I'm thinking you are tripping over the PF2 game balance.
One of the effects of having good game and class balance is that many martial characters have equivalent mechanical power level. And the thing is that Fighter is the top tier class for reliable weapon attacks. If you are comparing any other character concept you come up with to Fighter based on how well they can reliably hit and deal damage, everything else is going to be sub-par compared to Fighter.
The other effect of the game and class balance is that being sub-par is not a significant drawback. The amount of difference between best-in-class and sub-par is not large enough to overwhelm the d20 rolls that are used for deciding outcomes.
So the result is - you can play what feel like an interesting character to play and let the game balance keep things reasonable for success rates.
The perk for Barbarian in comparison to Fighter is the damage per hit.
Bloodrager also gets a feat at level 6 to be able to steal spell power from enemy spellcasters to fuel their own spells. That is something that a Fighter with Wizard archetype wouldn't be able to do.
I'm thinking you are tripping over the PF2 game balance.
One of the effects of having good game and class balance is that many martial characters have equivalent mechanical power level. And the thing is that Fighter is the top tier class for reliable weapon attacks. If you are comparing any other character concept you come up with to Fighter based on how well they can reliably hit and deal damage, everything else is going to be sub-par compared to Fighter.
The other effect of the game and class balance is that being sub-par is not a significant drawback. The amount of difference between best-in-class and sub-par is not large enough to overwhelm the d20 rolls that are used for deciding outcomes.
So the result is - you can play what feel like an interesting character to play and let the game balance keep things reasonable for success rates.
The perk for Barbarian in comparison to Fighter is the damage per hit.
Bloodrager also gets a feat at level 6 to be able to steal spell power from enemy spellcasters to fuel their own spells. That is something that a Fighter with Wizard archetype wouldn't be able to do.
Yep. This is how it is.
The barbarian can be built to do other things well as well. A barbarian can be built to be a better maneuver user than a fighter. To me sub par at a single thing like consistent damage is one aspect of a martial.
You have to analyze each martial to see what they can do.
Even a ranger as an example has things they can do that other martials can't. If you lean into it, then you can build a pretty amazing character. I stepped back from focusing my ranger on doing the most damage on their own and focused on their support capabilities which are surprisingly good. As a flurry ranger being able to lower the MAP on an martial ally is quite powerful, especially in boss fights.
I feel like folks need to remember subpar is a relative term as different classes can do different things better than other classes.
Someone please jump in if I'm off base here, but using Bloodrager Instinct and eschewing all attack rolls feels like you'll be spitting up a rope.
(Also, you have to have at least one cantrip with an attack roll, even if you take nothing else.)
Someone please jump in if I'm off base here, but using Bloodrager Instinct and eschewing all attack rolls feels like you'll be spitting up a rope.
(Also, you have to have at least one cantrip with an attack roll, even if you take nothing else.)
Granted, I am reading the Bloodrager rules from Pathbuilder, so I may be missing something.
From what I see, there isn't all that much benefit that attack roll spells have for Bloodrager. You get to add your Rage damage to the spell. That's about it. Which does fit the theme for Barbarian of having a bit lower accuracy to their main competitor (Fighter, for weapon attacks), but having higher damage on a hit. The Bloodrager casting Ignition is going to have lower accuracy than their Druid companion, but will do more damage if they land it.
The Drained mechanic of casting spells and recovering from that via Harvest Blood doesn't rely on attack roll spells.
So it seems completely reasonable to me to use the Bloodrager spellcasting primarily for buff spells. And the character can still have some backup spells - such as that mandatory cantrip - to use for ranged damage. Which is something that Barbarian often struggles with.
I'm waiting for someone to come along and tell me some super secret tech that makes use of some unique advantage the barbarian has over the fighter to finally break even. But my hope is dwindling the more I look for it.
Fighter is a very powerful class. One of my top three for power level. The other two being Bard and Rogue. Champion and Cleric round out my top 5.
There are several movement class feats that are available to Barbarian. No Escape, Fast Movement, and Raging Athlete come to mind immediately. Fleet would stack with Fast Movement because Fleet is untyped. The others could not be replicated with skill feats. None of those are available to Fighter.
