Yar.
Skill checks and Ability checks do not have the stipulation of Auto Success and Auto Failure on a natural 20 or natural 1.
Attacks and saving Throws do.
The important rule here is specific trumps general. Since attacks and saves have it specifically spelled out that you have auto-success and auto-fails on 20's and 1's, you can assume that anything and everything else that relies on a d20 role that does not have this stipulation written in does not have a chance to auto-succeed or auto-fail.
And for skills and ability checks it makes sense. Sometimes you simply aren't good enough to do something, and sometimes you are so good that you can't fail without something distracting you (a.k.a. penalties to the check and/or higher DCs)
~P
IIRC and I can't find a citation right this second, but skill checks (and hence ability checks which are effectively unskilled skill checks) do not auto-fail or auto-succeed on a 1 or 20.
One other specific is Constitution checks to stabilize and regain consciousness auto-succeed on a 20.
Allowing skill checks and ability checks to auto-succeed or auto-fail means that 5% of the time, your average person could jump to the moon, and 5% of the time, the world's strongest man can't pick up a pencil.
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Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?
No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
Hm. What about shooting the moon?
I don't mean to be facetious, I'm really just wondering if there is anything reigning in ranged attacks from being 5% accurate at any range.
Yar.
Hm. What about shooting the moon?
I don't mean to be facetious, I'm really just wondering if there is anything reigning in ranged attacks from being 5% accurate at any range.
Yes. CRB page 182. Ranged Attacks.
The maximum range for a thrown weapon is five range increments. For projectile weapons, it is 10 range increments.
~P
Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
Hm. What about shooting the moon?
I don't mean to be facetious, I'm really just wondering if there is anything reigning in ranged attacks from being 5% accurate at any range.
Max 10 increments on ranged attacks tends to limit the maximum range. Yes it's a bit weird to have at least 5% chance of hitting a person at 1100' with a composite longbow regardless of skill but that's more of a function of bad range increments.
It's always been ridiculous to me that no matter how well-armored and highly skilled a knight is, there's always a 5% chance that some farmer with a pitchfork can hit him.
I could accept something like a one-in-a-million chance, but not one in twenty.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
You do, however, have a 1-in-20 chance of punching Zeus.
You do, however, have a 1-in-20 chance of punching Zeus.You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
To be fair, not really. You have a 1-in-20 chance of putting your fist in the same place as Zeus's body assuming Zeus chooses to stand in front of you without any sort of concealment or other protective effect.
And then, since Zeus almost certainly has Epic damage reduction, you have a 100% chance of your hand bouncing off his body like it's a wall.
Yar.
You do, however, have a 1-in-20 chance of punching Zeus.
Please don't punch my friends dog. That's rude.
~P
You do, however, have a 1-in-20 chance of punching Zeus.
Yes, if Zeus allows you to get within punching range and allows you to punch him, you have a 1 in 20 chance of hitting him. You don't have a 1 in 20 chance of hurting him, though.
And, if it helps put things into perspective, Zeus does NOT have a 5% chance of missing you.
And, if it helps put things into perspective, Zeus does NOT have a 5% chance of missing you.
Why not? Do gods get a pass on auto-miss?
And, if it helps put things into perspective, Zeus does NOT have a 5% chance of missing you.Why not? Do gods get a pass on auto-miss?
Actually, according to the relevant 3.x sourcebook (Deities & Demigods?), they do. IIRC, Divine rank 0 grants you the ability to never auto-fail.
Actually as a greater god Zeus always assumes that he got a 20 on the result. You still roll the dice to check for crits and natural auto-hits but he always hits if it's possible for him to hit.
I know this isn't RAW but my group allows a +10/-10 variant that was listed in the 3.5 rules.
On Skill checks if you roll a 20 basically treat it as a 30 to start and then add any more modifiers. On a 1 treat as a -9 to start and add modifiers. This way its still not an auto fail/success but it still makes simple toons be able to do something extraordinary sometimes and godlike toons still possibly slip and fall while walking on marbles. You could also maybe sneak past that dragon at level 1 if you happened to roll 20 and he rolled 1. Still not very likely.
I've gone over this before with concrete rules like acrobatics. With the ninja playtest it can get even stupider.
Level 11 ninja halves DCs for jump checks. Has a +20 acrobatics. Gets hasted and has a +32. Wears a ring of jumping, improved for another +10 for +42. Has a 9th level caster cast Jump on them for +30 for +72. Rolls a 20 and gets +30 for +102.
