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.Perhaps, but that kind of nerdzerker is going to get worked up anyway.
We're more interested in selling to the customers who instead look at this product as "Cool. Even MORE magic stuff! Thanks, Paizo!"
In other words: allowing the RPG line to pinch off possible books for the RPG line isn't our philosophy. Thank goodness.
I myself like and want more such products like this. i like the generic main hardback books. But I would like to see more books like this, things tied directly to the setting that is full of crunch with a bit of fluff.
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I myself like and want more such products like this. i like the generic main hardback books. But I would like to see more books like this, things tied directly to the setting that is full of crunch with a bit of fluff.Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.Perhaps, but that kind of nerdzerker is going to get worked up anyway.
We're more interested in selling to the customers who instead look at this product as "Cool. Even MORE magic stuff! Thanks, Paizo!"
In other words: allowing the RPG line to pinch off possible books for the RPG line isn't our philosophy. Thank goodness.
+1!
I myself like and want more such products like this. i like the generic main hardback books. But I would like to see more books like this, things tied directly to the setting that is full of crunch with a bit of fluff.Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.Perhaps, but that kind of nerdzerker is going to get worked up anyway.
We're more interested in selling to the customers who instead look at this product as "Cool. Even MORE magic stuff! Thanks, Paizo!"
In other words: allowing the RPG line to pinch off possible books for the RPG line isn't our philosophy. Thank goodness.
This, exactly. Having made the decision to switch from Greyhawk to Golarion after 30 plus years, I want to get my hands on every bit of setting specific crunch. My bank balance is suffering on my behalf, but there are so many excellent products on the schedules this year I just... can't... resist. I don't have a huge tolerance for fluff, though, so the only product I tend not to buy are those in the Players Companion line (sorry, but it just seems very lightweight). This, however, is GM bonanza. My kids are gonna dive into this like it was free money.
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This, exactly. Having made the decision to switch from Greyhawk to Golarion after 30 plus years, I want to get my hands on every bit of setting specific crunch. My bank balance is suffering on my behalf, but there are so many excellent products on the schedules this year I just... can't... resist. I don't have a huge tolerance for fluff, though, so the only product I tend not to buy are those in the Players Companion line (sorry, but it just seems very lightweight). This, however, is GM bonanza. My kids are gonna dive into this like it was free money.I myself like and want more such products like this. i like the generic main hardback books. But I would like to see more books like this, things tied directly to the setting that is full of crunch with a bit of fluff.Don't get me wrong - I'll buy it at some point. Probably in six months, when current AP is completed. But I think that there may be some folks out there who will consider themselves cheated because that material is separated from the crunch product line.Perhaps, but that kind of nerdzerker is going to get worked up anyway.
We're more interested in selling to the customers who instead look at this product as "Cool. Even MORE magic stuff! Thanks, Paizo!"
In other words: allowing the RPG line to pinch off possible books for the RPG line isn't our philosophy. Thank goodness.
Well to be fair since I am being quoted. I on the other hand love fluff heavy products. I think paizo makes a good number of them and it makes me happy. I would like to see some more crunch heavy campaign products though as well. So I like both, right now I get my Golarion specific fluff to make me happy, now just add more books that are crunch heavy, like this too.
Paizo "fluff" is most often well thought out, with enough depth to get you started, but not so much that you are limited with what you can do. Plus all fluff is easy to ignore if you don't like it, but with Paizo I like it far more often than I don't.
So keep up the "fluff", as long as it stays relevant and as well thought out as it usually has been.
Well I am sold already on this item.
Well to be fair since I am being quoted. I on the other hand love fluff heavy products. I think paizo makes a good number of them and it makes me happy. I would like to see some more crunch heavy campaign products though as well. So I like both, right now I get my Golarion specific fluff to make me happy, now just add more books that are crunch heavy, like this too.
Ah yes. Don't get me wrong, where would we be without fluff? I don't dislike it, per se, I just find most a bit, well, insubstantial. I like hardcore fluff. I just have flashbacks to vast swathes of poor fiction in 2nd edition modules masquerading as 'flavour text' or some other equally meaningless euphemism for 'we can't be bothered to make this adventure worth the asking price.'
Um. Bit OT. In summation; looking forward to this very muchness.
WOW! Neat. This looks like a pretty exciting product. Oracle mysteries, 18 spellcasting archetypes, 2 PrC's... Yay!!
