Monster Mashup - Master Thread

Game Master CaveToad

FAQ'd, yes. :) They just made it a flat standard -and- if it takes longer than a standard, you can't do it. It was FAQ'd before I ever even saw it, in fact. :) It's just that when I read it, I understood the ability to use the swift action to enable the casting. Not 'swift action: Major Creation!'.

Cool, thanks for the clarification, it makes a lot more sense (and that was what it seemed like it was intended to be).

Thunderbeard: The part that is confusing me about the grapple is this:

"If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails)."

Oh! Then you pull it close to you. Neat.

You can switch out the starting feat, but not select level up feats unless you have the beast-bonded archtype. Though I still wonder how you get it given it doesn't qualify for sympathic rage? Sadly raging song doesn't actually work with amplified rage since it isn't actually rage. .

given this sentence I'd argue otherwise

I'm working on fixing my character, and I'm swapping out eldritch heritage and amplified rage for some other feats because I missed that I needed to be level 3 to take it whoops

"Bloodrage counts as the barbarian's rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects."

Raging Song has no such sentence; and they're from the same book. Also note that Raging Song doesn't allow them to use their own rage powers, etc.

I've seen several threads about it and most rule that it does work, but I haven't found an official ruling so I guess the DM would have to decide on that

Xanya Zellor wrote:

You can switch out the starting feat, but not select level up feats unless you have the beast-bonded archtype. Though I still wonder how you get it given it doesn't qualify for sympathic rage? Sadly raging song doesn't actually work with amplified rage since it isn't actually rage. .

given this sentence I'd argue otherwise

But I guess it's up to the DM
If an ally has her own rage class ability (such as barbarian's rage, bloodrager's bloodrage, or skald's inspired rage), she may use the Strength, Constitution, and Will saving throw bonuses, as well as AC penalties, based on her own ability and level instead of those from the skald (still suffering no fatigue afterward).

I'm working on fixing my character, and I'm swapping out eldritch heritage and amplified rage for some other feats because I missed that I needed to be level 3 to take it whoops

Given that the 7th table started already you will probably have to wait for someone dropping out before you can join now.

Meh, it'll probably happen eventually or someone will die or something
If not I had fun anyway so it's still fine

Guess I took too long to get the fluff of my character down... but I do have them complete now. Arcantos Rouqar over at mythweavers (for now), with his backstory down at the bottom under 'Other Notes'. Honestly hoping the fact his mechanics was completed a while ago is enough to get me in a bit sooner... but well, I'm not exactly expecting that to happen.

Katana expertise is one die step not one size category. Should be 1d10 damage.

Becoming the leader of a thieves' guild in a city at level 1 seems improbable. I would recommend changing that aspect as it doesn't make sense, and doesn't seem critical for your story. You have a bunch of PoW classes thrown together for optimization ( ok so most people are optimized to some extent ), but you don't explain why you are a bushi or vigilante or warlord or vanguard commander ..... is your backstory even for that character? You talk of being a boy, but mention nothing about being a catfolk other than having the awesome stats and abilities.

Not necessarily meaning to rip you apart at all, plenty of other characters have little to no backstory at all, so at least you tried, but it struck me as funny.

... Honestly, your backstory has left me with a bit of a problem CT. After all, the wizard's main mission, or main experiment is 'He would rescue and convert members of evil races, raising them to be just and true, or at least not evil and debased, to show that anyone can be heroic.' But... your letting people play as Catfolks and Kitsunes... which have no evil qualities whatsoever.

Hence the problem. I want to play as a Catfolk for this campaign, but I need someone who was rather evil before our wizard came along. Which was why I admittedly made him something that seems quite implausible, becoming the leader of an entire city state at level one.

Course my reasoning is that 10k years ago civilization was so bad that in game terms even the best soliders and leaders would of been only level 1 NPC classes... a reasoning I completely made up from the top of my head admittedly.

As for the difference of the classes and backstory? Well, Vigilante is explain by his past as a smart rogue-like character, and he isn't just letting that go. Warlord goes alongside bard with the entire inspiration theme, and Vanguard Commander relates to his new desire to fight alongside and with other people, but on the front-lines in front of them himself. Bushi... eastern themed city state.

So yeah... I admit its not the best history... but it is actually better than it looks on first glance.