So, +20 natural, +32 racial, +10 competence, +30 enhancement, +30 dice.
Technically the ninja can long jump a 200 foot jump now. He can only long jump this if he takes the run action. One of the first times I've seen that rule (cannot jump farther than you can move) come into play.
Radical. I love +10/-10.
It's always been ridiculous to me that no matter how well-armored and highly skilled a knight is, there's always a 5% chance that some farmer with a pitchfork can hit him.
I could accept something like a one-in-a-million chance, but not one in twenty.
Yeah. It's luck.
The farmer runs up and attacks him. If the farmer has a +1 to attack and he's using a military pitchfork, he has a +1. If he's using a farm pitchfork, it's a -3.
So, the knight has full plate on for +9 making it 19. The knight is impervious to the fighter from just that alone.
But, there is an eye slot, he can hit the knight, he can slip the pitchfork in a gap accidentally. There's a lot that could happen.
Just because you put on magical full plate doesn't mean you're a god.
]I've gone over this before with concrete rules like acrobatics. With the ninja playtest it can get even stupider.
Level 11 ninja halves DCs for jump checks. Has a +20 acrobatics. Gets hasted and has a +32. Wears a ring of jumping, improved for another +10 for +42. Has a 9th level caster cast Jump on them for +30 for +72. Rolls a 20 and gets +30 for +102.
So, +20 natural, +32 racial, +10 competence, +30 enhancement, +30 dice.
Technically the ninja can long jump a 200 foot jump now. He can only long jump this if he takes the run action. One of the first times I've seen that rule (cannot jump farther than you can move) come into play.
Radical. I love +10/-10.
You can totally jump further than you can move, it just takes more than one round to do it. If a Ninja with a 50 ft move jumps 200 ft., the way I read it, he can take 4 rounds to do it and still take a standard action, like throwing shurikens, each round mid-air.
The +10/-10 doesn't really make it the whole jumping issue for the ninja that much better/bad tho it's the stacking of the spells that makes it stupid.
Also you would have to look at the base speed of the ninja. Haste would allow him to move at least 90 feet (base30, adds30 and 30 for standard action) and X4 for running is 360 so he could still run much further than jump in your scenario.
That's entirely not how movement works. If your base speed was 30ft. haste would double that to 60ft. Your move speed is now 60ft. for all purposes. Your double move(move+standard) would then be 120ft. and your run (move x4) would be 240ft.
It's always been ridiculous to me that no matter how well-armored and highly skilled a knight is, there's always a 5% chance that some farmer with a pitchfork can hit him.
I could accept something like a one-in-a-million chance, but not one in twenty.
Actually, a one-in-twenty chance sounds right to me. Knights aren't gods. They're people. History is rife with the powerful and elite being taken down by commoners.
There's a reason phrases like "lucky shot," "beginner's luck," and the like are so prevalent in our vernacular. And it's not because somebody got off a one-in-a-million. It's because these things are likely enough that we've all witnessed them from time to time. And anyway, how do you roll for a one-in-a-million chance? To the game, that would be the same as "impossible."
Nobody's gonna tell 1st level David that he can't get a crit on 20th level Goliath and take him down. It would remove one of the best, most dramatic parts of the game.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I know that attack rolls and saving throws have an automatic success when you roll a natural 20 and an automatic failure when you roll a natural 1.
Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?
Attacks, Combat Maneuver Checks and Saves are the only autofails/autohits.
I know this isn't RAW but my group allows a +10/-10 variant that was listed in the 3.5 rules.
On Skill checks if you roll a 20 basically treat it as a 30 to start and then add any more modifiers. On a 1 treat as a -9 to start and add modifiers. This way its still not an auto fail/success but it still makes simple toons be able to do something extraordinary sometimes and godlike toons still possibly slip and fall while walking on marbles. You could also maybe sneak past that dragon at level 1 if you happened to roll 20 and he rolled 1. Still not very likely.
I've gone over this before with concrete rules like acrobatics. With the ninja playtest it can get even stupider.
Level 11 ninja halves DCs for jump checks. Has a +20 acrobatics. Gets hasted and has a +32. Wears a ring of jumping, improved for another +10 for +42. Has a 9th level caster cast Jump on them for +30 for +72. Rolls a 20 and gets +30 for +102.
So, +20 natural, +32 racial, +10 competence, +30 enhancement, +30 dice.
Technically the ninja can long jump a 200 foot jump now. He can only long jump this if he takes the run action. One of the first times I've seen that rule (cannot jump farther than you can move) come into play.
