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Dracovar's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 97 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Seconds on using the Feather Token - Oak. Although in one game (where the industrial revolution was kicking in and trains/railways were running) I thought about using a couple to derail a train...planting it in the track just enough ahead of the train that there was no way it could stop...then the entire item got banned outright, heheh. Also great for decorating your city when you don't want to wait decades for nice big trees to grow along your boulevard.

Feather Token - Anchor. A key (and cheap) component in my "destroy the navy" strategy. Invisible flying spellcaster flies over and lands on a ship and triggers it. Ship grinds to a halt for no apparent reason. While the crew starts wondering what's going on, spellcaster flies up a couple hundred feet and opens up his Treasure Stitched piece of cloth, triggering the command word...

Which then releases a 9x9x9 piece of stone (read 50 ton block of doom) to plummet onto the stationary ship below.

For a relatively cheap investment, you can "Pearl Harbor" an entire fleet.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sounds like you really want to do a Way of the Wicked campaign. Which, incidentally, is very well reviewed. Covers all the wonderfully evil things your group might want to do.

Having read it, I would highly recommend it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sounds like it's a bit old school - the DM has to do some work integrating the dungeon into his/her campaign world. Nothing wrong with that, unless you've never ever done it - then you might find yourself at a bit of a loss.

I'm awaiting my copy (just recently ordered). So, what will I do with it?

Well, first I'll read it through see what the various challenges are, etc. Then, I'll see where in my campaign would make a good location to place the dungeon, preferably near where my PC's are active (if they aren't actively working through an Adventure Path).

After that, use NPC's, found maps, and other plot hooks to get them to start investigating the level(s) of the dungeon. Use those quests, factions, etc to build some backstory to the dungeon and the surrounding area where I've placed it.

You might find a read through Ultimate Campaign to be helpful.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Dracovar wrote:
I'd love to see a kind of "Against the Giants" style AP for Pathfinder / Golarion. Back in the "good ol days" beating up giants was one of our favorite things to do. Getting beat up by the giants, not so much (that happened too).
As it turns out, we'd love to see that too.

Excellent. Shaddup and take my money. Again. <grin>


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'll take 300K in simulacrums of really useful monsters, decoys of myself, etc, etc, over a golem any day of the week.


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I'd love to see a kind of "Against the Giants" style AP for Pathfinder / Golarion. Back in the "good ol days" beating up giants was one of our favorite things to do. Getting beat up by the giants, not so much (that happened too).


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James Jacobs wrote:

We've showed the first cover for Iron Gods, so I guess the secret is out at least somewhere...

The Iron Gods iconics are:

Gunslinger
Druid
Alchemist
Barbarian

Nice lineup. Forgot about the Alchemist - that sounds like a really good fit. Now, I have to go find that cover...(I just bought the Numeria product, so I figured at least Amiri would be a lock...).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My guesses, and I like some of the guesses Samas had above...

Lirianne - we've got tech here and that means tech weaponry in all likelyhood (futuristic firearms and who knows what else). Also, she hasn't featured yet. This would probably be a perfect path to introduce her. She'll need to be a bit of a tech skill monkey to complement the gunnery - lets just hope she doesn't tinker with any nukes...

Amiri - for reasons described above. Also, it looks like she is on one Numeria product cover now already. Probably a taste of what's to come?

Seoni - blast those bots with electricity. She's a popular iconic but her using lots of evoc magic vs the bots might be key to her making the roster.

Lini - for clerical spells/healing as well as a nature vs machine dynamic. Might play very well if interacting with tech averse barbarian tribes. Nature might very much abhor a vacuum...cleaner, so it would be cool if she got the nod to help defend Golarion from these metal monstrosities.

Edit - just realized all my choices were female - so, that would probably not fly (though it would be cool). So - maybe nix Seoni and put in Ezren (he can do evoke spells almost as well). An INT based caster might be useful for figuring out technology puzzles.

Edit Edit - was editing and Set spotted my all female team. Ninja'd. Do I have to add Reiko now? Or was she already there to round out my Fox Force Five?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Upon first glance at the illustration I couldn't help but think...

"The Protoss are coming to Golarion?" Followed promptly by.."Can the Zerg be far behind?"

StarCraft meets Pathfinder. Hmnnn...


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Dracovar wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
icehawk333 wrote:

Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.

You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.

Funny thing is this is Technically correct.

Which is what always drives me nuts about the whole "diamond dust worth x", "rubies worth x", etc. etc. It makes no sense to me and ruins a certain sense of verisimilitude.

