What are everyone's predictions for the psychic remaster?
It could go a lot of ways, they might not even really change it all that much. However, I lean towards the refocus changes necessitating something more for psychics.
Psychic is ultimately a two slot caster with buffed cantrips, good focus spells, and two turns of psychic rage damage. Compared to how light some caster chassis are it miiiight really justify the missing 3rd spell slot. Hell, the necromancer is continuing the trend with board control and good focus spells costing that 3rd slot.
I think what the psychic offers is way more interesting than what the druid or witch have to offer, but I can't shake the feeling that something needs a bit more to justify cutting the spellcasting by one third.
Maybe psychic not being stupified after unleash. Or maybe unleash lasting a third turn. Maybe changing the cool thematic psychic feats to not be AOEs that harm allies as much as enemies.
What are y'all's thoughts?
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My guesses are:
Given that the Dark Archive remaster is likely to follow the same constraints as for Guns & Gears, i.e. by preserving page formatting and count, I'm not expecting radical changes. However, even so there is room to improve the Psychic by quite a bit and bring them up to modern design standards.
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Not predicting but hoping:
-the bell and chalice implements get warranted buffs.
-Amulet might need a tweak as well with it competing with the new shield implement.
-One More Activation could use a bit more clarity on if it can be used once per day, absolutely or per item.
-Thaumaturge's Demense could do without having its location locked down as well and maybe just have it automatically upgrade to gain Unlimited Demense effects. I don't think anyone was ever taking those feats, especially the later at level 20.
Pretty much what Teridax said. I don't expect anything for the thaumaturge because that class is in an already solid spot even though I agree it has issues in some places. However, it wouldn't be that weird if Paizo somehow ended up buffing the thaumaturge and leaving the psychic as is because similar things certainly happened before. In that casei, I suggest the chalice's 10 limit cooldown to either be removed or the healing increased, the bell probably shouldn't require a save (thus the intensify vulnerability effect should be changed, and since we are it, move its effect to the Cursed Effigy feat to have the -3 penalty if you crit against the target), and lantern...please do something with it. I find weird that lantern being the iconic's implement feels so bland. I hope some feats get tweaks too since I feel its one of the few weak spots of the class. If you don't want talismans or scrolls then you are kinda left without options.
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I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.
I hope they make Unleashed Psyche feats work a ton better. They were never used in my games because that extra action was hard to work in while Unleashed Psyche was active making feats keyed off Unleash Psyche pretty unattractive.
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I suggest the chalice's 10 limit cooldown to either be removed or the healing increased
My biggest issue with chalice is the adept ability is SO limited in application (only lasts a turn and only triggers from bleeding or a crit from slashing or piercing?...REALLY!?) and I think a similar effect to the paragon ability, managing/curing debuffs, should just replace the adept ability. Maybe increase amount of uses of drinking to 3 or something for paragon.
the bell probably shouldn't require a save (thus the intensify vulnerability effect should be changed, and since we are it, move its effect to the Cursed Effigy feat to have the -3 penalty if you crit against the target)
I don't mind the save since it targets what is likely the creature's lowest save...but I'd take it. I'd prefer removing the mental trait. It increases usability a smidge, plus the thaumaturge should be able ignore any logical reasoning like the mental trait. A bell symbolizing the a death knell should be adequate to doom ANY undead to true death, regardless of intelligence. Otherwise, yeah, the bell just needs more interesting improvements and the intensify effect is fairly lame and redundant with Cursed Effigy.
lantern...I don't know, do something with it. I find weird that lantern being the iconic's implement feels so bland and boring.
Personally, I love lantern as is. I've been able to spot so many traps and secret doors just from the initiate ability. Detecting invisible creatures later is nice. Maybe the paragon could use a boost...but I like it a lot already, overall.
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I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.
Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
Same. A separate set of Psychic pool abilities would be cool. But likely too much for a reprint. Not unless they are really wanting to go the Witch/Alchemist route.
For Psychic, I am thinking some tweaks to how Focus points are initially given and recharged with Refocus. Maybe getting a 3rd spell slot because that would be an easier and less page space fix than trying to rework a bunch of other stuff.
For Thaumaturge, a rewording of the Implement Swap ability to let it work properly for all Implements rather than just some of them.
I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
Psychic is one of the classes that needs some serious improvements. With what they did with the oracle and witch, not sure why they would redo the psychic to keep them pretty much the same.
I expect pretty massive changes to the psychic as it doesn't play very well.