Radical. I love +10/-10.
The +10/-10 doesn't really make it the whole jumping issue for the ninja that much better/bad tho it's the stacking of the spells that makes it stupid.
Also you would have to look at the base speed of the ninja. Haste would allow him to move at least 90 feet (base30, adds30 and 30 for standard action) and X4 for running is 360 so he could still run much further than jump in your scenario.
It helps, it helps!
Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
It's only DC of about 1 billion actually to jump over the moon.
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It's only DC of about 1 billion actually to jump over the moon.Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
For a High jump over the moon would be a DC of 5,090,285,376
Since the moon is 238,857 miles away and has a diameter of 2159.3 miles and the DC for a High jump is (feet * 4)
Note, on the way back down you would only take 20d6 damage for falling 1,272,571,344 feet, so go for it!
BTW, that is either one dexterous cow, or it has a lot of skill points!
It's only DC of about 1 billion actually to jump over the moon.Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
Well, let's see.
Assuming the moon is directly overhead, it's about 250,000 miles from the Earth to the Moon. That's 1.32 billion feet. The DC for high jumps is 4xdistance which would put the DC at about 5.3 billion.You could factor in the diameter of the moon (about 3500 km) but that would have even less impact on the result than if you factored in the moons elliptical orbit.
It's only DC of about 1 billion actually to jump over the moon.Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
For a long jump over the moon would be a DC of 5,090,285,376
Since the moon is 238,857 miles away and has a diameter of 2159.3 miles and the DC for a High jump is (feet * 4)
Note, on the way back down you would only take 20d6 damage for falling 1,272,571,344 feet, so go for it!
BTW, that is either one dexterous cow, or it has a lot of skill points!
Long jump is DC = feet, high jump is feet*4. So you just need to run up a half-pipe at the start of the jump to get to make it qualify as long jump, which is about DC 1 billion.
The damage is capped at 20d6 because you'll reach terminal velocity.
You can decrease the DC by 20. He only has to get close enough to the moon to catch it with his hands.
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Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
Hm. What about shooting the moon?
I don't mean to be facetious, I'm really just wondering if there is anything reigning in ranged attacks from being 5% accurate at any range.
Just thought of something, you have a 1-in-20 chance of missing the earth you are standing on if you shoot at it? o.O
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No you always hit an unattended object.
Just thought of something, you have a 1-in-20 chance of missing the earth you are standing on if you shoot at it? o.O
Nope.
Armor Class: Objects are easier to hit than creatures because they don't usually move, but many are tough enough to shrug off some damage from each blow. An object's Armor Class is equal to 10 + its size modifier (see Table: Size and Armor Class of Objects) + its Dexterity modifier. An inanimate object has not only a Dexterity of 0 (–5 penalty to AC), but also an additional –2 penalty to its AC. Furthermore, if you take a full-round action to line up a shot, you get an automatic hit with a melee weapon and a +5 bonus on attack rolls with a ranged weapon.
So, you can auto hit with a melee weapon, if you take a full round action to line up a shot, but with a ranged weapon, you have a 5% chance to miss the earth.
Ok fine another reason that while for most situations the RAW work but in very specific situaitions its up to the players to use logic and real reasoning to adjust the rules where they need to be adjusted. The Earth size modifier to AC is prolly also like -100000000 so now the earth has a negative AC.No you always hit an unattended object.
Just thought of something, you have a 1-in-20 chance of missing the earth you are standing on if you shoot at it? o.ONope.
Armor Class: Objects are easier to hit than creatures because they don't usually move, but many are tough enough to shrug off some damage from each blow. An object's Armor Class is equal to 10 + its size modifier (see Table: Size and Armor Class of Objects) + its Dexterity modifier. An inanimate object has not only a Dexterity of 0 (–5 penalty to AC), but also an additional –2 penalty to its AC. Furthermore, if you take a full-round action to line up a shot, you get an automatic hit with a melee weapon and a +5 bonus on attack rolls with a ranged weapon.So, you can auto hit with a melee weapon, if you take a full round action to line up a shot, but with a ranged weapon, you have a 5% chance to miss the earth.
The AC doesn't matter, you'll still have 5% chance to miss.
No you always hit an unattended object.
How is the earth an unattended object? I mean there's like 6.9 billion people in contact with it.
Physics update: actual DC to jump to the moon is only around 71,000. Having done the calculation, the terms resulting from moon's gravity are sufficiently small to simply approximate it as escape velocity.
