What is the point of unchained barbarian?


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I do not understand what the big deal is with unchained barbarian. Rogue I get because they allow him to add dexterity instead of strength to attack and damage rolls over time. What does the barbarian get? Watered down damage rolls and temp hit points that are lost first? My group house ruled temp hit points being lost first a long time ago and barbarians lose out on damage with two handers with a flat +2 to +4 damage modifier as opposed to taking the equivalent strength bump. For example a low level barbarian deals +3 on damage with a +4 strength bump when using a two-hander but that is lost in this equation. I never understood why a barbarian becomes weaker when using a class feature with a penalty to AC. No other fighting class gets a penalty when using their special ability in this way. Fighters way outperform barbarians in damage. Please tell me how unchained fixes barbarians?


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Talek & Luna wrote:
Fighters way outperform barbarians in damage.

Hahahahaha! Yeah, okay.

Seriously, I don't think it "fixes" it, so much as makes it simpler. If I remember correctly, the goal of the Unchained Barbarian was to make it easier on new players to get.
(Flat +2/+2 is easier to understand than +4 Strength, supposedly).

And with groups that use strict RAW, with absolutely no house rules, then core Barbarian does suffer from the non-temporary hit points problem, because the bonus to Con isn't actually temporary hit points, it's a straight Con increase.

It's fine if you ruled it in that way yourself, but games that don't do that and PFS can use the temporary hit points of the Unchained Barbarian now.


The unchained classes all had different purposes. UnSummoner was basically to nerf them. UnRogue was to buff them, and UnBarbarian was to simplify the math during combat for them.

I don't think UnBarb is better or worse, just different. As you pointed out, a little less damage but also less chance of dying when rage ends due to losing temp CON (saying your game house-ruled it different doesn't really apply to a discussion of the game as it is published).

The AC is a totally separate discussion, being the same for both versions, but simply put it is partially thematic and goes back a long time in history.

Finally, it is generally accepted that while fighters have good damage, they don't usually outperform Barbarians, the reverse being true in fact, but if you prefer the fighter you can certainly play one.


Also it has a revamp of the rage powers, removing the Rage Cycling mechanic and putting things behind a stance so you have to choose a line instead of having everything.


The loss of 1 damage per hit is negligible. In the grand scheme of things, 1 damage doesn't matter much, unless that 1 damage would've downed the creature. It does allow Barbarians to TWF better, though, if that's what you want to do.
As for the rest, others have said it better, I think. It's a simplified and streamlined version of its original version, with some bugs removed (ragecycling and HP wonkiness) to make it more accessible. There's some new rage powers to play with to "fix" some older ones, or at least to push them into a new direction. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. UnBarb is more user-friendly, and both allow for different cool things the other can't do. While the UnRogue straight up replaces the Rogue, both versions of the Barb can exist together, without one winning out over the other.
Also, your houseruling means that the current mechanic was long overdue anyway. The extra bits are just part of the streamlining process.

Liberty's Edge

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Talek & Luna wrote:
I do not understand what the big deal is with unchained barbarian. Rogue I get because they allow him to add dexterity instead of strength to attack and damage rolls over time. What does the barbarian get? Watered down damage rolls and temp hit points that are lost first? My group house ruled temp hit points being lost first a long time ago and barbarians lose out on damage with two handers with a flat +2 to +4 damage modifier as opposed to taking the equivalent strength bump. For example a low level barbarian deals +3 on damage with a +4 strength bump when using a two-hander but that is lost in this equation. I never understood why a barbarian becomes weaker when using a class feature with a penalty to AC. No other fighting class gets a penalty when using their special ability in this way. Fighters way outperform barbarians in damage. Please tell me how unchained fixes barbarians?

Unchained barbarian isn't a perfect fix for the class but it addresses a few problems.

1. It addresses the 'death by rage hit points' problem. There's been a handful of bandaid fixes to this across the years but the real solution is the one your group house ruled and Paizo finally implemented - making the hit points temps.

