Happy 2013 all. Hope everyone has a good year with plenty of great gaming opportunities and experiences.
A summoned dog appears 30 feet south of Warren's position and charges the bugbear.
I'm pretty sure this is impossible. Appearing thirty feet south or Warren's position would put the summoned dog on V13. That trio of maroon squares in AB16, AB17, and AB18 is a barricade or stockade (I'd guess it's about ten to fifteen feet high, considering Vrag was able to shoot over it) that would prevent anything on V13 from charging anyone on the other side.
That explains why it missed (: Maybe another eagle would work better.
I'm not real clear about what it costs to move through the light green terrain, the map says -2, but I have no idea what that means.
Imon: Light forest is -25% to move. So 15' for those who move 20' and 22.5' for those who move 30' (Since we've got 5' squares on the map in would be a move of 20' for this encounter).
The map key is fixed.
Put another way, dark green squares use up "twenty feet" of movement speed each, while light green squares use up "six feet eight inches". A single move action through only dark green squares would take a character with thirty feet of movement speed one square in any direction, while a double move through only dark green squares would take a character three squares in any direction. A single move action through only light green squares would take a character with thirty feet of movement speed four squares in any direction, while a double move through only light green squares would take them nine squares in any direction.
Further clarification. Imon would be able to get to H14 (though not H13) with a single move action, since it's twenty feet away from his starting position on D14 and since he'd be moving through light green terrain all the way. Gorax, travelling due west from his starting position on I11, would be able to make it to M11 with a double move. Moving through J11 alone would cost twenty feet of Gorax's forty-foot double move, and the three light green squares would take another twenty feet between them.
Sorry for the grumpy post yesterday, just had spent more than an hour studying the map and figuring movement trying to decide where I needed to be several rounds down, then I did a preview and it felt like a waste. Just consider the post my fifth round action and move on, please.
Speculation @ Andrei:
From all this I deduce that it would be a DC 16 Acrobatics check to jump on top of the barricade and a DC 21 Climb check (the DC to climb an exterior wooden wall) to clamber up it. The dog stood and fought on top of the barricade, though it was a Small creature.
EDIT: nevermind, Tareth answered definitively in the IC thread :)
Unrelated @ Tareth
It wouldn't have mattered given the caliber of the goblins' rolls, but the DC versus one of Anwel's silent images is 17, not 16. 10 + [spell level] + [INT mod] + [spell focus] = 10 + 1 + 5 + 1 = 17.
Also, though again it doesn't matter as the illusion would have been blown either way, only G7 would have been entitled to a save versus the silent image. A figment has AC 10, so G8 wouldn't have hit S3.
Rereading the second section of my post, I sound very pushy and that wasn't my intent. Apologies if anyone was offended by my tone. I especially do not want to sound like I'm trying to argue against how actions have already been resolved. I just wanted to be clear, for future reference, on how I think various things work. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will accept correction.
I wasn't offended. I would have however argued at a DC 21 climb check to get on top of a 4 ft wall.
Quick question about the map. Does the barrier run under the raised platforms? Is there any way though there other than climbing up to the platform, climbing on the barrier or going right around?
Andrei, the barrier runs under the platforms to the trunks of the two large trees. From AB15:AB19. The only way around is around the trees, so AA22:AD22. The area under the platform is considered clear terrain for movement purposes.
Just to let everyone know, I'll be in meetings and then traveling most of today. I likely won't be able to get a full post completed until Thursday.
Just to let everyone know, I'll be in meetings and then traveling most of today. I likely won't be able to get a full post completed until Thursday.
We'll manage. I hope you enjoy yourself to the greatest extent possible.
Interesting factoid: going by just the creatures we're fighting, this is a CR 7 encounter. Given the Bone Ravens' terrain advantage and use of artillery, it might edge into CR 8. It looks like (and I say this with as much caution and hedging as possible) we've managed to turn the tide, but we had to use a great deal of magic to do so. Stellan's used two of his three first-level spells and disabled three of our fifteen foes. Warren's used all three of his first-level spells and killed two of our fifteen foes. Andrei's used one of his three first-level spells, killed one of our fifteen foes and scared off two more. I've used three of my six first-level spells, plus another two from my wand, killed one of our fifteen foes and scared off two more.
