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So with the Focus Point Refocus changes and both the classes of Animist at level 10 and beyond, also with Oracles now receiving 4 slots of spells each rank can Psychics get an Errata to be come 3 slot-casters? Instead of this odd focus point master which sits along side Druids and Monks.
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I'm playing a psychic right now. They kind of suck. I'm a Silent Whisper psychic. The psychic cantrips and amps don't really make up for the loss of spell slots. They don't hit hard enough to replace a spell.
The Unleash Psyche penalty is too harsh.
They don't do well in pro-longed enocunters as they have a front-loaded, very blow up fast and early, then you're kind of weak and useless. Doesn't play well in anything but fast and simple encounters.
Very limited class and play-style. Not too impressed with their playability and power level, but a lot of very good conceptual work in the psychic.
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I'm playing a psychic right now. They kind of suck. I'm a Silent Whisper psychic. The psychic cantrips and amps don't really make up for the loss of spell slots. They don't hit hard enough to replace a spell.
The Unleash Psyche penalty is too harsh.
They don't do well in pro-longed enocunters as they have a front-loaded, very blow up fast and early, then you're kind of weak and useless. Doesn't play well in anything but fast and simple encounters.
Very limited class and play-style. Not too impressed with their playability and power level, but a lot of very good conceptual work in the psychic.
I'm playing a Silent Whisper Psychic in Strength of Thousands, currently in Book 6. She's generally been pretty strong as a debuffer with occasional blasts. But anytime you fight something immune to Mental it feels *bad*.
I agree with you on standard Unleash Psyche. I went ahead and went with Dark Persona's Presence, which boosts Unleash Psyche and makes it situational rather than automatic, since it also affects your allies, and that has been an effective choice.
At base, the Occult spell list is so strong the class can't be bad, but it does definitely need something else.
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Yeah, Psychic kinda needs some Remaster rework with the changes to how recharging focus points works. Their unique perk of starting level 1 with 2 focus points and being able to recharge both of them ... isn't so unique any more.
Aside from that, the class isn't any worse than it used to be. It quite literally hasn't changed. It still starts with 2 focus points and the ability to recharge both of them. Its amps and cantrip effects are still quite excellent. pre-Remaster, Psychic was pretty well regarded as far as I heard on these forums. I don't think buffing all of the other spellcaster's focus recharge abilities really nerf'd Psychic so much that I would call it 'bad' now.
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I'm playing a psychic right now. They kind of suck. I'm a Silent Whisper psychic. The psychic cantrips and amps don't really make up for the loss of spell slots. They don't hit hard enough to replace a spell.
The Unleash Psyche penalty is too harsh.
They don't do well in pro-longed enocunters as they have a front-loaded, very blow up fast and early, then you're kind of weak and useless. Doesn't play well in anything but fast and simple encounters.
Very limited class and play-style. Not too impressed with their playability and power level, but a lot of very good conceptual work in the psychic.
I'm playing a Silent Whisper Psychic in Strength of Thousands, currently in Book 6. She's generally been pretty strong as a debuffer with occasional blasts. But anytime you fight something immune to Mental it feels *bad*.
I agree with you on standard Unleash Psyche. I went ahead and went with Dark Persona's Presence, which boosts Unleash Psyche and makes it situational rather than automatic, since it also affects your allies, and that has been an effective choice.
At base, the Occult spell list is so strong the class can't be bad, but it does definitely need something else.
I tried Dark Persona's Presence. It's another example of great conceptual design, but poor implementation. Hitting your allies is a real pain and can cancel out the benefit of using it since it is an emanation.
There really should be some what I would call "pragmatic playtesting" in a variety of situations. Concept is cool, but a great concept badly implemented can make a class feel bad.
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I'm playing a psychic right now. They kind of suck. I'm a Silent Whisper psychic. The psychic cantrips and amps don't really make up for the loss of spell slots. They don't hit hard enough to replace a spell.
The Unleash Psyche penalty is too harsh.
They don't do well in pro-longed enocunters as they have a front-loaded, very blow up fast and early, then you're kind of weak and useless. Doesn't play well in anything but fast and simple encounters.
Very limited class and play-style. Not too impressed with their playability and power level, but a lot of very good conceptual work in the psychic.
