F.Y.I. I play Stellan.
It may be interesting to break out the good group and the Nidal group. But it would be much more work for GM Tareth. I can definitely attest to that.
This statement I find disturbing. As an OOC statement it's a player-to-player communique. The breakdown of the positions and the "good" and the "Nidal" is troublesome; Anwel/Zimmmerman called it "loaded", I'd call it provocative. To make things clear, neither I nor is Stellan supporting "the bad guys" of Nidal or elsewhere; I'm just playing the character. Is how I'm playing Stellan offending you, Warren/Chainmail? I do not mean it to. Is there something as a player you want from me? I'm very accommodating but I do not know you as a person and posts are a poor medium of communication, I feel like I might have given a personal offence that I'm unaware of. Please if there is any player to player issue, let's resolve it now and openly before it grows. I like the game and all the players, I'd hate for a misunderstanding to cause unnecessary friction.
Let me put it 100% out there. I actually really like Stellan's character and never really thought of him being associated with Nidal at all. Warren relates to Stellan more than anyone, and probably thinks of him as the best chance to be what Zavac the Scarred once was to him--a true best friend.
I have no problem with anyone but Anwel. In game posts that imply another character acted poorly or would be less useful than an animal companion or familiar I take offense at. In character, I can only assume that the character posting offensively does not like my character or thinks very little of him. After a while, though, rather than snipe outside the dialogue, I put it in the dialogue. I can take the sniping, but I actually got more upset when the sniping went to other characters and the DM.
Calling another character 'not dense' or quibbling with the DM I have taken offense with. But rather than PM other players, I put it right in the discussion thread. But it is now obvious other players are circulating PMs now.
I do this for fun and can get all the interpersonal conflict I want at work. I do not want conflict in my PbPs among characters. The Mysterious Stranger is fun to play. It is a well-known theme in the Wild West. When he spits tobacco on someone's shoes, it can be amusing. In this particular case, it has not improved party harmony.
I have asked the party to be more cooperative in the discussion thread rather than ask Anwel specifically. I got a curt reply that it would happen from Anwel, and have seen no evidence of it.
After Anwel insisted on not going straight to the butte, I gave in and let him have his way. After Anwel refused to accept the consensus by the camp, I sped things along by moving to action and saw many out of dialogue posts that were 'not friendly'. Rather than have a long discussion about fortifying or moving on in the game thread, I tried to preempt it in the discussion thread. Maybe this one thing Warren suggested, Anwel might actually go along with. Now things have come to head as Anwel drops his bomb that he has been deceitful all along and works for evil masters.
Unfortunately, as I posted in the game thread, the conflict is probably unavoidable between Warren and Anwel. When the PMs fly, it is time to cry. I have plenty other PbPs that are going well. I have told GM Tareth that this is one of my favorite PbPs, but I have others I am active in. Before we go further though, tell me what you think. Put it in the discussion thread, I'd rather not be PMed on this.
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I play Anwel. The important points in this post are emboldened for emphasis.
Let me state plainly and clearly that I really, really, have no problem with anyone involved in this PbP. I wouldn't have made you character portraits and devoted so much of my time to reading and responding to your posts if I didn't like you. The Internet is full of places that bring me joy, and this is one of them.
My Anwel persona is not who I am. I am a trained actor, and I am no more Anwel than I am Othello's Iago, or The Caucasian Chalk Circle's Azdak, or any other unpleasant or villainous character I have played. Though the demands of the job force me to feel towards Othello as Iago feels, or to feel towards Prince Kazbeki or the Grand Duke as Azdak feels, those feelings do not leave the playing area. The problem with the Internet is that it is harder to separate the playing area from every other part of the Internet. Sometimes I go over the line in Out of Character posts, and I appreciate being called on it, Warren. At your prompting, I apologized to Andrei for my presuming to tell him how I thought he ought to play his character. It wasn't my place. If Tareth wants an apology from me, I'll give it; he need only tell me what for. I have nothing but praise for the way he's conducted this game so far, especially for the care he lavishes on the NPCs and for the moral dilemmas he weaves into his scenarios. And I apologize to you, Warren, if you've taken anything I have said personally. I did not mean to give offense.