~Dean
Cool. Even MORE magic stuff! Thanks, Paizo! ;-)
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Creative Director
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So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?Because it will be Campaign Specific information.Correct. One way to look at this book is that this'll be "Ultimate Magic done Golarion style!"
Ultimate Magic, being world neutral, means we can't use this to talk about things like cyhpermages, the Mana Wastes, named NPC spellcasters, specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
The mechanics of Thassilonian virtue and sin magic?
(Unless of course, these made it into the Inner Sea Guide?)
There's not really any such thing as Thassilonian virtue magic. But yeah; Thassilonian magic will be covered in this book.
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There's not really any such thing as Thassilonian virtue magic. But yeah; Thassilonian magic will be covered in this book.So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?Because it will be Campaign Specific information.Correct. One way to look at this book is that this'll be "Ultimate Magic done Golarion style!"
Ultimate Magic, being world neutral, means we can't use this to talk about things like cyhpermages, the Mana Wastes, named NPC spellcasters, specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
The mechanics of Thassilonian virtue and sin magic?
(Unless of course, these made it into the Inner Sea Guide?)
Is it August yet?!
Hello James,
18 archetypes, 2 prestige classes and... spells ?
I don't know yet if I want to buy this book or not. I don't want a book that is just a "more and more spells to add to your game".
Can you tell us how it will be "Golarion-specific magic stuff" and not generic stuff like the APG ? I don't really like adding more generic content to the core rules in my game (and that why I have a problem with the whole APG) but I do love add world-specific mechanics, like the prestige classes introduced in the campaign setting or the player companion lines (lion's blade, red mantis assassin, harrower, hellknight, bloatmage, living monolith, daivrat, etc.) or country-specific feats.
But campaign-specific spells ? I don't see the point. I wonder how spells can be linked to a country ?
Thalissonian sin magic, ok, I understand that, but... what else ? (Georges Clooney inside) I don't want a book with 40 pages (/64) or more on spells...
Furthermore, can you tell us the list of the 18 archetypes or it is too soon ?
Thanks for your answer.
(Ps : please excuse my bad english)
I give up. Uncle.
Subscribed to the Campaign Setting line as of today.
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Creative Director
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Can you tell us how it will be "Golarion-specific magic stuff" and not generic stuff like the APG ? I don't really like adding more generic content to the core rules in my game (and that why I have a problem with the whole APG) but I do love add world-specific mechanics, like the prestige classes introduced in the campaign setting or the player companion lines (lion's blade, red mantis assassin, harrower, hellknight, bloatmage, living monolith, daivrat, etc.) or country-specific feats.
The book hasn't yet entered development, so it's too soon to start saying specifically what is and isn't in it yet, since some stuff will be cut and other things will invariably be added.
The challenge for this book is for it all to be world specific. Some of it will be more world specific than other stuff, of course, but all of the prestige classes, oracle mysteries, and archetypes will be tied to elements from the Inner Sea region. One archetype that'll absolutely be in the book, as an example, is the "winter witch" archetype, for example, which is obviously tied to Irrisen.
As for the spells... we've been putting Golarion-specific spells into our various books since the start. Often, they're specific spells known by NPCs, but other times they're spells associated with religions or the like. Spells used specifically by a certain faith, spells invented by in-world famous NPCs like Arazni or the Ruby Prince or Karzoug or the like, and spells that are tied to unusual regions like the Worldwound or the Mana Wastes are all examples of possible spells in this book.
The new spells will take up about 15 pages or thereabouts, in any event. They'll be about a quarter of the book overall.
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Can you tell us how it will be "Golarion-specific magic stuff" and not generic stuff like the APG ? I don't really like adding more generic content to the core rules in my game (and that why I have a problem with the whole APG) but I do love add world-specific mechanics, like the prestige classes introduced in the campaign setting or the player companion lines (lion's blade, red mantis assassin, harrower, hellknight, bloatmage, living monolith, daivrat, etc.) or country-specific feats.The book hasn't yet entered development, so it's too soon to start saying specifically what is and isn't in it yet, since some stuff will be cut and other things will invariably be added.
The challenge for this book is for it all to be world specific. Some of it will be more world specific than other stuff, of course, but all of the prestige classes, oracle mysteries, and archetypes will be tied to elements from the Inner Sea region. One archetype that'll absolutely be in the book, as an example, is the "winter witch" archetype, for example, which is obviously tied to Irrisen.
