Hello,
I've been invited yesterday to a new game and I ended up choosing to be a swashbuckler. I played one a few sessions pre-remaster but I'm hardly knowledgeable about this class.
I first wanted to do a Wit swashbuckler for One for all, that is THE FEAT I really want to use. But then I realized it's not wit-specific anymore, and I could go with a braggard.
But when I tried to put this all together, I failed miserably - I'm one feat short of what I'm trying to do (which is be a great braggard while using one for all whenever I can in order to help AND get out-of-turn panache). The problem is, I'm the only one with some dex, so I'll try to be on trap duty and I'll need some modicum of thievery (and it would be great to put some boosts in other useful skills as well).
Please, remember it's a whole campaign going from 1 to 20, so it *should* be enjoyable to play at all levels, not magically come together at level 12 or so.
Here's what I thought (the 1st level is not set in stone but I kind of need the out-of-turn panache and the +2 AC since our fights are usually deadly - and I'll have to take buckler dance at level 10 anyway).
Option 1: No acrobat archetype
1 - Extravagant Parry
2 - Antagonize
3 - Expert Intimidation/Acrobatics
4 - One for all
5 - Expert diplomacy
6 - Vexing Tumble
7 - Master intimidation/Acrobatics
8 - Bleeding Finisher
9 - Master diplomacy
10 - (Change extravagant parry for elegant buckler), Buckler dance
Problem: even with stylish tricks, I'm strapped for skills. I get diplomacy later than I wish, and I have absolutely no boost to put into thievery (or stealth, or anything else for that matter).
Option 2: Acrobat archetype
1 - Extravagant Parry
2 - Acrobat Archetype
3 - Expert Intimidation/Acrobatics/Diplomacy
4 - Antagonize
5 - Expert thievery
6 - One for all
7 - Master intimidation/Acrobatics/Diplomacy
8 - Bleeding Finisher
9 - Master thievery
10 - (Change extravagant parry for elegant buckler), Buckler dance
Problem: Now I have my skills, but I lose Vexing tumble (I know it's not highly regarded but I love it as a Mobility replacement to avoid opportunity attacks) AND one for all/antagonize are delayed a whole 2 levels each, so it comes on its own later.
What looks better for you ? Any other idea ? Any feat I might have missed that could solve my conundrum ?
I *could* do it with Natural ambition, but that means being human and I wanted to do a hobgoblin, for remorseless lash/agonizing rebuke. Should I go with adopted ancestry or some such shenanigans (but then I lose one of those mandatory ancestry feats).
Edit: Hmm, wait, how does that sound ?
Human with versatile human -> Adopted ancestry (hobgoblin)
Ancestry feat 1: Natural ambition (one for all)
General feat 3: Ancestral paragon (remorseless lash)
Ancestry feat 5: Agonizing rebuke
IT SEEMS TO WORK !
That's true, maybe I'm overthinking this. It's just that our DM is famous for its tough encounters and as a frontliner, I'm always a bit sweaty when I'm not in heavy armor with a shield - especially using antagonize to draw some aggro to me.
Like I said, i'm also new at playing a remaster Swashbuckler so I have a hard time picturing how my turns could go.
For instance, turn 1:
- Move to the opponent using tumble through, getting panache on anything but a crit fail (so most of the time only a nat 1).
- Now that I have panache, I should use a finisher - but it's probably better to debuff first, using demoralize. So that's some wasted panache.
- Use my finisher.
I could go the other way round (use finisher then intimidate) which doesn't waste panache but it's a bit silly not to first debuff his AC.
But then, if I do have panache thanks to this, I could do my next turns like:
- Finisher
- One for all
- Exuberant parry
I agree that it's pretty cumbersome, though, and counts on my finisher hitting to keep remorseless lash on him.
Edit: wait, it doesn't work, I have to intimidate first THEN hit for remorseless lash to work.
So yeah, maybe exuberant parry is overkill, you're right. It's just my paranoid self jabbering that I'll get critted to death by some +3 monster ^^
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Consider Assurance on your Panache skill/Acrobatics. It's not a must-have as you'll only succeed vs. below-level enemies, but you'd get your temp Panache and the feat does protect from Misfortune effects or nat 1s.
And you can carry a shield until the Stance becomes available I agree that in a tough campaign you'll want that AC maxed (though that doesn't necessarily make you the front-liner!).
