Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic (PFRPG)

4.30/5 (based on 8 ratings)
Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic (PFRPG)
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A World of Magic!

From the tortured sands of the Mana Wastes, where magic is as likely to tear you apart as it is to not work at all, to the perpetually frozen northern nation of Irrisen where the winter witches rule, magic is a part of life in the Inner Sea region. Whether it is wielded by benevolent clerics to keep their allies fighting the good fight or unleashed by wizards in the form of scorching blasts of fire, magic can be the difference between life or death. Or, as in so many cases, the cause of life or death.

    Inner Sea Magic explores the role of magic within this vast and varied region. Within this 64-page book, you will find:
  • A who’s-who of powerful and famous spellcasters from throughout the Inner Sea region
  • Details on four types of magical schools—arcane academies, spellcaster’s guilds, monasteries, and secret societies—along with rules for joining and studying with such organizations
  • Rules for several types of specialized or variant magic, including the chaotic power of primal magic, the secrets of shadowcasting, the traditions of Thassilonian sin magic, and the wonders of Varisian tattoo magic
  • Two new oracle mysteries (the primal-magic wielding spellscar mystery and the sinister Outer Rifts mystery)
  • More than a dozen new archetypes for all sorts of spellcasters, including the black-blooded oracle, the Razmiran priest, the shadowcaster wizard, the tattooed sorcerer, and the winter witch
  • Two new prestige classes—the cyphermage and the divine scion
  • Dozens of new spells, from Aroden’s spellward to zone of foul flames!

Inner Sea Magic is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be used in any fantasy game setting.

by Jesse Benner, Jason Nelson, Sean K Reynolds, Owen K.C. Stephens, and Russ Taylor

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-360-6

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscription.

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4.30/5 (based on 8 ratings)

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Interesting Variant Rules, and Packed Full of Player Options

4/5

Inner Sea Magic is a 64-page entry in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting line that contains an impressive amount of information about everything from magical schools to variant types of spellcasting and more. It's full of new spells, archetypes, and even a couple of prestige classes, and I found myself impressed and intrigued by most of the options presented. I will say this is another product that seems to blur the division between the Campaign Setting line (intended for GMs) and the Player's Companion line (intended for players), as players will get as much or more use out of this book as GMs. But in the end that doesn't keep this from being a quality book that is definitely worth getting.

The inside front cover is a map of the Inner Sea region with the location of important magic schools listed. The inside back cover is a reproduction of the cover without any logos or title. The contents are divided into five sections: Magic of the Inner Sea, Variant Magic, Magic Schools, Spellcasters of the Inner Sea, and Spells.

Section 1, Magic of the Inner Sea, is six pages long. It begins with a brief overview (1 paragraph each) of regions in the Inner Sea that are particularly noteworthy in regards to magic: Geb, Irrisen, Jalmeray, the Mana Wastes, Nex, Nidal, Thuvia, Varisia, and the Worldwound. The rest of the section is a list of fifty(!) noted spellcasters in the Inner Sea, each with a one-line description, class and level, and a head-shot. I don't recall seeing anything like this before, but I actually really liked it. It's basically a "Who's Who" of magical power in known Golarion. My only suggestion is that it would have been better to use the inside front and inside back covers for this sort of reference information, thus freeing up a couple of pages in the interior for exposition.

Section 2, Variant Magic, is ten pages long and definitely something I'll make use of. It presents seven variant systems of spellcasting that are tied to a particular region or theme, and are perfect for NPCs or (with GM permission) PCs that hail from that area. Included in this section is False Divine Magic (Razmiran spellcasters who disguise arcane magic as divine), Fleshwarping (not really a different way of casting spells, but a way to transform creatures), Primal Magic (otherwise known as "wild magic", this section includes rules on primal magic areas, how primal magic events are triggered, and a great table on sample effects that could result); Riffle Scrolls (a slightly different method of scroll-casting that I didn't really get the purpose of, either in the novel Prince of Wolves or here); Shadowcasting (drawing from the plane of shadow; this section includes four new feats); Tattoo Magic (favoured by Varisians), and Thassilonian Magic (basically super-specializing in a school of magic; includes a great picture of the Runelord Sorshen). The options presented here were quite flavourful but also seemed (without play-testing) mechanically viable.