I think the components should be based on "x carats of diamonds" or "x carats of rubies". The value of a carat can fluctuate due to market conditions, rarity, etc, but the DM should never set it below a minimum requirement for the spell (unless he has a good reason to).

So, say one carat of diamonds is worth 1000 gp.

Well, this creates its own problems of verisimilitude. Diamonds and other precious gems aren't valued per carat. Aside from the fact that gem quality is a key issue (a flawless diamond is worth a lot more than one with a noticeable flaw, and even color has an effect), a two carat diamond is worth substantially more than twice what two similar one-carat diamonds would be worth.

Quote:
Case in point: You need 25 carats for the Miracle spell.

I can buy diamonds at -- literally -- 4 cents (US) per carat. So that's a dollar.

Now try giving your girlfriend a dollar's worth of sandpaper-quality diamonds and you'll see why I can get them so cheaply.

I think the notion of diamond dust worth x is rather silly, since diamond dust is practically valueless -- but the idea that a ruby that is brightly colored, well-cut, flawless, &c is more magically powerful makes sense. So I need at least 500gp worth of gem quality in order to power my magical spell.

Good points, true enough. Obviously the game dynamic is meant to make those spells harder to cast, due to cost and supposed rarity of the material component.

From more practical perspectives, I think just making it 25k in "rare" substances to cast a spell (but not so rare that you can't find them) - essentially putting just a GP cost on it - might be more reasonable. Then treat the material components availability the same way you'd treat a magic item - small settlements just won't have the necessary stuff to cast the spell...

Just tossing ideas out and musing out loud...


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Draco18s wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
icehawk333 wrote:

Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.

You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.

Funny thing is this is Technically correct.

Which is what always drives me nuts about the whole "diamond dust worth x", "rubies worth x", etc. etc. It makes no sense to me and ruins a certain sense of verisimilitude.

I think the components should be based on "x carats of diamonds" or "x carats of rubies". The value of a carat can fluctuate due to market conditions, rarity, etc, but the DM should never set it below a minimum requirement for the spell (unless he has a good reason to).

So, say one carat of diamonds is worth 1000 gp. You need 25 carats for the Miracle spell. But, lets say diamonds are in short supply - and the average going rate for a carat is 1500 gp. Well, then that Miracle spell is going to cost you more. Conversely, if there is a glut of diamonds on the market, maybe it might cost you less (!). And the DM gets to be the arbiter of what that cost is going to be.

It does require the DM to change up treasure a bit - so, instead of getting 1000 gp worth of diamonds as treasure, you get a 1 carat diamond.

Also, mining companies should be stinking rich with all the spellcasters depleting the non-renewable resources (unless you are mining the elemental plane of earth, I suppose).


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You could Poly Any Object the phylactery into just another copper coin. Put some high powered anti-divination spells on it. Then cast Magic Aura (1 day/level) on the coin so that it doesn't radiate magic. Hide in a treasure trove with 100,000 other copper coins.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Travelling from town to town attached to a wandering merchant who needed a few extra goons to help protect his cart(s) on the roads between towns/cities. NPC could serve as a mentor / source of info for the party - he was the first to appreciate Gregor's ability to be ready for trouble at any time. For Gregor, the merchant was the first to give him a role and feel valued, and who didn't judge him too harshly when his anger flared. Maybe said NPC has a level or two of spellcasting (just a dabbler), but encouraged Gregor that he too could dabble in the path of magic, or more, if he had the will.

The NPC merchant is in Sandpoint for the Festival - Gregor's got the day off to go to the festivities and...

<queue the curtain to rise>


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Propsken wrote:

Permanently polymorph it into a common rock. Drop it in the local equivalent of the Mariana trench. Take a six-day power-nap. Demand payment.

EDIT Go anachronistic. Polymorph it into an old Nokia phone. GIVE it to the crusaders. Laugh diabolically/uncontrolably/maniacally.

Probably the only reason I worry about dropping it somewhere "hard to get to" is that it cedes the initiative to the opposition (read: DM). So now, instead of having to contend with the active defenses of a party, he just has to solve a problem - how do I find and get to the phylactery? And magic has a way of making the impossible very possible.

As an unattended item, couldn't it just be "wished" into your hand? Or something equally easy?

So, I'd keep the phylactery close and "attended". I want a character to save against an effect, not an unattended object. Makes it harder to find and destroy, I think.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Get the witch to swallow it. Edit - use Poly Any Object to make it super small (not Imp sized as OP mentioned in a later post).

Ensure witch has a Mind Blank and other protective spells active (contingencies, etc). Ensure all the companions of said witch are Mind Blanked too. Keep the group as untrackable as possible.