2. It addresses rage cycling to abuse once-per-rage powers. Some considered rage cycling the way barbarians were meant to be played but it was clearly an oversight. Unchained barbarian kills this loophole.

3. It address the often brought up 'imbalance' created when strength-based characters wield a weapon in two hands. Doing one extra damage per tier of rage was overpowered apparently.

Are these good fixes or even necessary? That remains to be seen. Personally I like the unchained barbarian.


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It mainly just dumbs down the Barbarian to make playing one less intimidating. If you knew how to use the original Barbarian the Unchained one is objectively inferior, losing out on massive amounts of utility because many of the strongest rage powers got big nerfs (Strength Surge and Spell Sunder being the worst targets). I have to give them credit for the temp HP change, that was good, but it's hard to feel happy about it when it's otherwise a much harder nerf than what the Summoner saw.

Also lol at Fighters outperforming Barbarians. The real Barbarian is one of the strongest full BAB classes in the game; only the Paladin and the Bloodrager realistically compete with its power and versatility.

Liberty's Edge

It's also pretty casually easy to mix the two in a home game. I, for example,use the Unchained Barbarian, but let them enter a Stance for free when hey Rage and allow the purchase of Spell Sunder.

That makes for a good compromise, I find.


As far as rage cycling, I figured my GM wouldn't like the idea, and never tried to bring it up. Good thing; when he got Unchained, his response was to use it as an example of what he didn't like.

I've had the dice go wrong on me a few times and my barbarian's been glad of having the temporary hit points rather than dropping and then dropping farther. I'll admit, the thought of needing a feat to avoid going from -1 to -9 HP is a little daunting (I ended up using that feat for Iron Will instead, since ... well, barbarian).

I'll admit, I can imagine some debate about the stance powers and which ones are 'optimal' and which are not. I've gone with accurate stance (IC Samantha had some issues chopping someone in a fog bank), and Taunting Stance is basically Come and Get Me, but a little different on how to trigger; I'm really tempted to snag it anyway.


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It got rid of the immersion-killing ridiculous stupidity that was rage cycling.

Temporary hit points are also bueno.


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Weird, gamey mechanic or not rage cycling is just the ass backwards answer to letting the Barbarian use the rage powers she should be able to use whenever she wants whenever she wants. Unchained Barbarian went in the opposite direction of what it should have done with regards to rage cycling.


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Not to mention UnBarb nixed a lot of the best rage powers. Want in-class flight or spell sunder? Well too bad, unchained barbarian fixed Paizo's terrible mistake of letting a martial have nice-things.


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It's a nerf made with the excuse of simplifying the class (before the announcement of Unchained I had NEVER EVEN HEARD anything about the Barbarian being too complex).

IMO, it's a sneaky, dishonest and unnecessary nerf, whose real reason of existence is the dev team being unconfortable with how effective Barbarians had become, despite the fact that they very well balanced.

Seriously... If they only wanted to simplify things, why nerf Rage Powers? And why not simplify other mechanics that are far more complex, such as Wildshape?


So I feel I need to point out, Rage Cycling has been in since the beginning.

Tireless Rage (Ex) wrote:
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.

It's not abuse or an oversight, it's clearly intended. Even the UBarb still has Tireless Rage (with specific rules so you don't just keep refreshing temp HP). Now, that being said, it is a super gamist mechanic. Get angry! Not angry. Get angry! Not angry. Get angry! Stuff really should have been 1/round instead of 1/rage. Or "spend a round of rage" like a bunch of other powers.

My real complaint with UBarb is that Dragon Totem Wings was removed. The other two Dragon Totem powers were included. This means that it was specifically left out. It's not particularly powerful, it doesn't use any strange mechanics (that weren't already used by other available rage powers). So the only reason it was left out was because someone at Paizo really didn't want the UBarb flying under their own power. Oh, and they included Sunder Enchantment but removed Spell Sunder (which is a prereq to the former) so... yeah. It comes across as retroactive editing.

