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That's right, the madman Pasha is back to hopefully cross another idea off the bucket list! Let's get some context out of the way first. My recently diagnosed neurogenic disorder (which thankfully isn't life-threatenening!) means that I'm going to have a lot more free time on my hands for the foreseeable future and I want to use part of that to run one more game.
I'm aware of the dangers of trying to shoulder too many things at once and that's the reason I held off on posting this until I my Coliseum Morpheuon recruitment neared completion. Well that and, truth be told, I had a much bigger list of ideas to work through that was just too all over the place and needed paring down.
There's one thing I need to point out before getting into the ideas: this game is NOT going to be anywhere near as cracked as my Coliseum Morpheuon game. Sure, they'll still start at higher levels and with lots of extra bits and bobs to customize your characters with, but don't expect there to be artifacts, templates, and such up for grabs right off the rip.
Now let's lay the ideas out on the table and see what people think.
First up is Throne of Night by Fire Mountain Games and we're gonna need to talk about it a little more since the AP itself has some baggage that comes with it. If you've been in the Pathfinder sphere as long as I have, you've probably heard that the Throne of Night AP is more or less dead in the water after being abandoned by the author after book two. But I'm the type of person who refuses to let a good idea die and I ended up splicing together something approximating the original concept so that my local group could finish the AP years ago. I've greatly expanded the lore of the Azathyr and the races and cultures within it with heavy helpings of content from Green Ronin's Plot and Poison: A Guidebook to the Drow and Unveiled Masters: The Essential Guide to Mind Flayers books, the Aventyr line of books by AAW Games, WotC's old Lords of Madness supplement covering abberations, and other sources. I've also filled in the gaps of the actual campaign with a combination of elements from AAW's Rise of the Drow mega-adventure, the Cyclopean Deeps hexcrawls by Frog God Games, and my own homebrew based on every scrap of information and art I could find on plans for the AP. The tl;dr of the plot hook is that the PCs were members of the now-fallen House Vytharia, which was slated to usurp Royal House Undorid until an act of treachery led to the fall of the Vytharias. Humiliated, enslaved by the Queen's forces, and sent to the remote settlement of Vothys to be worked to death by Baroness Satha Sevastia, a chance encounter with a svirfneblin freedom fighter sees them freed from their chains and set on a path to reclaim their house's lost glory. This AP is a dark reflection of Kingmaker with its hexcrawling and kingdom-building aspects and it should appeal to anyone who likes that kind of thing.
Following that is EN Publishing's War of the Burning Sky AP, which the informed among you may astututely observe has no official Pathfinder version. Me being the kind of person I am though, I'd never let a silly thing like that stop me and I made a full conversion of it based on the 3.5 version years ago. There's a free player's guide out there for the 3.5 version that covers the setting and requisite information pretty well. The tl;dr of the plot hook is that the PCs are residents of the Free City of Gate Pass, which is currently being besieged on by the armies of the Ragesian Empire under the command of the recently crowned witch queen Leska following the assassination of Emperor Drakus Coaltongue. The PCs are entrusted with the important task of sneaking out of the besieged city and trekking through a secret path within the eternally-burning fey forest of Innenotdar to seek the aid of the Free City's allies and find a means of fighting back against the Empire. And that's just the first two adventures of the twelve adventure AP.
So that's it folks, those are the ideas being considered right now. Ask away if you've got any questions about either idea on the table.
Your adaptation of Throne of Night sounds amazing! I like the idea of Kingmaker with an Underdark twist. And War of the Burning Sky seems to be very heroic, kind of like Hell's Rebels, which is certainly a fine story to tell.
Does your Pathfinder adaptation include Traits? I always find Traits are the best place for me to start with concepts when making a new character.
I am apparently a scatterbrain and forgot to list Zeitgeist as the third option on the table. It's too late to edit it in, but it's also in the running with Throne of Night and War of the Burning Sky.
@eriktd: Hey, a familiar face! Cool to see you in another one of my threads.
To answer your question, yes, both Throne of Night and War of the Burning Sky have Campaign Traits I personally designed.
Throne of Night's Campaign Traits are pretty varied and cover everything from a character's former position within House Vytharia, to elements tied to their veneration of one of the drow pantheon (The Spider Queen or one of the lesser gods known as Her Claws that she delegated authority over one of the schools of magic to), to circumstances following Vytharia's fall and the character's enslavement. The campaign traits here are also designed to go beyond the usual +1 bonus to X since small bonuses, while useful, are also underwhelming.
War of the Burning Sky's Campaign Traits run the gamut of background links, but all are heavily tied to the setting. Hospitilar of the Acquiline Cross, Lyceum Laureate, and Fallen Inquisitor of the Torch are examples of traits I made that tie directly tie into existing factions, while other traits are more general such as Taranesti Remnant for those wild elves who survived the brutal purges enacted by the Shahalesti high elves many years ago or Golden Nightmares representing the character being haunted in their dreams by visions of a gold-clad woman with the shadow of a dragon running from something terrible that the character can never get a clear view of (something that will become clear much later). I think there's around a baker's dozen ideas here, so people should have plenty to work with. Like Throne of Night's Campaign Traits, these go beyond the usual +1 bonus to X.
The games sound seriously intriguing. Bravo on your work adapting them. What are the rough level ranges for each? Personally, the second option interests me more.