I'm playing a Silent Whisper Psychic in Strength of Thousands, currently in Book 6. She's generally been pretty strong as a debuffer with occasional blasts. But anytime you fight something immune to Mental it feels *bad*.
I agree with you on standard Unleash Psyche. I went ahead and went with Dark Persona's Presence, which boosts Unleash Psyche and makes it situational rather than automatic, since it also affects your allies, and that has been an effective choice.
At base, the Occult spell list is so strong the class can't be bad, but it does definitely need something else.
I tried Dark Persona's Presence. It's another example of great conceptual design, but poor implementation. Hitting your allies is a real pain and can cancel out the benefit of using it since it is an emanation.
There really should be some what I would call "pragmatic playtesting" in a variety of situations. Concept is cool, but a great concept badly implemented can make a class feel bad.
Dark Persona is an example of an ability that requires a lot of party build cooperation to use effectively. If you party collectively makes an extensive effort to be really good at will saves vs emotional effects you can exploit it pretty easily with minimal issue but that won't be most parties and it is directing a whole lot of resources toward a single trick which doesn't work on all enemies. There are a fair number of class feats for caster that have similar " your party can really exploit this but it is not that powerful if they don't" types of vibes.
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Personally, the Psychic is a large part in why I like PF2e over DnD 5e, and like Finoan said, the Remaster changes hasn't really hurt the Psychic much.
That said, there are a few things I'd like to have happen when Psychic finally gets Remastered:
1) Make it a 3-slot spell caster, EoC said.
2) Rework or replace the 10th level feat "Dream Guise". It feels WAY to situational compared to the other Subconscious Mind feats.
3) A reworked "Oscillating Wave" Conscious Mind. Namely, change it so that you aren't forced to alternate between subtracting and adding energy to your fire/cold spells. Mostly because, odds are, if you're fighting an enemy that's vulnerable to fire/cold, odds are they'll either resist or be immune to the opposite.
4) Add Piercing to the damage type options of Imaginary Weapon. ...Seriously, why does Imaginary Weapon only have Slashing and Bludgeoning damage currently, when the whole idea of the spell is literally "create a weapon out of force and attack with it"?
These next things are stuff I'd like to see for the Psychic... but I understand if they wouldn't be included in whatever book Remasters the Psychic:
5) Two more Subconscious Mind, which allow you to use Wisdom as your primary attribute.
6) Some more Conscious Minds. Like, one revolving around psychic healing/surgery, and one revolving around interacting with ghosts/spirits.
7) Maybe some class feats/additional abilities related to the Conscious minds, perhaps? This last one is the least thought out, admittedly.
Thoughts/Comments?
Seeing the Gatewalkers AP being played at the Glass Cannon Podcast and featuring a Psychic. I think the class needs a rework on the Unleash Psyche and feats with the "Psyche trait".
In practice, it feels very cumbersome and doesn't offer an interesting dynamic for the character. Not to mention how tame the effects are. Specially when you compare it to Animists and Exemplars.
It features all the design ideas behind old Barbarian's Rage and its drawback, while being more short lived (like the old, old, Barbarian Rage from the playtest that only lasted 3 rounds and was quickly abandoned). The difference being that Rage can be accessed at Round 1 and is far more powerful.
If it's to remain short and with a gated trigger (casting spell), then it needs to do far more than access to some fairly tame actions and "extra" focus points (which is basically just two, in practice).
Problem: Can DA be remastered without disabling any page reference it had?
Not a full remaster, no. Think of it more like errata+. Guns & Gears is getting that treatment and while the book page count/layout won't change much, they can change things that don't mess with that.
In this case, that means you could get things like more spell slots, features changed/swapped, but you wouldn't get a bunch of additional Subconscious Minds.
I would say giving the class an extra Focus Point at level 1 and letting them Refocus to full from the get-go, without any restrictions on which focus spells to cast, would probably solve a lot of their current pain points. Unleash Psyche having a downside is fine, and I don't think the class needs to be brought to the level of the Oracle when the Oracle IMO is an outlier that ought to be avoided. If the Psychic is meant to be a class that makes great use of Focus Points, then let them be better at using Focus Points than anyone else.