Section 3, Magic Schools, is ten pages long and presents a full rules sub-system for handling PCs who enroll at a magical school, including the cost, the benefits (socially and mechanically) they gain from their education, what it takes to avoid flunking out, and so forth. The sub-system is designed to track the students' Fame (which they earn by making Education checks a certain number of times per semester) and Prestige Points (which they earn by completing specific tasks). Fame is used to track a students' progress and privileges (everything from library access at one end to becoming a full professor and receiving a salary at the other) while Prestige Points can be spent to receive specific favors which vary based on the school, such as gaining an Imp Minion or a discount on the purchase of poisons. Formally, the system distinguishes between Academies (arcane education), Guilds (item creation), Monasteries (divine instruction), and Secret Societies (hidden goals). The following schools are detailed, each customized to reflect different entrance fees, tuition costs, exams, extracurricular tasks, and awards: the Acadamae (Korvosa's school of demonic conjuration), the Arcanamirium (Absalom's school of "practical magic"), the Magaambya (a long-standing school in Nantambu in the Mwangi Expanse), the Kintargo Opera House (bardic college in Cheliax), the Oenopion Fleshforges (fleshwarping laboratory in Nex), the Poisoner's Guild (in the River Kingdoms), the White Grotto (a bardic college in Absalom), Citadel Enferac (Hellknight stronghold in Cheliax), the Harrowed Society (Varisian fortune-tellers in Galduria), and the Crimson Citadel (Red Mantis assassins!). Monasteries receive a two-page spread that are not geographically specific, but instead lists a faith-specific award that students can spend prestige points on. Each of the core deities receive one entry. I think the concept of magic schools, and the system presented, would be fantastic fun to use. However, I think it probably would require the entire campaign to be centered around the premise, as otherwise most campaigns don't last long enough (in terms of in-game months) to make a semester structure viable. There is a brief sidebar that suggests a method to cope with this, but I think it could lead to PCs rising from students to Full Professors in the space of what could be only a few months of in-game time, which seems unrealistic. But then, Pathfinder is full of unrealistic things, so that might not be a problem for most. Where I see the Magic Schools sub-system receiving the most value is in a "Harry Potter" style campaign where all the PCs attend the same magic school and compete for fame and prestige while handling missions presented by the school (or foiling threats to the school).

Section 4, Spellcasters of the Inner Sea, is a twenty-page section that tries to offer something for everyone. It's basically a miscellany of everything from new oracle mysteries to new archetypes to new prestige classes. The two new oracle mysteries are Spellscar (centered around primal magic) and Outer Rifts (related to the incursion of the chaotic evil Abyss into the Material Plane). Next, the section lists 19(!) new archetypes. This is already a long review, so I won't list them all here. The ones I've heard a lot about include Crypt Breaker archetype for alchemists (another attack on poor rogues), the Dawnflower Dervish archetype for bards (doubling the benefits of bardic performance, but limiting their application to the bard), and the Winter Witch archetype for witches (pretty much every spellcaster in Irrisen!). Most of the archetypes look pretty good, but there are a couple like Mendevian Priest and Oenopion Researcher that I think could have been fleshed out more. Last, there are two new prestige classes, each with a full two-page spread. The Cyphermage is an expert in written and runic magic from long study of the famous Cyphergate in Riddleport. I really like the flavour of this prestige class, but most of the special abilities apply only to scrolls or other magical writing (like runes or symbols), and, at least in the games I'm involved in, I don't know how useful they would really be. The other prestige class, the Divine Scion, didn't do much for me (apart from a cool picture of Nualia). This divine-focussed prestige class is pretty bland thematically, as it's basically just a super-worshipper of any faith, and the special abilities consist of getting a low-level spell as a spell-like ability and another miscellaneous bonus (tied to the PCs domains), and some other moderate bonuses based on alignment. I think it tries too hard to be available to any faith and just comes across as pretty generic.

Last but not least, is Section 5: Spells. This section starts with a cool picture of the Iconic witch fighting a woolly mammoth with Ice Spears, one of the new spells introduced here. Spellcasters shouldn't be disappointed, as 39 new spells appear here, with at least a couple of options for every spellcasting class (even Alchemist and Summoner). The rich get richer, of course, as Clerics and Wizards/Sorcerors get by far the most new options.

Overall, I quite liked Inner Sea Magic. The sections on Variant Magic and Magic Schools were real highlights, and I could see them adding a lot to the right campaign. The player-focussed options presented (archetypes, spells, etc.) are more the sort of thing that could be found in any book, and I wish that as a Campaign Setting book this one would have spent more time on material that would be unlikely to appear elsewhere. Still, all in all this is a solid buy.