I bring this up not to pat anyone on the back, but to emphasize that this encounter, statistically speaking, should kill at least one of us. It was only through an abundance of caution on both sides and the expenditure of a lot of daily resources on our part that it has not done so so far. Unless Imon, Gorax, and I are reinforced, it still might.
There are 7 of us which adds about two to our effective character level and we are 25 build points which I would add another one for which makes it a EL +3 fight. Which is a tough fight but given at least in this part of the adventure I (and my character) wouldn't expect another fight today using lot of our resources isn't much problem. That and there is nothing wrong with a world where we can't defeat everything we meet (although I don't see Andrei backing down from anything short of a dragon).
Sorry about the running off away from you, and not directing Thad to help you. I wanted the deal with the goblins on the tower before they woke up the bugbear by mistake and thought having the character of the absent player tying up sleeping people was a good use of them. I'll come back and help now, promise.
There are 7 of us which adds about two to our effective character level and we are 25 build points which I would add another one for which makes it a EL +3 fight. Which is a tough fight but given at least in this part of the adventure I (and my character) wouldn't expect another fight today using lot of our resources isn't much problem. That and there is nothing wrong with a world where we can't defeat everything we meet (although I don't see Andrei backing down from anything short of a dragon).
The ad-hoc adjustment to Average Party Level (APL) for a party larger than five characters caps at 1. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it is possible to imagine very large parties, but then again, rare is the table that has seven players plus the GM playing, and we only have six PCs now not counting Thad. The high point buy might make a difference, and I hadn't considered that, so say another ad-hoc +1. That's an APL of 4. For level 4 characters a CR 7 fight is still an "epic" encounter, though four actual level 4 characters would probably find this encounter easier than we have due to their access to second-level spells. That same access would also mean that they'd use fewer resources, proportionally, since they'd have extra first-level spell slots on top of their second-level slots.
I don't think it's correct to assume we will not be having any more encounters today. The sun rose at about 08:00 hours, and we broke camp shortly thereafter. From what I've been able to glean from Tareth's posts, including the fact that the rain hasn't dried or the fog burnt off yet, as well as explicit statements of how long things took, we can't have reached Kressle's camp any later than 11:00 hours, and it is very possible that we reached it by 10:00 hours. The day's not even half over. Given our mission we can't hold this camp, but must press onward with all possible speed and no intelligence about the lay of the land. I think the safest assumption is that we will have more encounters before we rest.
The point about not being able to defeat everything we meet is well made. This was a slapped-together border post, after all - the interior of the Bone Ravens' territory is probably held even more securely. Given this, and given that we are almost certainly going to have more encounters today, this rate of resource use is not sustainable. We must alter our approach, either to be stealthier, to be more deceptive, or to be more diplomatic.
Sorry about the running off away from you, and not directing Thad to help you. I wanted the deal with the goblins on the tower before they woke up the bugbear by mistake and thought having the character of the absent player tying up sleeping people was a good use of them. I'll come back and help now, promise.
Much obliged.
I don't mind the odd epic encounter (at least I prefer them to very simple ones where half the party feels useless [sorry Gorax I should have waited another round for you, my fault]) but having them too often can a problem. Largely I see it as a GMing style, I like as a GM to give an occasional epic encounter where the bad guys are prepared to capture the PCs alive that way it feels epic if they overcome the encounter but if they fall then they still live to escape and fight another day. I'm quite happy to have faith in the GM until he start randomly killing characters.
It is possible will have more encounters, but Andrei's thoughts are we have been in the wilderness for several days and this is the second thing that has tried to kill them and they attacked this one themselves (it doesn't seem too bad out here to him) and so he doesn't expect to have another fight today. At some point he'll be wrong.
I totally agree to needing a better approach. I don't think that was the approach that any of planned and as soon as this fight is over we can talk about it in character and question the prisoners for intelligence.
On the coming for help Andrei is quiet surprised Stellan put the Eagle's life above your's and unfortunately it take me a while to reach you.
I don't mind the odd epic encounter (at least I prefer them to very simple ones where half the party feels useless [sorry Gorax I should have waited another round for you, my fault]) but having them too often can a problem. Largely I see it as a GMing style, I like as a GM to give an occasional epic encounter where the bad guys are prepared to capture the PCs alive that way it feels epic if they overcome the encounter but if they fall then they still live to escape and fight another day. I'm quite happy to have faith in the GM until he start randomly killing characters.