Then, enchant some small glass orb to make it *look* like a phylactery and act like that item is the one you are protecting at all costs (lead lined box, etc). Make a decoy device, heck, make a few.

Trying to get to the swallowed glass bead should prove to be difficult. Although there are certain practical issues involved (digestion being what it is...), at least you know where it is at all times.

Alternately, and playing upon Insaneogeddon (great handle, BTW) idea of the bunny - use Poly Any Object to turn Glass Orb INTO a creature, say, a bunny, and then Imprison the bunny (perhaps after casting Mind Blank on the bunny too). People will be looking for an Orb - not a creature. Heck, Poly Any Object the orb into "Bob the Commoner", put a Mind Blank on him, and keep him around in the biggest city there is. Security through obscurity. Just stay close by. Also, you'll have to refresh that Poly Any Object on a regular basis.

Edit again - ok, Bob isn't viable (20 minutes isn't too good). But, Poly Any Object into a creature, Mind Blanking the creature and THEN using Imprisonment would work very nicely, I think.


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On the off chance that Mythic rules get into the mix...a Mythic Magic Missile, especially when Augmented at Tier 4, can be pretty brutal. Maximized, and with 2 Mythic points, the spell can hit for 90 points of damage, a Line of Sight range, and pretty much *NOTHING* can stop it. Not SR, not Spell Immunity, not Shield.

But, that does require a particular rules set that lends itself to a lot of Rocket Tag tactics.


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I think your spellcasting side is seriously underpowered. By later in the AP the party won't have access to the kinds of high level spells they are going to need.

Paladin is a good choice for sure. Gunslinger or Ranged Inquisitor - pick one. Dump the monk and the range expert you didn't choose for two full casters - some arcane and divine firepower (Wiz/Sorc/Cleric/Druid/Witch).

The party needs some healing and decent spell variety. The party at present has very little healing and spell variety to deal with different situations/scenarios.

If you are going full on Mythic you will want/need some of that mythic spellcasting provided by some full caster classes.

You do get some significant potential boosts by bringing NPC's, (who can come with you), but they are not substitutes for a good selection of PC classes.

The counter point may be that the Mythic Rocket Tag, coupled with essential 4 martial classes, just might overpower/overwhelm the opposition. But sooner or later, I suspect the party will really miss not having some serious healing skills, as well as high level Wizard spells.

Have you thought about how to replace those capabilities with your current idea of Pally, Slinger, Monk and Inquisitor?


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Bah - go with a witch. Or a Magus/Hexcrafter. Take the Sleep HEX. OP said he's got a tier of Mythic too - so, take the Mythic Hex as part of your first tier load out.

Archmage = Wild Arcana (so, you don't have to worry that your familiar is missing spells). First path ability = Mythic Hexes.

Against non-Mythic targets - Mythic Sleep Hex. There is NO SAVE for one round. Carry a Scythe for the coup de grace, or let the party meat shield handle that. Timing, of course, is important, but you can drop and chop one target a round.

And Mythic Hex does NOT require the expenditure of mythic points (you'll have precious few at Tier One), which is great, you can use this all day.

How's that?


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Soooo,
What about having a Protection from Evil up and running? Geas/Quest is an Enchantment (compulsion) effect. If currently under a Geas/Quest, those effects would be suppressed during the spell duration. If NOT under a Geas/Quest - I'd go with what is written: "While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target" - so, Geas/Quest goes "poof" when you try it on a target with Prot Evil running (assuming source was evil, in this case).

The long casting time doesn't make the spell very combat effective, unless you're facing the Miracle -> Geas thing, at which point, you've probably got bigger problems anyways...


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Tim Statler wrote:


Treasure stitching is a great way to haul lots af treasure easily.

Oh so close - but, I prefer to use Treasure Stitching for it's offensive potential.

Place a 9x9x9 foot square cube of solid stone onto the cloth and store that. Then, while flying over say, a castle or perhaps a ship (conveniently rendered immobile by a Quaal's Feather Token - Anchor while I'm invisible and flying) then from a decent height, unfurl and release the content of the cloth.

9x9x9 = 729 cubic feet of stone. Lets say it's a bit harder than sandstone, but not actual granite, and give it a rough 150 lbs per cubic foot. You are dropping a 50 ton block of stone on your target. Do it from a few hundred feet in the air.

You can hit even harder if you find a use for those left over Wall of Iron spells (at 450 lbs/cubic foot).

Bombs Away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Perhaps Paizo should get their networking guys to take a look - maybe they can block the IP address (assuming there is just one and not an entire block that could block legit users and that it doesn't turn into a game of 'whack-a-mole').


