Gothic Heroes: Pregenerated Characters (PFRPG)

BTW how would you pronounce Ysabot?

What Clark said... ;-)

Her name is basically a variation of the names Isabelle and Isolde (or Yseult) from French literature (i.e., Tristan and Isolde). While reviewing and proofreading my handover, Jason Nelson pretty much asked the same question, "How do you pronounce Ysabot?" And, that's when we decided to incorporate a pronunciation guide into the first paragraph of each character's description.

Was not including advancement notes for Theodric more a space thing, or an eidolon flexibility thing? I know their evolutions aren't writ in stone, just wondered what the author thought.

Space was an issue. Plus, eidolons can have so much variability from level to level, I decided to focus primarily on giving you the base description for Theodric and let the players or GM take him from there.

If I were going to advance him, I'd stay focused on elevating his abilities as a medieval knight from the days of the Shining Crusade. In essence, in his eidolon form, Theodric would be "rediscovering" himself and whatever abilities he once had in his former life. So, his skill points would be spent on elevating skills that would make sense for a knight to have (e.g., Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, and even Ride). Same for his feats (Power Attack or Weapon Focus (greatsword), and eventually something like Dodge, Toughness, Vital Strike, etc.).

His evolutions would likely focus on ability increases (alternating between Str and Con, primarily), improved natural armor, possibly weapon training, magic attacks, slams (to replace his claws), energy attacks (to power up his slams), resistance and/or immunity, and so on. You could even go the route of giving him base magic (stabilize), minor magic (cure light wounds), major magic (cure moderate wounds), and ultimate magic (cure serious wounds) if you wanted to use the evolutions from Ultimate Magic and hint at a former life as a paladin.

Neil you are a machine :)

He is indeed my Lord Orcus..but even a construct needs to chill out sometimes.Don't overdo it Neil I'd hate to see you burn out mate.

For anyone who's interested, we're close to having this up on DriveThruRPG soon. Treasury of the Macabre is already available there, I believe.

Dark_Mistress wrote:

BTW how would you pronounce Ysabot?

What Clark said... ;-)

Her name is basically a variation of the names Isabelle and Isolde (or Yseult) from French literature (i.e., Tristan and Isolde).

My first thought was like Michelle Pfieffer's character in Ladyhawke, so, yeah, Eez-ah-bow.

My first thought was like Michelle Pfieffer's character in Ladyhawke, so, yeah, Eez-ah-bow.

Yep. That was in my head, too. I'm a big fan of that movie. Michelle Pfeiffer's character was named Isabeau. But I wanted a different spelling with a similar pronunciation.

Looks like a member of the messageboard community has decided to run a Play-by-Post Carrion Crown campaign using these pregens. Awesome!

Looks like a member of the messageboard community has decided to run a Play-by-Post Carrion Crown campaign using these pregens. Awesome!

That is pretty cool :)

I guess we need to get our permissions into the modern age. They currently say "permission granted to photocopy for home game use." I guess that should just say "permission granted to share or copy for home game use."

This is such a cool product, I'm suprised there aren't more like it out there. What would you do next, Jade Regent or an older one, just out of curiousity.

He is indeed my Lord Orcus..but even a construct needs to chill out sometimes.Don't overdo it Neil I'd hate to see you burn out mate.

He prefers to be called Big Daddy Orcus.

I must admit that I'm a bit flabbergasted by the success of this product. I never suspected that pre-generated characters would sell so well that it'd be on the Top Sellers category here.

For those who have purchased it, what got you to buy it?

This is such a cool product, I'm suprised there aren't more like it out there. What would you do next, Jade Regent or an older one, just out of curiousity.

We're still analyzing how this product does to sort of gage the demand for it. Really, any of the APs could be in play for another set of pregen PCs. The older ones are easier to do, because we've got the whole breadth of the AP to inspire us for what types of characters would most excel at/enjoy that kind of campaign. But, obviously, there's also something to be said for the synergy of releasing these kinds of characters as close to a new AP's schedule as possible. Clearly, we wouldn't do so without the respective AP's Player's Guide being available, though.