You seem to think I'm criticizing the GM. I'm not. My original intent in pointing out the difficulty of this encounter was to plead for assistance, since making such a plea IC met with mixed results. The discussion seems to have drifted a bit from that, though.
It is possible will have more encounters, but Andrei's thoughts are we have been in the wilderness for several days and this is the second thing that has tried to kill them and they attacked this one themselves (it doesn't seem too bad out here to him) and so he doesn't expect to have another fight today. At some point he'll be wrong.
Come now, Andrei's not dense. This is the second day we've been in the wilderness since leaving the trading post (I know it feels longer, but that's PbP for you). The first day was spent on a well-used and well-mapped trail. The people who had made and used the trail most often - Kressle's company of bandits - were no longer around to defend it. And yet we were still attacked in the evening by a roving monster, an unlikely coincidence. Today we encountered three net traps as well as this camp all in less than three hours (again, I know it feels longer). And it is debatable who attacked first. Warren made the first aggressive move on our side by casting summon nature's ally I, but Vrag sent his spider cavalry into the trees at the same time.
I totally agree to needing a better approach. I don't think that was the approach that any of planned and as soon as this fight is over we can talk about it in character and question the prisoners for intelligence.
Yeah. I've got a whole AAR planned :P
On the coming for help Andrei is quiet surprised Stellan put the Eagle's life above your's and unfortunately it take me a while to reach you.
To be fair, that eagle has to its credit as many kills this fight as Anwel, Imon, and Gorax put together, and Warren did swap out his prepared cure light wounds for summon nature's ally I, so he couldn't heal Monty even when he reached him.
You seem to think I'm criticizing the GM. I'm not. My original intent in pointing out the difficulty of this encounter was to plead for assistance, since making such a plea IC met with mixed results. The discussion seems to have drifted a bit from that, though.
Oh very sorry. Its a problem I always have with written conversations, I have trouble interpreting intent. On the plus side its working... slow. I wish I had a ranged weapon, I have always planned on buying Andrei a bow or crossbow as soon as he got ANY loot (that and a horse).
Come now, Andrei's not dense. This is the second day we've been in the wilderness since leaving the trading post (I know it feels longer, but that's PbP for you). The first day was spent on a well-used and well-mapped trail. The people who had made and used the trail most often - Kressle's company of bandits - were no longer around to defend it. And yet we were still attacked in the evening by a roving monster, an unlikely coincidence. Today we encountered three net traps as well as this camp.
I'll give you four days out, two from last journey out (although I think it was three by the time we got back) and 2 for this one. Yes you are quite possibly about PbP time (:.
To be fair, that eagle has to its credit as many kills this fight as Anwel, Imon, and Gorax put together, and Warren did swap out his prepared cure light wounds for summon nature's ally I, so he couldn't heal Monty even when he reached him.
Yeah that is totally fair (and in reality a better use of his time) but in Andrei's list of priorities saving the eagles is at the say level as keeping rest of party happy, while important fall below keeping party alive (Andrei's world view is rather human/humaniod centric.)
You may be surprised but I doubt Anwel is. While I haven't had Stellan think about it in character, Stellan sees the animal companions as being as important as the people in the party. He was heading all the time toward Monty since he fell and he cast his sleep spell, (very effectively, oddly for me) to open that path for him to get to him as much as any other reason. Stellan's a very good guy but his values are different, he is a "Mountain Man" and his thinking is not going to match your characters. Note he's do the same for you if you fell first but while you are on your feet he'll go for the most injured party member, even if it has beaks and feathers. :)
Ninja'd there. Stellan's not humancentric.
I guess I'll chime in here just so you all can learn a bit more about my GM'ing style. First, I'll just say I've been GMing and playing a variety of RPG's in a variety of genres since the early 80's. Thus I come from a bit of an old school attitude in the sense that there will be encounters that a party should run from, plan very carefully for, or expect that someone could die. On the flip slide, I hope they will be entertaining, challenging, and provide a sense of accomplishment...and maybe a little bit of treasure. :)
Having said that I don't like to kill PC's just 'cause. Sometimes the dice go poorly, other times they go great. Stuff happens, PC's make mistakes or bite off more than they can handle despite warnings, the monsters get lucky, or an encounter may have been simply was too brutal. For that last point, I have no problem adjusting an encounter mid stream to better balance with the party if things are waaay out of whack and they weren't meant to be. (Maybe that ogre magi already used half of his spells earlier in the day. The clutch of giant centipedes consists of mostly young and thus their poisons aren't quite as effective. One of the party gets tossed against the wall to reveal a secret door that offers an easy escape for the group.)