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I would say giving the class an extra Focus Point at level 1 and letting them Refocus to full from the get-go, without any restrictions on which focus spells to cast, would probably solve a lot of their current pain points. Unleash Psyche having a downside is fine, and I don't think the class needs to be brought to the level of the Oracle when the Oracle IMO is an outlier that ought to be avoided. If the Psychic is meant to be a class that makes great use of Focus Points, then let them be better at using Focus Points than anyone else.
If Psychics are supposed to be the Focus Point class, then it might as well gain more mechanics that recharge it mid combat. And not 1/day stuff or highly situation stuff that only come up once in a blue moon either.
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Problem: Can DA be remastered without disabling any page reference it had?Not a full remaster, no. Think of it more like errata+. Guns & Gears is getting that treatment and while the book page count/layout won't change much, they can change things that don't mess with that.
A big difference here is that Guns & Gears is completely sold out, so Paizo would need to commission a new print run, in which case remastering the book is an easy call since relatively little in the bulk of the book interacts with anything removed in the remaster.
Neither Dark Archive nor Secrets of Magic are sold out though, and both would be trickier remasters. So I think it's probable that we eventually get a new "magic oriented" book that contains the remaining 4 classes that need remastering, along with new material. Similar to how Gods & Magic was straight up replaced with Divine Mysteries.
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Problem: Can DA be remastered without disabling any page reference it had?Not a full remaster, no. Think of it more like errata+. Guns & Gears is getting that treatment and while the book page count/layout won't change much, they can change things that don't mess with that.A big difference here is that Guns & Gears is completely sold out, so Paizo would need to commission a new print run, in which case remastering the book is an easy call since relatively little in the bulk of the book interacts with anything removed in the remaster.
Neither Dark Archive nor Secrets of Magic are sold out though, and both would be trickier remasters. So I think it's probable that we eventually get a new "magic oriented" book that contains the remaining 4 classes that need remastering, along with new material. Similar to how Gods & Magic was straight up replaced with Divine Mysteries.
I think DA would be fine to "remaster" in the way guns and gears is, especially compared to secrets of magic, which we already know is being remastered piecemeal, with runelord coming up in that schools book.
To my knowledge, DA would only need tweaks in a similar manner to guns and gears, which while there are still issues with page limits, I think it's within paizo's power to do. (That is to say, I don't know how easy it would be, but I think it's easier than a whole new book)
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So with the Focus Point Refocus changes and both the classes of Animist at level 10 and beyond, also with Oracles now receiving 4 slots of spells each rank can Psychics get an Errata to be come 3 slot-casters? Instead of this odd focus point master which sits along side Druids and Monks.
I think they could definitely do with a bit of a look, but I'd much rather they make the rest of their kit more powerful than make them a 3 slot caster. That'd be a power boost in the most generic way, I think it'd be a lot more fun for them to keep their current identity instead.
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So with the Focus Point Refocus changes and both the classes of Animist at level 10 and beyond, also with Oracles now receiving 4 slots of spells each rank can Psychics get an Errata to be come 3 slot-casters? Instead of this odd focus point master which sits along side Druids and Monks.I think they could definitely do with a bit of a look, but I'd much rather they make the rest of their kit more powerful than make them a 3 slot caster. That'd be a power boost in the most generic way, I think it'd be a lot more fun for them to keep their current identity instead.
While I can understand the importance of class identity, Cantrips+ isn't very compelling as a class identity, because Cantrips+ isn't going to do very much compared to most any other class feature (and is easily poached by other classes). Heck, I'd even say Familiars are a stronger class identity by comparison, and I absolutely can't stand Familiars.
And yes, 3 slot casting is boring, but it's also the most streamlined boost to grant and also the easiest to implement with errata, all without compromising class power/budget. Really, if 3 slot casting is the bare minimum (barring Wave Casting, of which Psychics are not), then bumping them to the bare minimum likewise doesn't invalidate the opportunity to either implement something more interesting (if Paizo is willing to put forth the effort and staffing to do so), or to break the balance of the game, all while making a fair amount of players happy/happier with the class.
Plus we have a few examples of 3 slot casters being more than potent with the likes of Druids, Bards, Clerics, and Witches (not to mention potentially Wizards and Animists as well), and if we consider Cantrips+ to be a comparable feature to Druids versatility, Clerics Fonts, Bards Composition Spells, and Witches Familiars, then there really isn't a serious issue to provide them with that buff.