That being said, Anwel has some very specific and very grim given circumstances, and those circumstances make it easier for him to lash out at people, whether in sarcasm or in outright hostility, than to warm to them. Part of my goal in playing him is to develop him from that person into one who is less bitter and more open. But character development is slow, and it is painful. Anwel has to be forced to change, either by a drastic change in his circumstances or by the actions of other people. His part of the overall story we're telling has not proceeded at the pace I would have wished, and that is probably my fault for not making my thoughts on his character arc clear from the start, but I am pleased with how it has gone. I think the dynamic between Warren and Anwel was fine. They were opposed, and that created tension which made for interesting situations. But really, the way I see the story developing, that tension has just been resolved. The beat (that is, the part of a story defined by an overall arc or action) is over. Warren has won. He has Anwel at his mercy. Remember that change I mentioned? The rest of the group is now in a position to force change upon Anwel. They have already forced him to ask for their help instead of manipulating them into helping him unwittingly. And that is exactly what I wanted. Anwel may be stewing, but I really appreciate the roleplaying from everyone.
Let me try to clear up a few points I think may have gotten muddied. As far as I know, the route we have taken is the speediest and most direct route to Arrowhead Butte. I saw no convincing argument that "Going straight to the Butte" would have meant something other than hacking our way through the unmapped woods, unsure of where our destination was, without being able to follow a trail or landmarks. Likewise, I was not convinced by arguments for fortifying the camp, in either thread. I have trouble with the implication that the only way for me as a person to earn the respect of you as a person is to do exactly as you say without sharing my opinion. But those things are, as you point out, fairly minor issues.
Instead of futzing about with such minor issues, I tried to go to the root of the problem by sharing Anwel's backstory. Anwel and Warren would never have come into conflict had Anwel not deigned to share it and had Warren not taken such umbrage at that. So I thought sharing it would resolve some of the tension and let us move on to a new beat. The point of the revelation was not just that he was given a secret mission by Dima, but also, and more importantly, that he wants to be rid of her and sees the strengthening of the settlement as a means to that end, as well as a worthy end in itself. If I was not sufficiently clear on that point, I apologize for that too. I know that one of my weaknesses as an actor is specifying my actions in the moment.
Finally, I do not know what PMs you are talking about. I have not sent or received any on this subject. Nor, if this is what you were implying, did I ask Veshly to make his post.
F.Y.I. I play Andrei
I feel left out, no one has sent me any PMs ):
Firstly I would like to take the opportunity to apologise if I or Andrei caused offense it certainly wasn’t deliberate (in fact Andrei has a deep desire to be liked by everyone.)
BTW Warren I haven’t forgotten about your background info. Things have been either too exciting at home or in game for Andrei to have a quiet conversation about it.
I would really like a workable compromise too get this game working I have proposed one in game but Andrei will support any others. I like the game, the GM’s style and until recently the character interaction and don’t want to lose any of these aspects (I don’t want the game to lose either Warren or Anwel).
I wish to make it clear I have never sent or received any PM's or emails about anyone's character or play. I sent a PM to DM-Tarenth about ideas about my background for him to use as he chooses. I don't have anyone's email in game, everyone is unknown to me except as they posted or by following the profile links. I'm not talking behind anyone's back.
My thoughts are my own, if Stellan disagrees with Warren on something it's because I, the player, believe that a different course should be followed. I've looked at the map, I think the camp is indefensible with our small numbers. I might be wrong but it looks that way to me. Since I have no reason for to role-play the situation sub-optimally, I have Stellan say the same. If I thought he would say something else because of character reasons, I would have him do so.
Okay. Well, first let me say I've been following the discussion, but was kind of sitting back and letting you all handle the choice of leader, no leader, move on quickly or stay, etc. Partly because I think this should be decided on by the party not the GM but also because I've been pretty swamped at work and home the last couple of days.