I tend to go more with what feels right when making encounters and I rarely use the CR system except to get a quick feel for a monster I haven't used before. (I'll also use it to help calculate XP in Pathfinder since that's kind of a pain at times. Of course, I usually adjust for the changes I made to the encounter.)
Since Kingmaker is a sandbox/exploration campaign pretty much anything can happen and in any order. So far we've got one plot line running, but there are others that the party may/will encounter and it'll be up to you all to decide when, where, what you'll do. How you choose is up to you. You have been warned! :)
Finally, I'm always open to feedback from players about how things are going. So feel free to post here or PM me if there are questions or concerns. (I realize the earlier posts weren't meant to criticize, I'm just trying to make sure you all know the lines are open if there is a need.)
Now who is going to feed...I mean...take down those two spiders? :)
On the point of party encounters the sandbox aspect is important, sometimes we will need to run. On the other hand failing this mission would be bad. On the gripping hand I wish Thad was still posting, he's the spotlight characte for this one. The encounter has gone better than I expected so far, got very lucky with that sleep spell but we do need some caution now. Getting some info would help.
My original intent in pointing out the difficulty of this encounter was to plead for assistance.......Come now, Andrei's not dense.
We should probably have this conversation now and it should probably happen in the discussion thread. I took 'interesting factoid' as a similar statement to 'with all due respect'. 'Come now, Andrei's not dense' was also a poor choice of words.
This game is quite good. I would match it up against most of the Kingmaker threads on the paizo boards. Before moving over, you had a chance to see what the game was like. I told you it was not Kingmaker, it is Kingmaker taken to a higher level as only a quality DM can.
I would hope this stays friendly and professional. AND, the last person who needs grief is DM Tareth.
I'll give you four days out, two from last journey out (although I think it was three by the time we got back) and 2 for this one. Yes you are quite possibly about PbP time (:.
I'm not really counting the time before we last came to the trading post, since due to the need to sync up the timelines we don't really know how long we were out in the wilderness or everything that happened during that time. We know that the incidents with the zombie and the spider happened, but not whether the intervening time was filled with harrowing danger or a whole lot of nothing. I suppose you have a point in that it's quite likely that it was a whole lot of nothing, but on the other hand we know IC that the other party was plagued by worgs, river serpents, and bandits during the same period of time, and that they also encountered grigs, so we know the lands are dangerous.
You may be surprised but I doubt Anwel is. While I haven't had Stellan think about it in character, Stellan sees the animal companions as being as important as the people in the party. He was heading all the time toward Monty since he fell and he cast his sleep spell, (very effectively, oddly for me) to open that path for him to get to him as much as any other reason. Stellan's a very good guy but his values are different, he is a "Mountain Man" and his thinking is not going to match your characters. Note he's do the same for you if you fell first but while you are on your feet he'll go for the most injured party member, even if it has beaks and feathers. :)
Ninja'd there. Stellan's not humancentric.
This by no means comes out of the blue. Stellan's been long-established as an animal lover. His class, unlike classes like Druid, Cavalier, or Wizard where it's an option, must have a bonded companion. He named his horse, an animal to which he is not bonded, before any other Kudosite (he also had a horse before any Kudosite except Gorax). Warren trusted him with the welfare of his eagles after the whole discussion of his past and powers.
Anwel doesn't particularly agree with this worldview, since he measures a being's worth by its capacity for creative labor (he'd probably like Donal if they ever spoke), but he is by no means surprised by it. He's also not going to bother criticizing Stellan over it, given that together they form the peace party where the Bone Ravens are concerned.
Finally, I'm always open to feedback from players about how things are going. So feel free to post here or PM me if there are questions or concerns. (I realize the earlier posts weren't meant to criticize, I'm just trying to make sure you all know the lines are open if there is a need.)
Now who is going to feed...I mean...take down those two spiders? :)
It is not our place to have questions or concerns. Friend GM knows all. Friend GM provides for all. Questions and concerns are for commie mutant traitors.