Out of curiosity, for those of you who bought this product (or think you might be interested in buying these kind of products), which AP would you like to see us do next?

The Numerian one that you guys are secretly working on.

Out of curiosity, for those of you who bought this product (or think you might be interested in buying these kind of products), which AP would you like to see us do next?

For various reasons, I think I would like to see a collection of pregens for an AP detailing the return of an ancient wizard and his army of giants as they threaten a frontier wilderness town.

(In case it matters, I am one of those who did drop the $5 on the Gothic pregens.)

I second the Rise of the Runelords, or more specifically a Varisian themed group. That way you can cover Runelords, Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Jade Regent all at once.

I'd also think about a nautical theme. Something for both Serpent and Shackles if that is possible.

As far as why I got the product to begin with. Part of it had to do with the old Necromancer games and the connection with Clark Peterson. It's the same reason I've picked up some of the Frog God Games items. I loved the old stuff and figured I'd love the new.

Additionally I feel that the adventure paths are missing that one element. I can see that players making their own characters is important. But pregenerated characters can help you figure out how to bring a party together and how to begin the adventure the right way. The pregenerated characters in the AP's (Ezren, Kyra, etc.) have backgrounds that have nothing to do with the story. I understand that as iconics they don't need to fit the story, but they aren't good models for PC's or DM's.

And it didn't hurt that I liked the art and general look of the product.

Hope that answers your question.

This is such a cool product, I'm suprised there aren't more like it out there. What would you do next, Jade Regent or an older one, just out of curiousity.

Neil likes creating characters, so in the end it will likely be his call. But my vote is for Jade Regent and Shackles and Skulls next.

LG is a funny company. With the "all star team" concept, I dont really run it like I did Necro where it was all our idea and we worked with authors to get it done as work for hire. As an all star team, I can't just assign work to an author. We have to cooperatively agree to do it. Its a unique approach but it really works with the people we have.

Devastation Bob wrote:

This is such a cool product, I'm suprised there aren't more like it out there. What would you do next, Jade Regent or an older one, just out of curiousity.

Neil likes creating characters, so in the end it will likely be his call. But my vote is for Jade Regent and Shackles and Skulls next.

LG is a funny company. With the "all star team" concept, I dont really run it like I did Necro where it was all our idea and we worked with authors to get it done as work for hire. As an all star team, I can't just assign work to an author. We have to cooperatively agree to do it. Its a unique approach but it really works with the people we have.

To be fair, I imagine he can crank one out faster than once ever 6 months. So he should be able to keep up with the current AP's when they hit around the 3rd one to give some more information on good ways to tie in the backgrounds and still do the older ones.

At this point I would say Jade next since it is over half over and then one of the earlier ones. I would honestly hold off on Rise of the Runelords for the moment and release a set at the same time the hardback collected RotRL book comes out in summer.

In regards to any future Iconics I noticed that in this set two of the iconics were none core races would it be safe to assume future sets would continue this trend (Perhaps Tengu or catfolk when the become available.)

In regards to any future Iconics I noticed that in this set two of the iconics were none core races would it be safe to assume future sets would continue this trend (Perhaps Tengu or catfolk when the become available.)

You never know. In fairness, I probably went a little crazy with the non-core races this go-around. But, the dhampir and changeling just had to turn up in an AP Plug-In for Carrion Crown. I chose the aasimar as well, simply because of the eidolon tie-in and her background story.

About the only way I'd see a tengu get used would be for Jade Regent, but it'd have to have a pretty serious explanation for how it shows up at the beginning of the adventure and develops a relationship with the other pregen PCs...

About the only way I'd see a tengu get used would be for Jade Regent, but it'd have to have a pretty serious explanation for how it shows up at the beginning of the adventure and develops a relationship with the other pregen PCs...