Also, I am going for theme over optimization here you know. I put the two PoW classes together not for optimization purposes, but because they fit the character I want to make.

Actually, it depends on the setup. If you check my character you'll see that it is entirely possible for the bent towards trickery and control of others to be something that needs to be overcome.

You can likewise create negative attributes that your catfolk is trying to overcome. Certainly, you can just write off that they aren't 'normally evil', but then you run into the problem that many many more exist that aren't innately evil, but instead may be easily misunderstood. Merfolk and Kitsune are easy to give an 'evil' bent, and they're widely distrusted. Wayangs and Catfolk less so... they simply 'are'. Though Catfolk are also regarded in Golarion as troublemakers, if I'm not mistaken.

Currently:
Kitsune ruled over a small tribe using trickery, enchantment, superstitions, and faith.
Kitsune was the son of a man who abused his Kitsune powers to rule an entire kingdom.
Catfolk with no written backstory that I have seen.
Catfolk who turned Feral and started hunting down livestock when his tribe was decimated by orcs.
Merfolk daughter who survived her trading house's decimation.
Wayang who wants to be a hero when most Wayangs just want to be left alone and have no impact on anything.
Wayang who had parents that were great at their trades.
Grippli with no written backstory that I have seen.

Several others that I haven't really kept up with.

Sure, some people didn't really capture the 'saved from evil' thing, or even really gave an evil background at all... so I guess it's not really something to overly work yourself up about. :P

I think the "old world", 10000 years ago, is kinda like golarion as we know it while this "new world" could be pretty much anything.

I don't think two PoW classes is "over optimization" or even optimization. You can still only be in one stance and and you only get so many swift actions which are kinda required to take advantage of most of the abilities of the PoW classes. Vanguard Commander looks interesting, though it's a bit shame you can't get a shield as a special item given all those extra bashes. Extended Defense with Vanguard's Shield and something to allow you to rush over to allies to defend them sounds kinda cool (but broken), though I am not sure you'll have the ability to pick that up.

Yeah... I interpreted it as more like "misunderstood/mistrusted races." Hence Catfolk/Ratfolk and Changelings are on there, while Half-Orcs and Tieflings aren't, because the first group is more "monstrous" owing to the lack of contact most people have with them in a typical d20 setting.

Wayang are absolutely not an "evil" race, and neither are Merfolk, Grippli, or Vanara. But our group, at least, is focused on characters who strive to be civilized and heroic against their nature, rather than good; our Kitsune is trying to learn selflessness, our minotaur is working on self-restraint, our Vanara is working to overcome the animal savagery of his past, and our Changeling is looking for way to defeat the Night Hags of her ancestry. The Wayang I play is interested in overcoming his societal morality—since Wayangs tend to xenophobia and inaction, this mostly involves trying to remember to speak and fight when he's supposed to.

Also, at this point there have been nearly 40 characters created for this general world; I'd recommend working with the game's story, instead of criticizing it.

@Xanya: I think Spelunky Frog means that powerful classes without explanation are by default optimization. (That said, while Wayangs' innate magic explains Bloodrager, I never really explained my Oracle side or where my curses and mystery come from). We're all guilty of optimizing something; you optimized for murdering individual enemies (which fits your character's personality well enough), Makoto optimized for "most tails" (and is optimizing her eidolon to look as much like Okami as possible), and I optimized Teniel for ultimate creativity in what he can accomplish and when.

The 'everyone was evil' is a bit of an over generalization. Plenty of the characters within are or were good or perhaps misunderstood. A lot of the characters played in the campaign were rescued by Goodwin from dire circumstances and given a new life, but were not necessarily evil. Its a convenient hook to go on, but not totally necessary. Your thieves' guild background is perfectly acceptable, just probably not that part where you were the leader. Maybe trusted confidant, or special operative given your obviously exceptional abilities, and powers more commensurate with someone several levels above you.

Curious who is waiting in the wings. I have a few spots that may require replacing by very active players. Posting daily or more.