But ultimately, if what you want is a character that is good at hitting bosses and can cast buff spells on themselves, you may be better with a Fighter with a spellcasting archetype. There is nothing wrong with that combination for that purpose.
There is nothing wrong with Bloodrager either. But not every class is going to appeal to every player.
That's always my problem with the Fighter too. It doesn't come with much flavor. It is the pinnacle, generic, weapon user class.
Any character concept that I come up with for a Fighter would be more flavorful and have mechanics support for that flavor with other classes.
Why play a DEX based Fighter when I could play a Swashbuckler instead? Why play a free-hand maneuver Fighter when I could play an Animal Instinct Barbarian? Why play a sword and board Fighter when I could play a Champion? Bow Fighter? How about Flurry Ranger instead - or Starlit Span Magus. Two-hand weapon Fighter? Most Instincts of Barbarian or Inexorable Iron Magus.
The only thing I have to give up for the flavor and the mechanics backing up that flavor is that best-in-game attack bonus that is the Fighter's only unique perk. Anything else that a Fighter can do, another class can do just as well.
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...I'm thinking you are tripping over the PF2 game balance.
One of the effects of having good game and class balance is that many martial characters have equivalent mechanical power level. And the thing is that Fighter is the top tier class for reliable weapon attacks. If you are comparing any other character concept you come up with to Fighter based on how well they can reliably hit and deal damage, everything else is going to be sub-par compared to Fighter.
The other effect of the game and class balance is that being sub-par is not a significant drawback. The amount of difference between best-in-class and sub-par is not large enough to overwhelm the d20 rolls that are used for deciding outcomes.
So the result is - you can play what feel like an interesting character to play and let the game balance keep things reasonable for success rates.
The perk for Barbarian in comparison to Fighter is the damage per hit.
Bloodrager also gets a feat at level 6 to be able to steal spell power from enemy spellcasters to fuel their own spells. That is something that a Fighter with Wizard archetype wouldn't be able to do.
Yep. This is how it is.
The barbarian can be built to do other things well as well. A barbarian can be built to be a better maneuver user than a fighter. To me sub par at a single thing like consistent damage is one aspect of a martial.
You have to analyze each martial to see what they can do.
Even a ranger as an example has things they can do that other martials can't. If you lean into it, then you can build a pretty amazing character. I stepped back from focusing my ranger on doing the most damage on their own and focused on their support capabilities which are surprisingly good. As a flurry ranger being able to lower the MAP on an martial ally is quite powerful, especially in boss fights.
I feel like folks need to remember subpar is a relative term as different classes can do different things better than other
I've played a few barbarians. Both have been been knockdown barbarians using picks with the mauler archetype.
One giant barbarian and one elemental barbarian in a dual class game with kineticist.
Giant barbarian did huge damage and knocked things down easily with reach. Maxed out athletics and took Brutal Bully and Furious Bully on top of Slam Down and the Improved Version so I was doing 1d10 plus Strength knocking things down.
Barbarian can take quite a beating with the 12 hit points a level, so I maxed Con as high as I could go and took Adopted Ancestry to get the added hit points from the dwarf feat that stacks with toughness. Or you could make a dwarf.
Picked up whirlwind attack to go with the giant size feats with the huge reach. I picked up Shattering Blows as it was fun to just rip stuff apart like traps or hazards or doors.
I had fun being a barbarian. I imagine my damage wasn't as consistent as the fighter's, but the spike damage was much higher and there were were rounds where something was just destroyed. Your crits are absolutely nutty. Not quite magus imaginary weapon level, but very high.
You can take a beating. If you make it to 20, Unstoppable Juggernaut makes you ridiculously hard to bring down.
Pretty easy to focus on the four best stats: Str, Dex, Con, Wis.
Legendary Fort saves is pretty nice too.
Barb is not a fighter. Fighter isn't the barb either. I found the barbarian at higher level more fun to play than the fighter, though it was tougher at lower levels. It grew to become a beast of a class at higher level with immense reach, crazy athletics checks, and the like.
When you can grow to huge, you are very hard to swallow or grab as well.
It was a fun class. Did a lot of damage. Had a ton of hit points. Hit like a truck.