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As many point out - your problem is your GM. That's gotta be some of the most questionable LG interpretations I've seen since Iomedae decided it would be a brilliant move to smack around some mythic heroes because they answered her questions incorrectly...(WotR path).

Since other players in the group decided to play LG, presumably KNOWING that this is how your GM interprets that alignment, well, leave to *them* to figure out how to get into the building. In the meantime, have your character go have an ale at the local taphouse.

If you do actually have 4th level divination spells, well, use them to provide the proof the party needs. If not, see my note about going to have a beer (perhaps literally and figuratively speaking).

I'd chalk this one up to "hey guys, you all are LG, so, figure out what our next move is. It's your alignment that's on the line, not mine."


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LazarX wrote:
Dracovar wrote:

Various kingdoms should have a couple of bag of holding/portable hole combos in strategic reserve - for when that pesky Tarrasque or <insert uber monster here> shows up to cause havoc.

Deployed and triggered by dimension dooring Simulacra who aren't going to disobey or question your orders.

:-)

The Tarrasque is simply too big, too awesome, too Arnold, to be sucked in by tiny planar vortex.

I'd read the vortex as RAW - if a creature is close enough to the effect, it gets sucked in. But, ya, I can see your point.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Various kingdoms should have a couple of bag of holding/portable hole combos in strategic reserve - for when that pesky Tarrasque or <insert uber monster here> shows up to cause havoc.

Deployed and triggered by dimension dooring Simulacra who aren't going to disobey or question your orders.

:-)


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@Alleran - that's some fine work there. But, just a note, I rather doubt a single nuclear event at Starfall would seriously irradiate all of Avistan. You wouldn't want to be downwind, obviously, but even if it was something on the scale of Tsar Bomba there is only so much damage it could do. I merely point that out because, well, we on Earth have triggered a few nuclear events of our own. Like 2000+.

Check out this fun timeline of nuclear testing, 1945-1998:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV18EBBA4ZQ

Starfall is a hiccup compared to the Kyonin Event. I've been trying to figure out what might work for calculating the damage as described in the AP using this site:

http://www.purdue.edu/impactearth/

Enjoy.


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The Purity of Violence wrote:

Seriously doesn't anyone look at the OP other posts????

Back in Feb this year he started a thread titled "how to deal with a half arsed paladin" complaining about his paladin player. The OP came across as a control freak who wanted the paladin PC to fall because he had been gambling. The thread eventually got locked with multiple posts deleted.

He forces to the paladin's player to sign up to a code where the paladin will fall if "he every murders a child" (first on a list of you WILL fall if you...).

Lo and behold a few months latter he introduces into his ROTRL campaign, after four levels of goblin slaughter, a "good" tribe of goblins which plenty of NPCs know about but strangely failed to mention to the PCs. He then sets up the party to attack the goblins and BAM there falls the paladin.

Then he starts trolling here to get support for what has to be some of the worst DMing I have every seen.

So Mulet, to go back to your original post

Mulet wrote:
I need this post to make sure I'm not bullying Justin.

you've totally failed your group.

Am I being harsh? Maybe this wasn't a trap? It sure smells like one - exactly what is the stealthy good tribe of goblins adding to ROTRL? Of course here's Mulet's opinion on 'whoever' wrote ROTRL - he knows better

Mulet wrote:
Both us DM's re-process the atrociously laid out contents. (Seriously, the dudes that write up campaign stuff need to be slapped.)
from here.

Requoting, because frankly, Purity nails it. So does Shadowkire

@Mulet - I've read the other threads of yours too. You freely admit back in February that you like to make things hard. Ok, so congrats, you trapped your Paladin (much like I suspect you always wanted to) and got the result you wanted. So live with it. Paladin has fallen, don't even try the whole "redemption" route. Because, if history is a judge, you'll just do it to him again (and by extension, the party) again.

You previously posted that your party had a goblin to interrogate for 3 sessions (and this good aligned goblin tribe never came up, it seems). An NPC, presumably a trustworthy one (Shalelu), gave them a strategic briefing and never mentioned a "good" goblin tribe (why not? That's pretty important stuff when goblins around Sandpoint are generally "kill on sight" pests Heck, in another AP Sandpoint reinstitutes a "per ear" bounty on goblins!! That goblins are evil is a pretty reasonable line to take for a PC party). Then, another NPC managed to "trick" them into wiping out the tribe. Wouldn't take much, you've intentionally set the table for the party to go in, guns blazing, given intentional, on the DM's part, omissions to information that the party really should have had. Final straw - Paladin never got a hint of warning after the first couple of goblin kills that perhaps this was a big mistake, y'know, like losing his powers, feeling a disconnect with his god, etc.

