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If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.
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If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.
For recall knowledge checks the crit failure very definitely has a different effect than a regular failure.
Which is partly why I find the intent unclear.
If a crit failure is a failure then
1) dubious knowledge means that there is NO difference between a failure and critical failure (in both cases you get 2 pieces of knowledge, one correct and one incorrect)
2) you absolutely know if you succeeded (you only get correct information)
If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.
What about Exacting Strike?
“Failure This attack does not count toward your multiple attack penalty.”So it does this on any failure including critical?
This does need clarification. Is this a square rectangle situation or not?
If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.What about Exacting Strike?
“Failure This attack does not count toward your multiple attack penalty.”So it does this on any failure including critical?
Strikes don't have a critical failure.
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If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.For recall knowledge checks the crit failure very definitely has a different effect than a regular failure.
Yes, that's why I said if a critital success/failure is not spelled out to have a different effect than a regular roll, it doesn't. Recall knowledge specifies what happens on a crit fail, so that overwrites the normal failure.
If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.What about Exacting Strike?
“Failure This attack does not count toward your multiple attack penalty.”So it does this on any failure including critical?
No, it's a Press. The Press trait says you don't get the failure effect on a critical failure.
Strikes don't have a critical failure.
That's not true. Strikes USUALLY don't have any special effect (other than missing) on a critical failure, but there are numerous abilities that can change that. The fighter's Dueling Riposte comes to mind, which triggers when an enemy ciritically fails an attack against you.
That's not true. Strikes USUALLY don't have any special effect (other than missing) on a critical failure, but there are numerous abilities that can change that. The fighter's Dueling Riposte comes to mind, which triggers when an enemy ciritically fails an attack against you.
Picking nits, but I would think that it is the Dueling Riposte that has the effect triggered by the crit fail. The strike that triggered it still doesn't have an effect on a crit fail other than missing.
There are attacks that do have different effects listed for critical failure - combat maneuvers and such. But I thought I recognized that quote as being a quote from the actual rule book (though I can't remember where)
If a crit failure or crit success is not spelled out to have any other effect, it does have the same effect as a regular failure or success, respectively.
The wording may be slightly different in the rule book, but it was pretty close.
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Strikes may soon have critical failure results, as I believe there are critical hit and critical miss decks in the works.
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Critical miss effects would very, very significantly affect the game and not, imo, in a good way. With multiple attack penalties the way they are critical misses would just be way too common.
Even the second attack with an agile weapon against the boss would often crit fail. I've regularly seen characters need to roll something like an 18 to hit on their second attack. Which makes critical misses occur 40% of the time.
Tossing ANY significant effect on that would make the game a shirt lived comedy of errors.
Even if you fumbled only on a 1 that would still translate to a fumble or so a game session as, by design, combats take around 4-6 rounds and characters throw about 2 or 3 attacks most rounds
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Critical miss effects would very, very significantly affect the game and not, imo, in a good way. With multiple attack penalties the way they are critical misses would just be way too common.
Even the second attack with an agile weapon against the boss would often crit fail. I've regularly seen characters need to roll something like an 18 to hit on their second attack. Which makes critical misses occur 40% of the time.
Tossing ANY significant effect on that would make the game a shirt lived comedy of errors.
Even if you fumbled only on a 1 that would still translate to a fumble or so a game session as, by design, combats take around 4-6 rounds and characters throw about 2 or 3 attacks most rounds
I would see it more as, if the crit fail deck is used (because yes, it's a real product already announced to come in the coming months), it would be a deterrent to use these attacks, so the player would try to think of different tactics (like using trip+assurance, moving more or getting some feats that use an action, without even counting that a shield is much more valuable here).
Everything can have "Critical failure"
it's just that for some things there is no additional effect on critical failure UNLESS specified.
As pointed above, a Strike can "critical fail", usually it's just a failure, but for things like Parry and Etc that trigger on "critical failure" it matters.
This.
Critical failures happen all the time to no extra effect.One of the devs said the only times he believes they matter were in regards to abilities only PCs have (triggering a Reaction). Critical failures are not fumbles though perhaps the GM guide will have that option because it suits many groups (that I would avoid).
That said, I think one of the playtest demon's had an ability too, though the one I'm thinking of (Greed? Avarice?) doesn't seem to have been updated into the PF2 release.
And I expect the Swashbuckler to have several such abilities, perhaps even a vulnerability to them given their advertised high-risk nature.
As for the OP, I find some of the phrasing awkward in the rules.
Occasionally the rules say "failure, but not crit failure" or "failure or crit failure" (which are clear), but then it'll only say "failure" without any qualifier. Much of the time it seems to mean all failures, but then why point that out in other entries?
And vice-versa if the other ruling is default?
For now, I'm sticking to basic English that a critical failure is a failure since there's no clearer answer yet.
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Critical miss effects would very, very significantly affect the game and not, imo, in a good way.I would see it more as, if the crit fail deck is used (because yes, it's a real product already announced to come in the coming months), it would be a deterrent to use these attacks
So you agree that it would very significantly affect the game :-) :-).
I guess that it WOULD weaken those pesky overpowered martials and help the grossly underpowered magic users :-) :-).
I'll pass. Learning one version of PF2 at a time seems quite sufficient to me.
Some abilities trigger on a failure. For example, Dubious Knowledge says "when you fail ...". If I roll a crit fail does it trigger?
The glossary defines a crit fail as a worse failure so, RAW, I think it DOES trigger. But it's pretty unclear to me so I thought that I'd see what others think
I don't believe Dubious Knowledge should trigger on a Critical Failure; you should just get the incorrect information in that case. Now, whether that's WAR is debatable, but that's the way I will be running it. And sure, if it's not a secret roll the player will know it's bad info, but I try to trust my players to not metagame and separate their player knowledge (what they rolled on the d20) with the GM knowledge (of what I gave them). IME, players take the bad information and run with it, to hilarious ends.