Hello, I have questions about change shape feats from tanuki ancestry.
1/ For the teakettle form and statue form feats, are there object immunities for the character in object ? Hardness, broken condition ? Saves ? Fortitude only ?
2/ For statue form, a tanuki can't change in a cart ou large vehicle, because its object can move ?
3/ Is it possible to use combined form with a familiar with master's form ability ? A familiar is a minion, so an ally, is it right ?
This otherwise uses the effects of humanoid form, except the change is purely cosmetic. It only appears humanoid and gains no new capabilities.
And humanoid form is a polymorph effect.
4/ In teakettle form or statue form, the character can use the senses, is it right ?
5/ In tealkette form, statue form, combined form, the character can speak, can the character feats with auditory trait or that need to speak ?
Thanks to your future answer.
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1 - It doesn't seem to me like you actually become an object so much as take the shape of one. I would not wager you take on any of the actual properties of the object transformed into unless otherwise noted--for example, your weight specifically increases in Statue form, and/or any properties noted in Teakettle Form (i.e. the ability to act as a tool)
2 - I believe transforming into a cart should be viable--you cannot move yourself, but you can be moved. If you allies could lift a statue, they could lift you, too. That said, I would be wary of shenanigans if I allowed my PCs to push around a wheeled Tanuki, but it also sounds like a cool idea that I don't see many exploits for yet...
3 - Yes, this seem right, but mind that you can't act except to speak and your familiar can't act on its own in combat. This would mostly just allow you to create a giant version of you that uses your familiar's stats--or perhaps a giant version of your party's witch or wizard. Sounds fun tho
4 - It doesn't specifically say in either feat nor the base Change Shape ability, but the only thing that makes sense to me is that you can use your senses as normal
5 - Hmm... it's not quite explicit, but I would think no.
Teakettle Form - Can: Speak, Crawl. Can't: Attack, Cast Spells, Move (aside from Crawl)
Statue Form - Can: Speak. Can't: Attack, Cast Spells, Move
Combined Form - Can: Speak. Can't: Act except to exit the combined form.
There's possibly an argument for Teakettle and Statue forms for abilities that aren't attacks, spells, or movement, and which only count as speaking, but I think the list is intended to be pretty prohibitive. Feats which only modify actions to speak are probably fair. Like, I could see a cart trying to use Diplomacy or Deception feats on hapless bystanders.
For speak. Unless explicitly noted that you can't speak or you can't act (Combined Form can't act but makes an exception to Speak) you always can Speak:
As long as you can act, you can also speak. You don't need to spend any type of action to speak, but because a round represents 6 seconds of time, you can usually speak at most a single sentence or so per round. Special uses of speech, such as attempting a Deception skill check to Lie, require spending actions and follow their own rules. All speech has the auditory trait. If you communicate in some way other than speech, other rules might apply. For instance, using sign language is visual instead of auditory.
* Bold is mine
2 - I believe transforming into a cart should be viable--you cannot move yourself, but you can be moved. If you allies could lift a statue, they could lift you, too. That said, I would be wary of shenanigans if I allowed my PCs to push around a wheeled Tanuki, but it also sounds like a cool idea that I don't see many exploits for yet...
I would allow it too, but I would make those pushing the cart move on difficult terrain, and treat difficult terrain as great difficult terrain (have you ever tried pushing a wheelbarrow on bumpy ground, it's much harder than just walking in such terrains).
What if you transformed into a cart on a steep slope. Could you roll down the slope then? ;P
6/With these forms feats, is it possible to have the marshal aura and use the differents stance from marshal archetype ?
In addition, while you’re conscious, you’re surrounded by a marshal’s aura in a 15-foot emanation. Your aura has the emotion, mental, and visual traits and grants you and allies in the aura a +1 status bonus to saving throws against fear.
7/ Is it possible to become an armored carriage ? The vehicle has a movement if he was wind up.
6 - Yes while you don't break the instance requirements and aren't unconscious the Stance keep working. So if your form doesn't break your stance it continues.
A stance is a general combat strategy that you enter by using an action with the stance trait, and you remain in for some time. A stance lasts until you get knocked out, until its requirements (if any) are violated, until the encounter ends, or until you use a stance action again, whichever comes first. After you take an action with the stance trait, you can’t take another one for 1 round. You can enter or be in a stance only in encounter mode. You can Dismiss a stance.