As for the spells... we've been putting Golarion-specific spells into our various books since the start. Often, they're specific spells known by NPCs, but other times they're spells associated with religions or the like. Spells used specifically by a certain faith, spells invented by in-world famous NPCs like Arazni or the Ruby Prince or Karzoug or the like, and spells that are tied to unusual regions like the Worldwound or the Mana Wastes are all examples of possible spells in this book.
The new spells will take up about 15 pages or thereabouts, in any event. They'll be about a quarter of the book overall.
Now is it August yet?!
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Creative Director
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which now leaves me to wonder if that archetype is for witches, or wizards or sorcerers, or summoners( summon frozen delights)?
I loved the 3.x Frostmage.. dont care for Irrisen....
Well... since it has the word "witch" in it, and since we more or less invented the witch class to give the leaders of Irrisen a class to take... chances are slightly above 100% that the winter witch archetype is for witches. ;-)
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Well... since it has the word "witch" in it, and since we more or less invented the witch class to give the leaders of Irrisen a class to take... chances are slightly above 100% that the winter witch archetype is for witches. ;-)which now leaves me to wonder if that archetype is for witches, or wizards or sorcerers, or summoners( summon frozen delights)?
I loved the 3.x Frostmage.. dont care for Irrisen....
So is it a 101% or the much larger 110%? :D
Thanks James.
Only a quarter of the book, ok, I prefer.
It really sounds interesting.
But I don't like to have to own/use the APG (and its 6 more base classes) in order to use all the material in Inner Sea Magic.
Maybe, as suggers Steelfiredragon, you should do 2 winter witch archetypes : one for the sorcerer class (a boreal bloodline from the APG remake ?), one for the witch class...
Otherwise, I am really looking for these archetypes :
- shoanti shaman (priest ? druid ?)
- wizard archetypes related to famous Golarion's wizard schools... especially the korvosan academy-graduated one (or maybe we should use the Egorian one, in the Inner Sea Primer ?)
- bard archetypes related to famous Golarion's bard colleges
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Creative Director
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So is it a 101% or the much larger 110%? :DWell... since it has the word "witch" in it, and since we more or less invented the witch class to give the leaders of Irrisen a class to take... chances are slightly above 100% that the winter witch archetype is for witches. ;-)which now leaves me to wonder if that archetype is for witches, or wizards or sorcerers, or summoners( summon frozen delights)?
I loved the 3.x Frostmage.. dont care for Irrisen....
Closer to 103%, actually.
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Thanks James.
Only a quarter of the book, ok, I prefer.
It really sounds interesting.But I don't like to have to own/use the APG (and its 6 more base classes) in order to use all the material in Inner Sea Magic.
Maybe, as suggers Steelfiredragon, you should do 2 winter witch archetypes : one for the sorcerer class (a boreal bloodline from the APG remake ?), one for the witch class...
Otherwise, I am really looking for these archetypes :
- shoanti shaman (priest ? druid ?)
- wizard archetypes related to famous Golarion's wizard schools... especially the korvosan academy-graduated one (or maybe we should use the Egorian one, in the Inner Sea Primer ?)
- bard archetypes related to famous Golarion's bard colleges
Not to start a debate, but .... :)
Personally I want Paizo to make stuff just for the new classes from the APG. That was one of the things that made me not buy a lot of stuff in 3.x days, lack of support. Yeah this is a cool class, PrC or what have you but I know they will never support it again. I hated that.
So I just wanted to say, i am one of those glad to see APG specific support. Makes me happy.
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Closer to 103%, actually.So is it a 101% or the much larger 110%? :DWell... since it has the word "witch" in it, and since we more or less invented the witch class to give the leaders of Irrisen a class to take... chances are slightly above 100% that the winter witch archetype is for witches. ;-)which now leaves me to wonder if that archetype is for witches, or wizards or sorcerers, or summoners( summon frozen delights)?
I loved the 3.x Frostmage.. dont care for Irrisen....
Fair enough, I was being a smart ass, so you being one back is only fair. :)
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Creative Director
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Thanks James.
Only a quarter of the book, ok, I prefer.
It really sounds interesting.But I don't like to have to own/use the APG (and its 6 more base classes) in order to use all the material in Inner Sea Magic.
Maybe, as suggers Steelfiredragon, you should do 2 winter witch archetypes : one for the sorcerer class (a boreal bloodline from the APG remake ?), one for the witch class...