Silver Crusade

Or maybe they left it out because they felt it didn't need to be modified? I didn't read anything in Unchained that said the UBarbarian can't take normal rage powers that weren't included on the list.

Liberty's Edge

Rysky wrote:
Or maybe they left it out because they felt it didn't need to be modified? I didn't read anything in Unchained that said the UBarbarian can't take normal rage powers that weren't included on the list.

Technically it does say only those on the list can be used unaltered. That said, using Unchained Barbarian at all is a House Rule, and adding them back in is literally the easiest House Rule in the history of House Rules.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Or maybe they left it out because they felt it didn't need to be modified? I didn't read anything in Unchained that said the UBarbarian can't take normal rage powers that weren't included on the list.
Technically it does say only those on the list can be used unaltered. That said, using Unchained Barbarian at all is a House Rule, and adding them back in is literally the easiest House Rule in the history of House Rules.

Ye, I don't get why someone would cry about "Evil Paizo wanting to nerf barbarians" .-. Like, what the heck is that supposed to mean. Even if you only play in PFS, only regular summoner is banned in PFS, Unchained & normal barbarian are both legal there.


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I actually like Ubarbar better since what makes the barbar better are things I've dubbed cheese and wouldn't ever use.

I also think Ubarbar is better designed because there isn't one true build nearly as much a vinilla barbar.


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Lemmy wrote:
Seriously... If they only wanted to simplify things, why nerf Rage Powers? And why not simplify other mechanics that are far more complex, such as Wildshape?

Absolutely. In a world where Wild Shape is a core class feature, the argument that "rage is 2 hard" is utterly bunk.

Silver Crusade

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Rhedyn wrote:

I actually like Ubarbar better since what makes the barbar better are things I've dubbed cheese and wouldn't ever use.

I also think Ubarbar is better designed because there isn't one true build nearly as much a vinilla barbar.

Um, what?

Anything you think is good for a Barbarian you dub cheese? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

The fact that dropping to -1 hp doesn't explode you into ludicrous gibs is a big selling point to me, especially when pitching the class to a newer player. I see the rage cycling and simpler math arguments as mostly besides the point - the temporary hp change was a very good one in and of itself.


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+ Temp HP change, so no instant death after rage. (However every table I have ever played pathfinder at except PFS already house ruled this in.)

- - - - - Nerfed one of the few good martial classes via nerfing its unique powers. (UBarb is nowhere near as versatile as OGBarb, Spell Sunder + Strength Surge alone has saved my players from at least 3 TPK's. Multiple minuses for multiple powers lost/nerfed.)

- Nerfed to eliminate rage cycling which is an intended mechanic, or what was Tireless rage for?

Basically reads to me like Bob Bob Bob, Lemmy, and Chengar Qordath hit it on the nose.

Full Disclosure: I was vastly disappointed in Unchained and stopped purchasing Paizo products afterwards.


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I love it. Simpler, better designed. TWF Barbs which are very common in fantasy (and real life) become better.

Good job, Paizo.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Covent wrote:
- Nerfed to eliminate rage cycling which is an intended mechanic, or what was Tireless rage for?

I can address this idea, which I've seen several times. Tireless Rage predates Pathfinder, but rage cycling wasn't a thing in 3.0/3.5. There were no rage powers back then. All Tireless Rage was intended to do was prevent you from taking the -2 Str/Dex, and prevent you from requiring a rest period between rages. Also 3.x raging was x times/day, for y rounds per rage, instead of being broken up into rounds of rage/day. I am reasonably confident that when they ported the barbarian over to Pathfinder, that it was never "intended" to do a sequence of "micro-rages," repeatedly using 1/rage powers.

I'm fairly certain that they noticed it was possible with Tireless Rage, but really at level 17 rage cycling isn't even close to the craziest thing going on. I'm not so certain they thought about other ways to get fatigue immunity. But remember round by round rage, and rage powers were both new at the time, so it's entirely possible they overlooked some interactions.

