I know the Howler as printed in the adventure path says Heal DC 20 to remove the quills but when howler was printed in Bestiary 2, they lowered the DC to 15 if you want to go easy on us. =P
Failing that unless there's a penalty for removing the quills badly anyone with a positive wisdom score could take 20. >.>
Thank you for the heads-up Alessandro, but I'd rather keep the DC to 20. Since there is no penalty for failing checks, Catina can eventually remove the quills, given enough time. The only difference is just that-time, but it can make a difference later on.
I would say that each of the book you've found weighs approximately 1 lb.
Sorry, had a really busy day today. My post will have to wait until tomorrow morning, unfortunately. Off to bed now...
Sorry, don't have time to post this morning properly, but don't want to hold up anyone waiting to see if anyone knows anything about shadows. So rolling here and will post after work with Petals letting everyone know what she knows (letting you post ahead of her if you wish or at least plan), if she knows anything that is.
ugh well at least it is something.
Alessandro, your kukri is just a mundane weapon, am I correct? Or is it magical?
Unfortunately it is just mundane. So it doesn't work so good. I don't think I can crit the shadow either.
Hey Giuseppe, I reread your post and was curious if we need to wait for Catana and Faustinia to make knowledge checks before attacking. Wasn't sure if that counts as acting. Petals first impulse will be to smash one of them with a hammer like Alessandro did with her kukri's, probably using her smite evil to do so, cause while I know it won't help a bit, Petals doesn't have a clue.
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Hey Giuseppe, I reread your post and was curious if we need to wait for Catana and Faustinia to make knowledge checks before attacking. Wasn't sure if that counts as acting. Petals first impulse will be to smash one of them with a hammer like Alessandro did with her kukri's, probably using her smite evil to do so, cause while I know it won't help a bit, Petals doesn't have a clue.
Oh! I was assuming that I would have to wait until my turn to make the Knowledge check, even though we're allowed to speak on other players' turns. I thought I would have to wait because of this part of Giuseppe's post:
And also the way the groups I played with in Pathfinder Society was that once you were in initiative, you had to wait to make a Knowledge check about an enemy (as a free action/non-action). I never really considered whether that was a hard and fast rule in the book, though... it may be too late now, but Giueseppe, do let me know what you intended for this fight and so we get it right on future combats as well.
I agree, but got confused at "and I want everyone to be able to act in the right conditions, which in this case means knowing what the shadows do." Better to ask :)
And now Good night!
My Knowledge wasn't enough. But I see Incorporeal can't be damaged by mundane weapons at all. I don't have any magical attacks yet, so there isn't really anything I can do unfortunately.
Alessandro, you made an untrained knowledge check?
I can make Knowledge religion checks in regards to undead due to favored enemy.
Question about Catina's touch attack, if you can answer it: What caused the attack to fail? I thought that on a failed touch attack you held the charge, and could try again next turn.
Yep, and indeed you do hold your charge. I was just adding a little bit of flavor to the fight, but from a mechanical point of view, you can try again without having to cast the spell again.
Ah, thanks. I liked the part about the shadow changing shape to avoid the attack. It's the bit that went "and the explosion of positive energy bursting out from her hand is wasted" that threw me.
Hey Giuseppe, could you mark where the mirrors are on the map? I want to make sure I place my summons properly. :)
Done! :)
I thought Petal had enough movement to move around the shadow without provoking the attack of opportunity. Is there a good way to show the path? Ugh, I tried, she started next to Varius.
Either way, at this point Petals is only capable of doing 2 to 5 more points of damage than what she rolled, so happy with gm intervention since I really don't want the game to end. :)
I'd say we post more one round of actions, in a last-ditch attempt to deal with the mirrors. Giuseppe can adjudicate them as normal. Maybe we'll be lucky and that will turn the tide. If not, I'm more than happy than happy to accept a little 'help' from the GM.
Edit: Maybe for story reasons, Petals could try a Smite Evil on the mirrors? By the rules it probably wouldn't work, but rule-of-cool and such? Just an idea...
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I'm alright with asking for some GM intervention. The way this encounter is going, I think the adventure assumed we would have more ways to deal with this. Or at least, we have encountered those ways in the form of a magical weapon here and there, but it can be prohibitively expensive, especially for our two-weapon fighting combatants. I also prepared a lot more niche utility spells than is helpful, since I didn't expect a monster filled demi plane. :P
I'll go ahead and post as if there were no intervention coming and we'll see what happens I suppose!