Otherwise, I am really looking for these archetypes :
- shoanti shaman (priest ? druid ?)
- wizard archetypes related to famous Golarion's wizard schools... especially the korvosan academy-graduated one (or maybe we should use the Egorian one, in the Inner Sea Primer ?)
- bard archetypes related to famous Golarion's bard colleges
The Advanced Player's Guide is increasingly becoming a core part of our products. While I understand the fact that not all folks own the APG, I do ask those folks to accept the fact that we built the APG, in large part, to address what we thought were "gaps" in the game. Cavaliers, witches, alchemists, inquisitors, and oracles all more or less had roles in the Inner Sea region even before the APG came out, and we chose those 5 as base classes to fill those roles. (The summoner's the only APG class that didn't really have a pre-existing role in the Inner Sea region).
Our hope is that by making the PDF of the Advanced Player's Guide only ten bucks, and by making the rules open so that they're free online at paizo.com/prd or at any one of a lot of other online fan-created sites, we get those rules out for folks who can't afford or don't own the APG in print form, so that if they see an element they're interested in showing up in another book, they can get to the rules anyway.
We won't be doing multiple winter witch archetypes in Inner Sea magic... just one, for witches. We WILL be doing a lot of other archetypes in the book though, as mentioned. And one thing in particular I want to accomplish with this book is to do some archetypes for clerics, sorcerers, and wizards, since they got NOTHING in the APG.
The rules for spellcaster schools (be they temples, wizard schools, bardic colleges, secret societies, or whatever) will be detailed in their own chapter. They're not really archetypes, but more like factions.
I understand your point of view Dark Mistress and you're right : it's useless to create classes if we don't use them after. But I wish Paizo gave us the choice to use or not to use the APG material. I would like to both options in future books : one with the APG material, one without the APG material. In the same way there were non psionics githzeraï and psionics githzeraï in D&D3... But of course, it consumes space int the book to do this, proposing the 2 options...
EDIT : arf, to slow, ninja by James
The rules for spellcaster schools (be they temples, wizard schools, bardic colleges, secret societies, or whatever) will be detailed in their own chapter. They're not really archetypes, but more like factions.
Now I am really intrigued... :)
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So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?Because it will be Campaign Specific information.Correct. One way to look at this book is that this'll be "Ultimate Magic done Golarion style!"
Ultimate Magic, being world neutral, means we can't use this to talk about things like cyhpermages, the Mana Wastes, named NPC spellcasters, specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
Yah. And many not OGL being part of Pathfinder's IP.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Yah. And many not OGL being part of Pathfinder's IP.So why is this not in Ultimate Magic?Because it will be Campaign Specific information.Correct. One way to look at this book is that this'll be "Ultimate Magic done Golarion style!"
Ultimate Magic, being world neutral, means we can't use this to talk about things like cyhpermages, the Mana Wastes, named NPC spellcasters, specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
Well, the *mechanics* in this book, as always, will be Open Content.
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How about Inner Sea-specific familiars? Specifically, improved familiars? Pretty please? I'm a big fan of pseudodragons, so I'll pester you again for more pseudodragon variants, but this is the opportunity to explore some regional options, such as domovoy or white adder (houseguardian) familiars for Irrisen, Korvosan pseudodragon/imp, talking skull from Ustalav or Geb... You get the picture.
Any chance we could see a wizard archetype that replaces the familiar / bonded object option?
Any chance we could see a feat/archtype/etc. that grants a familiar to a non arcane bloodline sorcerer, bard, etc.
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Lots of good points in this thread.
I have the APG, and so do most of my group. I'm delighted that Paizo are continuing to support it, and given that the PDF is only ten dollars it's available to most people at an affordable price.
Magic of the Inner Sea looks interesting (and even if it didn't, I wouldn't be cancelling my subscription over it ...) but as a general rule I would prefer the Campaign Setting products to be mostly fluff.
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Lots of good points in this thread.
I have the APG, and so do most of my group. I'm delighted that Paizo are continuing to support it, and given that the PDF is only ten dollars it's available to most people at an affordable price.
Magic of the Inner Sea looks interesting (and even if it didn't, I wouldn't be cancelling my subscription over it ...) but as a general rule I would prefer the Campaign Setting products to be mostly fluff.
Actually the APG contents are available for FREE as part of the PRD.