But yeah, Tireless Rage existed well before PF and rage cycling being a thing. It was originally just a minor bonus you got, a la monks being able to talk to everything or druids getting at will alter self.


I think an Unchained Barbarian would be significantly easier to navigate for a new player. Instead of a billion rage powers of varying qualities and interactions, there's a smaller provided list of a decent average quality. Sure, the really good abilities may have been nerfed, but it's much easier to understand what the Barbarian does. Higher optimization floor, lower optimization ceiling, and easier number-crunching make this class mostly a sidegrade. I'd let advanced players use the regular Barbarian or the Unchained version, as per their choice.


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
So I feel I need to point out, Rage Cycling has been in since the beginning.
Tireless Rage (Ex) wrote:
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.

It's not abuse or an oversight, it's clearly intended. Even the UBarb still has Tireless Rage (with specific rules so you don't just keep refreshing temp HP). Now, that being said, it is a super gamist mechanic. Get angry! Not angry. Get angry! Not angry. Get angry! Stuff really should have been 1/round instead of 1/rage. Or "spend a round of rage" like a bunch of other powers.

My real complaint with UBarb is that Dragon Totem Wings was removed. The other two Dragon Totem powers were included. This means that it was specifically left out. It's not particularly powerful, it doesn't use any strange mechanics (that weren't already used by other available rage powers). So the only reason it was left out was because someone at Paizo really didn't want the UBarb flying under their own power. Oh, and they included Sunder Enchantment but removed Spell Sunder (which is a prereq to the former) so... yeah. It comes across as retroactive editing.

Actually, they added it back in with another chain (elemental Blood).

Barbarians can take Bloodrager powers.

Elemental Blood grants flying if pick Electric.


except Ubarb isn't able to take that in PFS, because PFS limited the powers to only things printed in that book and nothing else.


But the Bloodrage section says Barbarians (which Unchaned are) can take it. Thus shouldn't that allow it in PFS?

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Lemmy wrote:

It's a nerf made with the excuse of simplifying the class (before the announcement of Unchained I had NEVER EVEN HEARD anything about the Barbarian being too complex).

IMO, it's a sneaky, dishonest and unnecessary nerf, whose real reason of existence is the dev team being unconfortable with how effective Barbarians had become, despite the fact that they very well balanced.

Seriously... If they only wanted to simplify things, why nerf Rage Powers? And why not simplify other mechanics that are far more complex, such as Wildshape?

I don't necessarily agree with the bit in the middle there, but add me to the list of those people who were extremely surprised to see the Barbarian of all classes show up on the list for Unchaining. It really seems as though Fighters, Druids, Cavaliers, Gunslingers, or maybe even Clerics would have made more sense as a class that could have used a fresh development pass and/or a reimagining or cleaning up of the mechanics.

I know that Jason Buhlman stated that the UBarb would be a "slight buff that makes the class easier for you to hand to your little brother so he can play", and while I don't think that that's quite how it turned out, it is definitely simpler on the math front and requires less system mastery to use, while opening up some combat styles that were harder to execute under the core Barb.

Unchained in general was a very hit-or-miss book for me, but I ended up using about as much of it as I do any other Paizo core book other than the CRB, so I'm pretty okay with it.


I believe the current PFS ruling is only the powers printed in unchained, which included the ones in the list of untouched powers, are allowed and other things aren't.
Now I don't believe that's what unchained intended.


If rage powers were super powerful I'd see the concern of rage cycling, but they aren't. Most of the 1/rage powers are so bad they're considered trap options. Making them "constant during rage" doesn't do much besides pull them out of the trash bin.


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The temporary HP thing is also a pretty big nerf. It cannot be recovered. The regular barbarian wasn't rocket science by any means, and when the enemy had carved through a large portion of the barbarian's HP, the party's healer could cast heal on the barbarian and restore all of the barbarian's HP.