7 - Yes but your GM may deny it considering it as an abuse. Teakettle Formsimple tool or object of 1 Bulk or less. So doesn't fit as a vehicle and Statue Form can be large but isn't suppose to have moving parts and explicitly restricts to move. So I don't think that a reasonable GM would allow. Maybe for fun but hardly would be serious.
A statue of a sled or a cylinder or sphere with cavities are going to be your least troublesome statue hacks.
6 - Yes while you don't break the instance requirements and aren't unconscious the Stance keep working. So if your form doesn't break your stance it continues.
So the character must activate the stance before the change shape ?
8/ If the character is in teakettle form as a simple object/tool in the hands of a familier with master's form and an opponent casts a fireball on its familiar, the character must have also a reflex save or is it only the familiar ?
6 - Yes while you don't break the instance requirements and aren't unconscious the Stance keep working. So if your form doesn't break your stance it continues.So the character must activate the stance before the change shape ?
It's curious because depends from each polymorph restriction:
8/ If the character is in teakettle form as a simple object/tool in the hands of a familier with master's form and an opponent casts a fireball on its familiar, the character must have also a reflex save or is it only the familiar ?
Only the familiar. Because in this situation you aren't an unattended object so unless your enemy has some ability to target held items it won't able to damage you.
6 - Yes while you don't break the instance requirements and aren't unconscious the Stance keep working. So if your form doesn't break your stance it continues.So the character must activate the stance before the change shape ?
8/ If the character is in teakettle form as a simple object/tool in the hands of a familier with master's form and an opponent casts a fireball on its familiar, the character must have also a reflex save or is it only the familiar ?
You can't take the action to activate the stance once you're in statue form (unless a GM permits otherwise), so you have to activate it before transforming while in the same encounter.
8) I would probably still require a save, attended object rules notwithstanding. Change Shape doesn't give you any special abilities of what you turn into, you're still a creature, and (as a non-rules element) the original myth had the tanuki that turned into a teakettle still getting hurt by fire.
You can't take the action to activate the stance once you're in statue form (unless a GM permits otherwise), so you have to activate it before transforming while in the same encounter.6 - Yes while you don't break the instance requirements and aren't unconscious the Stance keep working. So if your form doesn't break your stance it continues.So the character must activate the stance before the change shape ?
8/ If the character is in teakettle form as a simple object/tool in the hands of a familier with master's form and an opponent casts a fireball on its familiar, the character must have also a reflex save or is it only the familiar ?
No you can. Statue form only prevents to attack, cast spells or move. Stance are none of them.
8) I would probably still require a save, attended object rules notwithstanding. Change Shape doesn't give you any special abilities of what you turn into, you're still a creature, and (as a non-rules element) the original myth had the tanuki that turned into a teakettle still getting hurt by fire.
I understand your point but once that Teakettle Form states "When transformed into an object, you can function as that object for allies to use; for instance, turning into a crowbar so you can help an ally pry open a crate". IMO this also includes the fact that you are a held item (you can also be used) so the rule that non-unattended object normally cannot be damage still valid. IMO it works similar to Familiar Tatoo but for player character instead.
For other side you have a big disadvantage too. Due your size change (once that your size limit is 1 bulk you are Tiny now) you also are unable to carry items even cloths! So in a encounter when you exit from your Teakettle Form you are unarmed and unarmored. So your allies also have to carry your equipment and you would be in a very fragile state due lack of armor, weapons, worn items and consumables. Being a bad choice to be used in a encounter.
Whoops, you're right about the action restrictions; my bad. Entering a stance that doesn't require movement is no issue.
"Can function" and "to use" stand out as important words to me in there. Functioning as an object is to be used as one, not functioning as an object for saves, spell targeting, etc. As for turning naked, unarmored, and unequipped because it's not a battle form, that falls under "Technically, sure, but most people shouldn't run it that way and few people will." If someone is running Change Shape that way, then yeah, it makes sense to also give the protection of the object rules.
Even if you have a GM who rules so stringently, it's not as big a deal if you happen to be a monk, animal barbarian, or similar character who doesn't rely heavily on their gear.
It's totally crazy the things you can do with this ancestry. So much fun!
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It's curious case because it calls only the pest form's statistics but not the entire effect so the Polimorph's battle form restriction doesn't apply because it is in the description not in the statistics. So you basically can do anything in your Tanuki form except to use your unarmed Strike that you get from the ancestry. Also due it isn't a battle form your gear is not absorbed into you so you can use it normally.
I've posted it as an issue for errata in the Spring Errata 2025 Suggestions thread.