Ooo, Zeitgeist: The Gears of Revolution also sounds really exciting. Steampunk and intrigue! I'm certainly interested in all three, so whichever one you decide you want to run I will certainly do my best to put together an application.
Always yes to sphere.
I would vastly prefer Throne of Night over the other two, as I absolutely love the Drow, and have wanted to play in a Drow-centric, House intrigue game for *years* now.
That said, I would be down for whatever is chosen.
Heh, I was wondering why, given your wide array of 3pp sources and APs that Zeitgeist wasn’t in there. I echo request for level range. I’m not really one to start at higher levels…
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Since two people have asked about level ranges so far, let's get into that first. Everyone will start out as 5th level gestalt Spheres characters and the expectation is that characters hit 20th level near the end of the campaign, but with enough time to actually play around with capstone abilities.
Zeitgeist canonically has players start out at 20th level for the final two adventures out of the AP- #12: The Grinding Gears of Heaven and #13: Avatar of Revolution- and that expectation remains.
War of the Burning Sky will see the characters ding 20th level by the end of the penultimate adventure #11: Under the Eye of the Tempest, just in time for the final adventure, #12: The Beating of the Aquiline Heart.
Throne of Night will reach 20th level at the conclusion of the penultimate adventure, #5: Sailors on the Sunless Sea, so they can strut their stuff in the final adventure, #6: Dark Dynasty. I know some people might balk at the idea of characters being 17th-19th level in Sailors on the Sunless Sea because the list of pickings for high-level aquatic monsters seems slim on the first-party side of things, but I've got the Cerulean Seas books and, hoo boy, all I've got to say is slapping aberration templates on top of high age category song dragons does wonders for creating terrifying deep sea beasts for an underdark ocean...
I do want to elaborate a little more on the Throne of Night stuff since it doesn't have the benefit of a player's guide to the setting and lore.
We'll start with the most important thing in any drow campaign: discussion about the Six Great Houses of Taarysia.
So first off, Taarysia was ruled by the Six Great Houses. Royal House Undorid is the house of the current queen and is known for both its powerful ritualists and exceptional brutality. House Jezzavon is a decadent house of merchants and artisans that are little better than fawning synchophants- albeit powerful and ruthless ones- to whichever Great House currently reigns. House Bareth-Kyre's members mingle with fiends (in every sense of mingling that you can imagine) and are sorcerous conjurers without peer who broker pacts with powerful fiends and have a side business in the trade of souls with the lower planes. House Sathys is a militaristic house known for producing some of the finest weapons and warriors the Azathyr has seen, although it has recently been in disgrace since its open alliance with House Vytharia saw it lose much standing in the eyes of the queen. House Vakazar has a stranglehold on the slave trade and everything from surface dwellers to fully grown deep dragons have been captured and broken by its members. And then there's the fallen House Vytharia, a thoroughly machiavellan and yet uncharacteristically tight-knit house whose currency was secrets, assassinations, manipulation, and a fervent devotion to the Spider Queen and Her Claws.
House Vytharia was run in a way that many of us in the modern world would consider akin to the Mafia. Loyalties ran deep among the house's members and betrayal was nearly unthinkable, but harshly punished with unspeakable tortures. Affections also ran deep in the family- rumors say that they ran TOO deep with certain members, if you catch my drift- and Vytharia was one of the only houses that maintained a crypt for the deceased. Every member of drow blood in the house had to undertake the Trial of Seven Poisons when they reached adolescence as a rite of passage and every available family member attended these, welcoming those who survived intact as honored members of the family. The word of a Vytharia was considered nigh-unbreakable, although it was an open secret that attention to the exact words used was necessary, for they were true-bred inhabitants of the City Without Mercy to those they deemed as fools. Before their betrayal at the hands of Second Daughter Pensithylia and their subsequent downfall, the Vytharias had managed to secure secret alliances with most of the other Great Houses, including an open alliance with House Sathys who frequently relied on their spies and assassins to handle problems their less subtle warriors could not.
Now that we've got the most important stuff of the way regarding the Six Great Houses, let's talk about the drow pantheon.
Now for the lesser gods known as the Queen's Claws who the Spider Queen granted authority over one of the great schools of magic. Black Widow the Daughter of Death is the vengeful offspring of the Spider Queen that was granted power over necromancy and has become an icon of law and vengeance after a double betrayal by the previous Claw of Necromancy (her once-lover) and the Spider Queen. Ever-cautious and patient Bronzobrek the Ready One is one of the only original Claws who has survived the millennia and he serves as the patron of abjuration magic, protection, and healing. The sadomasochistic Demzer the Lord of the Lash was granted his position after surviving the Spider Queen's soul-shattering affections and becoming elevated as her consort and he is the master of enchantment magic, pain, and domination. Ilshyrra the Dark Lady is the secretive mistress of illusion magic, beauty, and shadowy trickery who is as much a lie made flesh as she is a goddess. The void-black eyes of Reshagol the Lord of the Unknown sees all and he is the patron of divination magic, ingenuity, and unspeakable secrets. Reykabre the Slave Lord is a slothful Claw who leaves most of his duties up to his bound servitors, although he is the lord of conjuration, slavery, and the element of air. Syrellyn is the fickle and ever-shifting Wave of Change, the creator of the aquatic drow and mistress of transmutation magic, water, and fleshwarping alchemy. Xarcon the Unraveler is the baleful master of evocation magic, destruction, and molten earth who keeps his predecessor's charred corpse behind his throne as a display of his power.