There's also the fact that if a barbarian died because he dropped to -1 during a rage, he was already dead. The barbarian's rage allowed him to keep contributing to the struggle for survival even after he already would be dead.

For example, if the 6th level barbarian has 12 extra hit points from Rage and drops to anything below 12 HP during the rage, the barbarian was already dying, you just didn't notice it yet. If he's brought to 6 HP, he's already at -6 HP in reality. If he drops to -1 HP and his rage ends, well congratulations, you were actually already dead if you weren't raging but you had a window to keep kicking and avoid dying (such as giving your healer a chance to beat you with cure wands or spells).

The "rage will kill you" thing is a myth. It's always been a myth. If you would die when you stop raging you were already dead. It just meant that you made murdering you a hell of a lot harder on the enemy.

The unchained barbarian is just a strait nerf to a well balanced class - arguably the only non-magical class in the game worth anything. I'd recommend just not using it.


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Temp HP is a buff.
Barb rages from 50 to 60 HP. Takes 61 damage and dies.
UBarb rages from 50 to 50+10temp. Takes 61 damage and is just at -1.

I mean I guess yeah, you can't heal the UBarb back to 60 hp, but you just don't use healing that will go over what you have. They still have the d12 for HP and a decent to good con, plenty of HP to heal.


Doomed Hero wrote:
If rage powers were super powerful I'd see the concern of rage cycling, but they aren't. Most of the 1/rage powers are so bad they're considered trap options. Making them "constant during rage" doesn't do much besides pull them out of the trash bin.

Furthermore, if you're not explicitly saying "I stop and start my Rage as free actions" every round, there's nothing immersion-breaking about it. There is no reason, from a fluff or RP standpoint, that a given power is usable only once per rage. "You're too tired to do it" is only a good explanation if there is some kind of Stamina point system that gets depleted, you automatically drop out of Rage after doing the Tiring Thing, or if you would be prevented from doing any other Tiring Thing. But you're not, you can do two or three or five Tiring Things per Rage as long as each one is a different Rage Power.

Liberty's Edge

Temp HP also resets every Rage, so it's effectively free healing.

So, at 4 fights a day, assuming you take at least 20 damage a fight (not a weird assumption on a Barbarian), a 10th level Unchained Barbarian saves the party needing to heal 80 hp worth of damage. Assuming Wands of CLW, that averages 15 charges (and thus 15 turns of effort and 175 gp) saved a day.

That's not a huge savings in money on any one day, but it adds up enough to be nice. And the time savings could be critical.

Now, some of the Rage Power losses are legitimate nerfs, but that's easily changed and everything else is a definite sidegrade.


I will say, you can make a much tankier Barb with unchained. Than you could with normal barb.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Ashiel wrote:

The temporary HP thing is also a pretty big nerf. It cannot be recovered. The regular barbarian wasn't rocket science by any means, and when the enemy had carved through a large portion of the barbarian's HP, the party's healer could cast heal on the barbarian and restore all of the barbarian's HP.

There's also the fact that if a barbarian died because he dropped to -1 during a rage, he was already dead. The barbarian's rage allowed him to keep contributing to the struggle for survival even after he already would be dead.

For example, if the 6th level barbarian has 12 extra hit points from Rage and drops to anything below 12 HP during the rage, the barbarian was already dying, you just didn't notice it yet. If he's brought to 6 HP, he's already at -6 HP in reality. If he drops to -1 HP and his rage ends, well congratulations, you were actually already dead if you weren't raging but you had a window to keep kicking and avoid dying (such as giving your healer a chance to beat you with cure wands or spells).

The "rage will kill you" thing is a myth. It's always been a myth. If you would die when you stop raging you were already dead. It just meant that you made murdering you a hell of a lot harder on the enemy.

The unchained barbarian is just a strait nerf to a well balanced class - arguably the only non-magical class in the game worth anything. I'd recommend just not using it.