5/5

I've reviewed this on RPGGeek.com.

You can read it here.


Not what I was hoping for

2/5

I'm a big fan of the Pathfinder game rules (core rule book, advanced player's guide, gamemaster guide, and the monster manuals) and adventure paths for their atmosphere and creativity. However a few products I bought, among others this one, don't bring this particular atmosphere that I came to expect. If you're thinking of buying this one, check first if it's really what you're after.


Magic, customized and so very, very cool.

5/5

Another great suppliment with tons of great ideas to spark memorible characters. See my full review: Inner Sea Magic


An Indispensible Guide to Golarion Magic

4/5

See my full review here.

Inner Sea Magic takes an in-depth look at how magic is used in the Inner Sea Region of Golarion and, in turn, a bit of how that magic affects the setting. Unlike many other Campaign Setting products, Inner Sea Magic has a quite large amount of “crunch”, i.e. game mechanics information such as new rules systems, archetypes, spells, etc., instead of “fluff”, which is story and descriptive material. This makes it a product more in the style of a book like Ultimate Magic than most books in this line. However, whereas Ultimate Magic is a generic look at magic in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Inner Sea Magic looks at magic with a very Golarion-specific spin.

In general, I really like that most Campaign Setting books are fluff-heavy, as that’s the kind of thing I most enjoy reading when learning about a game world. There’s enough crunch in the generic books that, unless it’s very specific to the setting, more is not really needed in a world book. As such, I had a few reservations going into this book. Most of those reservations, however, quickly subsided. This is not just a book with a gazillion new feats and spells that the game doesn’t really need. There are full details on variant magic styles that other Campaign Setting books have only hinted at, new class archetypes that explore these styles, an overview of prominent spellcasters across the Inner Sea, and details on the most prominent magical schools and academies. They are all things that can enrich any game set in Golarion.

There are quite a few new archetypes in the book. Many of these archetypes will be far more useful than those in books like the Advanced Player’s Guide or Ultimate Magic as these ones fit seamlessly into the setting and bring with them the flavour of the setting. To use archetypes from generic sources, you either need to use very generic archetypes (which are less flavourful) or shoehorn them into a setting they don’t quite fit in. I love the tattooed sorcerer, in particular. We’ve heard about Varisian tattoo magic in previous books, but until now, it’s been represented by nothing more than a single feat that only grants a bonus spell and a boosted caster level to a specific school. Now, tattooed sorcerers gain a familiar that can transform itself into a tattoo and hide out on their bodies. They can create tattoos that are magical items or can store spells in their tattoos. There is actually a point to Varisian tattoos now.

Overall, Inner Sea Magic is a very good book that finally fleshes out a lot of things that have only been hinted at in previous products. People expecting the usual amount of “fluff” in a Pathfinder Campaign Setting book, however, may be a bit surprised by the very high amount of “crunch”. However, it’s mostly useful and flavourful crunch that enhances and expands the setting. It will be an indispensable book for most games set in Golarion.


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OK James, you win. I have bought the APG.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:


The Advanced Player's Guide is increasingly becoming a core part of our products. While I understand the fact that not all folks own the APG, I do ask those folks to accept the fact that we built the APG, in large part, to address what we thought were "gaps" in the game. Cavaliers, witches, alchemists, inquisitors, and oracles all more or less had roles in the Inner Sea region even before the APG came out, and we chose those 5 as base classes to fill those roles. (The summoner's the only APG class that didn't really have a pre-existing role in the Inner Sea region).

Our hope is that by making the PDF of the Advanced Player's Guide only ten bucks, and by making the rules open so that they're free online at paizo.com/prd or at any one of a lot of other online fan-created sites, we get those rules out for folks who can't afford or don't own the APG in print form, so that if they see an element they're interested in showing up in another book, they can get to the rules anyway.

Importantly, by treating the APG as part of the core part of your products, you can incorporate it into your Adventure Paths so that the adventures you produce can become new, fresh and reasonably well balanced for those classes in the APG.

It's very clear that you are now doing this, too. The Carrion Crown AP is rife with such exmaples.

That's a big plus, in my books.

If it were otherwise, there would be an inevitable growing disconnect between the way many Pathfinder players are playing the game, and the default assumptions within Paizo's adventure products. If that were to happen? Things would become increasingly creaky and will ultimately break in terms of the adventure product's utility to all players and GMs. That's not a good thing.