Seriously, my feeling is that it's not your job to tailor your encounters to us. I never said any encounter you built should be stronger or weaker, and I hope I never will. It is our job as players, now that we've seen and appreciated that encounters with the Bone Ravens are likely to be overpowering (my personal belief is that this is the weakest group of them we're likely to encounter...ever), to deal with that information. As Stellan points out below, given what we know about our objective and who else might be seeking it, we cannot abandon it. As you point out, we don't have any other plot threads to pursue in the meantime. But we cannot keep going forward as we have either. Attempting to solve each encounter like we have here would lead to either Andrei's proposal of short adventuring days, which would let the Black Hats get to the Seed of Life first, or to dead PCs, an outcome nobody wants. And that's assuming we can assure short adventuring days. We probably can't, given that things like the pikkelyuk are about and that there are likely to be Bone Raven patrols.
As for feeding the spiders, well, that's up to them, ain't it?
On the point of party encounters the sandbox aspect is important, sometimes we will need to run. On the other hand failing this mission would be bad. On the gripping hand I wish Thad was still posting, he's the spotlight characte for this one. The encounter has gone better than I expected so far, got very lucky with that sleep spell but we do need some caution now. Getting some info would help.
Yeah, I second the wish for Thad to have continued posting. Without him, only Warren's left from the original party, and his player had a character in Kudos' game. To be perfectly frank, the original party, especially Stephanus and Tityanna, but also Thad, is hard to live up to.
We should probably have this conversation now and it should probably happen in the discussion thread. I took 'interesting factoid' as a similar statement to 'with all due respect'. 'Come now, Andrei's not dense' was also a poor choice of words.
I'm not sure how "interesting factoid" could be taken as a backhanded compliment. It is the factoid, not any person, that is the subject of the sentence that follows. The second example is far more objectionable, in that it's really none of my business how Andrei plays his character. We're scene partners, and nobody, not even the GM, is really the director. Thanks for calling me on that.
This game is quite good. I would match it up against most of the Kingmaker threads on the paizo boards. Before moving over, you had a chance to see what the game was like. I told you it was not Kingmaker, it is Kingmaker taken to a higher level as only a quality DM can.
I would hope this stays friendly and professional. AND, the last person who needs grief is DM Tareth.
Nobody's criticizing the GM here. Nobody's complaining or saying things should be different, though I sometimes want to kick myself for not doing more with the settlers when I had the chance. Wasted opportunity, that was...
It's been great so far, very well thought out events. This is a close encounter and it's not over but we should win now, problem is we have used much of our power and if those goblins get away we will likely face more at night when they are at their strongest and we at our weakest. And it isn't going to get easier unless there are allies to be had here. I'd be surprised just from a campaign design view (A.K.A. Meta-gaming) if there wasn't at least someone looking for allies (dupes?) to help him/it to knock off Tartuk or Akiros or both. And both of them are problebly thinking about when, not if, to put the dagger in the other's back.
The opposition is not unbeatable but we can't take it all head on at once. Thinking about it, overall, we are an offensive team. So many arcanists give us flexibitly and major "Alpha Strike" power. The price is depth and endurance. We wear out quick. So what do we do about that?
But first we have to win this fight.
Well, the thing about allies is that we haven't really been looking for any, have we? Especially since some of us have attitudes about the sort of folks we might find, for example I don't think Warren would really be too happy about the prospect of allying with bandits, goblins or other monstrous humanoids (he may, though, I can't speak for him) and I know that Imon would at the very least drag his feet on the matter.
I'm in another Kingmaker game where we are looking for allies, so far we have a task to perform to gain the favor (or at least nonaggression) of a camp of kobolds and a pair of fae. That game is running a little differently though, for one thing, the Stag Lord is a giant bear, and was deposed by someone else that is now using that title. Akiros is on our side, as well.
It's been great so far, very well thought out events. This is a close encounter and it's not over but we should win now, problem is we have used much of our power and if those goblins get away we will likely face more at night when they are at their strongest and we at our weakest. And it isn't going to get easier unless there are allies to be had here. I'd be surprised just from a campaign design view (A.K.A. Meta-gaming) if there wasn't at least someone looking for allies (dupes?) to help him/it to knock off Tartuk or Akiros or both. And both of them are problebly thinking about when, not if, to put the dagger in the other's back.
