
The Total Package |
Quick question regarding the spell Slither. In my reading it appears the spell only takes place if the enemy stays in the radius of the spell at the end of there turn. So say it was cast on round one, on round two an enemy gets pushed into the Slither radius, the spell wouldn't do anything at that moment, then then the enemy's turn comes up and the Slither still does nothing and then enemy just casually walks out of the Slither radius without any effect? Is that right? So essentially the spell only works when at the time of casting and when the enemy ends it's turn in the spells radius?
So if I wanted I could casually walk through these tentacles as the caster if I wanted and as long as I don't end up in the radius I'm completely fine?

Gortle |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Wow, that's kind of weak. So I guess my question is, is this not a spell people would put in there repertoire as an Occult caster?
Slither is a good size area and has good range. It does some initial damage and is a good spell. Yes you would take it as an occult caster because you don't have the elemental options that arcane and primal casters get.
For sure there are a lot of spells with this end of turn problem. The better spells are things that trigger at the start of the turn or on movement as these can't be easily avoided.
Examples: Cloudkill, Wall of Fire, Flammable Fumes, Rust Cloud, Wildfire, Rain of Razors, Spike Stones and similar.

shroudb |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wow, that's kind of weak. So I guess my question is, is this not a spell people would put in there repertoire as an Occult caster?
I've personally seen it completely shutting down encounters vs "lots of weaker enemies" by trapping them almost forever inside, while the martials of the party were at the edge making sure that if someone managed to cut the slithers and try to move out they would be punished.
Even at the simple face value of them failing the initial saving throw, it forces an Attack check to break free, and then forces a move to get out, wasting both 2 of thier actions and 1 of their MAP.
It's not something you would use vs single strong eenemies, but vs lots of small ones, it's great.

Trip.H |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Slither is especially good indoors, as a 20ft burst is enough to get a full 6x6 square + change. That can easily be an entire room.
You can render the entire foe-side of the field a bad place to be, though it does mean that you will block your allies from easily flanking. They still can if one has reach thanks to how the burst is shaped, and don't need reach for Large+ foes.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Images/Rules/Rules354.png
If your party is a bit more tactical, it's also the perfect spell to open a door, throw down the spell, and force them to come to you.
Note that Slither is not a sustain spell, while also being a spell that foes cannot destroy/remove/get immunity to via some other mechanic like crit success or damage. (It's also Reflex, which is super rare for Occult)
.
Going beyond the exact RaW, it is not spelled out if the 20ft burst is "Surface only" or if it's a dome of effect. I presume most GMs rule that it's surface only, and a creature airborne > 5ft off the ground will not be affected.
This means that you can plan around that limitation, and as an R5 spell, it's much easier at that level to have those melee allies use a fly speed to fight inside the AoE. If done, it becomes a lot less niche, and much easier to use.
Don't forget about wonderful items like the flying broomstick, which is a non-investment way to trade a hand for a slow, but still very useful, 20ft fly speed.
IMO, Slither is a very important standout for Occult casters to pay attention to.
It really sucks that it's a H +2, but the damage is more there for coercion than dps, it's chip dmg so foes can't camp in the AoE and stall while eating the grapples. Slither's main power comes from how good it is at stealing actions and MAP via the constant special Grapples*.
*No idea how often it's actually relevant, but Slither is also a bizarre case where a failed Reflex leads to being grabbed/restrained, when that's usually a Fort thing. So it's actually worth casting on Large+ foes at times.

Theaitetos |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Going beyond the exact RaW, it is not spelled out if the 20ft burst is "Surface only" or if it's a dome of effect. I presume most GMs rule that it's surface only, and a creature airborne > 5ft off the ground will not be affected.
The spell makes no mention of ground, surfaces or anything. I'm reading it as the slithering snakes to come from a globe of shadow and can thus be used in mid-air (spherical). I personally prefer that to make it more distinct from the Black Tentacles spell and to have a rank-appropriate effect against fliers.

Trip.H |

Trip.H wrote:The spell makes no mention of ground, surfaces or anything. I'm reading it as the slithering snakes to come from a globe of shadow and can thus be used in mid-air (spherical). I personally prefer that to make it more distinct from the Black Tentacles spell and to have a rank-appropriate effect against fliers.
I'd definitely ask the GM before assuming either possibility.
Being able to "air-burst" the spell has another implication beyond hitting flying foes, as it also means you can shrink the effective AoE size by placing the burst higher above the ground.
That said, I do think that
A mass of snakes made of shadow rise up to capture creatures in the area.
Will have most GMs going for the "surface only" version. Though flying shadows snakes is a pretty nifty visual.

Errenor |
The spell makes no mention of ground, surfaces or anything. I'm reading it as the slithering snakes to come from a globe of shadow and can thus be used in mid-air (spherical). I personally prefer that to make it more distinct from the Black Tentacles spell and to have a rank-appropriate effect against fliers.
Yes, absolutely.
I extremely dislike any ground-only spells, so anytime they 'forget' to mention surfaces (even if intended, which is never really certain) - it's fair play.