Pathfinder Battles Preview: Behold the Black Arrows!

Nobody picked up on the real problem with this post:

A friend and I bought a bunch of singles from Heroes & Monsters on the after-market, and 5 of them showed up broken. We've both been buying DDM since Harbinger. Over the grand total of DDM purchased - for both of us combined - we had 3 broken ones. Over half the minis purchased (DDM & Pathfinder) came from the same vendor, so their shipping and handling practices aren't the issue.

I hope this isn't going to be an on-going problem with the PF minis. Aside from that, I love them. Just thought Paizo should be made aware.

The Pathfinder minis are less bendable than DDMs to be sure, but the fact that the Kaven paint master broke actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the final minis, as the early outputs we use to create the paint masters are made of a completely different (and much much much more brittle) material than the final production run miniatures.

We're keeping an eye on the plastic rigidity for the production runs, and it may be that we need to alter the balance to make them more durable, but please do not correlate the two, because they are completely different things.

If the actual minis were made the the stuff the paint masters are made of, every single miniature ever would arrive broken, and you guys would have burned down the Paizo offices a long time ago.

My turn. I understand about the situation with the broken sword from a paint master. Like others I too have concerns about the plastic. I sincerely hope the issue with brittle plastic in Heroes and Monsters are corrected with RotR. DDMs were too bendy. But I rarely worried about breakage. It would be revolutionary to the hobby to find a grade of plastic that was firm without being brittle. I would prefer a bendy sword to a broken one.

I'm on it. I'd like to see a little more "give" with the minis, provided we don't have to trade off too much in terms of the sculpt quality. I'm discussing this with our partners at WizKids, and we're working on getting the balance exactly right.

Please note that this may take us a set or two, but I am working diligently on it as we speak!

Of course this could just be older packaging (predating the cut of 2 huges from the set) so this could be one of the 2 mystery cut minis, yeah sure. Very tricksy Eric Mona, very tricksy. So looks like th e white was cut (costly? must be a good dragon) and I think we'll see that white dragon in a later release... Makes me wonder what the other cut hiuge was, there aren';t that many in the original pathway

The news is out, and I'm afraid this is my biggest personal disappointment of the set so far. The Huge White Dragon, one of the very first miniatures I spoiled as being part of this set, has unfortunately been cut from the set by WizKids due to cost issues.

The White Dragon WILL appear in a future release, and I have reason to believe that may be sooner rather than later, but when WizKids told us we needed to cut from seven to four Huges, we had to make some grim sacrifices, and the Huge White Dragon was the most difficult of all.

Basically, we had to look at the sculpts we'd approved and decide which ones would work as part of future sets or independent releases, and which ones wouldn't. The White Dragon, obviously, isn't tied directly to the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path in the same was as the Lamia Harridan or the Karzoug Statue, so we're holding it for later release.

I promise that the Karzoug Statue (really a Huge Stone Golem) is a _fantastic_ miniature both in terms of sculpt and paint job. It's not a dragon, but I think people will really like it, and it's definitely one of the key encounters of the entire Adventure Path.

So yeah, the bad news is that the Huge White Dragon will NOT be a part of the Rise of the Runelords set. But the sculpt looks amazing, and we WILL be releasing it soon in another format.

I'd hoped to preview the Karzoug Statue mini before the packaging went live on paizo.com, but in this case unfortunately we didn't have all our ducks in a row, so the news had to break in this fashion.

Given that, look forward to a MUCH closer look at the Karzoug Statue mini next week, and look for more details on the White Dragon in the weeks to come.

The dragon is not forgotten, and will make its way to you soon, I promise.

Lots of good guesses here, but I can say there are definitely a couple that no one has mentioned yet.

There are also a couple that people HAVE mentioned that WON'T be in this set, but which WILL be in the next set.

Muhahahaha.

Lots of good guesses here, but I can say there are definitely a couple that no one has mentioned yet.

There are also a couple that people HAVE mentioned that WON'T be in this set, but which WILL be in the next set.

Muhahahaha.

I know it's too early to have anything set in stone, however do you have any ideas as to frequency?

The gap between H&M and RoTRL was eight monthsish, but I heard rumor that 3 sets per year was the goal. Any chance the third set may be released by December/January? Is any view forming as to what frequency would be ideal?

The White Dragon WILL appear in a future release, and I have reason to believe that may be sooner rather than later...

...I promise that the Karzoug Statue (really a Huge Stone Golem) is a _fantastic_ miniature both in terms of sculpt and paint job...

...I'd hoped to preview the Karzoug Statue mini before the packaging went live on paizo.com, but in this case unfortunately we didn't have all our ducks in a row, so the news had to break in this fashion.