If you wanted to mess with the Paladin (and lots of your other postings rather suggest this, I'd say), then congrats, you succeeded. But then, any DM can lay a trap for players, and Paladins are especially vulnerable to DM shenanigans. You can add me to Purity's camp regarding bad DM'ing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Was the player aware of your earlier interaction with the NPC? If so, his actions appear questionable - he should be sticking up for you, not the NPC. Ask him what is he possibly thinking and does he ever want another Cure spell during the rest of his career?

If not aware of your history with this NPC, make him aware of those earlier interactions and explain to the player you acted like that towards the NPC for very good reasons. And to butt out. Unless, once again, he doesn't feel he'll ever need a Cure spell again.

Tell him outright that you don't expect him to pull this again, and if he does, you fully expect the rest of the party to rally to your defense. Make sure you have buy-in from your fellow players on this, before playing the card.

If he persists, go full murder hobo on his character. Or, perhaps just carry through with your threat to not heal him.

Of course, the best thing to likely do is coach this "young and fairly new player to PF" about some of the basic, unwritten rules of party interaction - for most groups Player vs Player conflict is frowned upon (or outright banned). Then go full murder hobo on his character.

:-)


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Axial wrote:

Obviously, the most amusing thing to do after closing the Worldwound is to scour Cheliax from the Material Plane.

Watch out, Abrogail...we're coming for you.

Perhaps the world has a way of balancing things. Perhaps, with the emergence of these Mythic Heroes, some Mythic Devils show up to ensure that Cheliax isn't scoured from the Material Plane. Or a party of Mythic Adventurers that aren't exactly on the side of the angels that have interests of their own arise independently from another part of Golarion. Perhaps for every Sherlock there is a Moriarty.

I'd see the victorious Mythic party as being semi-retired. They are now the "behind the scenes" movers and shakers. They are the ones now "employing" new generations of adventuring parties and using proxies to conduct business. They are the Circle of Eight/Harper Leaders/whatever of the world. But if they start sticking their fingers directly into things - well, equally powerful challenges will appear (leading to a Mythic Adventure, perhaps, but something that likely plays out on a plane, rather than Golarion).

So let em fade into semi-retirement, much like Sprain Ogre suggests.


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Scavion wrote:
Oh yeah and a Simulacrum template.

Agreed. But since I'm impatient, I went and made one of my own, heavily cribbed from some excellent Simulacra threads on the boards here.


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Thanks Erik - I've sent you a PM. Murphy's Law - I got home later in the day and my package arrived! Please cancel the replacement and thanks for the prompt and excellent service!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hi Paizo Customer Service,
I'm starting to think that my shipment - for Part 6 of the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path - has gone missing/astray. It was supposedly shipping on Feb 21 and we are now well past the 7-11 business days for shipping.

Should I wait a bit longer (the shipment is going to Canada) or raise the issue now?

If it has gone astray, what are my next steps/remedy? I have all the order information handy if needed...

thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hi James, after searching the Boards I've come up blank on this:

Divine Source from Mythic Adventures. Say a character has 10 character levels, and 10 Mythic tiers, and (s)he has selected Divine Source at 3rd, 6th and 9th tier. By RAW, he can cast 1st through 9th level spells from a number of different domains/sub-domains.

But, what is his caster level? Is it 10 (his HD), is it 10 (his Mythic Tier) is it 20 (double Mythic Tier)?

My players argue for double Mythic Tier, that is, by the time you hit Tier 9, you can cast 9th level spells (and double the Mythic Tier would indicate a 18th level caster, which seems to make sense).

And, what stat would determine the saving throw? Wisdom? Charisma? The character's main stat (Int, or perhaps Strength if it was a fighter)?

thanks in advance if you can help clarify!!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ninjaxenomorph wrote:
I am planning a Clone Master alchemist who is basically a pimp; he provides permanent simulacrums depending on the clients tastes. Lesser ones are samples.

Try sims of Dopplegangers - they should be able to read your client's minds for their ideal companion, and then provide just what the client wants...as well as perusing their thoughts for other tidbits of information that they could report back to you..

Pimp and Spymaster rolled into one...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Upon getting the Core Rulebook, oh so many years ago, one of the very first things I house ruled was that Simulacrum does require a piece of the creature to be copied. Still makes it an immensely useful and abusable spell, but does put the brakes on some game ending things like - hey, lets just sim the end boss monster and find out his evil plans...because why wouldn't you (not considering meta-game considerations like, "whelp, there goes another AP down the drain").