I'll leave it to the others if they want help. There isn't really anything further I can contribute to the fight so maybe.
OK, guys, I've reached a decision. I won't be solving the solution for you, because that would make the whole combat feel strange and the possible success undeserved. I will, however, allow you to do some things which by RAW are not permitted.
Petals can use her smite evil ability on one of the mirrors and bypass its hardness.
Catina can use her channel energy ability to deal damage to the mirrors, bypassing their hardness, as though they were undead.
With this, I think you should be able to handle the two remaining shadows. If that will cost you too many resources, it would be a good idea to split the party: while a group exit the Knot to find some potions to restore ability damage and perhaps some scrolls to compensate for the loss of spells during this combat, the others can stay in the know and play a roleplay-heavy brief interlude, perhaps talking about their individual stories, focusing on a particular topic, and so on.
What do you think about it?
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That sounds like it could give us the edge to win the fight. Would that mean that Catina’s channel energy would hurt the mirrors as well as the shadows?
Let's see how the fight plays out with those advantages. If we lose anyone, it'll be sad but we could certainly work in a new character easily enough. A TPK would be rough for our momentum, but even that wouldn't be insurmountable - we could come in with a new set of Irises and make it work somehow.
Once we see what the aftermath is like, we can figure out how much regrouping we need to do.
Almost off to bed, but just wanted to give a quick reaction. That suggestion sounds workable. On that case, Catina would not have tried to make an attack with her flail, and would have tried to channel instead. Let's see where that leaves us, combined with the earth elemental and possibly with Petals's smite. And then we'll take it from there, as Faustinia says.
GM Guiseppe's suggestions sound fine to me. Regarding the part about splitting the party to search the mansion for potions, maybe we could hand wave it or resolve it in a few posts rather than delay continuing exploring the knot for too long.
Waiting until Guiseppe answers about the attack of opportunity then I'll put in my post. It might not be until the morning, sorry guys.
It would be a single post Alessandro, two at maximum. But it's not said that you'll need it. Petals, I will take a look at your path on the map and let you know.
Petals, I've looked at the map, but there must be something amiss. Are you trying to walk on the empty space in the pit? That would cause you to fall!
LOL! She can't just... um... fly. Just kidding. I missed it being a pit, my mind decided it was decoration. Sorry for the delay everyone.
Anyway, now that I have enough time to carefully consider the situation, there's something we all failed to consider, partly due to my fault, as I will explain below.
You can flee!
My fault consists in the fact that I failed to mention in the Knowledge check results that the shadows won't chase you outside of the room you're currently in.
As such I believe that fleeing is the better option for the party. Let me know if you agree with me, in which case I will consider that you have all tried to flee in your last turn.
If the shadows are going to continue to spawn, fleeing might not be the best idea.
They won't, because if they don't sense living beings nearby, they will stop spawning.
So, the idea is to flee and regroup, giving us time to heal some ability damage. And then return while we're ready for them, knowing we have to go for there mirrors while our strength is still up? Alternatively, we might back up a bit, hoping we find magical weapons somewhere in the manor.
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Considering the ability damage our team has already taken, it seems likely that we would have to return and recover anyway. So fleeing is certainly has its tactical advantages. It does seem like the best way to get away with our lives at this point, and I can still leave my summoned earth elemental to attack the mirrors - certainly such a thing would at the very least distract the shadows.
We can regroup, heal up, and make preparations to take on the shadows again. I can prepare more helpful spells, we could look for magical weapons, and do a bit of shopping preparation. I don't know if we're expected to stay in Aberian’s Folly the whole time, but if it would be strange for us to leave I'm sure we could have the majordomo send out a servant to go purchase some things, or to send word to Janiven and Arael that we need some things.
Since magic weapons are pricey, may I suggest some or any of the following:
-holy water
-scrolls/oils of magic weapon
-scrolls of mage armor would help boost AC against the shadows (Faustinia could possibly scribe some with time)
-scrolls of other damaging spells maybe? A few magic missile scrolls probably wouldn't hurt, but it wouldn't necessarily be the most effective option. We would preferably hit them hard and fast, but it might be useful for finishing off the last bit of hit points
Anything else?