There are four other figures worshipped by drow. Nyarleth the Conqueror is the first of the drow offshoot known as the drey ever born and was elevated by the Spider Queen as a brutal goddess of war, conquest, and bloodshed. Skuttle is a secretive and conniving god whose origins and identity are unknown even to most of the Queen's Claws and they're a patron of secrets, assassins, and thievery. Az'zartha is the demon princess of evil dragons and serpents, poison, and treachery who is rumored to be the offspring of one of the Spider Queen's many conquests. Worship of the foul god-thing known as Arrachnoveloth is a crime punishable by death in every corner of the drow empire by the Spider Queen's direct decree and the squamous thing is an unholy god of corruption, vermin, madness, and the horrors that lie beyond the void.
And now for a little on the Azathyr itself.
First we have the Great Fungal Jungle of Xan in the Upper Azathyr that houses Xan, a name both the mushroomfolk and their city share. Colorful, bioluminescent mushrooms that can grow as large as a sequoia tree sprout in this island-locked jungle and the beautiful sporestorms that erupt from them every so often pose a danger to any being that relies on a lung-based respiratory system. Legends hold that the Xan worship an ancient god spore that serves as the sundered rhizome of some incomprehensibly ancient being from beyond the stars.
The Earth's Wound is a region where primordial elements rage. Great swamps of boiling mud, steaming crevices of lava, and stiflingly humid forests filled with dinosaurs and carnivorous flowers grow from the element-rich soil.
The Sunless Sea is a massive underground ocean filled with terrifying aquatic aberrations. Great non-euclidian cities made of organic stone grow in great mucousal bubbles like squamous tumors in the deepest trenches, strange jellyfish bewitch prey with otherworldly lights before devouring their flesh and memories, amphibious and bat-winged squid-things break the surface and rise to play discordant whistling melodies with their spiraled flute horns, and cloaked boatsmen with no visible features beyond their three-fingered hands and four burning eyes ply the waters above in skiffs of green-black metal etched with unwholesome sigils.
The Temple of the Half-God is home to an incomprehensibly old lich who cannibalized the remaining divine essence of the dead god whose petrified form was hollowed out and remade into the island temple-city filled with undead and entire races born wholesale from godflesh molded and imbued with alchemically-distilled souls (ever played the video game known as Grime?). The night-black waters surrounding the island are languriously patrolled by star-flecked nightshades of massive size known as the Dark Walkers who answer to none, not even the lich king that has made the corpse island his home.
The Nameless City- whose actual name is unpronounceable by anything other than a serpent, but is sometimes translated as Ss'thiss Escorsiss or 'The Cold Mother's Cradle'- is a place of domed towers carved from massive deposits of magically-strengthened and polished volcanic stone and rose quartz by primordial serpentfolk. Hallucinogenic smoke drifts through the streets like a luxurious purple fog and decadent pleasure palace where the serpentfolk may devour live humanoids and enjoy the struggling of their prey in peace dot the city. The city is ruled by color-coded castes, each of which schemes against the others out of a fervent belief that they are the one, true servants of their ancestral god-king Sa-Heloth and the serpentine goddess known as the Cold Mother he served in life.
The Hidden Worlds of Jupiter Kwan exist near the lowest reaches of the Azathyr where reality itself seems to grow unsteady. The Hidden Worlds are a collection of small stillborn worlds salvaged, shaped, and strung together like a great cosmic rhizomal network of earthbound paradises and nightmarish hellscapes by the immortal archmage the nascent worlds are colelctively named after.
I was playing in a Zeitgeist game on these boards, unfortunately it folded after a year or so, but the concept was intriguing. Not sure what the later books are like but the first couple of books are great.
Throne of night sounds like fun too, I'd throw my hat in for that.
Still thinking about what I want to go with.
Does anyone have any questions about the APs? My plans for each, examples of some of the more out there changes I've made like the aberrant song dragons I mentioned last night, general AP breakdowns like Paizo would put on their product pages, what favored enemies would be decent picks, et cetera?
I much prefer the Burning Sky AP, but I would still shoot my shot for the Drow-Kingmaker RP.
Just wonder how much of that will force us to follow the Spider Queen, or if we might be capable of eventually leading to a Drow revolution against her.
@Fury of the Tempest: Throne of Night doesn't have a strict faith requirement like its sister AP Way of the Wicked does, although most drow pay at least lip service to the Spider Queen and the eight Claws under her. The party will lead an insurgency against the current queen of the drow in in book #4: City of Night, but I haven't made any plans for anything against the Spider Queen.
but I haven't made any plans for anything against the Spider Queen.
Well, you are an experienced DM, and all the stories and YouTube videos always tell me that Players often do stuff the DM never expected. So, suppose this now is a warning?
Heh, only if it works out that way, and I get selected.
Assuming Pasha ends up choosing Throne, I will very much be playing some sort of Drow loyalist. Maybe not a Spider Queen worshiper, but definitely somebody who wouldn't put up with a revolt against her.
Are all the characters in Throne drow? I've started noodling character concepts just in case.
I'd love a breakdown of the sorts of enemies and environments likely to be encountered in each of them, but really I think it's up to you which one you run, Pasha!