Now, once you require a piece of the creature as a spell component, this can also lead to some reflection on just who/what you want to sim. In my campaign, the best sims are the ones of yourself, or also of creatures not likely to have lots of allies (or infinite numbers of allies - like Outsiders might have). Once word gets out that you are building Solars/Pit Fiends/Efreeti wish machines, you ARE going to get a visit from some appropriate representatives. At a CR level you will not be able to survive. As an object lesson to the next wizard who gets a little too cute with abusing the spell.

If we believe that a sim has some degree of knowledge, etc, you best make sure you "program" it - a Solar without explicit instructions on what he can/cannot do WILL follow your every order. But the second you aren't looking, he's going to find a way to tattle on you to the Upper Planes...and then you'll be getting that aforementioned visit...

But Crafting Sims are a fine use for the spell. And scouts. Magical firepower platforms, sure. But, if you want to maintain some versimilitude to your campaign world, you best think about how the world is going to look once Sim-usage becomes popular. What's good for the PC's is also good for the BBEG, I always say...

Of course, the availability of ruby dust could slow things down. Considering the value/cost, etc. My PC's can't just assume that Bob's Jewelry shop in Backwater Berg is going to have 5000 gp worth of rubies. Unusual material components should NOT be readily available. And if you go nuts with Simulacra, why wouldn't governments clamp down and declare rubies to be a "strategic resource" and proceed to corner the market. And a mine that produces rubies? Talk about a target worth taking (and that would be extremely well protected)! I'm sure there may be other magical means around this, but still.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when you add the Alchemist into the mix. Their sims are much, much cheaper to build - and only require unnamed reagents. Perhaps you can limit those too, just like ruby dust.

Edit: Of course, Blood Money is the most logical way around the Ruby issue, as has been mentioned. But, that spell came out of the Rise of the Runelords - so, what if the events/AP never happened? Would you make that spell available to your PC's anyways?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
Odraude wrote:
To be fair, she is the goddess of paladins. I shouldn't be surprised that the Queen of Paladins is everything that is Lawful Stupid.
I'm just going to link the rant I already did on this wretched, flimsy, and pointless excuse for an excuse.

To be fair, you forgot that I later mentioned my glaring omission of /sarcasm ON and /sarcasm OFF...

Although I do feel a perverse amount of pride in the table flip mode comment in your rant. That was gold.

But, I'm still totally in agreement with you and chuckg (whose newsletter I believe I need to subscribe to...) /GRIN.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Actually, as a GM you can have a lot of fun with this while at the same time letting your player scratch that itch to make extra money.

First, you need to be clear with the player that you won't allow it to unbalance the WBL guidelines. So, what is your business (run by cohort and followers) doing with the money? Reinvesting. Buildings, equipment, wages, etc all need to be attended to. Let this be the PC's eventual retirement plan - running his successful company as an NPC. It might be a satisfying conclusion to an adventuring career, to retire as the head of a influential merchant house, temple, or whatever.

Second, allow a little trinket now and again. Reward creativity and effort. Don't let the bonus overshadow the other players WBL, or perhaps the player might gift something to everyone - keeping all the PC's on an equal footing (and giving them a reason to help support this business endeavour). I like having players really into the game, if this helps for this player, go for it. And the little extra trinkets now and again make up for what I'm going to do to them...

Finally, why do I not mind this kind of thing? Well, cohorts and followers that are being pimped out for work create a vulnerability for the PC. Lots of potential for plot hooks. Lots of targets if a BBEG gets away and wants to extract some revenge. Who knows, maybe the cohort gets tempted to siphon off a bit for himself and the PC finds himself trying to reign in a wayward cohort.

So, I see it as an opportunity for lots of fun and additional challenges to pose to the PC(s). As far as the wealth goes, well, I see that as more of an "endgame" reward. Once their retired, does it really matter if their WBL is somewhat out of whack? Not to me. Because they are no longer adventuring and it ceases to be a consideration.


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That would be the reward that you DON'T take. Take one of the other ones that are infinitely more useful.

That reward is a Stupid Test. Unless there is a glaring/gaping hole in your equipment load out that you can *only fill via this reward*.


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By the end of the AP, it's probably retirement time anyways, so...

Reward him for his endeavours! He's retired after that, so if he's filthy rich, it matters how?

:-)


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I honestly think some sort of Energy Conversion (1st tier archmage) is required. Being able to adjust your elemental damage type (like from shocking grasp) on the fly is vital.