Skull & Shackles could work since the Shackles region is where Tengu are most common in the Inner Sea, and many ships there have a Tengu aboard to "suck up" the bad luck.

Looks like a member of the messageboard community has decided to run a Play-by-Post Carrion Crown campaign using these pregens. Awesome!

Thanks for the shout out, Neil. Lurkers are always welcome, if anyone wants to follow along. Cheers, and thanks to the good folks of Legendary Games for inspiring me to run the game.

DM Wellard wrote:

He is indeed my Lord Orcus..but even a construct needs to chill out sometimes.Don't overdo it Neil I'd hate to see you burn out mate.

He prefers to be called Big Daddy Orcus.

Only if you are cute..

Gotta admit, pretty happy about having four 5-star reviews! Nice work, Neil!

I must admit that I'm a bit flabbergasted by the success of this product. I never suspected that pre-generated characters would sell so well that it'd be on the Top Sellers category here.

For those who have purchased it, what got you to buy it?

Neil Spicer

Not necessarily in that order. Neil Spicer + Hugo Solis is a combo I absolutely could not resist.

Neil Spicer
Clinton Boomer
Hugo Solis
Clark Peterson

Not necessarily in that order. Neil Spicer + Hugo Solis is a combo I absolutely could not resist.

Don't forget Jason!

Reckless wrote:

Neil Spicer
Clinton Boomer
Hugo Solis
Clark Peterson

Not necessarily in that order. Neil Spicer + Hugo Solis is a combo I absolutely could not resist.

Don't forget Jason!

Well, in all fairness I didn't contribute more than advice and suggestions on the concepts and drafts to this project, so my name wouldn't likely induce Reckless to buy THIS product... but I'd hope it would encourage him to buy a different one, like, say, the Treasury of the Macabre! :)

Or a hopefully soon to drop future product. Construct Codex? Tomes of Ancient Knowledge? The Murmuring Fountain? Greg's Fiddler's Lament? We'll see how fast things keep coming down the pipe!

Persimmon and Theodric artwork coming up this weekend, minis hopefully right after.

Good job, Hugo!

Still working on these... Coming soon!

The illos are done, we'l post them soon!

One aspect of this product that I really enjoy is the notes on future level advancement. I really wish that these would have gone beyond 4th level, all the way up to the end of the AP. I'm curious as to whether the authors had any thoughts on further level advancement that might have been cut for space, or what not.

...I'm curious as to whether the authors had any thoughts on further level advancement that might have been cut for space, or what not.

That's an interesting idea. I mean, I had notions of where some of the PCs might go as they advanced in levels, but I didn't set about defining each level gain for them or anything. Nothing hit the cutting room floor in that respect.

However, given that this is a PDF product, it's possible we could push the character advancement further in future iterations of the pregens product line. Primarily, I wanted to give everyone levels 1-4, because that'll take you at least through the first adventure in the AP. After that, I kind of thought it made better sense to leave it open-ended for folks to determine their own course.

As an example, for a character like Xiuj Hak Leyng of the Seven Ghost Needles, I definitely envisioned him continuing to alternate between levels in monk and alchemist. Obviously, that's not an optimized build. Rather, for story purposes and game immersion, I think it's a better direction to take the character. And, because I assumed several of the other characters would advance in a more optimized fashion (by staying single-classed, etc.), they'd help make up for any pregen PCs who lagged a bit by going with some non-optimized choices.

It really boils down to which pregen PCs a group of players opts to run through the AP. Their character selections will likely guide the advancement choices which make the most sense for their combined party. And since there's no way for us to know the size of your gaming group or which of the pregens you'll select, it's a lot harder for us to make assumptions about the best individual character advancement choices. Thus, giving you some direction (i.e., levels 1-4) and then letting you navigate those waters according to your own insights into your specific game and party composition seemed the best choice.

Just my two cents,
--Neil

Thanks for the insight, Neil! I appreciate your thoughts.

No problem. I appreciate your interest in the product.