Four goblins have already retreated, and there is nothing we can do about that in the context of this encounter. The best we can do is try to catch up with them afterwords. Consider, however, that they don't actually know all that much about us. The first group of two knows next to nothing about what we look like, and the salient point that's going to stick in their minds is the misinformation our group contains an elven necromancer. The second group of two saw everyone but Imon much more clearly, so unlike the first they can give accurate descriptions of what we look like. The exception is that they're going to describe Warren as a human with the talons of an eagle when he doesn't look like that all the time (yet).
I agree that we're going to be hunted, but there are ways of making it less probable that we will be found. Tam, and possibly Thad, can be tasked with laying a false trail leading west. We can try and cover our own tracks, something we haven't bothered with hitherto. And speak for yourself about being weakest at night :P
As for allies, well, I'm gonna indulge in an "I told you so", okay? Unfortunately, our ability to maneuver the Bone Ravens against the Black Hats is going to be severely reduced by the way we handled this fight. From their perspective, we have made our reputations as powerful, ruthless, and most importantly, treacherous. From what they saw, we attacked them in the middle of negotiations. They have no reason to parley with us ever again, because there's not just zero trust between us, like when this encounter began, but actually negative trust. At this point, our best hope for allies is that some of the fey Thad mentioned reveal themselves at some point. I say it's a hope and not a strategy because, fey being fey, there's nothing we can do to make that happen and we can't expect aid even if it does.
That said, we do know of a local notable who is looking to bump off both Tartuk and Akiros. We left her back at the trading post.
The opposition is not unbeatable but we can't take it all head on at once. Thinking about it, overall, we are an offensive team. So many arcanists give us flexibitly and major "Alpha Strike" power. The price is depth and endurance. We wear out quick. So what do we do about that?
But first we have to win this fight.
Let us draw some wisdom from the Discworld: the best way to put magic to use is not to use magic. For instance, we learn from this fight that buffing AC when fighting the Bone Ravens is a waste of spell slots. They make heavy use of area attacks and touch attacks, and their attacks vs. AC don't do much damage. We both devoted a third of our spell slots to buffing AC, and it's done us literally no good at all. The flipside of being caster-heavy is that we are not locked into one strategy. We don't have to bull into our problems head on.
Well, the thing about allies is that we haven't really been looking for any, have we? Especially since some of us have attitudes about the sort of folks we might find, for example I don't think Warren would really be too happy about the prospect of allying with bandits, goblins or other monstrous humanoids (he may, though, I can't speak for him) and I know that Imon would at the very least drag his feet on the matter.
Well, that's the problem, isn't it? As a group, we never did decide whether we were going to look for allies or not, and the one discussion that came closest was cut short in favor of GRAHH, KILL KILL KILL.
The original group parleyed and backed each other up where appropriate. They negotiated with a warg and reformed most of the bandits. They took seriously their obligation to defend the settlers and make their land safe. There is no reason the 'new group' can't do the same.
But first, let's act like a group.
Warren is not going to want to push on from the fortified camp given the resources expended to take it until the group is fully rested.
The original group parleyed and backed each other up where appropriate. They negotiated with a warg and reformed most of the bandits. They took seriously their obligation to defend the settlers and make their land safe. There is no reason the 'new group' can't do the same.
The implication being that this group doesn't take seriously their obligations to the settlers and the land? I don't see it. We met the settlers two days ago. One of them gave us a task, explained that it was in the service of people and land, and we have pursued its completion with singleminded determination since. What else should we have done?
But first, let's act like a group.
Yes. Let's.
Warren is not going to want to push on from the fortified camp given the resources expended to take it until the group is fully rested.
Unacceptable. It's eleven o'clock in the morning, and we can't afford to spend the nine hours it would take to regain hit points and spells, let alone the twenty-one hours til the next sunrise, holding the camp. We can't afford to spend resources holding it against any conceivable assault - and it is against the camp, whose location and layout are known, that such an assault will fall hardest. We should tear the platforms out of the trees to deny them to anyone else, take the cannons if possible and smash them if not, question the prisoners and decide what to do with them, then move on as quickly as we can.
A quick warning. I am away this weekend at a games conference, I should be able to post short replies in the evening but please don't let my slow posts hold up the game.
Well, I promised you an AAR, and there it is. I also have statistics if anybody wants them.
As I'm still trying to get a feel for how this very arcane group works, I would love to see the stats on the fight, just don't spend too much time on it, have fun, first, last and always.