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I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
Psychic is one of the classes that needs some serious improvements. With what they did with the oracle and witch, not sure why they would redo the psychic to keep them pretty much the same.
I expect pretty massive changes to the psychic as it doesn't play very well.
Oracle and Witch aren't the point of comparison, though. They got new books, and this is not a new book. Guns & Gears is the actual point of comparison- no new book name, everybody who owned the PDF received a free updated copy, and very few things changed. Inventor was in a similar boat to Psychic, and only received some small number tweaks that allowed it to be changed without changing any page numbers.
"The only reason to redo the books is to make substantial changes" is the premise I don't agree with. It's being redone because it was under OGL license, and did things like mention owlbears, alignment, flat-footed, and other odds-and-ends that need cleaning up in the move to ORC. So, a little more substantial than a usual reprint cycle, but less significant than Player Core 1 or 2.
I echo posters commenting that given this is not a new book in the way that PC1 and PC2 were (and which free from constraints of being a “new print of an old book, allowed for major changes to classes therein), but more an updating/“remastering” of an existing book to comply with OGL/ORC needs. Page counts will likely remain the same and so major mechanical tweaks are unlikely, as we saw with the Inventor still being fairly substandard even after a “Remaster”.
TL;DR: major changes are *not* the goal; this is not a *new* book.
Prepare to be underwhelmed and to pay full price for it if you haven’t bought it before.
My guesses are:
The Psychic will have the limitations removed on their improved Focus Point recovery.
Unleash Psyche will have its duration extended and its self-stupefy removed.
Some of their underperforming options, such as certain psi cantrips and feats, will be buffed. Given that the Dark Archive remaster is likely to follow the same constraints as for Guns & Gears, i.e. by preserving page formatting and count, I'm not expecting radical changes. However, even so there is room to improve the Psychic by quite a bit and bring them up to modern design standards.
My guesses are these too with the increment to 3 or even 4 spellslots per rank too.
As many pointed, due to the remaster changes both making it easier to improve the focus pool size and refocus and due to how classes like oracles, sorcerers got a significant boost with the fact that they probably won't make any changes into the book design I would except similar heavy improvements in currently class mechanics.
elemental/phoenix bloodline to get a similar extra damage vs a single target even if you get a different bloodline due to the Crossblooded Evolution changes.
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As much as we've seen a lot of spell slot creep since the remaster, I feel increasing the Psychic's spell slots would be the wrong buff for the class: the point of the Psychic isn't that they have the spell slot output of a Bard, the point is that they're meant to have this inexhaustible supply of amps that they can use to rival slot spells in power, with a few slot spells to throw around when the occasion calls for it. I'd much rather tweak psi cantrips and improve the Psychic's focus pool from the very beginning so that they can accomplish this mechanical goal.
For this reason, I'd also want the Psychic's multiclass archetype to no longer give out amps: amps really are the core of the Psychic's power, and with the remaster's changes to spell proficiency and Refocusing, all it takes is for the MC archetype to offer one or two for another class to be able to cast those amped psi cantrips at full power three times per encounter, just like the Psychic. It's one of the reasons why a Sorcerer can easily become a better Psychic just by poaching the best bits of the class and then having four spell slots per rank and all of the other benefits, but it's also way too synergistic with the Magus, to a degree where any Magus build with imaginary weapon will perform much, much better at their core function of Spellstriking than any Magus build without it. Making amps exclusive to the main Psychic class would protect their niche much better, and would also help reveal the real state of the Magus as well, such that if the latter class underperforms without the MC archetype, they'd be much more able to receive the help they need.
I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
Psychic is one of the classes that needs some serious improvements. With what they did with the oracle and witch, not sure why they would redo the psychic to keep them pretty much the same.
I expect pretty massive changes to the psychic as it doesn't play very well.
Oracle and Witch aren't the point of comparison, though. They got new books, and this is not a new book. Guns & Gears is the actual point of comparison- no new book name, everybody who owned the PDF received a free updated copy, and very few things changed. Inventor was in a similar boat to Psychic, and only received some small number tweaks that allowed it to be changed without changing any page numbers.
"The only reason to redo the books is to make substantial changes" is the premise I don't agree with. It's being redone because it was under OGL license, and did things like mention owlbears, alignment, flat-footed, and other odds-and-ends that need cleaning up in the move to ORC. So, a little more substantial than a usual reprint cycle, but less significant than Player Core 1 or 2.
That won't make for a very good psychic.
