If Another AP Got a Hardcover Makeover, Which One Would You Want?


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so, after ten pages and many moons of discussion, do we have a consensus yet?


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Curse of the Crimson Throne!


I don't accept any answers that do not begin with Second and end with Darkness

Liberty's Edge

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Hythlodeus wrote:
I don't accept any answers that do not begin with Second and end with Darkness

So you're good with;

Second Darkness should never be adapted because reasons. Legacy of Fire would be a better choice than Second Darkness.

:]

Dark Archive

Second Darkness should get a revisit.


I am certain Second Darkness will be next in line.

Shadow Lodge

Adjule wrote:
I am certain Second Darkness will be next in line.

I am equally certain that it will not. Unsold stock speaks that loudly.

Plus, even if Second Darkness does get the hardcover treatment, I expect that it won't go far enough in making the changes that consensus says it needs. Curse hardcover's reworking of A History of Ashes is surprisingly minor, for all that people complained about it.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah Second Darkness, its much more of a challenge to update for GMs cuz so many of the encounters involve NPCs with class levels. Also the update of the art in particular to Kvawa, making him reflect the Ekujae elves, would be nice.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
DanyRay wrote:
I'd want Crimson throne, it's 3.5 and I still miss #1.
You're in luck.

I know and got it the day it released. I must say its a realy fun read and those hardcover compilation look great.

Now I'd like a either of the 3.5 two path in HC, being converted in PFRPG in the process or Kingmaker since its the only AP after Curse that I miss Vol.1 in physical copy.


Based on my sample size (one) I think I can confidently predict Kingmaker as the next hardcover AP. Unless I change my mind.

But honestly, whichever one they decide to do, I have faith that they'll put in enough stuff and tweak enough things that it'll be worth the investment.


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Hythlodeus wrote:
so, after ten pages and many moons of discussion, do we have a consensus yet?

Age of Worms!


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
so, after ten pages and many moons of discussion, do we have a consensus yet?
Age of Worms!

If that happens, we should all buy lottery tickets


RHMG Animator wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
so, after ten pages and many moons of discussion, do we have a consensus yet?
Age of Worms!
If that happens, we should all buy lottery tickets

I already did...does that mean AoW is coming?!

(PS: I didn't win the lottery).


:)


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Kingmaker could use some tiny updates here and there


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1. Kingmaker

2. Kingmaker

3. Council of Thieves

Liberty's Edge

That would be pretty spectacular if one of the original Dragon Mag APs were updated to PF and Golarion.


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J-Bone wrote:
That would be pretty spectacular if one of the original Dragon Mag APs were updated to PF and Golarion.

It would be... but it won't happen. Those articles are all the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast.

There was a hardcover of Shackled City, but it's now out-of-print. Used copies seem to be going for $75-$150 in the aftermarket .

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Speaking of which, I have one Shackled City Hardcover for sale, pristine condition, shipping almost worldwide. PM me for details!


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
so, after ten pages and many moons of discussion, do we have a consensus yet?
Age of Worms!

I can only hope!


Whoa, really? I picked up my copy for, like, $10. The price sure did hike once it went out of stock, I guess! O_o


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Eryx_UK wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
so, after ten pages and many moons of discussion, do we have a consensus yet?
Age of Worms!
I can only hope!

Again... ain't gonna happen. Because WotC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Whoa, really? I picked up my copy for, like, $10. The price sure did hike once it went out of stock, I guess! O_o

I tried to buy a copy for $15 during the Great Golem Sale a few years back, but there was a technical problem that got my order stuck in limbo for a few weeks before I noticed.

By the time the Customer Service CareBears got my order fixed, that and two other products in my order were already sold out. :-(

Dark Archive

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I'm increasingly realizing that I'd really like Second Darkness hardcover just because I want to run all three before running Jade Regent and Shattered Star .-.

Plus since Orik and Lyrie survived my campaign I want to make joke cameos about them xP

Liberty's Edge

I'm really enjoying running Second Darkness but can really see how that one, in particular, would benefit from an update. Its not just the mechanics but other issues such as art interpretations and NPC characterizations that would really make a positive difference.

On the contrary Im also running Legacy of Fire and that is so far running really smooth with a modest update to the Pathfinder rules set. So if given a choice I would really love to see Second Dorkness get the update.


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i think you kinda gotta do second darkness next.


I have a personal love for Second Darkness. The other great thing about a re-write is that the set pieces will end up rolled into the mix where they belong.

How come no one mentioned Legacy of Fire? No love, or already perfect?


GreatKhanArtist wrote:

I have a personal love for Second Darkness. The other great thing about a re-write is that the set pieces will end up rolled into the mix where they belong.

How come no one mentioned Legacy of Fire? No love, or already perfect?

Legacy of Fire has been mentionned several time, especially as being more likely than Second darkness as it is 3.x ruleset and the stock is much lower.

The "debate" is mainly between Legaxy of fire, Second Darkness, Kingmaker and Council of Thieves.


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I would like to see Paizo wheedle, cajole, purchase or beat the rights for Age of Worms out of wotsee.

The Exchange

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Adjule wrote:
Bad enough we had 3 Varisia APs back to back (Runelords, Crimson Throne, Second Darkness), with another starting out there (Jade Regent), and I believe Shattered Star does too?

There was actually nothing bad about it. They should add more Varisia glory to the AP line, if you ask me :)

I have to say, that to me, Second Darkness would be the most natural candidate for another hardcover. It's still 3.5 and for a lot of people seemed to have a lot of issues which could be adresses in a revision.