I kind of thought it made better sense to leave it open-ended for folks to determine their own course.

As an example, for a character like Xiuj Hak Leyng of the Seven Ghost Needles, I definitely envisioned him continuing to alternate between levels in monk and alchemist.

I'm glad you guys capped the progression at level 4 for the reasons you listed, Neil. Also, for Xiuj Hak Leyng, my plan for him is to focus on alchemist a bit over monk until he gets 3rd level extracts and thereby qualifies for Master Chymist. (I can't *wait* until he gets Growth Mutagen).

As an aside, you guys made an awesome product here with a bevy of characters that I want to play. It's not like I'm only interested in one or two of them, I want to play nearly all of them. That's pretty darn cool.

As an aside, you guys made an awesome product here with a bevy of characters that I want to play. It's not like I'm only interested in one or two of them, I want to play nearly all of them. That's pretty darn cool.

That was certainly one of our design goals with this product line. In essence, these are the characters many of us felt like we'd want to play if we were forming a party to run through the Carrion Crown AP. And, to that end, we also wanted to make sure they had elements in their backgrounds and abilities where they could synergize and play off one another.

Individually, we wanted them to be awesome and inspiring. Together, we wanted them to create something greater than the sum of their parts. A supportive, well-balanced group you could mix and match to tell some pretty awesome character-driven stories as threads woven throughout the campaign's primary plot...all of whom would have their personal moments to shine, while holding their own as a heroic group of adventurers. I think we did a pretty good job achieving what we set out to do. The challenge will be in repeating that with another AP.

I have this and I love it. These are easily the best Pregens I've eve seen in a fantasy RPG, or any other.

I would like to ask, though, is there any chance we'll ever see this done again for other Adventure Paths in the future? Heck, I'd pay money for such a product for an already-done AP like Kingmaker (yeah, not going to happen, but I can dream).

I bought this when it first came out but never posted. You did a great job and I hope you continue with more AP characters.

I also loved this product, make more please!!!!

Dark fantasy and horror are mother's milk for me. Will definitely have to check this out.

I have this and I love it. These are easily the best Pregens I've eve seen in a fantasy RPG, or any other.

Wow. High praise. Thanks, Eric. You should write a review for this product. The more positive feedback we get, the better it sells. And both those things get us psyched to do more. :-D

I would like to ask, though, is there any chance we'll ever see this done again for other Adventure Paths in the future? Heck, I'd pay money for such a product for an already-done AP like Kingmaker (yeah, not going to happen, but I can dream).

I already have stat-blocks created for multiple adventure paths. I just haven't created the character background/history stuff yet. But, yes, I believe Clark still intends to release more of these. Of course, we'll also have to get the art and layout lined up for them. So, all of that would still take time. The good news is that we do have plans to go back and do similar pregen products for the prior APs, too...not just the new ones.

I just put my own review up, and I hope it doesn't look too bad along the better ones that preceded it. I really love what Legendary Games did with this!

Nice review Eric.

Much appreciated, Eric. I was just brainstorming some more ideas about this product line last night. And, once RPG Superstar is behind us, maybe Clark and I can reassess our schedules and see what more can come of it.

Dark_Mistress, Mister Spicer, thanks, both of you. And Mister Spicer, I should add that I'd also love to see something done with some of the other future books you've advertised (like the one about Lovecraftian horrors). Given what you've already done, they'd be awesome.

And reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Also: Thank you for reviewing this, Eric - it reminded me that I wanted to do this one a long time ago! :D

I noticed that the Legendary Games site is now gone. I was looking forward to seeing more of their work. The adventures for their gothic campaign sounded good.

The site's gone? Crap, they did such good work. Hopefully it'll return in some incarnation or other.

The site's gone? Crap, they did such good work. Hopefully it'll return in some incarnation or other.

I also just went to their Facebook page and there were many questions posted about upcoming products but no answers. It looks like they are gone. Very sad. I liked their work.