All by way of saying: I am a BIG FAN of Paizo choosing to treat the APG as part of its core design and underlying default assumptions in the game and I believe it to be a decision which is in the long-term interest of all fans of the game.

Big Thumbs Up.

Liberty's Edge

This looks AWESOME.


James Jacobs wrote:
The Advanced Player's Guide is increasingly becoming a core part of our products. While I understand the fact that not all folks own the APG, I do ask those folks to accept the fact that we built the APG, in large part, to address what we thought were "gaps" in the game.

1. Oddly, I'm glad to see acknowledgment that the APG is essentially core rulebook #3. Certainly the monthly Adventure Path has been treating it as such for several months.

2. Given #1, Advanced Player's Guide seems like a sub-optimal name. ;)

3. Can we expect to see the APG added to the PFS core assumption?

As I've said in the past, I don't particularly care for APG being core, but I can live with it. Heck, I even saw the writing on the wall and picked up the APG in print.

However, I have one request: Please make the APG explicitly core -- the current "core in everything but name" situation is a bit confusing.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
bugleyman wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The Advanced Player's Guide is increasingly becoming a core part of our products. While I understand the fact that not all folks own the APG, I do ask those folks to accept the fact that we built the APG, in large part, to address what we thought were "gaps" in the game.

1. Oddly, I'm glad to see acknowledgment that the APG is essentially core rulebook #3. Certainly the monthly Adventure Path has been treating it as such for several months.

2. Given #1, Advanced Player's Guide seems like a sub-optimal name. ;)

3. Can we expect to see the APG added to the PFS core assumption?

As I've said in the past, I don't particularly care for APG being core, but I can live with it. Heck, I even saw the writing on the wall and picked up the APG in print.

However, I have one request: Please make the APG explicitly core -- the current "core in everything but name" situation is a bit confusing.

*dons the asbestos suit, fires up the flamethrower* So, about that whole idea of "core"...

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:


*dons the asbestos suit, fires up the flamethrower* So, about that whole idea of "core"...

core get errata, non-core doesn't seems like a good definition to me...


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
chopswil wrote:
core get errata, non-core doesn't seems like a good definition to me...

Reprinted books get errata, Adventure's Armory has some. Of course, anything in the hardcover line is much more likely to get reprinted if stocks are low. I would expect the new Inner Sea Guide to also be on their list of products they always want to have in stock.


To me, the most useful definition is: Material assumed by the flagship product (the monthly Adventure Path). Given the regular inclusion of APG content in Serpent's Skull, I think we're there already, so for clarity's sake it might as well be explicit.

Not fishing for a flame-war either way. :)


deinol wrote:
I would expect the new Inner Sea Guide to also be on their list of products they always want to have in stock.

Agreed. In fact, if I'm not mistaken they've said as much.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

bugleyman wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The Advanced Player's Guide is increasingly becoming a core part of our products. While I understand the fact that not all folks own the APG, I do ask those folks to accept the fact that we built the APG, in large part, to address what we thought were "gaps" in the game.

1. Oddly, I'm glad to see acknowledgment that the APG is essentially core rulebook #3. Certainly the monthly Adventure Path has been treating it as such for several months.

2. Given #1, Advanced Player's Guide seems like a sub-optimal name. ;)

3. Can we expect to see the APG added to the PFS core assumption?

As I've said in the past, I don't particularly care for APG being core, but I can live with it. Heck, I even saw the writing on the wall and picked up the APG in print.

However, I have one request: Please make the APG explicitly core -- the current "core in everything but name" situation is a bit confusing.

When we were working under WotC with the license to do the magazines, our philosophy was that only the three main rulebooks—the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual, were the "CORE" rulebooks. Why? Because not only could we assume that every GM owned those books, but they were in the SRD, which meant that even if a GM didn't own the books, he could get to the rules for free by looking at one of countless online resources, from the official WotC SRD to websites like d20srd.org. Very few of the other books WotC produced were open content, and thus the only way to get to those books was to buy the books, and so we didn't assume they were core books. Furthermore, WotC produced a HUGE amount of hardcover supplements... sometimes more than one a month... and thus it was ridiculous to assume all gamers could keep up with that very aggressive release schedule.