Just to clarify, I have no plans or intentions to split the group. For a bit there I toyed with starting a second campaign (Kingmaker or something else entirely) but that's just not in the cards right now as I've got too much RL stuff happening to give a second campaign the attention it would deserve.
Also I just want to let folks know OOC that I have no immediate plans to drop a bunch of 'Shadow Demons From The Nine Hells' on the party because of Anwel's background story. Everyone's character has a few hooks I can use at some point (as did all of the earlier PC's
). However, in my mind, many of these might not even come in to play until a kingdom has actually been established and the group has something worth taking away. After that point...well...all bets are off. ;)
It also appears we've lost Thad (he hasn't posted anywhere on the boards since prior to the holidays from what I can tell) so while he likely would have made a good leader from a RP standpoint, I'd rather not have the group turn to an NPC leader unless it is absolutely necessary. However, I'm willing to do this if it will help the characters in conflict come to terms and move forward.
Finally, I'm glad people have enjoyed the campaign to date and no one has done anything that I find offensive or too difficult to deal with.
We all have different play styles and personalities. I've certainly been the guy who pushed an encounter forward by having my PC go see "What's behind door #3?" while the rest of the group went back and forth over strategy or tactics. I've also had the PC with the background full of enemies (A Gunfighter in a Wild West Campaign) or who ends up betraying half the party (Secret Shadow Fist Agent in a Wild Cards Campaign). The last one was actually encouraged by the GM and designed into the campaign. I say all this so that you all understand that as a GM none of the actions by the characters in this game have had an adverse effect on my campaign plans or ability to run the game. How the PC's react to others actions is, of course, up to the players. :)
Just keep in mind that this is a game, we are all here to have fun and create a story, good stories involve conflict, but let's make sure that we keep the conflict at the character level. That's enough rambling for me for now. :)
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Given that Anwel's engaged in something other than the IC discussion at the moment, I'll just give my OOC thoughts on various things.
"If we do believe his story then he is in the same boat as the captive bandits. Given that is what he is doing anyway by helping us defeat the goblins I feel little need to make it official but if that was the price of a united group then I am happy to go along with it as I suspect he would be too."
Your suspicion that Anwel would go along with something like this is correct. I would have to hear a specific proposal to give my definitive opinion on it.
"Here is my suggestion, Warren be our tactician and in battle his word is final, I lead the group out of battle determining our general direction and approach. If Warren disagree in that general direction on military grounds we turn to Stellan, who I believe has a wise opinion, as the arbitrator and his word will be final. Does that sound like a compromise that can work and bring the party back together?"
You'll get no objection from Anwel. It's a bit complicated, but then, systems with checks and balances always are.
"And I will point out that I stayed in a party led by Anwel when Thad stopped giving directions
Let me just say that at no point between leaving the Levetons' and now did I feel as though I were leading the party. I never saw myself do more than give advice and let other people make the decisions. I thought the advice was good, certainly, and worth following, but there's a big gulf between giving advice and giving orders.
"and I have stated that for now Anwel has lost his 'vote'."
Would you mind clarifying what this means? So far, no one seems to be going along with this proposal, but perhaps that is because it is formulated vaguely. What does "a vote" mean? Does it mean a share in determining who ought to lead the party? Or does it mean the right to share one's opinion on things? I can deal with the former. The latter seems a bit...restrictive on my ability to roleplay.
"Moving forward we would be enroute or in a travel formation which is significantly more exposed. We then expose ourselves to unknown threats which may be more than what we fought here."
Here's why I find this argument unconvincing. Taken to its logical conclusion, this is an argument for abandoning the mission entirely. As long as we are outside the walls of the trading post, we will be exposing ourselves to unknown and powerful threats.
"We came straight here, and it was a mistake."
Would you mind clarifying how? By what means other than coming here would we have found a route to Arrowhead Butte? I'm not being sarcastic or dismissive here: I really want to know.
If anybody has a question they'd like inserted into the interrogation, please don't hesitate to share it.
