I thought this was really simple, but after a game last night I'm questioning myself based on the Counting Damage Dice rule on Pg. 406 and the massive damage unleashed by a level 4 fighter in last night's game.
A fighter with a +1 Striking Greataxe critically hits an opponent using the Vicious Swing Feat. They are doing 6d12 damage + double Strength mod? Correct?
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Correct in spirit, but not in order of operations. Double the total after rolling rather than the number of dice and bonus. So it's (3d12+Str)x2, which is the same average damage, but with more variance.
And yeah, it's massive damage. Even at first level such a crit will often drop an enemy of the same level. Note that landing more crits is what makes the Fighter (who has no damage bonus like most martials do) among the most damaging martials.
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Correct in spirit, but not in order of operations. Double the total after rolling rather than the number of dice and bonus. So it's (3d12+Str)x2, which is the same average damage, but with more variance.
Both ways of rolling it - (3d12+STR)x2 and 6d12+(STR)X2 - are officially correct.
When doubling, the GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll.
There are some differences in the statistical distribution of the results, but the difference is generally minor. It doesn't change the average, it changes the standard deviation. It is most notable when you are only rolling one die of weapon damage.
Once you are rolling multiple dice of damage, you are already in bell curve territory for the distribution. Rolling more dice instead of rolling fewer dice and doubling the result does make the result trend a bit more strongly towards the average.
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I'm definitely a fan of roll the dice twice, not doubling the value of the original dice rolled, specifically because you're generally going to get closer to the average value. Whereas actually doubling the rolled values is more likely to result in incredibly pathetic or incredibly high rolls.
As a GM, low is bad to players, and high is bad to me.
And yeah, it's massive damage. Even at first level such a crit will often drop an enemy of the same level. Note that landing more crits is what makes the Fighter (who has no damage bonus like most martials do) among the most damaging martials.
Oh, and thank you for addressing OP's balance concerns. That yes, this level of damage from a crit is actually expected. And Fighters are balanced around dealing crits more often.
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I'm definitely a fan of roll the dice twice, not doubling the value of the original dice rolled, specifically because you're generally going to get closer to the average value. Whereas actually doubling the rolled values is more likely to result in incredibly pathetic or incredibly high rolls.
As a GM, low is bad to players, and high is bad to me.
That, and as a player, rolling a giant handful of d12s makes crits super fun. :D
My son's Fighter in Extinction Curse was up to 14d12 by the end. There's nothing quite like it.
That, and as a player, rolling a giant handful of d12s makes crits super fun. :D
My son's Fighter in Extinction Curse was up to 14d12 by the end. There's nothing quite like it.
Absolutely.
Though only if you have enough dice. Rolling the only two d12s you have at the table 7 times and having to write down what you get each time would be annoying.
For PbP there is the equivalent goal of having a dice expression that has to be word wrapped (though it is hard to accomplish on a wide screen computer monitor).
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That's why I prefer the roll once and double method, myself. I play exclusively online, and rolling twice as many dice means I have to wade my screen reader through twice as much text to get to the result.
Yeah, I can absolutely understand that. If we were ever playing together I would roll it your way.
Also, not at all the point of the thread, but I hope that, whenever we get ooze-themed options, there is a feat called "Viscous Swing."
Seconded, lol. A grevious omission from the Oozemorph archetype that should be corrected at the earliest opportunity.
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That, and as a player, rolling a giant handful of d12s makes crits super fun. :D
My son's Fighter in Extinction Curse was up to 14d12 by the end. There's nothing quite like it.
Absolutely.
Though only if you have enough dice. Rolling the only two d12s you have at the table 7 times and having to write down what you get each time would be annoying.
For PbP there is the equivalent goal of having a dice expression that has to be word wrapped (though it is hard to accomplish on a wide screen computer monitor).
[dice=Phase Bolt Rank 7 crit damage]20d4
If I EVER run a game IRL that calls for a 20d4 roll, you get a 50 and we're moving on. I'm not waiting for someone to roll and add up the results of 20 caltrops.