Sooo many things to go over I think I'll have Stellan try to keep it simple. First though, as far as I know Stellan wasn't promised anything with the possible exception that: "Promise, with the politics as they are, I can't, right now, promise you anything. You have my word on that." Swordlord Terico to Stellan. I do not recall, and don't feel like rereading many posts, about the promises made to the other charter-bearers. Has anyone been promised Lordship or right to rule, or just hints, or nothing at all, or is it rumors, or something else altogether?
Of course it's a bit early to care about that since we have a very long way to go, we aren't even half way through adventure one; I do not think we will see a kingdom born this real time year.
As to a designated leader, back in the old days of first joining the Kudo's group, Stellan asked who was leader, everyone and no one was. He hasn't brought it up since. He also doesn't much care. I'll post after some responses to this discussion post. I'll ask a specific question though, as players how do we want field leadership to go? We can play our characters one way but want them to lose the argument because a different way looks better to the player. That is meta-gaming of course but everybody does it now and then to make the game run smooth. This may be one of those times. If you (and most of all the DM) do not want me to approach the situation any other way than through my character though, I'll work with that just fine.
As a player I don't mind, Andrei kind of assumes the role of leader even if he isn't just because that is what he is used to (natural-born leader trait). I, as a player, will have fun stepping on the toes of the real leader or wielding power. The only out of character concern is Andrei is rather anti Bravoi under its current ruler, which means he will look almost anywhere for allies before turning to Bravoi.
Sooo many things to go over I think I'll have Stellan try to keep it simple. First though, as far as I know Stellan wasn't promised anything with the possible exception that: "Promise, with the politics as they are, I can't, right now, promise you anything. You have my word on that." Swordlord Terico to Stellan. I do not recall, and don't feel like rereading many posts, about the promises made to the other charter-bearers. Has anyone been promised Lordship or right to rule, or just hints, or nothing at all, or is it rumors, or something else altogether?
Here, for comparison, are the charters received by the original group and Imon, and the charters received by the new group. Differences are indicated by bold text:
Be it so known that the bearer of this charter has been charged by the Swordlords of Restov, acting upon the greater good and authority vested within them by the office of the Regent of the Dragonscale Throne, has granted the right of exploration and travel within the wilderness region known as the Greenbelt. Exploration should be limited to an area no further than thirty-six miles east and west and sixty miles south of Oleg’s Trading Post. The carrier of this charter should also strive against banditry and other unlawful behavior to be encountered. The punishment for unrepentant banditry remains, as always, execution by sword or rope. The bearer is also charged with the responsibility and duty of protecting and administering the law among those Brevic citizens who have been given authority to settle within the area covered by this charter.
So witnessed on this 24th day of Calistril, under watchful eye of the Lordship of Restov and authority granted by Lord Noleski Surtova, current Regent of the Dragonscale Throne.
Be it so known that the bearer of this charter has been charged by the Swordlords of Restov, acting upon the greater good and authority vested within them by the office of the Regent of the Dragonscale Throne, has granted the right of exploration and travel within the wilderness region known as the Greenbelt. Exploration should be limited to an area no further than thirty-six miles east and west and sixty miles south of Oleg’s Trading Post. The carrier of this charter should also strive against banditry and other unlawful behavior to be encountered. The punishment for unrepentant banditry remains, as always, execution by sword or rope.
So witnessed on this 24th day of Calistril, under watchful eye of the Lordship of Restov and authority granted by Lord Noleski Surtova, current Regent of the Dragonscale Throne.
In summary, both charters grant the following rights and responsibilities:
-to travel within and map the northern Greenbelt;
-to act as judge, jury, and executioner among those indigenous to the Greenbelt who are hostis humani generis, especially bandits.
The original charter grants the further right and responsibility to administer preexisting Brevic laws as they apply to Brevic citizens (i.e., the settlers) within the Greenbelt. Officially, no charter bearer has more than police power. I believe this was also the conclusion reached by Tityanna, Kams, and Stephanus. The creation of a new polity, especially with laws, loyalties, and practices that are not Brevoy's, is in no way implied by these documents. Personally, I support the creation of just such a new polity, but at this point, that's just a desire of some of us charter bearers and maybe some among the settlers, nothing more and nothing less.
As for leadership in the moment, OOC I believe it should go to a PC expected to be reasonably active. For me, that narrows the field to Andrei, Anwel, Imon, Stellan, and Warren. If pressed, Anwel will back Andrei, who's at least good at it, or Stellan, whose politics are the closest to Anwel's. Anwel knows better than to try to seek leadership himself: he's too much of a gadfly to get any support.