Anwel should have asked before beginning the interrogation. It is somewhat late.
Hardly. We have infinite messages available for anyone who can cast it to give me inaudible instructions at any time. Besides, this little tangent with Jink isn't eve the real interrogation. I expect him to know about as much information on Tartuk and his plans as Tam knows about Akiros and his plans. I'm questioning Jink so Vrag, who is bound to know more, can see me questioning Jink. I can then pretend to know much more than I do, and shake his confidence thereby.
Hardly. We have infinite messages available for anyone who can cast it to give me inaudible instructions at any time. Besides, this little tangent with Jink isn't eve the real interrogation. I expect him to know about as much information on Tartuk and his plans as Tam knows about Akiros and his plans. I'm questioning Jink so Vrag, who is bound to know more, can see me questioning Jink. I can then pretend to know much more than I do, and shake his confidence thereby.
Unfortunately, the goblin is the most important interrogation subject.
We have two goblins so there is another one.
Unfortunately, the goblin is the most important interrogation subject.
How do you figure? We have in our custody two subordinates and a commander. Wouldn't the commander, among all of them, be expected to know the most?
Also, you'll note that whenever the topic of interrogating goblins came up before, I had Anwel mention that he'd want Imon or Andrei telling him what to say. Both Imon and Andrei, who would ordinarily be expected to take the lead in talky situations, know the value of message spells, and Stellan has the spell prepared as well. Anwel brought them up in his AAR. So it's not as though the idea to use them to direct Anwel in his approach would be completely foreign to them. Heck, even Anwel admitted, twice, that them doing so would be better than leaving him to his own devices, because despite his pretensions, he's not actually that good at this sort of thing.
The only reason Anwel is involved at all in the interrogations is because he alone among us can can speak Goblin and there's no indication that any of the goblinoids speak Taldane. Now, interrogating prisoners is something we really do need to do, so the communication difficulties are just something we're going to have to deal with.
Just a note. Even if Anwel doesn't think so Andrei is just trying to come up with a workable compremise of power and hasn't made his mind up about if they should stay a while to let Imon heal.
True, but you did bring up the trouble with our few numbers compared to relatively large area of the camp, and Warren has not addressed that. And resting would be wonderful but, if we are attacked in the night, we lose that. Of course, it's possible it'll take more than a day for the goblins to get back to "base" and for a counter-attack to be readied and launched. I just think we would lose badly against force as strong as the one we, fortunately, won against.
Just a note. Even if Anwel doesn't think so Andrei is just trying to come up with a workable compremise of power and hasn't made his mind up about if they should stay a while to let Imon heal.
Remember, Anwel's a spin-doctor by trade (that's what illusion is, after all), and in bad need of a pick-me-up. Don't take any assessment he makes of any situation pertaining directly to him seriously. It's at least half self-deception.
That said, Jink's information may produce a surprising result should anyone deign to ask Anwel about it.
Just a note. Even if Anwel doesn't think so Andrei is just trying to come up with a workable compremise of power and hasn't made his mind up about if they should stay a while to let Imon heal.Remember, Anwel's a spin-doctor by trade (that's what illusion is, after all), and in bad need of a pick-me-up. Don't take any assessment he makes of any situation pertaining directly to him seriously. It's at least half self-deception.
That said, Jink's information may produce a surprising result should anyone deign to ask Anwel about it.
Andrei is on his way
Andrei is on his wayJust a note. Even if Anwel doesn't think so Andrei is just trying to come up with a workable compremise of power and hasn't made his mind up about if they should stay a while to let Imon heal.Remember, Anwel's a spin-doctor by trade (that's what illusion is, after all), and in bad need of a pick-me-up. Don't take any assessment he makes of any situation pertaining directly to him seriously. It's at least half self-deception.
That said, Jink's information may produce a surprising result should anyone deign to ask Anwel about it.