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Things that I think can be improved on the psychic, without really tripping over changing page count;
- Change a few words in the various emanation feats and spells so they no longer cause friendly fire. The psychic does not have the class chassis to run into melee alone. But if a typical round 2 of a combat is that enemies have closed into melee for the front row martials, the psychic unleashes, and then uses nasty emanations that hit those enemies, that's kinda neat.
- Either unleashing needs to be much more potent, or the stupefy afterward needs to go away. A cooldown of 1-2 rounds without Stupefied would be acceptable.
- For psychic to be "the cantrip class", the cantrips just need to do a whole lot more. If you compare to a dragon sorcerer, their breath weapon scales up at 2d6 per spell rank. And they can get focus back easily and do this 1-3x every encounter. Encounters generally don't last long enough for "yeah but cantrips don't run out" to really matter compared to "you need to make real impact in the first few rounds". Maybe psychics need their own flavor of Sorcerous Potency that only applies to cantrips, but gives them a big enough damage boost that they're really competitive.
A more streamlined version of this would be (but harder to smuggle in without changing page references):
- Psychic Potency is always-on and causes the damage of psychic cantrips to be close to spell-from-slot amounts. Something in the direction of +4 per spell rank. Maybe even more.
- Unleash Psyche gets cut entirely. The psyche trait on various abilities just requires that you cast a psychic spell on your previous turn.
- Again, the emanation spells and feats should not cause friendly fire.
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I would love to see an implémentation of risk/reward with unleash psyche like:
- You can start unleashing psyche whenever you want.
- When your psyche is unleashed, you suffer your level/2 d6 as Spirit damage, unmitigated, increasing by 1d6 every round.
- You can stop your psyche whenever and are fatigued
- During unleash psyche, you have unlimited focus points
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That won't make for a very good psychic.I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
Psychic is one of the classes that needs some serious improvements. With what they did with the oracle and witch, not sure why they would redo the psychic to keep them pretty much the same.
I expect pretty massive changes to the psychic as it doesn't play very well.
Oracle and Witch aren't the point of comparison, though. They got new books, and this is not a new book. Guns & Gears is the actual point of comparison- no new book name, everybody who owned the PDF received a free updated copy, and very few things changed. Inventor was in a similar boat to Psychic, and only received some small number tweaks that allowed it to be changed without changing any page numbers.
"The only reason to redo the books is to make substantial changes" is the premise I don't agree with. It's being redone because it was under OGL license, and did things like mention owlbears, alignment, flat-footed, and other odds-and-ends that need cleaning up in the move to ORC. So, a little more substantial than a usual reprint cycle, but less significant than Player Core 1 or 2.
And the Inventor remaster didn't make a substantial change to the class either - these books are being remastered primarily so they can keep being sold, they're not being changed substantially.
I'd love it if the psychic could keep its niche as a focus caster with some slots on the side - for changes that could fit in the word count, maybe extending Unleash Psyche's duration by a round and giving you a focus point/letting you cast one amp without spending focus while you're in it could be a solid addition to try and maintain psychic's niche.
Doesn't help that the Oracle now has a damage ability that does unleash psyche damage that is easier to use and apply.
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Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?I think they will build the psychic like the new Oracle with a third resource pool that keys off their psychic abilities. I think that fits the class much better as well.Feels unlikely given the constraints on updates to these books. I'm thinking closer to "tweaks" than "major functional changes."
You mean aside from the precedent of Inventor in Guns & Gears and that Paizo told us that page counts/layouts aren't changing in these reprints?
This is only being done at all because the book is out of stock, and to reprint it, they need a non-OGL version. That's it. That's the real "only reason to do this."
This is not a Player Core situation where it's a new book and wholesale changes are being made. Expecting that is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Psychic is one of the classes that needs some serious improvements. With what they did with the oracle and witch, not sure why they would redo the psychic to keep them pretty much the same.
It does, but I doubt it's going to get it. The business model is putting out new books, and this isn't a new book.
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As much as we've seen a lot of spell slot creep since the remaster, I feel increasing the Psychic's spell slots would be the wrong buff for the class: the point of the Psychic isn't that they have the spell slot output of a Bard, the point is that they're meant to have this inexhaustible supply of amps that they can use to rival slot spells in power, with a few slot spells to throw around when the occasion calls for it. I'd much rather tweak psi cantrips and improve the Psychic's focus pool from the very beginning so that they can accomplish this mechanical goal.