We should try and get at least one magic weapon, even past this mission. Varius is our pure fighter. Pooling money to get one for him, or potentially getting the one back that we got off the tiefling boss. I think it was a mace? Nope Morningstar+1, Baolus still has it on his character sheet.
If not, the oils of magic weapon sounds like a great idea.
And we should never ever go anywhere without holy water again. :)
Hey guys, finally out of conference season. Was keeping up with posts as I could but my silence here has been a crazy life that is finally settling down.
On the fight, I imagine the game may have had at least one magic weapon show up earlier on but since Varius and Alessandro are both made late they wouldn't have started with on.
And fleeing is always a good idea. My hope was that the mirrors were an easy smash, but we're going to lose PCs rapidly at this rate. If we can send osmeone shopping some shadow-specific equipment should turn the fight.
Is it an option to come back later? I though that story-wise the Cornucopia was our way in, and we just had this one opportunity to look around Aberian's Folly undisturbed. I could see us retreating to regroup, but a total rest and coming back the next day? How would that work, in-game?
(I agree that it seems sensible, but I'm just not sure how feasible it is without disrupting the premise of the story.)
OK well, there's a misunderstanding. When I said "flee" I meant "flee somewhere else in the Knot". It would make no sense for you to leave the Knot now that you've managed to get in. Perhaps someone can try and get out of the Knot in order to gather some resources, but it wouldn't make sense for the whole party to leave the Knot.
For the moment, anyway, I just moved you out of the shadows' area. I'm sorry if this part has been pretty rough, and you feel like you've been "guided" but I think we can agree that a TPK is something to avoid, if possibile. Since me, as the GM, can see it coming, you must believe when I say that I could see it coming your way, and rather quickly at that.
That's a wise course of action, Giuseppe.
Now, I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but I still don't understand the plan, that was now formed in the gameplay thread. You mean to go out into the city, and get supplies from Arael? Sorry, but that's never going to work. First off, it's night and there's shadowbeasts. Second, it would take quite a long time and caused people in Aberian's Folly to wake up. Our best bet at this point is for Catina and Faustinia to scour the library, I believe, maybe find some scrolls or an ornamental magic weapon.
Then, a question for Giuseppe. I earlier got the impression that we were stuck, and the secret passage was our only way forward. Now, it seemed like there's an alternative way. Did I interpret that correct?
In other news: we picked up our new dog today. He's 8 weeks old, super cute, and a bunch of work. I'll try and get in a gameplay post later tonight, if I can find some time at the computer.
Congrats on the puppy! I've been a cat person all my life... til we got our dog. There is nothing like coming home to him pouncing up and down in delight when you get home. I still like my cats great, but they are mostly "oh you're home." What's his name?
Hmmm... the plan. Potions of lesser restoration is our best bet of getting back into fighting condition and Arael is our best bet for them. We could try the library or other interesting locations first. Petals and one other(with detect/read magic) could leave with the potion and spell, hope we can find something to help and then also to get back in without being killed. Then if that failed try and figure out a way to get to Arael.
My understanding is we have someone exit the knot, and actually leave the manor entirely to go shopping. Giuseppe is trying to make sure we can move forward here so I imagine that it's unlikely someone will be captured and killed doing so. Varius suggested Petals since she has the highest diplomacy score.
And I'd go for scrolls rather than potions since they're half the price. Hell, get some scrolls of magic weapon and then Varius/Alessandro can participate. But that sort of thing.
I'm confused. I thought we couldn't leave the mansion. I thought the party was the only way for us to get in. My understanding was we'd search the mansion for resources, but maybe I'm wrong.
OK guys, the situation is becoming a little paradoxical. I should not be the one to solve your problems, nor the one tasked with finding a solution. I did what I could in order to help you out of a dangerous and difficult situation, but that's all. The suggestion about getting out of the Knot was in case someone died or something like that. The adventure assumes that you're able to deal with the effect of ability damage, and that you prepared yourselves adequately for it.
Now, I think I will just stop aiding and ask you to discuss in-character your options. Feel free to do whatever you like. Keep in mind that this can result in a nice roleplaying scene. When you will have an agreement, I'll step in and move things forward.
I'm a little worried about the timeline after a long rest - Would the rest of the guests at the manor start waking up? Would it be noticed that we're not there? However, if that sounds like our best option and we need the spells, then I'll agree to the rest.