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@eriktd: Every PC would be drow in the version we'd be using. I once ran a Throne of Night game that was just all underdark races before though, which was pretty fun in and of itself. Ended up with a party consisting of: a Deurgar Sworn Protector Warder/Aegis focused on Black Seraph and Eternal Guardian, a Xan (the mushroomfolk/myconids) Perfumer Alchemist/Pei Zin Practitioner Nature Oracle focused on heals and buffs, a Drow Nightblade/Dervish Dancer Bard, and an Illithid-Kin (3.5 race) Dual Disciple Psion/Legendary Wizard. Good times!
What sort of information are you wanting about enemies and environments? Something general like caves, forests, deserts, dragons, undead, outsiders, etc? Or something more specific like some of the breakdowns I did on a few of the Azathyr's cool locations? I'm fine talking about either!
What sort of information are you wanting about enemies and environments? Something general like caves, forests, deserts, dragons, undead, outsiders, etc? Or something more specific like some of the breakdowns I did on a few of the Azathyr's cool locations? I'm fine talking about either!
Awesome! Sounds like a fun game. I was just thinking of the generic info that Paizo gives for rangers to choose their favored class features, but anything you want to share would be interesting reading!
Drow kingmaker sounds like it would be full of amazing shenanigans. One would hope that the party would be lawful evil enough to not TPK itself.
I'm curious about something. If I choose to go with Throne of Night, would people prefer the Drow Overlord option or would they prefer an 'any underdark race' type of game?
The Drow Overlord version is probably the most cohesive narratively, although it does limit player options in character creation to some small degree since the likelihood of a good or even neutral character is unlikely in this version. It also limits some roleplay options since, for example, the short trip topside on the way to Dammerhall is probably going to lead to a major conflict with the surface elves due to the blood feud between the two sister races.
A general underdark race game wouldn't have the cohesion, but it would make for a less limiting game and could allow for some fun interactions: a xan character introducing the weirdness of their home to their new fleshy friends and possibly meeting with their inscrutable god, a dwarf or deurgar reclaiming Dammerhall and being crowned king/queen the obvious drow bit of avenging their fallen house and possibly seizing the reigns of power in Taarysia, etc.
@eriktd: I'll list all the generic information first then.
So Throne of Night's major terrain is underground for obvious reasons, but there's a few other terrains. Those are, in order of importance: urban, water, and jungle. Urban comes into play at pivotal moments in book one, one minor moment in book two, the majority of book three since a large chunk of it takes place in a ruined city, the majority of book four is urban, and there's a few optional settlements scattered across the hexes across all the books. There's a few minor watery sections scattered throughout the books, but book five takes place almost entirely underneath or on the surface of water. Jungles come into play a few times as well, but nothing major: once in a fungal jungle in book one, twice in book two in a primordial jungle and the elven woodlands it feeds into on the surface, and maybe once or twice in relatively minor areas that are optional.
As for Throne of Night's major favored enemies, I'd say aberrations, humanoids (which are being bundled together here), evil outsiders, and dragons are probably your best bets. Aberrations are not only found in every adventure, but the later portions of the game feature them in big ways, so they're probably the most useful option.
War of the Burning Sky has pretty much every terrain on the ranger list, but urban's probably slightly more useful since some of the more dangerous enemies are found in those areas and there's a few books that have 50% or more of their content focused in those. You can't really go wrong with anything except for planes, as the plane the party will visit is not just something people will know off-hand.
War of the Burning Sky's enemies are pretty diverse as well. Humanoids (again, bundling those for convenience) comprise most of the major foes, although undead, dragons, constructs, and aberrations are pretty decent second-plus choices.
Zeitgeist is without a doubt urban focused and it's not even close. Sure, there are some adventures in a cold region, quite a few planar jaunts to various planes in the latter third of the AP, a few forests, minor side treks underground, a swamp section, and a few short treks through a water section (above water), but urban is probably the most useful by far.
As for Zeitgeist enemies, humanoids (again bundled), monstrous humanoids, constructs, evil outsiders, aberrations, fey, and undead are safe bets. Humanoids are ubiquitous though and probably the most useful option.
@Grumbaki: That's definitely true and partly why I wrote House Vytharia like I did since it encourages that close-knit "mafia family" mentality from a lore perspective.
@Pasha - I was under the impression Zeitgeist ran for levels 1-20 - have you altered the AP to start at 5th level?
@Oceanshieldwolf: Yes, I altered it and the others to fit that level. It makes a lot more sense thematically in many cases. I won't lie and tell you that most of these are anything but post-hoc justifications for why I bumped everything up in power, but there are lore justifications nonetheless.
In Zeitgeist, for example, your characters are trained members of the R.H.C. and possibly have a background as a war veteran in the last Yerasol conflict, which is hard to justify as a level one John Pathfinder.
War of the Burning Sky is similar since the PCs are entrusted by the besieged city of Gate Pass to escape the city, deliver important intel, and acquire allies from various nations to fight back against Ragesia. I rather doubt those important tasks would be handed off to greenhorns without much in the way of accomplishments.
And with Throne of Night... well I don't have any lore reason there, that level's honestly just my preference.
Zeitgeist sounds like a good excuse to finally knuckle down and work out how the new Tinker sphere works, so I'd be in favour of that.