"Can function" and "to use" stand out as important words to me in there. Functioning as an object is to be used as one, not functioning as an object for saves, spell targeting, etc. As for turning naked, unarmored, and unequipped because it's not a battle form, that falls under "Technically, sure, but most people shouldn't run it that way and few people will." If someone is running Change Shape that way, then yeah, it makes sense to also give the protection of the object rules.
The "can" here is more a natural english point IMO is more because you not exactly need to transforms into a useful object like a crowbar used in the example. You can transform into a full decorative object without any useful function.
About "naked, unarmored, and unequipped" I agree that many players will ignore this because it isn't clear in the description. But being strictly RAW it would be how it would work. And once this is a Rules forum I try to respond focusing more in RAW with sometimes making a RAI commentary.
Even if you have a GM who rules so stringently, it's not as big a deal if you happen to be a monk, animal barbarian, or similar character who doesn't rely heavily on their gear.
It's totally crazy the things you can do with this ancestry. So much fun!
Or a caster. Spells doesn't require cloths kkkkk
It's curious case because it calls only the pest form's statistics but not the entire effect so the Polimorph's battle form restriction doesn't apply because it is in the description not in the statistics. So you basically can do anything in your Tanuki form except to use your unarmed Strike that you get from the ancestry. Also due it isn't a battle form your gear is not absorbed into you so you can use it normally.I've posted it as an issue for errata in the Spring Errata 2025 Suggestions thread.
Good! Tnx!
I also found this confusing. Specially AC when you Change Shape with an Armor (yet it's something easier to fix with a bit if houserule. Just only use the form AC when unarmored).
A/Is it possible with teakettle form to change in a deck of cards or a dice/ a pair of dice as it is an object with several parts ?
B/Is it possible to cheat during a game with a tanuki changing in a dice to crawl on the correct face ?
C/ If a character has a weapon improviser archetype, is it possible for a tanuki to change in a barrel, crate, hook; box, scale, sign; gavel, goblet, quill, lectern; bottle, mug, serving tray, stool to be an improvised weapon for the other character ?
I'm imagining all kinds of antics a tanuki could get up to, such as having a PC ally shoot a tanuki bolt through the top window of a tall tower so that he can toss down a rope. Or have the tanuki sneak in contraband by having it meld into him. Or disguising themselves as an object when the party is captured, so that he gets taken away to the same location as the party's gear, allowing for a chance to rescue everyone and get back their stuff.
All sorts of fun possibilities!
A/Is it possible with teakettle form to change in a deck of cards or a dice/ a pair of dice as it is an object with several parts ?
B/Is it possible to cheat during a game with a tanuki changing in a dice to crawl on the correct face ?
C/ If a character has a weapon improviser archetype, is it possible for a tanuki to change in a barrel, crate, hook; box, scale, sign; gavel, goblet, quill, lectern; bottle, mug, serving tray, stool to be an improvised weapon for the other character ?
In my games it certainly is possible.
They're eventually able to transform into a whole structure filled with numerous distinct objects, so a deck of cards, dice, or other ser of closely related objects is certainly within the realm of possibility I would think.
I would stamp down on it if abuse was attempted though. Not going to let you be a pair of dice and spy on two separate locations at the same time, for example.
If your parts get separated by more than the size of the object's space (or 5 feet, whichever is more), I'd have you revert to your normal form, similar to how an object taken from a tanuki house disappears, and probably with audible complaints about being "stretched too thin" too. XD
A/Is it possible with teakettle form to change in a deck of cards or a dice/ a pair of dice as it is an object with several parts ?
B/Is it possible to cheat during a game with a tanuki changing in a dice to crawl on the correct face ?
C/ If a character has a weapon improviser archetype, is it possible for a tanuki to change in a barrel, crate, hook; box, scale, sign; gavel, goblet, quill, lectern; bottle, mug, serving tray, stool to be an improvised weapon for the other character ?
A) Probably. Tea Kettles have lids, so turning into a multipart item should be possible. But we're entering a grey area. My purely personal ruling would be that parts of you that are taken too far away from you (Probably outside your square in encounter mode) cease to exist, maybe turning into a tuft of fur at most. If you turn into somwthing that's composed of multiple equal parts, I'd probably also have the transformation wear off if more than one or two pieces of you disappeared
B) Reasonable, but as a GM I'd expect you to make a thievery or Gambling lore check to not draw suspicion.
C) I would allow the basic use, but I'd disallow any of the Weapon Improviser or Resurgent Maelstrom Magus abilities that involve breaking an improvised weapon so I didn't have to deal with the headache of what happens when you break a Player Character.