I am! I am currently travelling, so my time to work on the mechanics has been limited, but the character is a Mind Flayer Oracle/Synthesist Summoner/Steelfist Commando Warlord. Basic gist is that he was part of the squad in the previous mind flayer empire who went out and found hosts for new mind flayers. It was over the course of a few expeditions where he discovered the Great Old Ones cult, and found that he could draw power (at a cost) from his ancestors. The governing mind flayer body did not approve of any unsanctioned contact with the Old Gods, and enforced strict penalties on those who made contact with them. Upon finding out my character's transgressions (hard to hide things in a society where everyone can read minds), he was imprisoned and sentenced to death. This is where Goodwin intervened and through his guidance has had his misaligned moral system somewhat righted. While he still does not see the full moral spectrum properly yet, my character is extremely grateful to Goodwin for both saving his life and introducing a whole new system of thought. He would be LN, because although he has a firm grasp on the black and white aspects of morality, he struggles with many of the shades of grey. He has a strict code of conduct that he tries to follow to fulfill Goodwin's expectations.

Bit brief and hastily written, but I will elaborate on the ideas when I have the character and his background completely filled out. Should I still create him at level 1?

Yes level 1.

I am a very active player, you can check my games. I post multiple times a day. I was interested when you first listed this but didn't put something together. Let me look at recruitment again and come up with an idea.

5d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 3, 1, 2) = 13 10
5d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 1, 1, 5) = 18 16
5d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 2, 2, 6) = 16 12
5d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 6, 4, 5) = 22 16
5d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 4, 2, 6) = 20 16
5d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 1, 2, 6) = 19 16
5d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 2, 5, 1) = 20 17

so 17, 16, 16, 16, 16, 12, with 10points becomes 18,18,18,18,18,13 Nice

Would unchained Flurry be allowed with normal Monk, I want to use Archetypes, but Unchained Flurry is nice. Just a question :) Thank you.

Jealous of all these people that got great rolls. I only got one roll of 16 :<

I think in the past he said they were treated as separate classes, so no archetypes and no mix-and-matching,

I'm pretty sure I've seen several people pick archtypes, Maks and Eleanor and Kiki at least.

Maks doesn't have a monk class :P

This is an monk unchained-specific issue. Each unchained class has its own rules for what can and can't be done, and a Monk -cannot- take -any- archetypes, RAW and RAI.

Would unchained Flurry be allowed with normal Monk, I want to use Archetypes, but Unchained Flurry is nice. Just a question :) Thank you.

no, I am keeping them separate.

Maks doesn't have a monk class :P

This is an monk unchained-specific issue. Each unchained class has its own rules for what can and can't be done, and a Monk -cannot- take -any- archetypes, RAW and RAI.

Correct, and it seems some players were unaware of this, and I may have missed it in a few reviews myself since it may not have been clear what type of monk they were playing. I went back through and had a few people fix their builds. Anyone playing an unchained monk should not have any of the older archetypes.

no worries, I may finish the build before I leave work at 4:30 if not will have it up tomorrow.

Maks doesn't have a monk class :P

This is an monk unchained-specific issue. Each unchained class has its own rules for what can and can't be done, and a Monk -cannot- take -any- archetypes, RAW and RAI.

The real reason besides rules, is because it really does not work since some of the replaced features are now under Ki Powers instead of Class Features that you would receive per level. Archetypes still work with Unchained Rogues. At least, the one I chose and it appears it also still embraces archetypes.

Don't worry about Archetyping an Unchained Monk anyway, some pretty cool features are built within.

It was more a power level thing, I believe; there are some archetypes that would stack with Unchained Monk, but since it's a decidedly more martial-focused class, there is definite worry about how unbalanced it could become with the addition of more mixing.

Yea, there's no explanation for why you can't pick an archetype with the UM.

What's weird is the Weapon Adept, which is the archetype I was looking at, gives up class features that are a part of the normal progression of the Unchained Monk.

But, if I am still disallowed to take an archetype with the Unchained Monk, then I will stick with the regular Monk, as that archetype is integral to not just the mechanical build but also to the backstory and personality of my PC.

With triple gestalt, surely there's ways to fix the problems monk has.

Yeah... Unchained Monk's flurry trades extra attacks for accuracy, and nets out roughly equal; the big advantages of UMonk comes from full BAB, better HD, and pseudo-pounce, which in gestalt can all be accomplished easily through other means.

I am just curious, but what mechanical aspect of Weapon Adept is integral to your character? It seems like you trade of a LOT of stuff just to get perfect strike. The weapon focus/specialization is redundant with your item feats. Is perfect strike that good?

alright don't think I missed anything. Hope you like. Look forward to hopefully joining the team.