We're in uncharted territory still with Pathifnder. Unlike the WotC model, we're keeping all of the rules content of our hardcovers as open content, and thus those rules are a LOT easier to get to and check out, since they're all free online. Furthermore, we're only doing 3 or so hardcovers a year. That's a small fraction of the books WotC put out in a year for 3rd edition. The combination of fewer books and having their rules content be open and, essentially, free, means that we're a LOT more comfortable relaxing as to what we're completely reprinting in adventures and supplements. This is pretty liberating for us, since not having to fully reprint all the rules for a witch or for an umbral dragon or whatever gives us more room to use that space for actual NEW content.

Despite this... you really DON'T need anything but the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary to play the game. Furthermore... since we use the word "CORE" in the title of our core rulebook... saying that othter books that don't have the word "CORE" in their titles are core rulebooks would be even MORE confusing.

So as a result, we're taking a less hands-on approach. Honestly... the only one who should be able to decide what is and isn't "Core" for any game is that game's GM.


James Jacobs wrote:
Despite this... you really DON'T need anything but the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary to play the game. Furthermore... since we use the word "CORE" in the title of our core rulebook... saying that othter books that don't have the word "CORE" in their titles are core rulebooks would be even MORE confusing.

But doesn't this situation already exist in the form of the Bestiary (explicitly core, but doesn't have "core" in the title)?

Also, I'd argue that if you want to use the Adventure Path, you really need the APG (in one form or another). If I pick up Carrion Crown, which books do I need to run it? That's the concept of core that really matters.

Dark Archive

none because the PRD is up for free.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

bugleyman wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Despite this... you really DON'T need anything but the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary to play the game. Furthermore... since we use the word "CORE" in the title of our core rulebook... saying that othter books that don't have the word "CORE" in their titles are core rulebooks would be even MORE confusing.

But doesn't this situation already exist in the form of the Bestiary (explicitly core, but doesn't have "core" in the title)?

Also, I'd argue that if you want to use the Adventure Path, you really need the APG (in one form or another). If I pick up Carrion Crown, which books do I need to run it? That's the concept of core that really matters.

For Carrion Crown, you'll want the Core Rulebook, Bestiary 1, Bestiary 2, GameMastery Guide, and the Advanced Player's Guide.

Although at the game table, you'll likely be able to get away with only having the Core Rulebook and the 2 Bestiaries handy for most of it.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
none because the PRD is up for free.

*sigh* Yes, I get it. But that's beside the point. Why? Because Paizo is a print company. That's where they make their money. For the sake of argument, assume someone wants books. Or they don't have Internet access. Or whatever.

My point is that: 1. The concept of core explicitly exists, and 2. The most functional definition of "core" I can come up with is this: Which books do I need to use this product?


James Jacobs wrote:

For Carrion Crown, you'll want the Core Rulebook, Bestiary 1, Bestiary 2, GameMastery Guide, and the Advanced Player's Guide.

Although at the game table, you'll likely be able to get away with only having the Core Rulebook and the 2 Bestiaries handy for most of it.

James, I truly appreciate you taking the time to answer that question (even though it was rhetorical).

It still seems to me that "core" is conceptually vague, a situation I'd like to see remedied. However, it seems I'm either not getting my point across or folks simply don't agree. Either one is fine. :)


bugleyman,

I understand what you are saying and what is needed is a descriptive word that is in between core and optional. To me, the one or two books needed to make a character and run a game are the core books, no matter the game system. Next are the additional main books that contain more spells or additional base classes or basically anything that the publisher feels should not need approval from the GM for a player to use. Third are all the books labeled as optional by the publisher or those from 3PPs.

Also, I think "Core" can sound vague and confusing because that is what they are called in the PFS "core assumption" material. I think if that had never been done or if that phrase were changed, maybe we would be less confused by what is core and what is not.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:

bugleyman,

I understand what you are saying and what is needed is a descriptive word that is in between core and optional. To me, the one or two books needed to make a character and run a game are the core books, no matter the game system. Next are the additional main books that contain more spells or additional base classes or basically anything that the publisher feels should not need approval from the GM for a player to use. Third are all the books labeled as optional by the publisher or those from 3PPs.

Also, I think "Core" can sound vague and confusing because that is what they are called in the PFS "core assumption" material. I think if that had never been done or if that phrase were changed, maybe we would be less confused by what is core and what is not.

