Gambit's page

Firstly, I just want to say really awesome blog piece, it hearkens to a lovely classic feel, a quality that made RotR as popular and everlasting as it has been.

Into the other matter, the culture of a given race is really what the determining factor is. The vast majority of orcs are CE because their culture celebrates and demands that. Now, in the case of an orc baby whos found in the woods and raised at a monastery, well his alignment could be just about anything, because he has been allowed to grow without the demands placed upon him by his racial culture.

Thats really what it all boils down to, demons are always THIS alignment because they are outsiders with an intrinsic creation that specifies such, humanoids aren't bound by such rules, but generally follow the culture of their racial norms. Its also why if you totally deconstruct the monolith, then everything just becomes "Humans with funny X", and thats doing a disservice to good worldbuilding.

Upon further contemplation, I have decided that if Paizo addresses the situation, and the feedback therein, and puts together an action plan for a solution to the matter, I will eagerly purchase this book in order to support good positive business practices.

If they choose to stay silent on the matter, or offer only conciliatory regards with no plan of resolution or redevelopment, that will likely draw to a close my 8 year relationship with Paizo and Pathfinder.

I have always celebrated this company for its openness and willingness to converse with its playerbase (especially via forum interactions), but if they ultimately prove unwilling to address things of this nature, it might constitute a shift in company practices to a direction that would deem my future support unwarranted. I hope the opposite will prove true.

This ultimately may mean very little, as I stated in my last post I haven't played Pathfinder in a while, and the last Pathfinder product I purchased was a roughly a year ago. Perhaps the resolution to this and my subsequent purchase of the book would reinvigorate my Pathfinder spirit, after all blazing infernos start from the smallest kindling. But I figured it best to proverbially put my money where my mouth is.

Good day all.

Gambit wrote:

I have been delving into the vast realm of other RPGs of late, trying out more obscure titles like Mythras and The One Ring, as well as playing in a 5E campaign, thus I haven't played Pathfinder in quite a while (nor have I been on these forums in a while either), but I had heard of this warrior shapeshifter class through the grapevine a little while back and the prospect of it made me a bit excited, I thought to myself "that sounds fun, it might be time to fire back up some Pathfinder again".

The book comes out and I happen to be at my FLGS one day, so I pull it off the shelf to peruse (as I always do before a purchase), and flip straight to the Shifter, excited to delve into this new class, this new possibility. And then I read it, and the excitement leaves me, replaced by a sense of apathy, apathy not just for the class, but for any thought of reigniting Pathfinder in my RPG life. I put the book back on the shelf and leave the store with it unpurchased.

Was there melancholy music playing and a Ravenous Tumbleweed rolling behind you as you walked away?

Heh, negative, but I would have loved the symbolism of such an occurrence. I only mentioned it because something random brought me to the site today (I googled something regarding the Card Game), clicked on this thread, read a bit of the feedback, saw someone say something to the effect of "if you dont voice your opinion, you are irrelevant", not a viewpoint I agree with, but figured I would share my experience on the matter nonetheless.

I have been delving into the vast realm of other RPGs of late, trying out more obscure titles like Mythras and The One Ring, as well as playing in a 5E campaign, thus I haven't played Pathfinder in quite a while (nor have I been on these forums in a while either), but I had heard of this warrior shapeshifter class through the grapevine a little while back and the prospect of it made me a bit excited, I thought to myself "that sounds fun, it might be time to fire back up some Pathfinder again".

The book comes out and I happen to be at my FLGS one day, so I pull it off the shelf to peruse (as I always do before a purchase), and flip straight to the Shifter, excited to delve into this new class, this new possibility. And then I read it, and the excitement leaves me, replaced by a sense of apathy, apathy not just for the class, but for any thought of reigniting Pathfinder in my RPG life. I put the book back on the shelf and leave the store with it unpurchased.

Pathfinder Unchained has two systems that already consolidate some skills . This may not be overly helpful to you and it does group skills a bit differently.