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Chuckg wrote:
Whoa yeah. Dracovar, my mental apologies for my thoughts of the past hour or so.

My avatar is what it is for a reason, heheh.

I'm more a fan of nuanced Evil and hate the "black moustache twirling, AHAHAHAHA I'M EVIL, stereotypes". So, the LG corrolate of that, what many refer to as Lawful Stupid, grinds my gears too.

What I do like and appreciate is that James himself has been following this thread (at least part way, perhaps longer). His comments, at least how I read between the lines, is that perhaps Paizo realizes it might have goofed this one up. It takes a big person to admit, "ya, that wasn't what we intended, we probably could have done it better". I sense James is that kind of a guy.

You rarely see that from companies, much less their leadership. So, while I do like to stir the pot, I would obviously rewrite this to make Iomedae much more understanding, compassionate, sympathetic and likeable. Doesn't mean that you can't wrap those qualities up in a Fist of Iron. You can have those qualities and still be as tough as nails and unflinching in the face of evil. But writing to that requires a lot of skill, and perhaps more word count than the encounter really allowed for.


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Orthos wrote:
Dracovar wrote:
Chuckg wrote:


Iomedae is supposed to be the paladin of paladins --

Just had to snip this part out...

Given how many PC's, DMPC's and NPC Paladins are played as Lawful Stupid asshats (to use another posters phrase), does it not stand to reason that Iomedae should be the Paragon of Lawful Stupid asshats?

So, if seen in this light, Iomedae is acting, as written, exactly as one would expect. She really is the "paladin of paladins".

<smirk>

And this. This really is my problem with the whole thing. This attitude.

Thank GOD my players don't play or treat paladins like this. That little "<smirk>" thrown on the end of that was almost enough to put me into tableflip mode...

Tableflip mode. My work here is done. :-)

Ok, but seriously, I should have prefaced my post with <sarcasm /ON> and then <sarcasm /OFF>. I'm in total agreement with Orthos, Chuckg, and others of similar mindset.

LG can be nuanced. LG can be flawed. LG should not be monomanical "if you are evil, bonk goes my mace". This AP is about redeeming demons, shifting bad guys from the dark side to the good, etc. It's about exploring those shades of grey and realizing that the exemplars of Good, as characterized by the PC heroes of the AP, can stop and take a moment to really think about the consequences of their actions, that the bad guy may not just be another collection of HP and treasure - that maybe, just maybe, violence doesn't have to be the only solution.

The problem is that Iomedae fell into the sterotypical flaw that so many of us hate the most about how LG is often characterized - unyielding, unhumourous, no flexibility, rigidly bound to action that defies all logic, etc - the quintessential Lawful Stupid in my books.


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Chuckg wrote:


Iomedae is supposed to be the paladin of paladins --

Just had to snip this part out...

Given how many PC's, DMPC's and NPC Paladins are played as Lawful Stupid asshats (to use another posters phrase), does it not stand to reason that Iomedae should be the Paragon of Lawful Stupid asshats?

So, if seen in this light, Iomedae is acting, as written, exactly as one would expect. She really is the "paladin of paladins".

<smirk>


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Drock11 wrote:


Plus each time something like this happens it creates one data point in the canon that has to be considered each time a future product happens or even in the games we play. Does this mean somebody like Asmodeus could transport people that might not even worship him to his presence and hurt them when he feels like it or finds them unworthy?

Yikes. Good point. Now lets pick some gods that are really interested in creating some chaos and destruction, now that deific non-interference has gone out the window, and see what happens.

Let see what Book 6 brings - perhaps there will be some dire consequences for Iomedae for breaking the "Generally Accepted Practices for Gods." (though I doubt it). Maybe she will have to sacrifice herself to help close the Worldwound, thus paying the price for her interference. And whomever is her current Herald is gets a promotion.

Because we really don't want the gods snagging adventurers off the Prime whenever they want for whatever purposes, doesn't matter what the alignment or reason. Bad, bad precedent.

Hmnnn...


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Lord Snow wrote:

Other than the "evil" part, we find at offensive that Iomedae would punish any PC, at all, given that the PC didn't chose to come talk with her, is powerless compared to her, and has already proven himself so many times that doubting his integrity is absurd.

This. Lots of This.