Given that, look forward to a MUCH closer...

Dissapointed at no white? Hmm maybe but we get a cool greater stone golem, albeit one that looks like Kourzag, so no I'm not dissapointed, i'm excited. As for the "soon in another format", can we encourage you for more detail? Unlikely I know but...

As for the guesses I'm intregued - I picked through the original quite closely and thought I had the bases covered. Seems you are more tricksy than I thought, but please don't let the hound of tindalso be in the next set, I really want it to be in this one. And a really cool paizo sculpt. lovecraft minis are much needed, not to harp oin a point at all, but the denizens of leng (yay) and the hounds played a role in this path more than others.

If the sets are likely to go 3/year will they be 60 or 40 mini sets, just to get a handle on the price.

ALso is there a chance of getting pics of the rune giant from more angles?

Really impressed with the line-up so far (apart from maybe way too many giants). But those humanoids may have convinced me to torture my wallet and order a case...
One can never have too many humanoids and the ones in this set are probably the finest PPP minis that have come out in years.

Yay Paizo!

With a repaint Jakardros could be This guy

Would that mean one of the blonde Iconics with daddy issues would turn traitor?

Old school teen titans reference.

That would be Terra-ble.

Anguish wrote:

Thehigher cause wrote:

I agree 100%. If would prefer more monster, less humanoids. Also more monsters Pathfinder specific, not done in other lines.

Meh. I'm going to register the opposite vote.

I only tend to use a monster once unless it's a wolf/orc/ogre type iconic monster. I don't need the freak of the week. I've got dozens of those.

On the other hand, I don't like to hear "wasn't that the bartender from the last town?" when re-using a mini for a bandit or major NPC. More, more, more of what gets encountered; people.

+1

I can reuse the same monster over and over. They aren't usually memorable. NPCs on the other hand get retired after being used as a PC or major NPC because they get associated with that character.

I just wish they weren't doing a second bow-user and 2 TWF. I like variety.

I want more types of monsters. I only need ten or so humanoids to represent any given humanoid, but there's only so many times I can let the same mini stand in for "large quadrapedal creature" before they start to blend together. I love the idea of putting a set together based on an adventure supplement. I adore the idea of smaller packs of specific minis, bundled with a small module that uses those creatures.

That's in the works, right? That's why so many goblin sculpts, so that the goblin module can come packaged with all the minis except the PCs? I'm not even sure what the price point should be...

Guys, as long as these miniatures are based on Adventure Paths, we're going to pick the appropriate creatures to run the campaign, whether they're humanoids OR monsters.

I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures.

So noted.

Myself, I like about a 50/50 split. For DM's who collect/buy these, I can understand the desire to have monsters. As a player though, I much prefer ample choices of PC's for me to select my character from -- as do the other people I play with. As a DM, I like the ability to put down a bunch of NPC's that do not all look alike, and somewhat resemble the NPC I want them to represent.

While I am sorry to see that the Huge White won't make it, it is also a mini which would be quite easy to release on its own. Perhaps it could star as the main villain in the next Encounter Pack even?

Otherwise, put me in the camp of those who like to see a healthy dose of humanoids in sets. Monsters are great, to be sure, but more often than not they fall in a relatively small CR niche where they can be used. Humanoids, on the other hand, can be adjusted easily thanks to the presence or lack of class levels. Also, I like a broad selection to choose from, both for NPCs and PCs.

I don't plan on running RotRL at this point, so I am not doing to dish out the $500 to buy a case, but I do plan on buying many singles when it comes out. Humanoids will probably be the largest component of that buy, because they are the most flexible.

Now Erik, you have given a few hints that reefclaws might be in the next set. Which raises the question of what the name of the set will be. I don't suppose it would rhyme with Dull & Cackles now, would it? If so, that would be great. Not simply because that is the AP I plan on running next, but because DDM never made a lot of aquatic monsters, and a set containing a lot of aquatic foes would appeal to long time collecters and plastic newbies like myself.

Whatever may come, thank you for taking the lead from WotC. In more ways than one, in fact. I am a new Paizo customer, and continue to be impressed by everything I see and hear about Paizo as time goes on.

I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures.

But there are also a lot of other people who do...

Sadly my PC miniature needs were not met by Merisel, Ezren, Valeros & Kyra. Until we have a reasonable mix of race, class & gender minis suitable for PCs then I say bring them on!

Now Erik, you have given a few hints that reefclaws might be in the next set.

I have?