A lot of these questions come down to GM fiat. If you're not the GM in question, our advice isn't terribly useful to you, as the opinions of facelss forum goers don't matter much. If you're looking for guidance in the context of Society Play, I reccomend heading over to those forums to escalate the questions to at least a venture agent level.
A/Is it possible with teakettle form to change in a deck of cards or a dice/ a pair of dice as it is an object with several parts ?
It's unclear. So it's up to GM to decide.
Landscape Form allows but restricts these "moving parts" in the text "...any objects created within your landscape form turn into leaves if taken outside of it" but teakettle doesn't specify what happen if the forme have separated parts and whats happens when you move then.So I can see many GMs (including myself) disallowing because we don't know what exactly to deal with them. Like what happens if the half of the deck was taken by one character and the other half by other? When you change back to your default form where you will be? Half will turn into leaves at the player choice? And about perception it will be able to see and ear with all parts or you have to choose a primary one? The size and number of parts matter? And so on.
These questions makes me restrict the form to not have moving parts or any other parts that can be easily separated without do damage.
I know that part of the fantasy are things like Tea Kettles with the lid. But I don't now how to do with it was separated. It simply disappears when you switch to another form? Become leave? So I probably allow to transform into a Tea Kettles but without lid or with lid fixed.
B/Is it possible to cheat during a game with a tanuki changing in a dice to crawl on the correct face ?
Yes but not probably has you think. I can consider that you can use Crawl to roll your dice form but not stealthy because you can't use Sneak. So when someone thrown you, you will roll naturally but to switch to a chosen side the observers will notice you rolling by yourself.
C/ If a character has a weapon improviser archetype, is it possible for a tanuki to change in a barrel, crate, hook; box, scale, sign; gavel, goblet, quill, lectern; bottle, mug, serving tray, stool to be an improvised weapon for the other character ?
Yes but I would make you to suffer damage too.
If a familiar has the following abilites :
Lab Assistant : It can use your Quick Alchemy action. You must have Quick Alchemy, and your familiar must be in your space. This has the same cost and requirement as if you used it. It must have the manual dexterity ability to select this.
Toolbearer : Your familiar can carry a toolkit of up to light Bulk. So long as your familiar is adjacent to you, you can draw and replace the tools as part of the action that uses them as if you were wearing them. Your familiar must have the manual dexterity ability to select this.
Item Delivery : If your familiar is adjacent to you, you can Command it to deliver an item. Instead of its normal 2 actions, your familiar Interacts to take an item you’re holding of light Bulk or less, then takes one move action, then finally Interacts to pass off the item to another willing creature. It can instead administer the item to the creature if it can do so with 1 action and has an appropriate type of item (such as alchemical elixir). If your familiar doesn’t reach the target this turn, it holds the item until commanded otherwise. Your familiar must have the manual dexterity ability to select this.
With quick alchemy, you must hold ou wear an alchemist toolkit.
A tanuki can use teakettle form to be an alchemist toolkit, is it right ? The toolbearer permit to a familiar to carry a toolkit.But it is not possible to create a consumable because a familiar must have also a versatile vial or reagents ?
But :
You can store all your versatile vials within your alchemist’s toolkit, with no increase to its Bulk.
If a familiar create a consumable or a vial, a familiar can keep in hand the crafted item ?
If a character is an alchemist and have an alchemical familiar with lab assistant ... abilities, do the familiar know the same formula that the alchemist ? What is the DC ? Class DC from powerful alchemy class feature ?
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A tanuki can use teakettle form to be an alchemist toolkit, is it right ?
Not quite. "When you Change Shape, you can assume the form of a simple tool or object of 1 Bulk or less, such as a teakettle or umbrella." An alchemist's toolkit is definitely not a simple tool or object; it's a complex collection of tools. They can probably turn into a replacement for one of the simpler tools in the toolkit, though?
Unfortunately, this plan falls apart because an alchemist's toolkit is one bulk, not a light bulk. The familiar can't carry it even with Toolbearer.
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I suddenly find myself imagining a legendary tanuki warrior known for never leaving any surviving witnesses.
When confronted by enemy challengers his sword, armor pieces, brush, socks, and other accouterments all turn into highly trained tanuki warriors, leaving him a nearly naked but no less deadly monk. They each take turns being "the legendary warrior." XD
You could have one tanuki infiltrate a location literally carrying an army on his back! :O