We are entering into Book 5. The PC's have been working with Galfrey, Irabeth and other LG folks, whiile advancing the interests and fighting for the 5th Crusade for a while now - so, the Goddess decides NOW is a good time to see if they are committed to the cause? Really? I like to play my divine entities are just a wee bit smarter and wiser than that. Ok, a whole lot smarter and wiser than that. The PC's have the courage to brave the Midnight Isles and negotiate the challenges there (not to mention all the challenges of all the prior books), tell me, oh Goddess, what is better proof of the PC convictions? Their actions to date, or how they answer three questions in the "safety" of your heavenly cathedral? The answer, to any reasonable mortal, seems self evident.

As for the PC's needing Iomedae more than she needs them (post from above), I'd respectfully disagree. The encounter is a test, and one the PC's can fail. Failure would mean - no extra trinkets. Those artifacts will make the adventure path easier, but lacking them does NOT doom the endeavour to failure. The PC's can negotiate the challenges of Book 5 without them. Which means - the PC's don't need her and didn't need this encounter. She needs the PC's. She can help them. She chooses to apply some beat downs if displeased and withhold items that can help ensure success - it's illogical in the extreme, petulant and petty. She'd put the welfare of millions of mortal beings on Golarion in peril by withholding helpful items to heroes already doing their best to battle the Worldwound, just because the heroes fail to answer her loaded questions to her liking. Wow, just wow. Lawful Stupid at it's finest, folks.

There are some pretty excellent rewrites in this thread that can make this encounter go much better, and make Iomedae much more sympathetic to people. This is a rare miss in what is otherwise an excellent AP. The rest of Book 5 is great - but I really dislike the tone it starts with as written.


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Tels wrote:
Buri wrote:
That's how I build characters. I like diversity of ability rather than necessarily going after the most optimal combinations.

Yeah, I just got my first Mythic Tier ever in Legacy of Fire. My Monk uses acrobatics and jumps around like crazy all the time. I saw the Seven League Leap ability for the Champion and was like, "MUST HAVE!!!"

** spoiler omitted **

Then I was like... how to optimize...

I'm thinking, Impossible Speed (will net you an eventual +130 to your land speed), Display of Dexterity,...

I think if you get a vertical 51 miles up during your jump, we'd be seeing a corpse hitting the ground 102 miles away. Unless you had some magical help to prevent freezing/baking/suffocation on your trip into the mesosphere.

Assuming Golarion's atmosphere is anything like Earth's, of course ;-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nice catch, Tels and Ravingdork.

Given that James Jacobs posted a build himself with multiple Path Dabblings (a quick search for "path dabbling" will find it), I consider myself in good company. :-)

However, later posts he backtracked on that and confirmed, Path Dabbling is as you state - you can only do it once.

So, maybe not an "amazing" combo but certainly something worth considering when crafting a mythic build.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dual Path is a real winner. But don't take Guardian. Take the Trickster because...

PATH DABBLING.

This opens up ALL the mythic path abilities to you, I think. I consider Dual Path/Path Dabbling pretty much THE must have feat/ability combo.

In some cases, there is simply no other better route to take than the Trickster because of the power of path dabbling.

Unless I'm misreading/misconstruing something.


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I could see some groups easily annoyed by the "attitude" of Iomedae (especially if they aren't followers) and proceed to intentionally tank the last adventure in the series. Not unlike the "less than admirable elves" from Second Darkness. By the time I was finished reading that adventure path, I knew that my players would probably WANT a meteor to hit Kyonin. Frankly, I did. However, my avatar might be giving something away on that...

But, back to the point. Why wouldn't the PC's think:

"Hey, we're pretty epic. To the Abyss with these guys, lets go find another plane where we are more appreciated rather than stay and get smacked around by some goddess who thinks blasting us is somehow 'motivational'...". Leaving Galfrey and Golarion high and dry. Ultimately, not likely if everyone is really playing "Good" to the hilt, but how many groups have a Neutral or two in the mix that might take serious umbrage at Iomedae's attitude?

I'd either rewrite this or eliminate the encounter completely. Arnwyn, Pnakotus and magnuskn all make good points.


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Buy a couple of scrolls of Teleportation Circle (on the Summoner spell list as of 16th level - so, maybe a bit of a failure chance, but well within acceptable limits, I'd think).

You can move a lot of people with that spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No problems seeing the links here - they go to Google Docs.

Solid builds, I think, though I do like the Fortune Hex - just because you are guaranteed to boost your group, and via cackle, keep them boosted. Giving fellow PC's two rolls at something/take the best is a good recipe for really clobbering the opposition, in my experience.

I also like to position a witch for some Eldritch Heritage spells to round out the spell list. With an Endurance patron and Improved Eldritch Heritage you can add some really key spells (like Time Stop) to a witch that already has Miracle at 17th (which indirectly gives access to so many spells, it isn't even funny).

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