Depending on party build & tactics, consider Guardian's Deflection.
Remorseless Lash is solid, but IMO not worth as much as it's costing here.
You might have to pick a lane re: All-for-One vs. Antagonize. See which face skills your party's covering. IMO All for One (in a tight combat) costs more than people realize, though yeah, it's also game-changing if you can pay it.
For a random recommendation consider Eldritch Archer. Only the Dedication, so that you have a significant ranged option (as always, depending on the party's gaps/strengths).
I have a hard time advising much since there are so many delicious ways to build a Swashbuckler as you've discovered. For example, I can't pass up Charmed Life, especially if going to 20 b/ of Incredible Luck.
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I guess the dilemma, before lvl 9 and my exemplary finisher, is "something to do with my third action once everyone has been demoralized and I don't need to move".
For instance, round 2 can be
1) Demoralize
2) Finisher
3) One for all
Round 3 starts with panache, so you get:
1) Finisher
2) One for all
3) ??
This is the reason why I wanted exuberant parry, but you're totally right: since One for all does the out-of-turn panache generation, I don't need exuberant parry, a simple steel shield will do the trick.
Well, thanks, that's a relief ;)
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My player that enjoys swashbucklers finds Charmed Life extremely useful. Lots of saves in this game.
Main thing as you've targeted is knowing how your panache generation is going to work. The action cost, the probability, and how it works into your normal attack routine within your group structure.
I usually pick up one for all on bards as often the swashbuckler is too involved in combat to spare the actions. If you have another martial or player you can use it on often, then you might find it useful. One for All locks you in to the target because you have to pick a target to use it on, so you should use it only if you're fairly certain the player you target will use the bonus. It does provide another very useful option for panache generation that is the same action cost as the other methods.
I don't find you use your reaction much as a swashbuckler until higher level when your AC gets better. With Wit you will be able to lower the attack roll against you making the Opportune Riposte action go off more often. So you have to make sure it doesn't conflict with the One for All.
The swashbuckler does have a toolset that requires some tactical thought to use. That is part of what makes them fun. Their actions are meaningful and can be useful in different situations. You have to think about how you will use them in the group paradigm. When to go heavy defense, when to pump up an ally, when to save that reaction for Opportune Riposte, especially as your AC gets higher and you pick up Buckler Dance.
The most popular finishers I see used are Bleeding Finisher, Precise Finisher (That damage is nice on a miss as a second attack), and Perfect Finisher which often becomes your go to finisher once you reach that level.
The swashbuckler has a lot of nice feats and abilities that work much better since the Remaster. It's now a pretty great class that requires thought to maximize as they have a lot of tools for a martial.
That's true, maybe I'm overthinking this. It's just that our DM is famous for its tough encounters and as a frontliner, I'm always a bit sweaty when I'm not in heavy armor with a shield - especially using antagonize to draw some aggro to me.
Like I said, i'm also new at playing a remaster Swashbuckler so I have a hard time picturing how my turns could go.
I'm hoping that your GM is familiar with the differences in difficulty ratings between PF1 and PF2.
Otherwise,
So yeah, maybe exuberant parry is overkill, you're right. It's just my paranoid self jabbering that I'll get critted to death by some +3 monster ^^
it won't matter. Extravagant Parry won't save you from getting critted to death by that +3 monster.
bleeding finisher suck
better get stunning instead
Lol.
I'm hoping that your GM is familiar with the differences in difficulty ratings between PF1 and PF2.
He is, but we do like a challenge and he's sometimes a bit overly keen ^^
it won't matter. Extravagant Parry won't save you from getting critted to death by that +3 monster.
In my experience, it really does. +2 means 10% less chance of being hit and crit, and that really saved my bacon in the long run. I agree it's not the end all be all of fighting, but it's still better than nothing.
+2 AC comes to about 1/4 less damage which translates as a +33% h.p. difference (using a Paizo dev's math). This is why a Champion w/ 10 h.p./heavy armor was more durable than a pre-remaster Barb w/ 12 h.p./medium armor-1 + temp h.p. And a good reason why the Barb needed its AC adjusted in the remaster so they could be closer in frontline toughness.
If each PC stays functional just an extra round from Blue Frog's +2 AC helping him survive one more round, that's a big cumulative difference vs. those +3 Level bosses, especially if there's a healer using that extra round to add even more rounds. (As always, observations are party & campaign dependent.)