Funny people mention Imon as a possible leader, especially with reference to being a lawman. Especially considering that he's neutral good, he's not exactly the avatar of truth and justice some folks seem to think, so much as he's a hanging judge, more concerned with his own sense of justice than any official law. That is why he will do things like cutting throats of unconscious bandits that he thinks don't deserve the chance at redemption, or be perfectly satisfied with butchering every goblin, bugbear or other monstrous humanoid they come across.
Considering the nature of Kingmaker though, I am a little more inclined to soften up that disdain for monstrous races, and maybe throw in a little more tolerance for bandits, though that one is less likely.
By the way, Imon has basically the same idea about asking Brevoy for help as Andrei, though for a very different reason. Imon has no problem the the government or governance of the current ruler, it isn't that he doesn't want their help, it's that he thinks it's not available whether they want it or not. He thinks that if they are so unable to handle the situation that they have resorted to sending what amounts to mercenaries in to retake the Stolen Lands, then what possible assistance could the offer if the charters find themselves in need?
Thanks Anwel, that does rise the question did our charters change to match the others, when we came over? It won't change anything I've said or done in the past but I could influence my next post and later actions.
At my next game post, when the DM answers the above question, I'll have Stellan address the monster issue directly.
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Gorax is not a leader, he knows that life is tough and hasn't had much to do with the monstrous races. As such, so for him if they attack and treat him as an enemy, then he treats them as such. He uses his fists rather than his tongue. Also he doesn't really understand magic either, and is a bit suspicious of magic users, but after his time in the watch likes to follow command structures, especially if the leader is a warrior, skilled with weapons.
That's how i'm hoping to play Gorax ....
Oh is definitely uncomfortable around Imon.
Thanks Anwel, that does rise the question did our charters change to match the others, when we came over? It won't change anything I've said or done in the past but I could influence my next post and later actions.
Wow, this introduces a new twist. . .I think I'm going to sit back and wait until tomorrow to see how everyone else responds before I have Imon respond and become even more of 'that guy'.
Wow, this introduces a new twist. . .I think I'm going to sit back and wait until tomorrow to see how everyone else responds before I have Imon respond and become even more of 'that guy'.
Shame I don't have the same chance (:
Will post soonish
Wow, this introduces a new twist. . .I think I'm going to sit back and wait until tomorrow to see how everyone else responds before I have Imon respond and become even more of 'that guy'.
:D
Well, it had to happen eventually. Might as well be now.
@DM-Tareth Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
Bomb dropped, I'll let Andrei post, not least because I need a little time to digest all this and let it percolate through my feeble player's brain.
Stellan certainly had some vague ideas' about Anwel but wasn't focusing in on it.
Just background stuff checks, I';ll make here for convenience.
Knowledge:Arcane Umbral Court, ShadowCountess Dima.
Knowledge:Arcane Vale of Shadows, interested groups, Do I know about Arcil? Do I know enough to ask the question of myself?
Knowledge:History Nidal, Umbral Court, Shadowcountess Dima, role of other relevant VIP's in history.
Knowledge:History Vale of Shadows, historical VIP's, Is Arcil's important role mentioned?
I think that covers it, but Stellan knows both more and less than his player... :)
Good rolls mostly. Please let me know what Stellan knows. Thanks.
Same procedure as the last time Stellan started making checks about me. I'll answer, put the answers in spoilers for Tareth, who can add or subtract information as necessary.
The Umbral Court are, for the most part, mages proficient at manipulating shadowstuff and clerics devoted to Zon-Kuthon. It is quite likely that one such as Dima would have the powers Anwel describes.
Anwel has alluded to the Vale of Shadows before, and as far as you know it is as he says it is: a place where the boundary between the mortal realm and the Shadow Plane is thin. You surmise that in such places shadow magic is stronger, more "real".
Nidal has been ruled by the Umbral Court since Earthfall, with a brief interregnum during the Everwar - Cheliax's conquest of and rule over Nidal and parts of Varisia. It is said that Zon-Kuthon granted the Umbral Court their powers in response to Nidal's desperation at Earthfall. You have never heard of Dima before; she is probably not that high-ranking.
You know that about twenty years ago a shadow mage named Athalos who lived in western Galt was killed by a group of adventurers including a wizard named Arcil.