Edit: forgot to convert kph to mps in calc
>> BTW, that is either one dexterous cow
So, lets say I roll a 20, and I have no ranks in Acrobatics. What would the cow's dex need to be to have a dex mod high enough to make a DC of 5,090,285,376?
>> BTW, that is either one dexterous cowSo, lets say I roll a 20, and I have no ranks in Acrobatics. What would the cow's dex need to be to have a dex mod high enough to make a DC of 5,090,285,376?
Mod is (Stat-10)/2, so we're looking for (Stat-10)/2 = 5090285376 - 20
Stat - 10 = 5090285356 * 2
Stat - 10 = 10180570712
Stat = 10,180,570,722
Stat = 10,180,570,722
Which is the average of 2908734492 d6. That's a hell of a point buy.
Since the moon's pull affects the oceans here on earth, I assume that the moon has reach.
Would the moon get an AoO on the cow? Cow better have some ranks in tumble.
Stat = 10,180,570,722
Which is the average of 2908734492 d6. That's a hell of a point buy.
Since the moon's pull affects the oceans here on earth, I assume that the moon has reach.
Would the moon get an AoO on the cow? Cow better have some ranks in tumble.
If you want to pull out physics, then assuming that the moon has a slam attack then it would deal about 120 billion damage plus it's strength modifier.
Stat = 10,180,570,722
Which is the average of 2908734492 d6. That's a hell of a point buy.
Since the moon's pull affects the oceans here on earth, I assume that the moon has reach.
Would the moon get an AoO on the cow? Cow better have some ranks in tumble.
isn't ranks in Acrobatics the same thing?
thusly said Cow would probably always evade the AoO's (It probably has Mobility and spring attack too)unless of course this is under the assumption that some crazy fast cow just decided to jump (at which point it can do the tumble un-trained, and reach the same point), but since it's an Animal, it gets what? 3 skill points per HD?
Stat = 10,180,570,722
Which is the average of 2908734492 d6. That's a hell of a point buy.
Since the moon's pull affects the oceans here on earth, I assume that the moon has reach.
Would the moon get an AoO on the cow? Cow better have some ranks in tumble.
isn't ranks in Acrobatics the same thing?
thusly said Cow would probably always evade the AoO's (It probably has Mobility and spring attack too)
unless of course this is under the assumption that some crazy fast cow just decided to jump (at which point it can do the tumble un-trained, and reach the same point), but since it's an Animal, it gets what? 3 skill points per HD?
The DC for tumble is your opponent's CMD. The Moon's size bonus alone would easily put the DC in the thousands.
The DC for tumble is your opponent's CMD. The Moon's size bonus alone would easily put the DC in the thousands.Stat = 10,180,570,722
Which is the average of 2908734492 d6. That's a hell of a point buy.
Since the moon's pull affects the oceans here on earth, I assume that the moon has reach.
Would the moon get an AoO on the cow? Cow better have some ranks in tumble.
isn't ranks in Acrobatics the same thing?
thusly said Cow would probably always evade the AoO's (It probably has Mobility and spring attack too)
unless of course this is under the assumption that some crazy fast cow just decided to jump (at which point it can do the tumble un-trained, and reach the same point), but since it's an Animal, it gets what? 3 skill points per HD?
well, that'd be easy for miss Cow here, with her 10billion+ Dexterity.
I mean, at the lowest (-10 for a 1) she'd have over 5billion in her check.
O.o
what the hell would her AC be?
Does the automatic success/failure roll also apply to ability checks?No, nor does it apply to skill checks.
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to bust open the vault door to a bank (Strength check DC 1000).
You don't have a 1-in-20 chance to jump over the moon (Acrobatics DC 1 zillion).
Since they've had a field day with the Acrobatics DC, why not look at the Strength DC for a bank vault?
Pushing the earth ala Superman (Our Worlds at War) requires a Strength score of 399. That provides a Drag weight (x5 max load) equal to the mass of the earth.
That is a Strength modifier of +194. Strength feats that require sunboosted Superman level strength should be set at DC 204 to reflect taking 10.
Tearing open a bank vault seems it would be much lower than pushing the earth. Much like an elephant is smaller than the moon.
Taking a look at common break DCs, a three foot thick stone wall is DC 50 to break. An 2 inch iron door is DC 28. A masonry wall is DC 35. I'd estimate an iron bank vault's door at DC 40 to break. If 40, then the absolute minimum Str required for the feat is 50. (+20 Str modifier rolling a 20 on the d20)