I am indeed aware of Pathfinder Unchained. :)

I've been going about reworking the Pathfinder skill list, expanding and consolidating some here and there, while keeping things grounded in verisimilitude and internal consistency, and I wanted to share and get some outside opinions on it. I will go over my thoughts on each skill removed and added. First the list:

Acrobatics (Dex) (Armor Check Penalty)
Animal Handling (Wis) (Trained Only)
Arcane Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Athletics (Str) (Armor Check Penalty)
Crafting (Var)
Cultural Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Deception (Cha)
Device Handling (Dex) (Trained Only) (Armor Check Penalty)
Engineering (Int) (Trained Only)
Healing (Wis)
Historical Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Insight (Wis)
Intimidation (Cha)
Linguistics (Int) (Trained Only)
Mercantile (Wis) (Trained Only)
Natural Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Perception (Wis)
Performance (Var)
Persuasion (Cha)
Planar Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Profession (Var) (Trained Only)
Religious Lore (Int) (Trained Only)
Riding (Dex)
Sleight of Hand (Dex) (Trained Only) (Armor Check Penalty)
Spellcraft (Int) (Trained Only)
Stealth (Dex) (Armor Check Penalty)
Survival (Wis)

Now I'll go into each skill that got removed or changed and my thoughts behind the process.

Appraise: Folded into a new skill called Mercantile so as to widen its value, Mercantile covers appraising as well as all aspects of running a business and the practices therein.
Bluff and Disguise: Rolled into a single Deception skill.
Climb and Swim: Rolled into a single Athletics skill along with taking jumping from Acrobatics.
Diplomacy: Renamed to Persuasion.
Disable Device: Renamed Device Handling so that it doesn't seem so fixated on only breaking things, but is clear that it can also be used to fix thing or alter things.
Escape Artist: Folded into Acrobatics. Can attempt either an Acrobatics or Athletics check to escape bonds, depending on whether you are trying to slip free or brute force it.
Fly: Folded into Acrobatics (to be honest, this skill doesn't come up very often in our games, we lean somewhat old school and generally handle flying as it was in 3E and earlier, with occasional exceptions).
Knowledge Dungeoneering: This is described as covering "aberrations, caverns, oozes, and spelunking". Aberrations and oozes are moved to Arcane Lore, caverns to Natural Lore, and spelunking to Survival.
Knowledge Geography: Covers "lands, terrain, climate, people", this is divided between Natural Lore and Survival, expect for "people" which goes to Cultural Lore.
Knowledge Local: Renamed Cultural Lore with the intention of broadening its aspects and uses.
Knowledge Nobility: Folded into Cultural Lore.
Knowledge Planes: Renamed Planar Lore, I have pondered on folding this into Religious Lore though (possibly then renaming it to Divine Lore), but I think its probably distinct enough to merit its own skill.
Sense Motive: Renamed to Insight.
Use Magic Device: Folded into Spellcraft, with the exception that if you have the Trapfinding class feature you may use Device Handling to use magical devices (this lets the Rogue keep its classical niche and has the beneficial byproduct of somewhat buffing trapfinding, a feature that some have found lacking).

Other notes:

Crafting, Profession, and Performance are all list as "Var" which means it Varies on which is its governing stat. Each one will be based on the individual chosen subskill. For example smithing will be Str based, painting and other forms of artistry will be Dex based, alchemy will be Int based, etc. Same goes for profession, sage will be Int based, farmer will be Wis based, courtesan will be Cha based, etc. As for Performance, singing, acting, comedy, and oratory will all be Cha based, whereas the instrument ones will be Dex based.
At one point I had Riding folded into Animal Handling but ultimately decided to reseparate the two as they have different primary purposes and are distinct enough to merit it.
Do you like "Natural Lore", "Nature Lore", or "Wilderness Lore" better? I've gone kinda back and forth on this.

Hit me with any feedback or suggestions you may have.

I really want to see Second Darkness get the update and simultaneous fix that JJ was talking about.

Here is a good map of Ansalon before the Cataclysm, the timeframe we are playing in, although this one is from much later, just before the Cataclysm, as I dont believe Istar was around back in the time of the Third Dragon War. You can click on it to zoom in further.

For contrast here is the post Cataclysm map circa the War of the Lance era.

The problem with lack of Britain analogue is, well, Cheliax was Britain, but due to what happened 100 years ago it lost that aspect of itself to become devil-land.

Absalom: City of Ultimate Adventure hardcover would be a high priority purchase for me, I have always loved fantasy metropolis hub cities, and sourcebooks detailing them.

Rappan Athuk is what you are looking for.

Dont go down the well!

A fantasy western involving a train heist.

But is it a phantom powered train?

Unrelated followup question, is monk or brawler the better suited class for suplexing trains?

Now that we have Crimson Throne coming, I am fully on the Second Darkness train to be next on this wonderful list.

I'd be surprised if they introduce another campaign setting (Ravenloft can kinda be folded into the Forgotten Realms). That may split the fan base.