But then, I also have a decent character concept in my head that'd be perfect for Throne of Night - a Matagot Wraith//Advisor trying to act as the power behind the throne.
I'm curious about something. If I choose to go with Throne of Night, would people prefer the Drow Overlord option or would they prefer an 'any underdark race' type of game?
I would say Drow Overlord for the more cohesive narrative. But perhaps mechanically, we could pick Elves or Half-Elves for a potential 'race' package to allow for a bit more variety in racial traits?
Throne of Night
Now, I'd be very much onboard with this. And I think that any underdark race would work...but for logical consistency, I think that anyone playing a non-drow race would know that they'd be lower on the totem pole.
"About one out of every 20 drow is gifted with special powers from birth—the overwhelming majority of these exceptional drow are female, and as a result, drow society tends to be matriarchal in nature."
So, at the top of the totem pole are drow nobles. The next rung are common drow, and it seems like females are higher up than males. Under them? Half-Elves, who are a taboo topic among drow. What complicates this is that it says that they are "generally the result of matings between drow matrons (or would-be matrons) and important humans." So it seems like being a half-drow is shameful, but often they have an important parent(s). And finally? Non-Drow. Who would either be slaves or allies.
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So...I'd definitely vote for the Drow Kingmaker game. And I'd like to see it open up to non-drow. So long as the players know that going into it that not being a drow puts you pretty darn low.
Personally? I'd love to play a duegar blacksmith. Maybe with the spellforge archetype.
A duegar who has turned his back on Droskar and the drudgery of hryngar life. He has sought shelter with the drow, swearing himself to a noble house, working as both an enforcer and a craftsman who can create magical items. In return, what he seeks is a life of luxury: to fight for, and earn, the comforts that he was denied in his own homeland.
No desire for leadership. Zero ambition for usurping political power. But quite a strong desire to obtain all of the finest things in life. He'd most likely worship the demon lord Flauros, which seems like a very sollid 'drow ally' demon lord to worship for a smith.
I'm a big fan of party restrictions that promote cohesion, but I know you also have to keep trapdoors open for characters of players who leave the game or who join later, so everyone being drow from the same origins is tough to make work later in the game. You'll probably also have to rewrite some of your campaign traits if the characters are not all drow. But I'm fine with that if you are, of course!
I've been looking at a drow poisoner-- a Conscript // Scholar (Harmacist). Looking forward to seeing how the campaign traits and character building rules support that. :)
Thanks for writing up the terrains and foes. That gives me a great overview of what the characters are likely to be doing.
ZGOR is my favorite by a long shot, followed by WOBS. I could probably come up with an idea for TON, but the other two are by far my favorite.
If we do do TON, I'd rather see either a general underdark or mixed game. Then again, I've had an idea for a cerebric fungus that I thought I'd never play. (I don't expect game that allows monsters, but this is one concept where it's less intrusive than some.)
Are you considering any other 3pp content? It sounds like only spheres, but I just wanted to check for sure.
An all drow game sounds like fun, wonder if anyone will roll a male...
I would be *very* interested in Zeitgeist, and to a lesser degree War of the burning Sky, but have no interest in Throne of Night.
Since this is supposed to help Pasha decide what to run, here's a tally for each AP. If somebody mentioned in more than one, all such votes were included:
Throne: 8
War: 6
Zeitgeist:7
@ChrisAsmadi: The Tinker Sphere is actually pretty fun and intuitive. It seems a lot more daunting in concept than it is in practice.
@Fury of the Tempest: I'd say no to elves and half-elves. Even in the drow-only version, there's going to be a few options: drow, drey (a savage offshot), szarkai (albino drow), aquatic drow, and half-drow. I'm not using noble drow in this game.
@Grumbaki: That's the general view of cross-species offspring in drow society, but House Vytharia was a bit different since anyone strong enough to pass the Trail of Seven Poisons was considered worthy. They were a much more pragmatic house and that's why they were very close to unseating the queen before they were betrayed from within by the Second Daughter.
@eriktd: Campaign Traits don't really require a ton of work, so changing a few things around wouldn't be a huge deal for me.
@Philo Pharynx: I've played around with the idea of Dreamscarred stuff being added to Zeitgeist and War of the Burning Sky since they canonically have psionics, but I haven't put more thought into it beyond that. I just know that I'd like to replace the normal first-party stuff with Spheres since the latter is something that I personally consider better in pretty much every way.
@Monkeygod: The thread wasn't expressly for the purpose of gathering votes, I just wanted to read the room temperature and see if there was interest for the ideas since they're third-party and I plan on using spheres as the 'core' experience.
That's good to know, considering I'm really tempted to try Conduit//Innovator Technician for the ultimate mad inventor.
What level of firearms would Zeitgeist be using, just out of curiosity?
@ChrisAsmadi: Zeitgeist would have Commonplace Guns.
@Fury of the Tempest: I'd say no to elves and half-elves. Even in the drow-only version, there's going to be a few options: drow, drey (a savage offshot), szarkai (albino drow), aquatic drow, and half-drow. I'm not using noble drow in this game.
Huh, any chance of links to all but the drow, so we know what racial abilities we're working with?
@Monkeygod: The thread wasn't expressly for the purpose of gathering votes, I just wanted to read the room temperature and see if there was interest for the ideas since they're third-party and I plan on using spheres as the 'core' experience.