For this reason, I'd also want the Psychic's multiclass archetype to no longer give out amps: amps really are the core of the Psychic's power, and with the remaster's changes to spell proficiency and Refocusing, all it takes is for the MC archetype to offer one or two for another class to be able to cast those amped psi cantrips at full power three times per encounter, just like the Psychic. It's one of the reasons why a Sorcerer can easily become a better Psychic just by poaching the best bits of the class and then having four spell slots per rank and all of the other benefits, but it's also way too synergistic with the Magus, to a degree where any Magus build with imaginary weapon will perform much, much better at their core function of Spellstriking than any Magus build without it. Making amps exclusive to the main Psychic class would protect their niche much better, and would also help reveal the real state of the Magus as well, such that if the latter class underperforms without the MC archetype, they'd be much more able to receive the help they need.
I agree. In fact, I'm even more aggressive. IMO, psychic was limited designed and never should use spellslots at all. It was designed in this way probably because when the Dark Archives were written, the designers wanted to avoid a creation of an entire new rule system for psychic. But after RoE and successful of kineticists impulses, they noticed that they don't really need to stay inside this limitation. If DA was to release now after RoE probably we would have a very different class that we have today with the designers being more bold with the system mechanics like they are being with runesmith.
But now this won't happen. Without an entire new book with an entire new layout, we already saw in currently remastered G&G and TV that the designers will not make large changes and inside the currently tools that we have space to use to improve the class the increase of the number of spellslots probably is one of few tools that we have.
I know that this would make the class looks like more a generic occult sorcerer variation like happened to oracles but in this case specifically it's this or a defensive chassis improvement that IMO would be even worse solution that would make it even more generic.
About archetype, I understand the problem. Probably the easiest solution is to remove the AMP ability from the archetype and add more psy cantrips instead, but IMO the concern is not really about AMP but in Magus using Imaginary Weapon.
Imaginary Weapon AMP is a powerful focus spell but also very risk for most casters, including MC sorcerers and wizards because it requires that the caster are in melee risking triggering a reaction that will damage and maybe cancel the casting or are extending the spell range using a spellshape what effectively makes it a 3-action spell and diminishes it efficiency. Even a War Mage MC with psychic archetype going to front line is very risk than stay at range cast some potent 2-action 2d6 per rank or more spell and complete the 3rd action with some 1-action spell, Sustain or ranged weapon attack that will make it play in a safer position and stronger DPR positioning. Also pure psychics have the advantage of use Unleash and psyche benefits to still use Imaginary Weapon stronger than other classes using it via MC.
What makes the IW OP is when we use a magus that have a martial chassis using its SpellStrike attack bonuses to do a merge of Imaginary Weapon damage + physical weapon damage in a far safer distance of a bow range.
In practice is a problem of how good is the combination of Magus and Imaginary Weapon not is really about the archetype being able to use AMPs in general.
IMO a more elegant solution, to changing the IW than the entire archetype. Just make IW a d6 ranged spell attack or save spell. This already would break all this benefic magus integration. This way it wouldn't better than a Fire Ray for the Magus and would be a safer spell for pure psychics.
I would love to see an implémentation of risk/reward with unleash psyche like:
- You can start unleashing psyche whenever you want.
- When your psyche is unleashed, you suffer your level/2 d6 as Spirit damage, unmitigated, increasing by 1d6 every round.
- You can stop your psyche whenever and are fatigued
- During unleash psyche, you have unlimited focus points
This looks like to how the playtest unleash was originally designed.
A psychic who taxes their abilities to the limit thins the barrier between their inner mind and the outer world, truly unleashing their psychic power. However, this state also causes one or more aspects of your mentality to become exaggerated or exposed to outside influence.
When you Unleash your psyche, it lasts for 3 rounds, and during this time, you can amp one psi cantrip each round without paying the Focus Point cost. Each psyche action has requirements you must meet to Unleash your psyche, and each typically also has an additional effect and a drawback while that aspect of your psyche is unleashed. Other rules for while your psyche is Unleashed are described in the psyche trait on page 8.
While you might later learn of other aspects of your psyche, all psychics know how to Unleash Focused Intent.UNLEASH FOCUSED INTENT [1-action]
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Traits: Psyche, Psychic
Requirements It’s your third turn of the encounter or later.
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After some time of acclimating to a stressful situation, your psychic magic flares to greater destructive power.
Benefit When you Cast a Spell from your spell slots while you
have Unleashed Focused Intent, you gain a status bonus to that spell’s damage equal to double the spell’s level as long as spell deals damage and doesn’t have a duration.
