Explain this to me - Aasimar Kobold Alchemist


Advice


I am asking this out of curiosity rather than building one myself

In the last couple of weeks, across a few 1E forums, I have seen and read a lot of talk on the Vivisectionist-Beastmorph Natural Attacker Alchemist

One such build that keeps popping up is the Aasimar Kobold

I understand how that works:

Small Aasimar - Scion of Humanity - Racial Heritage (Kobold)

The intention is to get Wing attacks, and a Tail attack (Tail Terror)

I guess my question is why is this better than Racial Heritage Ratfolk because that way you can take a Tailblade without expending a feat


I think it's because Tailblade is an additional weapon you need to enhance.
Where Tail Terror can benefit from every abilities and items that boost natural attacks.


Still wrapping my mind around the whole idea of an Aasimar Kobold...


Well... When a "dragon" and a angelic bard love each other very much...


Cornebre wrote:

I think it's because Tailblade is an additional weapon you need to enhance.

Where Tail Terror can benefit from every abilities and items that boost natural attacks.

Per the tailblade's text, an amulet of mighty fists would already enhance a tailblade's attacks so long as the wielder counts as a ratfolk:

Tailblade wrote:
Ratfolk are considered proficient with such attacks and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade.

What I'm curious about is, where are you getting the tail?


blahpers wrote:
What I'm curious about is, where are you getting the tail?
D20 wrote:

Sidebar: Non-Human Aasimar

Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common. Aasimars of other races usually exemplify the ideals of beauty and skill as seen by their base race. For example, halfling aasimars are small, beautifully proportioned, and display exceptional grace. Half-orc aasimars are slightly larger and stronger than ordinary orcs, with tough skin and metallic claws and tusks—they are likely to be neutral rather than evil, but still display aggression and incredible combat prowess. Less common humanoids, such as lizardfolk, catfolk, tengus, and others, can also produce aasimars, though given these races’ exotic appearance, members of the more common races may have trouble telling such aasimars apart from their kin.

It should be noted that while any creature that breeds with a celestial may give birth to half-celestial offspring, only humanoids can give birth to aasimars. Thus, while it’s possible to encounter a half-celestial dragon, unicorn, or griffon, any children of such creatures would be either half-celestials or normal members of their race. (And just as often, these less conventional half-celestials are sterile.) When discussing half-celestials and aasimars, it’s important to distinguish them from both true celestials (angels, azatas, agathions, etc.) and simple celestial creatures (creatures with the celestial template, which are themselves denizens of the good-aligned Outer Planes but similar in many ways to their Material Plane counterparts). Most aasimars also have a difficult time getting people to grasp distinctions between celestial types, with common folk erroneously grouping all such beings together as “angels.”

Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic. Non-human aasimars do not possess any of the racial abilities of their base race. However, they are usually raised in the same cultural context as other members of their base race, and thus generally adopt the same fighting style as their peers, use the same types of weapons and armor, and study the same skills.

Then take Racial Heritage (Ratfolk)


Minigiant wrote:
blahpers wrote:
What I'm curious about is, where are you getting the tail?
D20 wrote:

Sidebar: Non-Human Aasimar

Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common. Aasimars of other races usually exemplify the ideals of beauty and skill as seen by their base race. For example, halfling aasimars are small, beautifully proportioned, and display exceptional grace. Half-orc aasimars are slightly larger and stronger than ordinary orcs, with tough skin and metallic claws and tusks—they are likely to be neutral rather than evil, but still display aggression and incredible combat prowess. Less common humanoids, such as lizardfolk, catfolk, tengus, and others, can also produce aasimars, though given these races’ exotic appearance, members of the more common races may have trouble telling such aasimars apart from their kin.

It should be noted that while any creature that breeds with a celestial may give birth to half-celestial offspring, only humanoids can give birth to aasimars. Thus, while it’s possible to encounter a half-celestial dragon, unicorn, or griffon, any children of such creatures would be either half-celestials or normal members of their race. (And just as often, these less conventional half-celestials are sterile.) When discussing half-celestials and aasimars, it’s important to distinguish them from both true celestials (angels, azatas, agathions, etc.) and simple celestial creatures (creatures with the celestial template, which are themselves denizens of the good-aligned Outer Planes but similar in many ways to their Material Plane counterparts). Most aasimars also have a difficult time getting people to grasp distinctions between celestial types, with common folk erroneously grouping all such beings together as “angels.”

Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic. Non-human aasimars do not possess any of the racial abilities of their base race. However, they are usually raised in the same cultural context as other members of their base race, and thus generally adopt the same fighting style as their peers, use the same types of weapons and armor, and study the same skills.

Then take Racial Heritage (Ratfolk)

Could you highlight the part that gives you a tail? Particularly given the last paragraph that basically says a ratfolk-aasimar is statistically indistinguishable from a "regular" aasimar apart from size?

All Racial Heritage does is say that you have the blood of another race in your veins and thus count as that race for prerequisites and such. It doesn't make you sprout additional functional appendages.


Assuming that a ratfolk's ideal of beauty includes a ratfolk-style tail, first paragraph, third sentence.

It's a feat for a 1d2 damage attack at -5 to hit. Closely equivalent to a fighter's advanced armor training steel headbutt, which they can get for a feat also.


If you are looking to go Beastmorph/Vivisectionist...

Be a Ratfolk with the Swarming racial feature, get a tumor familiar with the Mauler archetype, and grab the Scurring Swarmer feat.

That's the best size small Beastmorph/Vivisectionist build I have seen pop up recently.

Shadow Lodge

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avr wrote:
Assuming that a ratfolk's ideal of beauty includes a ratfolk-style tail, first paragraph, third sentence.

And then this line.

Less common humanoids, such as lizardfolk, catfolk, tengus, and others, can also produce aasimars, though given these races’ exotic appearance, members of the more common races may have trouble telling such aasimars apart from their kin.

If they don't look like their patent race that line wouldnt exist.


Sounds like we have a bit of a contradiction in the rules, then. They're stated to be no different from human aasimar apart form size, and yet that's clearly not the case.

Shadow Lodge

No we don't.

Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic.


A tail is not purely cosmetic, though. It has mechanical effects--in this case, having a tail makes or breaks an ability.

Shadow Lodge

Having a tail is cosmetic. You have one. You take a feat to make it do something. That does not mean you suddenly do not have a tail. Kobolds have tails. Does taking Tail Terror or putting on an attachment mean they don't suddenly have a tail? Because if it does for an Assimar born to Kobolds it should for Kobolds born to Kobolds too.


I agree with blahpers.

A human could take the feat tail terror. However, unless said human actually has a tail, the feat doesn't do anything for them. Aasimars are no different. Therefore, having or not having a tail isn't a cosmetic feature in the same way that having or not having arms isn't a cosmetic feature.


LordKailas wrote:

I agree with blahpers.

A human could take the feat tail terror. However, unless said human actually has a tail, the feat doesn't do anything for them. Aasimars are no different. Therefore, having or not having a tail isn't a cosmetic feature in the same way that having or not having arms isn't a cosmetic feature.

You mean a human with Racial Heritage (kobold), right?


In this same vane, how does an aasmiar's size, if there are small, not have mechanical effects? Are you still a medium creature but just look smaller? Or are you small in the mechanical sense with all the effects that entails?


Size does have mechanical effects. A halfling-aasimar is Small, with all that entails. That is the one exception to the "nonhuman-aasimar all have the same stats as human-aasimar", and it is explicitly spelled out. Unless I've misread something, I don't think anybody was arguing otherwise.


So... Question...
A kobold aasimar Can take Scion of Humanity?
And take bonus damage by a weapon that target human?
And THEN can take Racial Heritage(Kobold) to count as a Kobold shaped "technically tailless" kobold-human-outsider (native)?


Crazy, ain't it?

For what it's worth, if someone wanted to be a "kobold-aasimar" at my table, I'd just stat it up (complete with Scion of Koboldity) instead of following the ridiculous "just like human aasimar but Small" rules.


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blahpers wrote:
Cornebre wrote:

I think it's because Tailblade is an additional weapon you need to enhance.

Where Tail Terror can benefit from every abilities and items that boost natural attacks.

Per the tailblade's text, an amulet of mighty fists would already enhance a tailblade's attacks so long as the wielder counts as a ratfolk:

Tailblade wrote:
Ratfolk are considered proficient with such attacks and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade.
What I'm curious about is, where are you getting the tail?

According to the Blood of Angels Player Companion, it is possible for aasimars to have fox-like tails.

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