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I’m of the camp that Cantrips+ is a perfectly good niche to have, and the Psychic offers many valuable options in that department. In fact, until the remaster, the class was an extremely popular and well-liked caster, and the only reason that changed is because the remaster didn’t benefit them as much as others. I would thus prefer them to have more FP casting than slot-based casting, and I also believe that with the right changes, you could solve several problems at once. For instance:
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Uncommon, Focus, Psychic, Spellshape
You amplify a psi cantrip with a thoughtform. If your next action is to cast a psi cantrip, you apply its amp effect. If you’re heightening the cantrip, you apply its amp heightened effect as well. Some psychic feats may let you apply different amp effects instead of the psi cantrip’s listed amp effect.
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With the above, you’d get to buff the Psychic at what they excel, i.e. amping their psi cantrips, but also mitigate the Magus + imaginary weapon combo, killing two birds with one stone. The Psychic only gets one spellshape feat, and only at 20th level to cast low-rank slot spells without expending a spell slot, so this wouldn’t interfere with the way they’d cast and amp their psi cantrips normally.
I imagine Psychic would have been given similar treatment if it wasn't part of the Dark Archives book, which wasn't (initially) part of the Remaster scope, so it's entirely possible with the next wave of errata, they may get some or all of these benefits.
That being said, Oracle is kind of already doing the Focus spells better than the Psychic is, since they can utilize both their Cursebound values as well as their Focus Point values, so it's starting to feel more like Oracle is overshadowing the Psychic (despite simply being a 3 or 4 slot Divine spellcaster) at their own game, especially since Focus Spells/Feats > Cantrips+, and they get more slots by comparison, and Psychic gets basically nothing in return. Yes, Oracles have to deal with the Curse, but skilled players use this more to their advantage than they do to their detriment, not unlike Psychics that know the right time for their Unleash Psyche feature (which is harder to time/utilize by comparison, in my personal opinion).
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Cantrips+ isn't very compelling as a class identity, because Cantrips+ isn't going to do very much compared to most any other class feature (and is easily poached by other classes).
I don't mind the powers themselves, but you are right it is the fact that they can be poached so easily which strips the Psychic of any real mechanical identity.
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Cantrips+ isn't very compelling as a class identity, because Cantrips+ isn't going to do very much compared to most any other class feature (and is easily poached by other classes).I don't mind the powers themselves, but you are right it is the fact that they can be poached so easily which strips the Psychic of any real mechanical identity.
Eh, it's not as bad as the Oracle Archetype, which lets you grab all of the Oracle abilities by level 4. With Psychic, most you can get are two psi cantrips, no Conscious, Subconscious, or Unleashed Psyche (which also means no Psyche actions).
I do think Unleash Psyche could stand to be buffed a little. Namely, by giving class feats that would provide bonuses to Non-damaging spells.
Like, as an example:
Empowered Recovery 8th level feat
Prerequisites: Your Psyche is Unleashed
You can channel the force of your unleashed power to heal as well as harm. When you cast a healing spell, you gain a bonus to the amount healed equal to double the spell's rank. This only applies to spells without a duration.
Another buff for Unleash Psyche could be that, as the Psychic levels, they gain a bonus to the flat DC checks to cast spells while stupefied. But only when it's caused by Unleash Psyche.
What do you guys think?
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I don't mind the powers themselves, but you are right it is the fact that they can be poached so easily which strips the Psychic of any real mechanical identity.
This is a good point. It may be better not to give the Psychic multiclass archetype access to amps at all, even if they can access better-than-average psi cantrips in limited amounts. This would still let the multiclass archetype have its own niche with those psi cantrips, but would avoid someone like a Sorcerer or an Oracle having essentially the full power of a Psychic just by taking the dedication and using their Focus Points for amped psi cantrips, which are made to be much stronger than pretty much any other focus spell.
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Instead of increasing spell slots, what if the psychic was the one class that has a larger focus pool. What if they had a max focus pool of 6 instead of 3?