The thing you're missing is that the extra rage hp removes your dying buffer. Yes, a 50 hp barbarian who rages to 60 and takes 61 hp is just as dead as the 50 hp barbarian who takes 61. However, the 50 hp guy is less likely to take 61. Generally once a combatant drops the enemies stop hitting them.

The 50 hp guy who takes 53 drops and is bleeding out at -3. Plenty of time to bandage him, hit him with a healing spell, finish the fight and see to him. The barbarian raging to 60 who takes 53 is still up and going, at 7 hp, and so will be the target of more attacks. So now the next attack hit him for 15, and boom he goes straight from fighting to dead. Mid level and higher barbarians skip the bleeding out buffer that everyone else gets and just die when they drop, like a 1e character.

80-90% of the time I'd much rather be down and bleeding, than up but know for certain that the next hit will outright kill me. Sure, there are occasional situations where being up is better - foes who spend actions finishing off downed enemies, AoE attacks (hard to make Ref saves with Dex 0), and so forth. Basically once your barbarian level reaches 1/2 your Con score a single unlucky fight can kill you outright in a way that no non-raging class has to worry about. At least now there's Raging Vitality to remove this flaw.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Temp HP also resets every Rage, so it's effectively free healing.

So, at 4 fights a day, assuming you take at least 20 damage a fight (not a weird assumption on a Barbarian), a 10th level Unchained Barbarian saves the party needing to heal 80 hp worth of damage. Assuming Wands of CLW, that averages 15 charges (and thus 15 turns of effort and 175 gp) saved a day.

That's not a huge savings in money on any one day, but it adds up enough to be nice. And the time savings could be critical.

Not strictly true. You don't get the THP back if you drop your rage and rage again within a minute. That would be the best effect of it, giving you huge increases to durability if you cycled every round, but it only gives you a very slight increase to longevity. If you're doing 5 encounters a day averaging CR = APL in a 4 person party for that assumption, you're saving 175 gp of 5450 earned per day. So... 3.2% of your individual income. Yay?

Spoiler:
Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
She also gains 2 temporary hit points per Hit Die. These temporary hit points are lost first when a character takes damage, disappear when the rage ends, and are not replenished if the barbarian enters a rage again within 1 minute of her previous rage.

ryric wrote:

The thing you're missing is that the extra rage hp removes your dying buffer. Yes, a 50 hp barbarian who rages to 60 and takes 61 hp is just as dead as the 50 hp barbarian who takes 61. However, the 50 hp guy is less likely to take 61. Generally once a combatant drops the enemies stop hitting them.

The 50 hp guy who takes 53 drops and is bleeding out at -3. Plenty of time to bandage him, hit him with a healing spell, finish the fight and see to him. The barbarian raging to 60 who takes 53 is still up and going, at 7 hp, and so will be the target of more attacks. So now the next attack hit him for 15, and boom he goes straight from fighting to dead. Mid level and higher barbarians skip the bleeding out buffer that everyone else gets and just die when they drop, like a 1e character.

80-90% of the time I'd much rather be down and bleeding, than up but know for certain that the next hit will outright kill me. Sure, there are occasional situations where being up is better - foes who spend actions finishing off downed enemies, AoE attacks (hard to make Ref saves with Dex 0), and so forth. Basically once your barbarian level reaches 1/2 your Con score a single unlucky fight can kill you outright in a way that no non-raging class has to worry about. At least now there's Raging Vitality to remove this flaw.

Sort of. At low levels that's pretty true, but once you get into the land of heal being a thing, enemies are way more likely to just outright finish you off if you drop, since you could but up at full health again with a single action. At most that amounts to enemies spending one more action to finish you off if you drop which, as you said Raging Vitality handles (while also making you even more durable with an extra +2 Con).


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Although it is difficult to picture, a finesse based barbarian also becomes possible since the rage bonuses for an unchained barbarian are disconnected from the ability scores that they would be based on for a standard barbarian.


Chess Pwn wrote:
I will say, you can make a much tankier Barb with unchained. Than you could with normal barb.

I'd be interested in seeing that.