"Recommended"? Nice to have, definitely will enhance the use of the adventure, but not (absolutely) vital, especially if one has access to the PRD?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bugley, the real question is, who cares apart from you and Seeker?

If we see a flood of AP subs cancellations due to "Core Violation", yeah, sure, but I don't see it happening as of now.

Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:

Bugley, the real question is, who cares apart from you and Seeker?

If we see a flood of AP subs cancellations due to "Core Violation", yeah, sure, but I don't see it happening as of now.

I'm a RPG subscriber, so I have all the books anyway. So I don't care.

However, in the extremely unlikely event that Paizo brought out (say) Ultimate Magic 2 and I hated it and refused to buy it, and then Paizo plastered UM2 material all over their next AP, then it would become an issue.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
amethal wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

Bugley, the real question is, who cares apart from you and Seeker?

If we see a flood of AP subs cancellations due to "Core Violation", yeah, sure, but I don't see it happening as of now.

I'm a RPG subscriber, so I have all the books anyway. So I don't care.

However, in the extremely unlikely event that Paizo brought out (say) Ultimate Magic 2 and I hated it and refused to buy it, and then Paizo plastered UM2 material all over their next AP, then it would become an issue.

Yeah, but given that according to what is known the Ultimate Combat will be the last "generic splatbook" in the RPG line, with el weirdo stuff like epic rules and monsters-as-PCs books next, so I doubt that we will have an over-saturation of material anyway.


James Jacobs wrote:
...specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.

Oooo...did The Twilight Academy (Galduria in Varisia) make the cut?

Dark Archive

I find the idea of two different books for "generic rules" and "setting specific fluff/crunch" a great way to go.


Gorbacz wrote:
Bugley, the real question is, who cares apart from you and Seeker?

I'd submit that someone who picks up an AP volume from the shelf, and with no prior knowledge of Paizo, asks "Cool! Which books do I need to play this?" cares very much.

But since that doesn't describe you, it can't be important...right?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Gorbacz wrote:
Bugley, the real question is, who cares apart from you and Seeker?

I care for one, and have fought this battle before.

I'm just more resigned than Bugley. (Well that and the need to shower after realizing we agree on something) ;-)


Matthew Morris wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Bugley, the real question is, who cares apart from you and Seeker?

I care for one, and have fought this battle before.

I'm just more resigned than Bugley. (Well that and the need to shower after realizing we agree on something) ;-)

Come to the dark side -- we don't bathe. :)


I doubt it, but I will ask anyway, will there be in any new magic items in this book?

Dark Archive

bugleyman wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
none because the PRD is up for free.

*sigh* Yes, I get it. But that's beside the point. Why? Because Paizo is a print company. That's where they make their money. For the sake of argument, assume someone wants books. Or they don't have Internet access. Or whatever.

My point is that: 1. The concept of core explicitly exists, and 2. The most functional definition of "core" I can come up with is this: Which books do I need to use this product?

Well I was actually being serious. In that if you could ask on the forum what you needed, that you can get it all free at PRD. I wasn't trying to be snarky about it. Now that your position is more clear and I see what your asking.

1) Core as a concept does indeed exist, I agree.
2) From what I gather and this is purely my own point of view. To me Paizo has core and then recommend. Core is always used in every adventure, AP etc they make. They are then sprinkled with optional stuff, but that optional stuff constantly changes.

So my guess is
Core = PFRPG book, Bestiary 1, GM Guide
Those two seem to always be used no matter what. While
Optional = Bestiary 2, APG etc
While most products have some of them in it, it is different and some parts of those books still have not shown up.

Anyways that's my take on the whole core issue for Paizo.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

While I understand bugleyman's point, I don't really see a random person picking up an Adventure Path (especially since it's labeled 1 of 6) and saying "Hey, this looks like a cool game system, I think I'll run this."

It really does vary based on what you're doing. Are you playing PFS? Running a home-brew campaign? Running a module? Running an Adventure Path?"

Each one of those assumes different books. I think the whole concept of defining the "core books" fails to be helpful in any real sense of the word, given the number of contexts it could be used under.

Probably the best Paizo can do is what they have done - print a blurb in the AP saying where the rules can be found.

In my mind, the only unfortunate part of the whole thing is the humongo tome that is the core rulebook. I understand *why* it was released as one book instead of a player/GM pair of books, but that means anyone who's just a player has no option but to get the GM material as well.