Drawback The focus on offense comes at the expense of your defensive instincts. You take a –2 penalty to AC while you’ve Unleashed Focused Intent.UNLEASH SELF‑DEFENSE [1-action] - Feat 1
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Traits: Psyche, Psychic
Requirements You’ve cast two beneficial spells on yourself
or an ally this encounter, each on a different round.
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The conflict‑averse aspects of your personality float calmly to the surface, causing your mind to subconsciously deflect incoming attacks, though this comes at the cost of reduced fatal intent behind your spells.
Benefit While this psyche is Unleashed, you gain a +1 status bonus to your AC and to one saving throw of your choice, decided when you Unleash your psyche. All of your spells that don’t have the death trait gain the nonlethal trait.
Drawback The pacifist influence on your mind makes it difficult for your spells to strike a killing blow. You take a penalty to spell damage rolls equal to the level of the spell, and you take a –1 penalty to spell attack rolls and DC of any spell that deals damage or otherwise affects the target’s health or Hit Points (including those that apply the drained condition, disease or poison the target, or kill the target).UNLEASH CALCULATED REASONING [1-action] - Feat 6
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Traits: Psyche, Psychic
Prerequisites precise discipline subconscious mind
Requirements You’ve cast two damaging spells since rolling initiative, each on a different round.
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Your mind overflows with the calculated confidence that all results should be exactly what you’ve determined them to be.
Benefit While this psyche is Unleashed, when you would roll damage for a spell, you can instead choose to deal half the spell’s maximum damage instead of rolling. (This is the full damage and is still halved on a half damage result, doubled on a double damage result, and so on.)
Drawback Unlike other psyches, Unleash Calculated Reasoning has no drawback. You’ve taken everything into account and canceled all of the drawbacks out.UNLEASH SOARING PASSIONS [1-action] - Feat 6
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Traits: Psyche, Psychic
Prerequisites emotional acceptance subconscious mind
Requirements You’ve used two emotion effects since rolling initiative, each on a different round.
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Your power crests with each victory and ebbs with each setback.
Benefit While this psyche is unleashed, if you succeed at a spell attack roll, you gain a +2 status bonus to your next spell attack roll, and if an enemy fails its save against your spell, it takes a –2 status penalty to the next save they attempt against one of your spells. This bonus or penalty lasts until the end of your next turn.
Drawback While this psyche is Unleashed, when you fail at a spell attack roll, you take a –1 penalty to your next spell attack roll; if an enemy succeeds at its save against your spell, they gain a +1 status bonus to the next save they attempt against one of your spells. This penalty or bonus lasts until the end of your next turn.UNLEASH DARK PERSONA [1-action] - Feat 10
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Traits: Psyche, Psychic
Requirements The same enemy has damaged you on at least two of its turns in this encounter.
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Your rage and pain coalesce into your dark persona, the portion of your psyche dedicated to cruel and immediate retribution.
Benefit Your focus narrows on the enemy who damaged you; if multiple enemies have damaged you on at least two turns, select one. Whenever you deal damage to the selected enemy with a spell that doesn’t have a duration, you gain a status bonus to the damage equal to the spell level, or double the spell level if you cast the spell from your spell slots. Additionally, you gain temporary Hit Points equal to the spell’s level that last until the beginning of your next turn.
[b]Drawback Your dark persona is focused on destroying your hated foe and pays little attention to other foes or your allies. While your dark persona is unleashed, you can’t cast beneficial spells on your allies, and you take a –1 penalty to your checks and DCs against targets other than your chosen foe. If you defeat the selected enemy, your dark
persona ends even if the psyche’s duration hasn’t passed.UNLEASH IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION [1-action] - Feat 12
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Traits: Psyche, Psychic
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You can push your mind immediately into an overloaded state, though doing so accelerates your mental strain.
Benefit You gain the basic benefits of having your psyche unleashed, allowing you to amp focus spells without paying the cost, but you gain no specific benefits beyond that.
Drawback Prematurely pushing yourself into an overloaded state leaves your mind struggling to catch up. You’re stupefied 1 for the duration of your Unleashed psyche, and you can’t remove or mitigate this condition in any way.UNLEASH POLTERGEIST PHENOMENA [1-action] - Feat 16
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Traits: Aura, Evocation, Psyche, Psychic
Requirements You’ve cast two evocation spells that affect an area since rolling initiative, each on a different round.