Guarded stance is a pretty strong AC booster.
Ubarbs still can get Beast totem for AC.
Increased DR is now 2 instead of just 1.
Superstition is competence bonus and stacks with Rage bonus and with Heroism.

This gives you a +2 and +2/4 levels to AC and higher saves and more DR.

Even if going accurate stance you don't have the AC penalty that Reckless abandon has that the normal Barb would need to match the accuracy.


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ryric wrote:
The thing you're missing is that the extra rage hp removes your dying buffer. Yes, a 50 hp barbarian who rages to 60 and takes 61 hp is just as dead as the 50 hp barbarian who takes 61. However, the 50 hp guy is less likely to take 61. Generally once a combatant drops the enemies stop hitting them.

This is quite the assumption given that overkill damage is more and more frequent as you gain levels (because damage per hit scales faster than your Con modifier), and it also assumes a level of mercy and certain tactics among your enemies.

When you're on the ground you are helpless and unconscious. Your AC is -5 and your opponent receives a +4 to hit you because you're prone, resulting in a net -9 AC (there's some confusion as to whether you also receive the +4 attack for targeting a helpless target, and if you do, -13 AC). So without even using a coup de grace, someone can just slap you once more (likely killing you) and then moving. This doesn't provoke attacks and is tactically intelligent in a world where someone can just pop a channel energy or something and suddenly those near dead guys spring back to life.


Ashiel wrote:
The temporary HP thing is also a pretty big nerf. It cannot be recovered. The regular barbarian wasn't rocket science by any means, and when the enemy had carved through a large portion of the barbarian's HP, the party's healer could cast heal on the barbarian and restore all of the barbarian's HP.

It's not nearly as black and white as you're making it. In a best case scenario (Heal completely tops you off to 100% of your full HP while raging) you have a some extra HP to burn through. But if you were particularly low, Heal might not fully heal you regardless (since it's 10 HP per level, and an 'average' Barbarian at high levels likely has more than that, not even counting rage), and then it's only a few HP you're gaining.

Furthermore, if you follow the standard advice on these boards, you'll be building your 'Superstition/Human FCB bonus Barbarian' and will be rocking your >+22 Will save at level 13. You will likely waste the Heal spell, unless you burn Moment of Clarity. Of course, if you use Moment of Clarity, that could easily put you unconscious if you're in a tough fight where the extra HP matter, in which case it's a matter of whether your enemies or your cleric gets to act first in terms of if they kill you or not (a problem the Unchained Barbarian doesn't have, since dropping out of Rage will never put him unconscious). Oh, and Moment of Clarity means you won't be gaining those extra HP back from the Heal anyway.


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Okay, that's a fair point. It still doesn't excuse the breadth of nerfs the barbarian got everywhere else.


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I really like the way Kirthfinder does the Barbarian's extra health; it basically gives you an ablative health bar that can be healed while you're raging unlike temp HP. When you leave rage any damage in your extra health bar is applied as DOT to your real health at 1 HP per level per round until all the damage is accounted for.


ITT I learned that immersion and verisimilitude aren't major priorities for many around here.


immersion and verisimilitude are a person by person things. And it's each persons job to create their immersion and verisimilitude for the rules.

Does it seem funny to us? Maybe, but in the pathfinder world it's apparently very common. Or it's uncommon and something few Barbs know about and use. Like there are many things that can help fill ones immersion and verisimilitude problems.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gambit wrote:
ITT I learned that immersion and verisimilitude aren't major priorities for many around here.

Yeah, because someone has a different opinion on how a mechanic impacts their gameplay must mean they don't care, not just that they don't see it in the same way as you do.


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Gambit wrote:
ITT I learned that immersion and verisimilitude aren't major priorities for many around here.

I learned years ago that some people just can't separate RP and mechanics.


I hate rage cycling as much as the next guy but this is not the way to do it. I'd rather just have a rule that says that you have to wait a full round out of rage to get the once per rage abilities back.

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