Obviously a moot point at this time :)

Dark Archive

Dragon78 wrote:
I doubt it, but I will ask anyway, will there be in any new magic items in this book?

Don't quote me on this. But I think it was said their would be a few Golarion specific magic items in this book. Though I might be thinking of a different product.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

mempter wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
...specific spellcaster schools in the Inner Sea region, and so on.
Oooo...did The Twilight Academy (Galduria in Varisia) make the cut?

The "cut" has yet to happen, since development for the book has not yet begun.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I doubt it, but I will ask anyway, will there be in any new magic items in this book?
Don't quote me on this. But I think it was said their would be a few Golarion specific magic items in this book. Though I might be thinking of a different product.

Nope; not really any new magic items in this book.

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I doubt it, but I will ask anyway, will there be in any new magic items in this book?
Don't quote me on this. But I think it was said their would be a few Golarion specific magic items in this book. Though I might be thinking of a different product.
Nope; not really any new magic items in this book.

Likely a different one I was thinking of. You guys make so many good ones, i often get confused what is in what.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I removed a handful of posts that were taking things too personally and generally not actually contributing to the discussion. Replies to these posts were also removed.


couple of things:

1) this book is already purchased, Paizo just wont get the money till later, lol

2) regarding the whole setting vs non-setting stuff, i LOVE both. just did a quick count and about 1/3 of my D&D library of both 3.5 and Pathfinder is setting specific. I have most of the books from FR and Eberron and am slowly but surely working on getting as many for Golarion as well.

3) in response to the "Core" debate: really people? we're arguing over which word best describes the books you need to play Pathfinder?

to me, the only book that is "Core" is the PFRPG Rulebook, aka the tome of death(cuz u easily kill somebody with it...just sayin). Everything else is optional, as a GM could create n run monsters himself, players can create their own PrCs, archtypes, etc and one could easily make their own world.

the PFRPG rulebook has all the basic info to create base characters and play the game, without needing to ever branch out into another book. That to me is "Core"


"Core" is what you need to play the game: the Core Rulebook and Bestiary. "Optional" is everything else. "Common" is what the Adventure Paths assume: the Core Rulebook, GameMastery Guide, Advanced Player's Guide, and Bestiary 1 & 2. "Discretionary" is everything else.

In the same vein, a "threat" is what you do to a square when you're holding a weapon that could make an attack of opportunity (if you had one) into it, which is generally a non-whip melee weapon. An attack roll that gives a chance to confirm a critical hit is a "potential" crit.

Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. <nods wisely>


Well, I for one, am keen on seeing "Inner Sea Combat" - that is the non-magical version of "Inner Sea Magic".

And if it makes a difference, I'll be happy with 8 pages of spells or less. The more crunch is on the classes/archetypes/feats the better.


Gorbacz wrote:
Yeah, but given that according to what is known the Ultimate Combat will be the last "generic splatbook" in the RPG line, with el weirdo stuff like epic rules and monsters-as-PCs books next, so I doubt that we will have an over-saturation of material anyway.

Is this confirmed? I'm not keen on psionics, epics and monsters-as-PCs. (To that end, I'm not sure what some people are clamoring for: an additional sub-system to handle a different type of psionic-magic? I rather have more variants/archetypes of existing things. I have no trouble with calling mage armor "mind over matter", so my psions are already making Golarion a better place.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
LoreKeeper wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Yeah, but given that according to what is known the Ultimate Combat will be the last "generic splatbook" in the RPG line, with el weirdo stuff like epic rules and monsters-as-PCs books next, so I doubt that we will have an over-saturation of material anyway.

Is this confirmed? I'm not keen on psionics, epics and monsters-as-PCs. (To that end, I'm not sure what some people are clamoring for: an additional sub-system to handle a different type of psionic-magic? I rather have more variants/archetypes of existing things. I have no trouble with calling mage armor "mind over matter", so my psions are already making Golarion a better place.)

It seems that all three topics (pisonics, epics, monsters PCs) have a steady following, so I think that books on those are inevitable.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Gorbacz wrote:
It seems that all three topics (pisonics, epics, monsters PCs) have a steady following, so I think that books on those are inevitable.

Though for some of us GMs, it's actually monster NPCs that we're looking for. The players at my table will probably never play characters that have monstrous races.

Other GM's mileage may vary :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We haven't confirmed anything about Ultimate Combat being the last player option hardcover we'll ever do... but I can say this: I'm eager to move on to other topics for hardcovers.

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