Guide me, dear leader :D
The Bone Ravens had already dug a firepit between ten and fifteen feet in diameter (I'm not sure how deep it is, but I would guess between two and four feet) and had set a fire burning in it by the time we came on the camp, which accounts for our ability to burn corpses. It also, though the prospect is more than a little grisly, accounts for our ability to prepare food, though a cookfire isn't strictly necessary if we stick to hard rations. The interrogations so far have lasted less than ten minutes.
As for our being unable to chop, carry, and build with tons of lumber, well, you make a good point. The platforms and the cart could be cannibalized for wood, but there'd only be so much we could do with that.
Just to clarify Warren and Tam's actions:
priority 1=move the barricade to the bridge
priority 2=Warren gathers wood for burning and branches with foliage for concealment
while Tams puts the burning wood in bonfire piles and the concealing branches in the only two platforms Warren plans to defend
priority 3=Warren and Tams move any cannons from the other towers to the two towers to be defended
priority 4=trench the bonfire piles with a quick and dirty firebreak, nothing fancy
So it's somewhere around noon at the moment? This is exceptionally helpful information.
Just to clarify Warren and Tam's actions:
priority 1=move the barricade to the bridge
If the point is to block passage over the bridge, would it not be better to move wood from the barricade to the east bank of the river and to tear up the bridge? With the bridge gone, there would be no need to block passage over it, meaning the wood from the barricade can be put to use elsewhere. The wood from the bridge could also swell our stock of usable lumber.
I admit that this adjustment to the plan only makes sense if the point of moving the barricade is to block passage over the bridge. If there is another point to the plan that I have missed (a very real possibility, since, as Anwel cannot both meaningfully contribute to the fortification and the interrogation, I have not been paying much attention to the fortification), or a contingency you have in mind that requires the bridge to remain in place, I would appreciate correction.
Apparently by burning the bodies you've damned their souls to the Abyss. I would say that's intimidating, no?
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Apparently by burning the bodies you've damned their souls to the Abyss. I would say that's intimidating, no?
Yep, it would be, if I knew that was what Gorax was doing ... Gorax doesn't speak Goblin and doesn't understand what's going on, so I don't read the goblin spoilers.... but its nice to know..
Oh, when we get back to Oleg's Gorax will buy a shovel, someone remind him if I forget!!
I don't want to beat this to death but I doubt any fire we build under these conditions can cremate the bodies of the goblins. I think Gorax is just cooking a bunch of 50 pound "Long Pigs." It'll take hours to dessicate the bodies and even then they won't be ash, more like overcooked bacon. (Yum! Shudder.) :p
Physically speaking, yeah, no wood fire's gonna get hot enough to vaporize flesh, much less bone. With careful management a wood fire could char layers of flesh until it all falls away as ash and we're left with bones, bot going by Gorax's description of what he's doing that won't happen, and it would take all night in any case. But really, I believe the point isn't to remove evidence that we's been here, but to deter predators by not letting the flesh putrfy and smell. Whether the smell of cooked flesh is any better than rotting flesh is another question entirely.
Busy today, post tomorrow, seems we've hit a pause anyway.
Sorry I've been busy with work will post soon
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Total Money found so far in fight with goblins at the camp 23gp 45sp ...
Stuff found or taken from the goblins
50 feet of spider silk rope. It feels strong and has a slight stickiness to it that would be helpful when climbing. (+1 to all Climbing when using.)
6 dart reloads for the throwers. Each is a single 'packet' of a least a dozen small darts.
1 small vial of anti-toxin (1 dose)
A package of 4 tindertwigs wrapped in a square of dry cloth.
8 short swords or poor or standard condition
8 short bows for small creatures and 85 small arrows
6 sets of poor quality leather armor sized for small creatures.
There is a variety of other minor trinkets and other objects but they are of little to no value.
plus
Goblin Treasure from Spiders
2 vials of antitoxin - 1 dose each
2 hand axes
25' of spider silk rope. It feels strong and has a slight stickiness to it that would be helpful when climbing. (+1 to all Climbing when using.)