This is only really an issue if you are pumping out multiple product lines simultaneously, causing internal competition as a byproduct, which was their business model in 2E, but the polar opposite of their business model for 5E. Releasing 2-3 books a year means they can explore the other settings in a manner where they are focused solely on each one at the time of their release, usually in the form of an adventure, and since each one will be the only 5E product being released at a given time, it therefore maximizes potential profitability.

Mummy's Mask set in the twenties would be a hoot.

This would be cool, especially if the PC's were modeled after pulp era heroes like The Phantom, The Shadow, Green Hornet, Kato, etc.

Congrats guys. Looking forward to the Ultimate Path of War kickstarter. ;)

SLAs for prestige class access was no bueno, happy to see that DIAF.

To answer your question, Scarred Witch Doctor, Con caster all the way babay.

Finding a Lawful-aimed AP is probably going to be extremely difficult. Barring ones like Wrath and Hell's Vengeance where they're designed specifically for an alignment like Good or Evil, most of Paizo's adventures are written expecting a Chaotic Good party, which seems to be the "quintessential adventurer alignment".

Interesting, since my AD&D days I have always taken Neutral Good to be the quintessential adventurer alignment. General altruism, without worrying about the rest.

YES!

Every time those threads popped up I kept saying it was going to happen and be a 2017 release to coincide with the 10 year Pathfinder AP line and 15 year Paizo company anniversaries, but getting it sooner is even better!

Thank you Mr Jacobs, seven blessings to you.

Gambit wrote:

I've been reading through Star Wars REUP, a retro-clone esque update to the old WEG d6 system, and as someone who never really played that system back in the day and has no built in nostalgia for it, I have to say its a highly impressive piece of work. I suggest checking it out, I'm likely going to give it a try. There also seems to be a solid community out there supporting this, and people have even been using Lulu to make their own print copies.

Thanks so much for posting this. This is a great update of SWD6 that encompasses everything up to the new canon being established by The Force Awakens and its related product lines. That is a fantastically good PDF.

Glad I could help. ;)

The art is simply amazing isn't it. Like the whole thing is just stupid impressive.

If you want to delve even more into it, surf around The Rancor Pit, the (Rebel) headquarters of the SWD6 system. They seemed to have a good bit of input in its creation.

A solid list of writers. Although it would have been cool if Paizo had brought in Sandy Petersen himself to write one of the installments.

Hell, this might be even better.

I've been reading through Star Wars REUP, a retro-clone esque update to the old WEG d6 system, and as someone who never really played that system back in the day and has no built in nostalgia for it, I have to say its a highly impressive piece of work. I suggest checking it out, I'm likely going to give it a try. There also seems to be a solid community out there supporting this, and people have even been using Lulu to make their own print copies.

A solid list of writers. Although it would have been cool if Paizo had brought in Sandy Petersen himself to write one of the installments.

I learned years ago that some people just can't separate RP and mechanics.

They are at their finest when working in tandem as a cohesive unit. ;)

It got rid of the immersion-killing ridiculous stupidity that was rage cycling.

Temporary hit points are also bueno.

Ross, I think the issues boils down to being that a great many people feel the Antipaladin class should have been LE from its initial Pathfinder creation, that LE is its natural state, and one being CE should probably be what requires a special exception, not vice versa. Given that such isn't the case, an official LE Paizo version is desired instead.

I have a Ranger/Cleric/Skyseeker character in a Giantslayer campaign, my first character in 7 years of playing Pathfinder to take a prestige class.

Prestige classes, to me, are prestigious. They're "rewards" that you earn for devoting yourself to a specific path. Seeking to join/pursue multiple prestigious paths doesn't make sense to me, really, since that's kind of the opposite of focusing to be good at one thing. So, for me at least, the fact that it was tough to qualify for multiple prestige classes was/is a good thing.

I think things would have been/be much better in this regard if the official rule stated that to take another prestige class one must completely finish out the first prestige class they have obtained, thus showing their devotion to the specific prestigious path they have selected. No dipping 2 levels in this, then 1 level in that, then 3 levels over there...it got ridiculous back in the day. Under this rule, for the most part, the maximum number of PrCs any single character can possibly have will be 2.

Well Crimson Throne is my vote, but I think everyone is indeed correct that it, SD, and KM are at the top of that list. If it happens it remains to be seen which one will be chosen.

Steve....a box set....*drools*

In addition, in Reign of Winter, one of the books takes place entirely on Triaxis.