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When your mind is unleashed, so is your sense of control, spilling psychic energies forth in an indiscriminate maelstrom.
Benefit While this psyche is Unleashed, you gain an aura of telekinetically whirling debris in a 15‑foot emanation. Any creature that starts its turn in the aura takes 1d4 damage for every 2 levels you have, with a basic Reflex save against your spell DC. The damage is generally bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage based on the environment (for example, slashing damage if used near a glass window, bludgeoning damage if used in a cobblestone street). The GM might decide that other types of damage are applicable in rarer environments.
Drawback You aren’t immune to the chaos of your power. You must be included in the aura of this psyche and must save against it as normal.
I played this playtest psychic and IMO this playtest version was way better mechanically and thematically than currently Unleash Psyche. But probably due to it made the usage of focus spells much more frequently than any other options in that time and due to the higher complexity of the class the designers chosen to turn the Unleash in the current version that we have today that.
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I do not think any of what I am about to say will actually happen, but my wish list would be this:
Open up page space by cutting the DA Adventures. I have run a few of them, and they are really good, but this would allow player-facing things like Deviant Powers to have more space, it would allow cryptid stat blocks, which would be more useful, and it would allow a rework of Psychic.
For Psychic itself, I'd like to see it go to a 1 subclass class, and I'd like to see IW be made a class feature around level 10, so that it cannot be poached. I could be wrong, but I think people bounce off the complexity of Psychic, and I don't think its power level justifies that complexity.
Yuri's idea of a new casting system for it would also be possible with the extra pages opened up in this idea, but again, I do not think that will happen. It's just wishful thinking.
I played this playtest psychic and IMO this playtest version was way better mechanically and thematically than currently Unleash Psyche. But probably due to it made the usage of focus spells much more frequently than any other options in that time and due to the higher complexity of the class the designers chosen to turn the Unleash in the current version that we have today that.
Wow, I'm sorry I missed that, it looked fun !
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Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
The remasters of existing books are being done in the place of regular reprints. That's why it's been semi-random. All the remastered non-core books are is special errata.
In addition We can look at treasure vault and guns and gears to see that anything that's going to require a lot of new or altered text is unlikely.
This happens with each book and people need to stop getting their hopes up that the reprint is going to fix whatever pain point they have, because Paizo have been pretty clear that's not what they're doing here.
Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
The remasters of existing books are being done in the place of regular reprints. That's why it's been semi-random. All the remastered non-core books are is special errata.
In addition We can look at treasure vault and guns and gears to see that anything that's going to require a lot of new or altered text is unlikely.
This happens with each book and people need to stop getting their hopes up that the reprint is going to fix whatever pain point they have, because Paizo have been pretty clear that's not what they're doing here.
Idk, the gunslinger changes weren't exactly nothing. The class got a nice bump, so wondering if the psychic would land on the gunslinger end or inventor end of the remaster spectrum doesn't seem like a baseless speculation.
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Idk, the gunslinger changes weren't exactly nothing. The class got a nice bump, so wondering if the psychic would land on the gunslinger end or inventor end of the remaster spectrum doesn't seem like a baseless speculation.
Why would you think this when the only reason to redo these books is to make substantial changes?
The remasters of existing books are being done in the place of regular reprints. That's why it's been semi-random. All the remastered non-core books are is special errata.
In addition We can look at treasure vault and guns and gears to see that anything that's going to require a lot of new or altered text is unlikely.
This happens with each book and people need to stop getting their hopes up that the reprint is going to fix whatever pain point they have, because Paizo have been pretty clear that's not what they're doing here.
Sure it's not nothing, but it's also not what champion got. It was tweaks to numbers and some of the changes requested here are just not going to happen.
I know that I will get a ton of push back on this, but I think while buffing several of the psychic features, Paizo needs to nerf Imaginary Weapon. 2d8 damage (at Rank 1) is as good as most Rank 2 spells. Even being a spell attack roll, it is just too good.
Amped is even more broken. By Rank 3 you are dealing 6d8 Force damage to two targets.
It should probably be dropped down to 2d6 with +d6 per rank (regular and amped). Now it is more in line with Force Barrage for damage. At Rank 3, 2 action casting of Force Barrage deals 4d4+4 (Avg 14) v. 4d6 (Avg 14). Because you have to roll to hit it is weaker than FB, but it should be since it is a cantrip.
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I disagree.