Well, from the looks of it, all of the stated ideas are 'yes please!' so you don't have any lacking interest there, that's for sure.
I'd say no to elves and half-elves. Even in the drow-only version, there's going to be a few options: drow, drey (a savage offshot), szarkai (albino drow), aquatic drow, and half-drow. I'm not using noble drow in this game.
I'm assuming that you still allow the feat tree that allows people to pick up most of the benefits of nobility over time? Theoretically at 5th level they could have all of the spell-like abilities, but not the SR.
@Fury of the Tempest: There aren't any links. I made conversions of all of those from the Plot and Poison: A Guidebook to the Drow except for the Szarkai, which I homebrewed since the old Drow of the Underdark book from 3.5 basically just listed them as albino drow with no real substantial changes.
@Philo Pharynx: Yes, that feat line would be fine.
Even though this is an interest check, and we don't have full character creation rules, you seem to have triggered my character muse. The one that wakes me up at an ugodly hour and won't let me sleep until I've worked on the character to her satisfaction.
If we do Zeitgeist, I'm thinking of a hedgewitch/incanter or hedgewitch/thaumaturge. Definitely good with knowledges.
She is still thinking about WoBS.
For ToN, I've got a Mageknight (doomblade) and Symbiat (chronomancer) that makes for a nice skirmisher.
Hopefully this will let me rest until we get the actual game and details.
Never looked at sphere before, the rules are intriguing. I quite like the idea of a Shadowed Fist Striker for Throne of night, there's something about a drow ninja.
Not sure what I'd play for Zeitgeist - I sort of like the idea of a powder mage (if anyone's read those books) but I'm not sure that really translates well to anything d20.
Never looked at sphere before, the rules are intriguing. I quite like the idea of a Shadowed Fist Striker for Throne of night, there's something about a drow ninja.
Not sure what I'd play for Zeitgeist - I sort of like the idea of a powder mage (if anyone's read those books) but I'm not sure that really translates well to anything d20.
There are a number of archetypes that combine guns and magic, and that is before gestalt and spheres tricks.
I too have been thinking about character concepts for each of these games, so that when Pasha chooses one I will be ready to write up mine fairly quickly.
For Throne of Night, as I mentioned briefly before, I am thinking of a Conscript (Toxicologist) // Scholar (Harmacist). The character would be a poison specialist, obviously. Very Spheres of Might focused (Alchemy, Barrage), and pretty archetypical as a drow wielding a hand crossbow. I'm thinking very roguelike in skill choices, with Disable Device and Stealth. Depending on how many feats the characters get, this one might also be able to do some Scout and Scoundrel stuff.
War of the Burning Sky has me thinking of a much more lighthearted character. I'm looking at combining two kind of goofy Spheres class archetypes that I've always wanted wanted to play: Blacksmith (Iron Chef) and Elementalist (Elemontalist). I'd style the Elemontalist into an Elemintalist, with minty-fresh cold powers, though as a skilled chef they would be able to use it to spice all sorts of dishes. I picture the character as a hearty and loyal servant type, probably of the Bosavian breed of ratfolk, and they would usually fight with improvised weapons, particularly pots and pans.
Finally, for Zeitgeist, I have been noodling a character based on the "Spirit Medium" theme mentioned in the Player's Guide. My plan is a tiefling Soul Weaver (Shepherd of the Lost) // Technician (Innovator)-- my focus is on collecting souls and using them to power all manner of gadgets and gizmos. I figure the character grew up in Danor, had a good education, and got very good at crafting non-magical devices to do the things that would have been done with magic if it weren't for the Great Malice. Since no magic meant no raise dead spells, the character focused on reanimating corpses using technology instead. So the character is sort of a necromancer, but the creatures they bring to life are more like constructs.
I'm still around; buried under reviewing Coliseum Morpheuon submissions and lost in thought as to which AP to select, but still around nonetheless.
Does anyone have any more questions about the three APs? Maybe that'll help shake an idea loose.
All of my questions are about the character creation, which probably won't help you decide-- like, are you doing characters the same as in your Coliseum Morpheuon campaign? What do the traits look like? Are the gods of these games the Pathfinder pantheon, or something else? How does each campaign begin, and how do the characters know each other? This all goes to background and relationships, and it should also help me familiarize myself more with the settings. But don't feel like you have to satisfy my curiosity and go into all this until you're ready to put together a recruitment. :)
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@eriktd: I don't mind answering questions! I'll keep things simple right now and expand on anything you have further questions about.
Characters aren't going to be nowhere near as cracked as the ones in my Coliseum Morpheuon recruitment and won't be getting Epic Boons either.
It's a lot to type out for the Campaign Traits, but those will differ from game to game. Zeitgeist's Campaign Traits are those listed in the player's guide, with the additional bonus of gaining the associated PrCs for FREE and scaling those up at set points in the AP. I think I touched on War of the Burning Sky's Campaign Traits earlier in the thread and those haven't really changed in concept all that much. Throne of Night's are largely going to depend on whether I make it drow-focused, a dual drow/dwarf (or drow/deurgar!) campaign, or a free-for-all with underdark options.
