Sword and board fighters were already fighting an uphill battle for the role of tank with the Champion class around. Now that we have the Guardian class too, is there really any point in trying to tank as a fighter over going for one of those two classes, or an entirely different role (such as a two-handed reach bruiser or archer)?
Mind you, I don't think we should take Shield Block away from Fighters or anything like that; I rather kind of like that they are so versatile.
I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Someone who'd like to take shield based feats AND have fighter tier weapon proficiency?
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I think that the two weapon fighting with shield spikes or a shield boss with a fighter can’t really be matched, by the champion or the guardian so it is less of a tank than a damage dealer that can soak more retaliatory damage than anyone else.
I had a shield fighter with a returning hatchet that was pretty good at attacking a lot and taking maximum advantage of a bard’s courageous anthem. Your attacks with the shield are only as accurate as other martials much of the time, but with the reactive shield feat chain you are way better off than dual handed parrying.
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I don't think shields are all that worthwhile in the first place. They're too much of a burden on action economy until you have quick shield block and paragon guard.
If damage mitigation/sustain is your concern the party can just build the melee to have champion archetype for LoH and the reaction or blessed one for just LoH.
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I think that the two weapon fighting with shield spikes or a shield boss with a fighter can’t really be matched, by the champion or the guardian so it is less of a tank than a damage dealer that can soak more retaliatory damage than anyone else.
I had a shield fighter with a returning hatchet that was pretty good at attacking a lot and taking maximum advantage of a bard’s courageous anthem. Your attacks with the shield are only as accurate as other martials much of the time, but with the reactive shield feat chain you are way better off than dual handed parrying.
This. Sword and Board fighters are not "tanks" the way Champions and Guardians are. They're offensive front liners with more survivability. It hasn't really changed much in that regard. The build works, though it's very action intensive until you get options to help with that (like extra reactions for reactive shield or Paragon's Guard).
It's not the most popular Fighter build these days in my experience, but it's capable enough to work if you play it.
Yeah, the actual role of shields in historical combat is not purely protection- people used them as weapons regularly. If you want to be the Viking warrior who uses their shield as a weapon as much as their axe the fighter is a fine choice (you just run into an issue with "shield" being its own weapon group.)
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Personally, I quite like the range of options for sword and board these days.
Fighters get all the cool tricks. Thaumaturges (with Shield Implement) do quite competitive damage. Guardians are the tankiest of tanky tanks. And Champions still do lots and lots of damage vs fiends and undead while being tanky and very able to mitigate damage for their party.
All play differently. All are quite viable contributors to the group. They all scratch slightly different itches.
I think the class that may be hurting the most for sword and board is the ranger.
Yes.
No.
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It depends on their Dying value.
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Are shield fighters dead?
No, they still work really well. Always have, and nothing has stopped them.
Are shield fighters dead as tanks?
No, they still have tools to do some decent work in that role.
Are there things more purpose-built as tanks that lean harder into that role than a shield fighter?
Yes, absolutely.
Doesn't that mean shield fighter is dead?
Of course not, why would you ever think that things work that way?
Why would you ever think that things work that way?
I are a simple man.