The magus misusing it isn't really a concern of the main-class psychic. It's a concern for how you write the multiclass archetype, but magi could also get Fire Ray through several different dedications which scales almost as fast. It's a problem with the magus that people don't find its native focus spells attractive enough. That problem needs to be solved inside the magus, not by causing trouble for the psychic.
So, looking at the psychic: imaginary weapon could be nerfed, but actually the psychic isn't doing enough damage as-is. Yeah, it's a cantrip, because you're "the cantrip class" that gets fewer normal spell slots than normal. So these cantrips need to be really really good to make up for that. If you don't get the flexibility of having a decent amount of spell slots, then what you have left should be more powerful than a more flexible caster. Like a sorcerer or oracle. You deserve a LOT of oomph for having only half those spell slots.
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I think there's truth to the above, but specifically with regards to classes besides the Psychic: when you're a 6 HP/level cloth caster, getting into melee range is incredibly dangerous, such that even burst of imaginary weapon's caliber in my opinion fails to make it a great amped cantrip on the Psychic (I'll also mention that despite being a spell with the force trait, the damage is only piercing or slashing). By contrast, if you're a Starlit Span Magus who can make an attack with a higher modifier from a safe distance away while also having martial-grade defenses, it's so incredibly strong that you don't even need to care about a second target for it to easily replace Spellstriking with slot spells. I actually think a lot of the Psychic's amps could use some buffs, and in the case of imaginary weapon I think it could use the glutton's jaws treatment where it gains range and becomes more usable for the Psychic; I'd be willing to trade off damage for this as well, if it comes to that.
I know that I will get a ton of push back on this, but I think while buffing several of the psychic features, Paizo needs to nerf Imaginary Weapon. 2d8 damage (at Rank 1) is as good as most Rank 2 spells. Even being a spell attack roll, it is just too good.
Amped is even more broken. By Rank 3 you are dealing 6d8 Force damage to two targets.
It should probably be dropped down to 2d6 with +d6 per rank (regular and amped). Now it is more in line with Force Barrage for damage. At Rank 3, 2 action casting of Force Barrage deals 4d4+4 (Avg 14) v. 4d6 (Avg 14). Because you have to roll to hit it is weaker than FB, but it should be since it is a cantrip.
I'd be fine with that. The tangible dream psychic im playing in my buddy's season of the ghost campaign is using his feats for rogue dedication to get a naruto-style ninja type build. Honestly, the damage I can output seems a bit high and I'd rather have psychic be a 8 hit point class than be able to nuke in melee. Dropping often when I overcommit to melee seems to be the biggest issue. Imaginary weapon being 2d6 wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't melt as easily when focused.
For my little tanuki's sake, more hp or more spell slots for defensive spells would be my ask for the class. Holding out for level 5 so I can get wooden double for my substitution jutsu.
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Paizo needs to nerf Imaginary Weapon. 2d8 damage (at Rank 1) is as good as most Rank 2 spells. Even being a spell attack roll, it is just too good.
To put it another way, that's 1.5 more damage on average than Needle Darts, a cantrip anyone can pick up that has a 60 foot range... y'know as opposed to a melee range ability unique to a spellcaster that gives up slots for better cantrips.
It should probably be dropped down to 2d6 with +d6 per rank (regular and amped).
That's just gouging claw, a regular ass normal cantrip.
edit: My mistake, I forgot Gouging Claw bleeds on a hit and not just as a crit rider. So the idea is to make it worse, not the same as.
I don't think nerfing Imaginary Weapon would be the end of the world, but I also feel obligated to categorically reject this idea that the cantrip being all of one die size better than a default melee cantrip is somehow breaking anything
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Imaginary Weapon is fine on a psychic. It is brutal on a Starlit Span magus. It is super fun, but the damage is too insane. A high level, amped imaginary weapon bow crit feels great, but is over-powered. That's more of a problem with Starlit Span than imaginary weapon having to be balanced against use by a Starlit Span magus.
IW is really good on any Magus willing to take the spell swipe feat. Especially with a weapon with the sweep trait
Spellswipe is a pain to set up. If it works, it's awesome. The situations where it sets up well are few and far between.
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To put it another way, that's 1.5 more damage on average than Needle Darts, a cantrip anyone can pick up that has a 60 foot range... y'know as opposed to a melee range ability unique to a spellcaster that gives up slots for better cantrips.
At rank 1 non-amped, you are right it isn't that much stronger than existing cantrips especially considering that it is melee ranged.