Pretty cool, does warlord let you wield oversize weapons without penalty, or are you going into one of the barbarian/fighter things later?

no, just like the iconic Amiri just using a oversized sword because i'm proficient because its deities favored weapon, Since I'm already large mine is a step up from hers. I will always have the -2 to attack with it unless I do Titan mauler as my cheese class. Could archetypes be taken with the cheese class? Got to go back and look on that.

Edit: So it doesn't mention archetypes so I guess that's a CaveToad question. Though my cheese dip is most likely going to be Paladin.

As long as you don't have any other levels in the base class, you can apply whatever archetypes are legal to your dips.

But -2 isn't a huge deal with your strength, really. And I always wanted to do a cleric/monk crusader's flurry thing, I think you're taking full advantage of that opportunity hahaha

Just cursory review. Ragathiel's favored weapon is a bastard sword not a greatsword, and 2d6 should go to 3d6 for weapon damage for medium->large, unless you have some other ability that changes it that I didn't note. (and 2d8 in the case of a bastard sword)

As far as I can tell the math seems to work for one or two things I checked, but it would help to break down the numbers for each of your attack scenarios you have listed, I find that helps a lot when adding in other penalties and bonuses on the fly. In tabletop games people with all their bonuses precanned into a number often would add the same bonus twice thinking they hadn't added it. When it is spelled out and shown, its harder to do that accidentally.

I can do that, sorry greatsword is a typo as I was thinking Gorum originally but then was like oh yeah need to be lawful to be a monk. Let me update and post again.

And you can't really use an oversized bastard sword, as you swap between one and two handed use. Pretty sure you can't use a two handed weapon oversized in any event, since a one handed weapon oversized goes to two handed. A bastard sword just has that built in without a penalty ( and thus exotic).

Alright put the break down in there. Will obviously make an alias if selected.

using the bastardsword is fine it is just like Amiri the iconic barbarian. Mine is a step bigger because as an ogre I'm large size. I'm proficient because its deity favored weapon don't have to take the feat.

Just like Amiri I can't use this one in one hand. If I go down a step to just a large one then I can switch that one between two handed and one handed. I'm not going to one hand with flurry, it just looks that way b/c a monk doesn't get Str 1.5 win using a two handed weapon to flurry. The best thing with it is really crusader flurry making the weapon a monk weapon and therefor letting me use it with Kata master to parry and riposte and regain panache when dropping or criting :)

Specifically, RAW, a bastard sword is a 1hander that can be wielded with two hands without the proper proficiency. Same with a dwarven waraxe.

Sounds extra sketchy, regardless of iconic characters, but seems like arguments for it are convincing enough if I read various discussions about it. Don't forget you have overall -1 to hit and ac due to large size.

Also everyone is selected, they are just put in the waiting list until a spot opens. Go ahead and do a formal crunch. Make sure you include a spoiler with your original stat rolls + link to the post and show math for all racial mods(ogre mods, ogre size mods, RP buys(extra str), and 10:10 pt allocations.

I'm not sure there are any characters who don't have something sketchy. I just calls em like everyone sees em. :)

yep totally forgot about the large AC penalty and hit penalty. I think I will just go down to the large size version then to keep my accuracy up. That way I can use it with einhander stance if I take it later. Alright will do alias now.

yep totally forgot about the large AC penalty and hit penalty. I think I will just go down to the large size version then to keep my accuracy up. That way I can use it with einhander stance if I take it later. Alright will do alias now.

Yeah man, you already goin' to be smackin' things around ... lol

How does gambit give +6 when you only have 16 charisma? Did you write wrong how much cha you have? Your rolls were awesome. Also, our item give us weapon focus for free at level 3, so you might want to look at other options to avoid retraining.

I am surprised you picked circular stance over scarlet einhander, but that's just preference I guess and you are probably planning on mostly using the sword in both hands anyway.

I like your character, he is strong ;).

I'm not sure there are any characters who don't have something sketchy. I just calls em like everyone sees em. :)

Agreed, its barely worth mentioning it compared to other stuff I have seen and can predict based on people's builds. You can almost sense the building synergy until they hit that magical level where it all gels into some supernova level attack. I'm totally fine with that sort of thing (at least in this campaign), because it just lets me make super fun ridiculously overpowered monsters to challenge them.

You, me, 6th level.

Let's do it.

Edit: @CaveToad, you just described 6th level xD