It depends on the conscious mind. Some would struggle to use 4 in a single encounter without borrowing a cantrip from another conscious mind (which, while strong, shouldn't feel like an absolute requirement).
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I'm kind of surprised at the posts suggesting the class' mechanics fundamentally don't work or are broken by the archetype. The premaster psychic was largely in a good spot, we already know the core systems work well. The primary reason it feels bad now is that its unique feature is now less unique because of the focus changes. Knowing that it feels weird to jump to amps somehow being a bad feature when they weren't a few months ago.
Fixing the class should come down to streamlining and improving what its good at, not making it more generic or partitioning off chunks of it.
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Psychic worked sort of in spite of itself. Unleash Psyche has been awkward since launch (combining even more comicated timing questions than Pre-remaster, a far more punishing drawback, and anti-synergy with much of the occult spell list). Coasting on having the best focus spells doesn't work now that the gap between amped psi cantrips and other focus spells has narrowd so much. There are still a few standouts (Message, Guidance, Shatter Mind, and Imaginary weapon), but most of the others are merely decent. It doesn't help thag three of the aforementioned standouts can be poached with multiclassing.
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Whatever changes are made it is pretty much essential that a psychic relying on Imaginary Weapon and Shatter Mind NOT be made more powerful.
I'm playing a Psychic with both of those (together with Tentacular limbs from sorcerer) and it really does NOT need to be improved.
Round 1 - Move, defensive magics, whatever
Round 2, 3 - Unleash Psyche and kick major butt with whichever of Imaginary Weapon and Shatter fits the encounter.
Round 4+ - Hopefully we're in mop up mode at this point and I can probably get by with cantrips.
In general, my actual spell slots are there for utility, healing, etc. I've had adventuring days where I've used none of them :-).
I agree that there are lots of other choices that could do with improving. But they have to be careful to not improve the class over all as it really doesn't need it.
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I'm having a blast with my PFS Gnome Distant Grasp/ Emotional Acceptance Psychic! With the Energized Font ancestry feat, he can start one encounter a day with the possibility of using 4 focus spells in the 1 encounter. Now, being PFS, he hasn't needed to, nor really had the opportunity, but it's there if I need it! *Hmmm..a gnome psychic with a familiar could start with 5*
He generally manages to do a competitive amount of damage with amped cantrips, and the Unleashed recovery has yet to be a serious factor.
So far through 8 levels, he has only failed to overcome stupefied twice, and both times, the next one in initiative order has ended the battle.
What is kind of frustrating, is when he uses the amped ray of frost he got from Parallel Breakthrough, gets a boatload of temporary HPs...and nobody attacks him!!
If they want to keep the theme of relying on their focus spells so much more than any other caster, hence why they have less spells than any other caster, maybe something like:
"When Unleashed your first focus spell of the round doesn't cost a focus point"
can work.
Effectively, it's up to +2 focus points per fight but only if you unleash.
That would do next to nothing for Distant Grasp, Oscillating Wave or tangible dream. 3 focus points is plenty when your only thing to spend them on is 2 action spells*. Giving more focus points only buffs half of the conscious minds.
*While OW and TD do have a 1 action amp, Thermal Stasis is very situational and Amped Shield only works once every 10 minutes
I think a big part of the problem is Psychic relies on cantrips that don't scale particularly well. Spells tends to scale in a slightly non-linear manner.
1st and 2nd: First tier.
3rd-5th: Second tier.
6th to 10: last tier.
Psychic cantrips fall off big in that last tier range at providing a competitive effect or competitive damage. Psychic starts to feel less powerful the higher level you obtain barring a few cantrips that have been pointed out like Shatter Minds or Imaginary Weapon.
I think they need to review the scaling of psychic cantrips to make sure they feel good at all levels when camped and scale more like spells as the cantrips are the psychic's main abilities.
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I think a big part of the problem is Psychic relies on cantrips that don't scale particularly well. Spells tends to scale in a slightly non-linear manner.
1st and 2nd: First tier.
3rd-5th: Second tier.
6th to 10: last tier.Psychic cantrips fall off big in that last tier range at providing a competitive effect or competitive damage. Psychic starts to feel less powerful the higher level you obtain barring a few cantrips that have been pointed out like Shatter Minds or Imaginary Weapon.