But when amped, it completely breaks the power curve. You can cast it amped 3 times per encounter. At rank 5 it deals 10d8 to two targets. A rank 5 fireball does 10d6, but you max out at 3-4 of those per day.
It's just too strong for an every fight ability and that is pretty obvious since every power-gamer/munchkin/hyper-optimized build grabs it.
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Fireball has 500 feet range and 20-foot burst area. Imaginary weapon is unique to psychics (well, and multiclass psychics), targets up to two people, and and requires a cloth caster to be melee. Its not overpowered for psychics.
I don't think it's too ridiculous but scaling like a d8 spell (2d8 per rank with a focus point instead of 1d8) AND getting a second target is a bunch of small things. You get d8 spell slot spell attack damage...on two things ...for two actions. As it relates to the oh so squishy 6 health cloth caster chassis it's more suicidal than OP, but on any other chassis it's over budgeted. I'd rather see it be corrected if it meant more health or more gas in the class chassis
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My personal opinion on this is that the Psychic's amps ought to be as powerful as top-rank slot spells: the point of the class as I understand it is that they get effectively the best focus spells in the game, and benefit from an inexhaustible supply of a few slot spell-worthy focus spells in exchange for significantly reduced versatility compared to other casters. In this respect, most amped psi cantrips fall short, and while imaginary weapon does more or less match fireball's damage (the former's higher damage die is nearly entirely made up by the latter's damage on a successful save), its extremely short range make it a liability on the Psychic in the same way as the pre-remaster glutton's jaw was on the Sorcerer. It is specifically in the hands of other classes that it becomes too strong, when those classes can boost the spell's accuracy and use it with much greater safety.
Thus, I'd say that the spell could probably be buffed and have its range extended... so long as it is no longer made available to other classes. If amps are going to be consistently as powerful as top-rank slot spells, then they absolutely cannot be allowed to fall into the hands of classes who could use them to full effect, which includes the Magus with imaginary weapon but also other casters who are very much not supposed to have this kind of unlimited power. A Psychic who can consistently feel like they're rivalling top-rank slots in terms of damage, utility, etc. on the very select few amps they get would likely feel much better about their class-defining power, and would probably get to feel a little less cheated if that power weren't so poachable via their archetype.
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This is a slight tangent but wouldn't amped ignition be better munchkin fodder. It's a d10 plus splash damage or d12 in melee.
If you use the cantrip in melee, d12 + 1 splash damage translates to an average of 7.5 damage per rank, which is less than imaginary weapon's average of 9 damage per rank. The difference is technically a bit smaller due to the splash damage applying on a miss and ignition dealing a d4 of persistent fire damage per rank on a crit, plus the cantrip does have more range, but in terms of sheer blasting power imaginary weapon likely still wins out.
At rank 1 non-amped, you are right it isn't that much stronger than existing cantrips especially considering that it is melee ranged.To put it another way, that's 1.5 more damage on average than Needle Darts, a cantrip anyone can pick up that has a 60 foot range... y'know as opposed to a melee range ability unique to a spellcaster that gives up slots for better cantrips.
The amped version is much better yeah, but the section I quoted you were talking about the cantrip part of the spell.
But even the amped version doesn't scale that much beyond what you'd expect for the spell. Doing that much damage to two targets is very good, but we see other two target spells not paying that much for the bonus and, again, it's a melee range ability and a special class feature of a caster who pays out the nose for the privilege of having it.
It's just too strong for an every fight ability and that is pretty obvious since every power-gamer/munchkin/hyper-optimized build grabs it.
Every build? It's slightly better than the alternative option for a Magus but I'm not aware of many other builds that particularly prioritize it.
You're taking it on Barbarians? Kineticists?
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Here's what I'm hoping we MIGHT see in the Remastered Psychic:
1) 3-slots. Seriously. Just... why was it ever 2???
2) Get rid of stupify from Unleashed Psyche. Maybe also extend the duration.
3) Alter Oscillating Wave's Conservation of Energy feature, to just letting you turn fire to cold or cold to fire, without needing to balance it out.
4) Rewrite the Subconscious Mind related feats. Especially the Wandering Reverie one.
5) Okay, this last one is just wishful thinking on my part, but: GIVE PSYCHICS the ability to IGNORE mindless trait when dealing MENTAL DAMAGE!!!
I think that a non-intrusive, minor change to the Psychic that they could make would be in their proficiencies. I think you could add a lot to the Psychic by giving them trained proficiency in all Tech weapons, from Starfinder 2e.
... Hey, no one said we had to submit GOOD ideas.
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