And while I love LoF, I can also see Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous getting a revision to iron out mechanic issues, so those two would be my second and third choice.

For most of the others, I probably wouldn't need a whole hardcover but maybe a shorter pdf with official corrections and/or enhancements to an AP. Though it would still add to the workload, so that's probably not really doable either. On the other hand, that's maybe something that could easier be done by others than by the development leads.

Liberty's Edge

I'm currently running both Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness, of the two Second Darkness requires the most work in updating. SD doesn't use monsters easily found in a bestiary as often as does LoF for one. Having to update the stats of Drow and Riddleport NPCs is a lot more work intensive than Gnolls and Pugwhumpies.

Also LoF is pretty terrific on its own. There are few big gaping plot holes or issues with characterizations that need to be updated. Second Darkness has quite a few of these.

Both as a lot of fun. I'm enjoying each for its own merits but SD has the greater need, IMO, for an update.

Dark Archive

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I have recently completed my collection of all Pathfinder AP single issues, but i have bought both the RotR AE and the CotCT HC and i would continue to do so for EVERY APdventure Path collection as they would all benefits from a fine-tuning and incorporation of player feedback that has been written over the years.

That said, i have an unnatural love for (evil) drow and would like Second Darkness the most.

But i also would be ok if Paizo does a financially more logical one first, like Kingmaker or Legacy of Fire.

I would like to know how well the RotR AE sold in comparison to the CotCT HC (judged by the limited editions, it sold much faster), but i am pretty sure we will get another collection come 2019/2020.

Scarab Sages

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I have run part of Second Darkness, but the group self-destructed (not the AP) in the third chapter.

I have played in Legacy of Fire through the beginning of chapter six, and will finish that in 2017.

Of the two my preference would be for Second Darkness to be fixed, and updated. One of the issues in SD is that there was a place where the AP stopped, and picked up again a level later. I think ended at 4th and picked up again at 6th. This was something Paizo played with during the AP, and the other experiment was set pieces that were not really part of the AP but a side adventure, related but not part of the main story. You almost have to do the set pieces to keep up the progression for the AP.

I think SD, besides the general issues others have pointed out, could really use an update to integrate the whole AP better, and to fill in the gap they had. I liked the AP in general and would love it to be fixed.

As mentioned long ago JJ mentioned wanting to fix what was wrong with that AP, and I would love to see him get the chance.


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Marco Massoudi wrote:
I would like to know how well the RotR AE sold in comparison to the CotCT HC (judged by the limited editions, it sold much faster), but i am pretty sure we will get another collection come 2019/2020.

We're not going to get official numbers. Paizo is a privately-held company, and does not release its sales data.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I don't think you could even compare sales data for the limited editions. The Runelords Collectors Edition was a $200 item, while the Crimson Throne Limited Edition went for $75. Also, I guess they had very different print run sizes.

Liberty's Edge

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Based upon sales (and most specifically, AP stock they no longer have to sell), I would expect that Kingmaker is the most likely compilation hard cover, followed by Carrion Crown.

Remarkable that Carrion Crown has sold so well, but it has. Turns out, Gothic horror is a popular theme. Who knew?

Still, Kingmaker will be the next one. Count on it. They will need to make revisions and draw upon more of the features in Ultimate Campaign.


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Personally, I would want SD, if only because it really, REALLY, needs it.

Liberty's Edge

Carrion Crown... good grief I hope not. I didn't enjoy that one at all.


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According to the latest Paizo Store Blog on this, supplies of at least 5 of 6 of the chapters of each of Legacy of Fire, Council of Thieves, Skull & Shackles, Shattered Star, Mummy's Mask, and Iron Gods are getting low. Not sure if I missed another AP in there (I saw some other APs but I think they were all <5 of 6 chapters getting low).

This is potential good news for those who want to see a Legacy of Fire (and maybe even Council of Thieves) Hardcover Edition.


J-Bone wrote:
Carrion Crown... good grief I hope not. I didn't enjoy that one at all.

I think Carrion Crown has some really solid installments, but that they work better as standalone modules, rather than as a cohesive whole.

That said, I think a Carrion Crown hardcover, where more attention was made to making the throughline plot more seamless, would work a lot better and be less work to do than would a Second Darkness hardcover, which doesn't have to tie the plot together as much, but needs a lot of tweaking to the overall stories in each adventure to make them work better.


I didn't care much for Carrion Crown when I tried to run it. Of course, the players had a part in that. They had no interest in solving an investigation (which is pretty bad, as the first 4 books were investigation -> dungeon crawl -> move to another location). So whether that one gets a hardcover treatment or not, it matters none to me.

Grand Lodge

Council of Thieves, but I am Cheliaxed out.

Legacy of Fire.

As much as I think Second Darkness could be done, I would rather a new Adventure Path that can re-define some of the Darklands.

The Exchange

I'd vote for Legacy of Fire.


I loved Carrion Crown, but I don't think I'd personally be interested as much in a Hardcover right now.

I would be all in for a Kingmaker HC though.


Much as I love Legacy of Fire, Kingmaker is the obvious choice.

It would sell like hotcakes, and has those blank hexes that would cry out for bonus content.

Even the folks who own the entire original run could not resist such a thing.


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Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
Even the folks who own the entire original run could not resist such a thing.

Opinion is divided on the subject.


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I would get it.


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I really want to see Second Darkness get the update and simultaneous fix that JJ was talking about.


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Gambit wrote:
I really want to see Second Darkness get the update and simultaneous fix that JJ was talking about.

This!


I agree. SD is what I want next

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