Not to mention that other little planet you happen to visit in Reign of Winter. ;)

Steve Geddes wrote:

Calling the way other people play RPGs lame and stupid. Do you think that's going to help?

Different people like different things. It doesn't make your preferences any less important just because someone else happens to have different ones.

He wasn't talking about the way other people play. He was talking about how having less options doesn't magically make 5e allow for better backstories or magically have you think of backstory first before mechanics and that PF magically has everyone make their characters mechanics then backstory.

Of coarse not, personally characters I make nowadays are always concept first, mechanics second, even in Pathfinder. But are you denying that the culture surrounding Pathfinder is mechanics heavy?

And just so I'm being fully transparent here, I am currently playing in both a Pathfinder and 5E game. And there are things I definitely love about 5E, I love its rules-mediumness, I love its flavor, I love the way they did races, backgrounds, feats, and multiple attacks. But Pathfinder is still my preferred system overall, as I really dislike the changes to spellcasting, the general swingyness of everything (skill has much less impact than pure luck), that BAB is rolled into proficiency and the same for everyone, and the way resting/healing works.

Oh, and Gebby, quit trolling, no one needs that nonsense here.

I would much rather see a system where magic overall is a bit more rare, where some spells are slightly dangerous and/or have a drawback.

But if a time ever comes where Pathfinder just drops full casters completely, that will probably be the time when I move on to a different game.

People want characters to be roughly equal all the time.

The problem is that to do this it would be a fundamental change to the core nature of what D&D/PF is, and many people are happy with what it is and has been over the years. 4E accomplishes this (for the most part) and was much reviled in doing so. I've heard 13th Age is pretty good on this front too, though I haven't personally played it. But overall to do so will change the nature of the game and many people don't want that (myself included).

The groups I've played in have always fell squarely into camp #3. It's never been a huge issue for us, although I still contend that the abandoning of the more esoteric "restrictions" of spellcasting from 1E/2E AD&D was a mistake, when spells were more easily interuptable and some were slightly dangerous or had a drawback. Also our group (including our main DM) is really good at spotlighting, which solves a good portion of this potential issue before it even gets out of the gate.

bookrat, just wanted to say I'm highly impressed with your discussion manner. You are open-minded, level-headed, and willing to examine all sides with a calm demeanor without being condescending, derisive, or overly snarky. It is both refreshing and all too rare to encounter on an internet forum.

GreyWolfLord, I picked up the new Dragon Age Core Rulebook that combined all 3 of the box sets a couple months ago. We haven't delved into a campaign yet, but I am definitely quite intrigued and see potential there. My absolute most favorite thing about the game is the stunt system, its evocative, flavorful, useful, and just flat out awesome. Though just wanted to clarify for others on your point about "backgrounds", in DARPG you pick a background and a class, the background is more akin to picking a race than a 5E style background, and there are like 40 different ones in the core rulebook to choose from. And for the person who asked about a Dragon Age SRD, here is a link to the Quickstart Guide PDF, which includes the basic rules for the game, a short adventure, and some pregen characters.

OP, my advice to you is, try 5E. Pick up the Starter Set for 12 bucks on Amazon, run the the included adventure (which is quite good) and see how the system works for your group. Other options would be the previously mentioned Dragon Age RPG, and also Castles & Crusades, which is like a rules-light hybrid of AD&D and 3E/d20. I am also fond of this.

James Jacobs wrote:

Go back far enough and deities like Cayden Cailean disappear.

You say that like it's a bad thing!(I keed, I keed. Sorta. I'll admit a passing fondness for Iomedae, but neither of the other Ascended even show up in most of the games I'm partial to.)

Cayden Cailean the deity comprises about 20% of my overall enjoyment of the Golarion setting.

Having tried d20/RCR, Saga, and Fantasy Flight, I would say Saga is still my favorite Star Wars RPG.

I tend to prefer games that are more simulationist in nature instead of free form narrative based, so Saga speaks to me far more than FF.

There are only really two changes I would like to see in Saga, one is a change to a Pathfinder style skill system, and the other is to also have saving throws instead of everything going against static defenses.

Also Dawn of Defiance is nothing short of a stellar campaign adventure path.

I too feel LE conveys the dark knight literary archetype better than CE.

Would definitely be on board with a LE Anti-Paladin archetype in Pathfinder, and I could absolutely see Asmodeus empowering and utilizing them with vile glee to serve in his name.

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on a 2017 release of the Curse of the Crimson Throne Anniversary Edition hardback.