1 set of small wood chisels
1 rusty shovel
Gorax takess the Rusty Shovel and holds the purse with the money.
There is a variety of other minor trinkets and other objects but they are of little to no value.
Do you mean monetary worth or utility?
There is a variety of other minor trinkets and other objects but they are of little to no value.Do you mean monetary worth or utility?
Both really. Bits of string, metal, bone, feathers. Goblin sporks. Goblin C-rations. A nifty stick marked with a goblin's initials. Goblin pet rock. That kind of stuff.
Well, I'm more stable now. I've now caught up, roughly, with the OOC thread. If possible, I'd like to rejoin the campaign as Udoeak.
I'm really sorry about how long it took to get back, but I didn't get stable as fast as I thought I would. I'm better now, and actually have some free time with which to post.
Welcome back. I'm not sure how and where Udoeak left, I don't remember it was a confusing time with you and Thad departing, Thad back then Thad gone. It's up to the DM, of course but we could use another, Stellan's not quite good enough a healer to handle all our needs.
One silver lining in the slow pace of PbP is that even a long absence is not long in game time, it's been what? Maybe three days since our characters saw you last? Getting to be time to reread the posts again.
I'll try to do that this weekend.
Yeah, nice to hear from you again. It is only the second day since you left. I should update the timeline as well. Andrei can do a little healing as well (at least HP damage).
Well, I'm more stable now. I've now caught up, roughly, with the OOC thread. If possible, I'd like to rejoin the campaign as Udoeak.
I'm really sorry about how long it took to get back, but I didn't get stable as fast as I thought I would. I'm better now, and actually have some free time with which to post.
Just thinking about the logistics of reintegrating you, we're in the woods, but we haven't been all that proactive about hiding our trail, and we're planning to stay where we are overnight, so if Oleg gives you a horse you should be able to catch us easily enough.
I'm glad to hear you're more stable.
Udoeak: You are certainly welcome to rejoin. As the others mentioned, little actual game time has passed, so it is fairly easy for you to ride into the camp during the current scene. If you need one, there were plenty of captured horses at Oleg's.
Alright, thank you very much. I've gotten Udo updated, and will be posting in the game thread momentarily.
That's not too bad, I guess. I'll get that updated on the profile.
I've gotten Udo updated
I believe you're entitled to two more formulae: deathwatch as a bonus from the Vivisectionist archetype and one of your choice from leveling to 2.
You're totally right. I've updated Udoeak with Deathwatch and Shield. Thank you very much, I'd updated the Hero Lab portfolio, but didn't carry it over to my profile.
I've also updated his Default Prepared Extracts list.
"I'm mostly out of castings, as is Anwel."
I know strictly speaking this conversation is happening out of earshot of everyone but Stellan and Udo (which is a shame, since Anwel would be quite buoyed by Udo's support - oh well, maybe some other time), so I can't respond in character. But this is false. I retain half my daily repertoire of spells, two of which are color spray, and seven uses of Binding Darkness. Not that Stellan would know anything that specific, but he would know in character that Anwel considers himself ready for another fight or two - he said as much after the conclusion of this fight.
Sorry I got the impression somehow that you were low on spells and said so, I guess I mis-remembered.
Sorry I have been slack with posting. Work has got crazy, it will continue to be so for a bit but I'll try to make more time for short posts.
"Somehow I doubt Kressle was buying poison for her men to drink," Anwel deadpans. He finds Gorax's and Imon's reactions very frustrating, a rehash of their unfounded, at the time, suspicion of the goblins. That the latter turned out to be slavers and cannibals does not, in Anwel's mind, justify any of this overt hostility.
I love the way that Anwel thinks. That he can square in his mind that Imon was wrong to be so judgemental, even though Imon's suspicioun turned out to be correct, is nothing less than phenominal in my mind. I guess Imon was right for the wrong reasons, right?
I guess Imon was right for the wrong reasons, right?
Pretty much, yeah :)
I'm also fascinated by Anwel's character in general. It's going to be quite interesting, to be sure.
Updated the treasure doc.