It's a shame that the white dragon isn't in...statue looks pretty good on the package though :) still I'm curious how paizo n wiz kids are going to top the huge black dragon. That's a heck of a dragon mini to try to outdo!

DonalGraeme wrote:

Now Erik, you have given a few hints that reefclaws might be in the next set.

I have?

Definitely need a reefclaw. When I ran Black Fang's Dungeon, it's the only mini that wasn't in the Heroes & Monsters set.

It's sad, I can't afford to by the subscription case for this set, but I'm definitely buying minis from it!

DonalGraeme wrote:

Now Erik, you have given a few hints that reefclaws might be in the next set.

I have?

Perhaps I should have chosen my wording more carefully. Let me try again:

Now Erik, you have indicated (both here and on the Plasticrypt forum) some folks have made accurate guesses about what will be in the next set, and reefclaws happen to be among those people have guessed/wished for the next set.

That work better?

I hope Skull and Shackles is not next. They need to do the other AP's before the newest one IMO.

Though I'm rooting for monsters as much as the next mini collector, I LOVE miniatures that represent specific NPCs from the AP. As someone whose ran this once and is currently planning on getting the re-release once its out, I prefer being able to get these kind of minis rather than either having to get, assemble, and paint the Reaper mini (if it exists) or mod an existing D+D mini. I hope you guys keep doing this with future minis sets.
Now, to cross fingers for a Champion of Greed mini. Seriously, out of all the D+D and other minis I know of out there, (and I have extensive knowledge) THERE ISN'T A SINGLE LARGE SIZED FEMALE MINI! Even if its not in this set, please make this happen. I've played with plenty of female players, many of whom play fighter types. What to do if they enlarge themselves....

PLEASE do not make big decisions based on feedback unless it's from a large sample size.

I have thousands of DDM, bought from the first set to the last. One thing I really like about the Pathfinder Minis is the more rigid plastic. I have so many goofy bendy DDMs that I spend so much time heating and cooling, never getting back into a good shape. I would much much much rather have the occasional broken sword than 100% chance of curved bendy ones.

Lots of good guesses here, but I can say there are definitely a couple that no one has mentioned yet.

There are also a couple that people HAVE mentioned that WON'T be in this set, but which WILL be in the next set.

Muhahahaha.

Okay for those not mentioned I would say Sheriff Hemlock (on my realy want list), Sandpoint Devil, Attic Whisperer maybe Boggard and a clear plastic ghost of some kind... lamia cleric, Clockwork Librarian, some giant (ice, hill zombie,runeslave Marsh dont know),Shining Child, Totenmaske, Smoke Haunt,Skul Ripper, Stone Golem, Black Monk mummy, Yethazmari, Witchfire, ice devil end thats all. Think I named every thing that could possibly make it in the final spot.

Eee! I love these three! The Black Arrow characters instantly appealed to me in RotRL, and it's great to see them here in mini form. Something about the world-weary commander, the good-natured big bruiser, and the smooth guy out to save his own neck is just so classic, I couldn't resist them. Totally buying these dudes when possible. I love the idea of having figures for an entire AP. I hope one day to have more dolls to play with figures to collect from my favorite AP, Kingmaker, as well.

Kaven Windstrike: I KNOW I cant be the only person who's initial reaction to the picture was "Its Han Solo!!".
I LOVE this miniature. My friends and I are starting a new campain in a few months and one of us wants to be a Swashbuckler. Im sure I just found his mini. Thank you. :)

I thought, "Han Solo!" too! :)

Jakardros: does he play a larger role in the adventure now?

Like many characters in RotR, the scope of his role (and most of the other Black Arrows) will vary dramatically based on GM and PC choices. In my own campaign, he allied with the party for several adventures.

PLEASE do not make big decisions based on feedback unless it's from a large sample size.

I have thousands of DDM, bought from the first set to the last. One thing I really like about the Pathfinder Minis is the more rigid plastic. I have so many goofy bendy DDMs that I spend so much time heating and cooling, never getting back into a good shape. I would much much much rather have the occasional broken sword than 100% chance of curved bendy ones.

There are complaints about both conditions. But the prime issue is transportation. You can manage if the mini is bent when you show up to play at your FLGS. If it is broken, that is more difficult. No doubt that neither condition is good. But to break a mini with casual handling in the middle of a session is a bummer. IMHO and in the opinion of many others that have posted on this board and other boards the brittle plastic is an issue for Wizkids and Paizo.

There are many types of plastic out there. I am hopeful that a type can be found that is firm without being brittle. It would be good for Wizkids too. I am sure it is a nightmare having to replace broken minis found in boosters.

Later,

Mazra