Avena, dude, man, just say WoW clone, much clearer and everyone already knows that term. ;)

For those thinking about buying the game:

I have been trying the Headstart Access (no campaign yet, limited other recources) and for now I am pretty dissappointed.
- A very limited skill/ability set for characters that includes spells (and not many of them) and seems entirely combat oriented
- It looks far worse on screen than it appeared in the videos, especially animations and lighting.(highest quality level, vsync activated, good overall performance) Still, if the gameplay was good, that would be no problem.
- Controls feel unresponsive and clunky, pathfinding AI is atrocious

For single players this might be outweighted by a good storymode, but as of now, I am not holding my breath. for GM/player multiplayer mode it might work, but at the same time the controls might make it an unpleasent experience, I have not yet tried that.

The single player RPG aspect of this game will be judged against both the old school Infinity engine games and the newer Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin, and Shadowrun games, so if it doesn't hold up to those in gameplay and story, I expect it to get thrashed in reviews. We shall see.

He tried to create EVE with swords and spells, and it just didn't work out. I would have been much more interested in a PVE focused cross between EQ and SWG (still the best sandbox MMO ever created) that captured the feel of playing D&D/Pathfinder in video game form. As it stands now, I kinda regret backing the KS (have for a long while actually).

I'm thinking a CG Human Warlord, Andoran born and newly minted Eagle Knight who is slightly undercover behind enemy lines to foment those with a mind of freedom, would be a fun character.

I love Dragonlance, but I always thought the whole "we're going to punish everyone for the actions of one man and his sub-sect of followers" was downright petty. Throwing down the mountain was overkill, but if they were going to do it, they should have destroyed only the city of Istar, not half the continent, it would have had the exact same effect. And Takhisis's I'm-going-to-take-over-the-world machinations got kinda old after a while.

I think the reason why I like Elaith the most is that he is one of the relatively few Forgotten Realms characters who showed actual character growth as things went along, and it was pretty well nuanced. You can tell there is this gradual progression towards possible redemption for him. I dont think we would have ever seen him cross over into full "good" territory, but I could definitely see him settling in nicely to a TN alignment.

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

"The Crystal Shard" was a pretty decent book (as far as RPG novels go), and so was "Homeland". It's just that all the others got progressively worse.

I'd much rather see pretty much anything of Elaine Cunningham's stuff on screen, though.

Oh god no. Her books were horribly written, had incredible mary and marty stus and she didn't even read the player's hadnbook before writing mixing up many things including schools of magic.

I hope that not a single one of her novels ever gets translated to the screen.

Well Elaith "the Serpent" Craulnober is probably my favorite Forgotten Realms character (though Blackstaff is a really close second), so I liked a good bit of her work. However, your complaints aren't completely without merit.

As far as on topic, please god let this be a good and worthy representation of the hobby we all love, my heart cant handle another debacle like we got in 2000, hopefully we get a talented, stellar director.

I think they will be watching the development, reception, and turn out of the Warcraft movie very closely.

Have your plans changed now that the new adventure path has been announced?

For your original idea, I would leave out the Kineticist from the rest of the Occult classes available, Human Torch flying around throwing fireballs doesnt really fit the theme. ;)

Regarding the other classes, I would say yes to Alchemist and Witch, maybe to Oracle, Inquisitor, and Shaman, and absolute no to Wizard, Cleric, and Arcanist.

I have little patience with people gushing about how great VII was and how much worse they think the later and better games are.

The story is head scratchingly obtuse because it was unfinished. The characters are lazy stereotypes with no real depth or indviduality, well other than Cait Sith. The battle system is boring and basically the same as VI.

Plus, chocobo breeding.

You spoony bard.

Personally its VI > IV > VII >>> all the rest.

I love 7, and this will be a day one purchase for me, but if they ever do a full HD remaster of 6 I would squee like a nine year old girl who just got a pony for her birthday.

It's still the best story of any FF game ever.

Just wanted to give some praise for doing your part to keep Ravenloft alive. May the mists be in your favor good sir.

For the Stalker I'd rather them have a good base Reflex and either get rid of the Wis to Ref ability, or swap it out for something else.

For the Warlord it's probably less needed overall, but I liked it for uniformity and symmetry between the classes.

If you decided to implement it, it would work out like this:

Warder: Fort and Will, Int to Ref
Warlord: Fort and Ref, Cha to Will
Stalker: Ref and Will, Wis to Fort (this is what you could swap out its Wis to Ref for).

Yay symmetry.