Gods and pantheons are an interesting topic. Zeitgeist mentions many gods- mostly in book #11: Gorged on Ruins- but provides details on only about a half-dozen throughout the AP, so I've kind of filled out those descriptions to keep things internally consistent. There's also the Fey Titans, which are basically fey kaiju demigods. War of the Burning Sky only mentions two or three gods in any detail whatsoever- Avilona being the most prominent of those since, despite being presumed dead, she still grants powers to adherents of the Aquiline Cross- so I filled it out with my own since it was intentionally vague. As for Throne of Night, well, I have something already typed up detailing the many faiths of the Azathyr, not all of which are PC-friendly, but should give you an idea about the strange faiths there. Throne of Night's deities were drawn from many sources: Plot and Poison: A Guide to the Drow, Cyclopean Deeps, Helldelver's Handbook (awesome inspiration for less Tolkien take on dwarves as a whole), and my own homebrews, just to name a few. This is just a 'high notes' version of the deities that I used as personal notes, hence why they're not formatted or properly punctuated, and they'll have a bit fuller of a writeup if we go that route
-Ariashnee the Spider Queen: Former elven goddess of fate and magic and head of the drow pantheon
- Black Widow the Daughter of Death: Vengeful daughter of the Spider Queen and Claw of Necromancy
- Bronzobrek the Ever-Ready: The paranoid Claw of Abjuration and sole surviving member of the original Eight Claws
- Demzer the Lord of the Lash: Sadomasochistic consort of the Spider Queen and Claw of Enchantment
- Ilshyrra the Dark Lady: The coy and deceptive Claw of Illusion that blurs the line between being and lie made flesh
- Reshagol the Lord of the Unknown: The Claw of Divination whose empty eye sockets see truths both mundane and soul-shattering
- Reykabre the Slave Lord: The Claw of Conjuration whose divine position is at risk after millennia of slothful indolence
- Syrellyn the Wave of Change: The Claw of Transmutation and patron of dark alchemies
- Xarcon the Unraveler: The baleful Claw of Evocation who achieved divinity after brutally slaying his predecessor
- Nyarleth the Conqueror: First of the drey, supposed daughter of the Spider queen, and patron of bloody war
- Skuttle the Hidden One: Obscure demigod of secrets and thievery whose identity is known only to the Spider Queen
- Az'zartha the Princess of Poison: Demon princess of evil dragons and poisonous serpents who is another of the Spider Queen's daughters
- Arrachnoveloth the Devourer: A dark and squamous god of vermin and horrors from beyond the Void whose worship is punishable by death on the command of the Spider Queen herself
DWARVES
- The Mountain Father: The nameless and unfathomably ancient elemental god of the mountains who created the dwarven pantheon known as the Firstborn and created the Great Runes of Power that serve as anchors of the world's leylines
- Maran the Stonemother: The ever-loving crystalline mother-goddess of the Firstborn who created the dwarven race and taught them magic of stone, singing crystals, and gleaming jewels
- Ardin the Gilded Slayer: The perpetually-armed warrior god among the Firstborn who famously slew the wicked dragon queen Castoryx
- Morda the Worldhammer: The passionate Firstborn of living magma who discovered the secrets of the forge and blacksmithing
- Kiva of the Silver Tongue: The flighty trickster god of the Firstborn whose cunning words and tongue of living silver have aided the dwarven cause SLIGHTLY more than it has hindered them
- Helka the Undertaker: This icy goddess of the Firstborn serves as the stoic and impartial patron of death and lineage for the pantheon
- Fordin the Toymaker: The twin brother of Morda who serves as the patron to craftsmen who do not rely on fire for their masterpieces and is a fierce protector of children
- Jurikka the Scalebearer: The ever-shrewd and pragmatic Firstborn who serves as the goddess of justice and commerce and carries a ledger that contains every debt and transgression
- Hordrim the Hearthfather: The cheerful Firstborn of the hearth, family, and comestibles whose nose is perpetually fleshed red from his celebrations
DEURGAR
- Kordin the Betrayer: First among the Betrayers, head of the duergar pantheon, and patron of the ambitious and necromancers who corrupted the Womb of the World- where he and his fellow Firstborn were first created by the Mountain Father in the depths of the Azathyr- by drawing on the dark powers of the Void and mastering the strange necromantic powers of the Black Ichor
- Muna the White Queen: Second among the Betrayers who is the wife of Kordin and patron of witches and black magic, whose first word was so powerful that it shattered the world's second moon
- Surashar the Ashen One: Third among the Betrayers, patron of ashen flames and infernal contracts, and twin brother of Fordin who sometimes lends his brother aid
- Urakki the Blood-Drinker: Fourth among the Betrayers and patron of blood, beasts, and vampires who enjoys taking the form of a massive scarlet spider lady and stalking those lost in the dark
- Kromir of the Howling Wind: Fifth and most wicked of the Betrayers who was betrayed and chained in frozen agony deep beneath the earth, serving as patron of ice, agony, and imprisonment
- Zuuljj the Elemental Prince of Earth-Chaos: This ancient being- predating even the Firstborn and Betrayers- is a primordial cauldron of elements who grew fascinated with the deurgar and took on their form before teaching them the Three Sacred Principles of Obedience, Acquisition, and Domination and urging them to conquer the world
XAN (MUSHROOMFOLK)
- Xan-Zara the First and Eldest: The alien, fungal god-thing and creator of the Xan whose unfathomably ancient mind stretches beyond the limits of reality to witness events from countless possible timelines
SERPENTFOLK AND YUAN-TI
- The Cold Mother: The mother-goddess of primordial hunger, serpents, and untamed magic who gave birth the the serpentfolk and by extension the yuan-ti they created
- Sa-Heloth the God-King: Ancestral god-king of the Cold Mother who founded the great serpentfolk empire and lives on as a divine shadow of his former self to subtly guide his kind towards the lost glories of his empire and serves as the patron of conquest, royal authority, and mage-warriors
-King Kohandra the Bloody: Former priest-king of the serpentfolk who ascended as a demigod after the mass-sacrifice of the entire race of the Targas who served as helots in the ancient capital of the Nameless City, becoming a patron of ascension and ritual sacrifice
- Shaylissa the Sibilant Queen: Former queen of the serpentfolk empire who ruled in decadence and depravity and legends say ascended after she drugged and devoured a fledgeling demigod from an abandoned city deep in the Azathyr, becoming a demigod of decadence and usurpation
- The Script of the Ancients: This maddening tome full of dark secrets, hidden metaphors, and alien logic is venerated by serpentfolk and their children as a means of deciphering the universe by meditating upon its mysteries.
