Custom Race Balance

[Th'kaal]

I'm trying to make a new race that is balanced with core races. It's what I want the elves to be. At first I was going with the subtype of Great Old One for a Fey, but that was too powerful. I was going to use three illusion spells for various distractions. But I also wanted even the lowest level to be able to do a fey bargain. But that seemed very powerful until I remembered a story my grandmother said.

So, I was wondering, Limited Wish useable once per full moon, only when completing a contract when the elf gets in return something of equal or greater value. At no other time can this be used.

If using the race points, what would you put this as a cost?

[Dasrak]

Even if it's only usable once per month under certain conditions, this is still a 7th level spell-like ability with 1500 gp of material components for free. The entire point of the race point system is to give a rough approximation of how valuable a given racial feature is so you can estimate of the power level (and I want to stress, RP are an estimation, you can create overpowered races with under 10 RP budget, and underpowered ones with over 30). But this ability is just priceless, you can't put a price tag on this because it's just on a completely different level from any other racial ability.

If you want to create something that has this limited wish as a spell-like ability, I'd recommend looking into the monster creation rules rather than the PC race creation rules, targeting somewhere around CR 8+. Just as a comparison, the Marid Genie is able to grant a Wish once per year, and it's a CR 9 monster.

[Azothath]

limited wish = 7*13*10gp +1500gp = 2410gp as NPC casting.
wondrous item command word (7*13*1800 +50*1500) *1/(5+1+1+1)(once per day{5}, 3d, week, month), *2(slotless), *0.70(requires race) = 41790gp as a guestimate for an SLA usable once per month.
The aasimar's(powerful race) lack of -2 is worth 4000gp if you were to buy it off via a standard item, 8000 if slotless.

so roughly 5 times better than an aasimar or about CR +2.

[Th'kaal]

Thank you.

[Diego Rossi]

It would help if you consider the usefulness within a party, too.

Limited Wish:

Limited Wish
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 305
School universal; Level arcanist 7, psychic 7, sorcerer 7, wizard 7
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 1,500 gp)
Effect
Range see text
Target, Effect, Area see text
Duration see text
Saving Throw none, see text; Spell Resistance yes
Description
A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.

Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 4th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
Undo the harmful effects of many spells, such as or insanity.
Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a –7 penalty on its next saving throw.

A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal, but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component (in addition to the 1,500 gp diamond component for this spell).

All groups with which I have played had a party found for healing, Raise dead, group magic items, and other party-related stuff (if Rise dead and the relative Restorations are an individual cost, the melee combatants are at a huge disadvantage).
So, I will consider an inter-party bargain as having a net cost of 0 for several of the spell effects. Sure, the elf/fey needs to receive the compensation. Still, the whole party is paying, and it can be something valuable but not necessarily costly (like getting dibs on a coveted magic item, the party prioritizing a quest that interests the character, and so on).

So, this ability means that the party can get a low or no cost Restoration that can recover lost levels, a Raise dead without the need to find a suitable caster, the ability to remove effects that normally require high-level spells, access to Teleport, or several information-gathering spells from multiple lists.

Wisely used by a party it will give some large benefits.
Unwisely used it will create inter-party problems.

It would be equivalent to +1 cr for the party for a range of levels (probably between 3 and 8). In parties lacking a dedicated healer or a pure arcane spellcaster it can stay relevant for longer.

How useful it is depends on the style of the campaign. If you have a lot of downtime it becomes more useful, in a fast paged campaign it is less useful.

[Azothath]

Paizo with PF1 tries to constrain and limit power by getting specific (often overly specific which kills growth with level) and limiting duration, then turning to expensive foci or expendable material components.
Wish magic is the definition of general/can do anything. So to model this within the game is going to be quite difficult.

A contract is not a real limitation/limit unless paper and ink are prohibitively expensive. An "agreement" would be a verbal contract. Normally players think about wishes and come up with written statements which they run by their GM to get approval and then refine, etc. All that should really be done using the PC's skills with the GM setting DCs rather than being a free infallible font of information. Anyway - that's why this is not a limitation.

A more reasonable way to do it is limited wish with effect of SplLvl=[(Lvl+1)/2] & 9 maximum, Caster level=class level, DC= 12 +effective SplLvl(see above) +Casting Abil or CHA mod, duration as spell up to Lvl Hrs, costing 2d3 Con damage and 200*Lvl XP, usable 1/month.

[zza ni]

As a made up race you won't find any race feats for it so you have to adjust other race feats to fit it.

While a limited wish is as mentioned overpowered and have a high material cost, you might want to consider taking the extra specific feat race build option (it cost less then the free extra feat, since it's a fixed feat) and give the race a re-flavored gifts from the sea feat. (keep the rule text, but change the requirement to this race and remove the sea flavor). this is a watered down 1st level version for a wish, but can get the lure part done. call it 'gift from X' (nature or whatever was supposed to give the wish to your race in the first part)

[Claxon]

Th'kaal wrote:

I'm trying to make a new race that is balanced with core races. It's what I want the elves to be. At first I was going with the subtype of Great Old One for a Fey, but that was too powerful. I was going to use three illusion spells for various distractions. But I also wanted even the lowest level to be able to do a fey bargain. But that seemed very powerful until I remembered a story my grandmother said.

So, I was wondering, Limited Wish useable once per full moon, only when completing a contract when the elf gets in return something of equal or greater value. At no other time can this be used.

If using the race points, what would you put this as a cost?

Are you the GM or a player?

If you're the GM, and you're intending for either all players to play as or no players to have access to this race then it doesn't really matter. If everyone is playing the same race, you don't have to worry about balance between PCs. And if no one is playing it and it's for NPCs, it doesn't really matter, it's just a tool for you.

If you're a player, have you even spoken to your GM to see if they're on board with this?

As a GM, I never let players use the custom race creation rules because they're not balanced. If a player was interested in playing a race that wasn't represented in the rules, I'd talk with them about the concept and work to create something that would fit what I consider to be balanced.