CALIGNI (DARK STALKERS)
- Isclaadra the Prince of Mists: The goat-legged and bat-winged demon prince of shadows, mists, revelations, and misdirection worshipped by the all-female Avarthamna sect of the caligni whose priestesses serve as surrogate god-brides of the duplicitous demon prince
- Nogana the Unseen: The sagely assassin of the Seven Primordial Nagas who is worshipped by the Ksharamat sect of Caligni, is the architect of the mystical Sacred Geometry of the Twelve Fundamental Shapes, and serves as the umbral collector of souls who either guides his charges to the afterlife or traps them in the world as his inscrutible whims dictate
- Teratashia the Demon Princess of Shattered Dimensions: The shadowy demon goddess of vermin, fractured dimensions, and planar conjunctions who served as the patron of a lost third sect of caligni wiped out centuries ago
- The Umbral Relinquaries: These canopic jars and portable tombs containing the ashes of ancestral caligni and body parts of honored foes of the race serve as secondary objects of veneration by the Avarthamna and Kshamarat factions who are locked in a cold religious civil war
THROLOM
- The Sixfold Paths: The throlom follow a strange atheistic religion based on a series of six prophecies (represented as a hexacomb whose points are six sigils in Aklo) handed down by an ancient prophetess of their race known as the First Imbiber of the Supernal Nectars
SVIRFNEBLIN
- The Ancestral Choir: Svirfneblin practice an atheistic faith of ancestor veneration via sacred offerings at house shrines and hold songs, obligations, and lineage sacred
MIND FLAYERS
Thoon- The creator of the mindflayers that is much a fragmented consciousness of the Void itself as it is madness given flesh
Yiquooloome the Cultivator: This primordial god of chaos from beyond the Void is also the first Elder Brain and is the father of fleshwarping, the twisting of minds, and the unspeakable appetites of aberrant beings
BEHOLDERS
- The Gazing Mother: The alien goddess of the beholders from beyond the Void who always lurks just outside the corner of a being's gaze, always watching with her many eyes that induce paranoia and abject madness
- The Eye of Gaaros-Uaazath: The still-living eye of the slain alien titan Gaaros, who currently controls the legendary fortress city of Ques Querax and is the 'father' of many aberrations such as the beholders and khryll
ELVES
The Sun King: Although once the counterpart of his wife Ariashnee the Weaver, the Sun King sits alone as the regal and haughty progenitor of the elves and a god of the sun, nature, and war
MISCELLANEOUS GODS AND OBJECTS OF VENERATION
- Tsathogga the Frog God: The frog-like Great Old One of magic, gateways, and pacts who enjoys testing followers with complex riddles, deathtraps, and faustian clauses
- The Unspeakable God of Death: A sinister alien godling of death from beyond the Void who slumbers beneath the lake known as the Flagon of Death and possesses a name whose mere utterance can draw the attention of this terrible entity, hence why it is known by its lengthy title
- Siaphela the Feathered Empress: This lascivious demigod of lust, dreams, and hallucinations was once a succubus in the employ of Isclaadra the Prince of Mists before she undertook a deathly ritual with the Mantis-Priests that saw her shed her now-embalmed form to become a goddess of unfettered desire and decadent fever dreams
Hajjirtha the Baalroch: Once a mighty hero serving a god of war in the frozen sunlit lands, the being known as Hajjirtha committed an unforgivable act of betrayal that led to his imprisonment at the edge of the Void and his subsequent transformation into a unique balor demigod of flame and hate
Throne of Night's beginning will vary depending on the racial composition. War of the Burning Sky's opening has the PCs fleeing Gate Pass with important war information and a mission to gather allies in the face of an oncoming siege after the cowardly politicians seem poised to open the gates and allow the Ragesi Inquisitors to have their way. Zeitgeist begins with the characters as members of Risur's peacekeeping force known as the RHC and will be tasked with security detail during the launch of the king's new magitech warship.
Okay, Zeitgeist is about police, possibly shading into FBI/CIA.
My idea focuses on divination magic with an astrological bend. A good investigator type.
War of the Burning Sky is about rag-tag rebels fighting an evil empire.
Still juggling ideas.
I'm not so sure about Throne of Night.
Thinking of a drow skirmisher doing magical melee.