I think they need to review the scaling of psychic cantrips to make sure they feel good at all levels when camped and scale more like spells as the cantrips are the psychic's main abilities.
Just want to shout out Glimpse Weakness as a top-tier psychic cantrip even at high levels. If only because it is only 1-action. I actually prefer to use it *without* amping because it is gloriously spammable and with my rolls the amp never added much to it.
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Psychic cantrips fall off big in that last tier range at providing a competitive effect or competitive damage.
The good ones certainly do NOT fall off, at least when amped.
At what level does imaginary weapon (2 strikes dealing 1d8 + 2d8 per rank above 1 + 2xrank) fall off? Especially if using Tentacular Limb for an absurd reach.
At what level is (rank +2) d10 + 2*rank in a 60 foot cone a poor choice?
Psychic cantrips fall off big in that last tier range at providing a competitive effect or competitive damage.The good ones certainly do NOT fall off, at least when amped.
At what level does imaginary weapon (2 strikes dealing 1d8 + 2d8 per rank above 1 + 2xrank) fall off? Especially if using Tentacular Limb for an absurd reach.
At what level is (rank +2) d10 + 2*rank in a 60 foot cone a poor choice?
From the same post you clipped.
Psychic starts to feel less powerful the higher level you obtain barring a few cantrips that have been pointed out like Shatter Minds or Imaginary Weapon.
Not sure why people clip a post that covered the subject to try to make it seem wrong, but boy it happens often.
All the cantrips should be brought up that level given the Psychic relies almost completely on amped cantrips.
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If we rebalance the Psychic cantrips and make them 3 slot casters, it might be enough to fix them.
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Something I'm confused about when people hype up Amped Imaginary Weapon:
The rules say that the two attacks MUST be against different targets. While it will be more damaging as scales (since Amped Imaginary Weapon heightens damage at 2*rank instead of rank), you still have to make them against different enemies. So, you can't really use it against a lone Boss...
Also, I feel like the best way to buff Unleash Psyche is to remove the spell failure chance from the stupefy it inflicts. And yeah, I know it's a flat 6 DC, but still, what if your dice rolls just suck?
If we rebalance the Psychic cantrips and make them 3 slot casters, it might be enough to fix them.
And this. I would gladly support this.
Amped imaginary weapon is good on the Magus, and specifically the Magus. Most casters are too squishy to want to risk going into melee for the attack, especially the Psychic who's a 6 HP/level cloth caster, and most martials aren't going to want to pick a spell attack that they'd be casting with far worse accuracy than their regular Strikes. It's specifically the Magus who's both tanky enough to make use of the spell (and fire it from range, if they're Starlit Span), and who has a mechanic tailor-made to let them bypass the spell attack roll and instead use their much better weapon attack roll. Even then, using Focus Points on a non-conflux spell means a melee Magus will have more trouble recharging their Spellstrike while doing other useful things, except on a Starlit Span Magus who can easily just Spellstrike + recharge every turn. On anyone else opting into the dedication, amping guidance is likely to get you far better returns.
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Something I'm confused about when people hype up Amped Imaginary Weapon:
The rules say that the two attacks MUST be against different targets. While it will be more damaging as scales (since Amped Imaginary Weapon heightens damage at 2*rank instead of rank), you still have to make them against different enemies. So, you can't really use it against a lone Boss...Also, I feel like the best way to buff Unleash Psyche is to remove the spell failure chance from the stupefy it inflicts. And yeah, I know it's a flat 6 DC, but still, what if your dice rolls just suck?
If we rebalance the Psychic cantrips and make them 3 slot casters, it might be enough to fix them.And this. I would gladly support this.
What do you usually do with any character when your rolls suck?
You suck it up and hope your team mates pick up the slack that round and win the day!Or maybe plan ahead for that inevitability and do something helpful that isn't affected by stupefy.
Amped imaginary weapon is good on the Magus, and specifically the Magus. Most casters are too squishy to want to risk going into melee for the attack, especially the Psychic who's a 6 HP/level cloth caster, and most martials aren't going to want to pick a spell attack that they'd be casting with far worse accuracy than their regular Strikes. It's specifically the Magus who's both tanky enough to make use of the spell (and fire it from range, if they're Starlit Span), and who has a mechanic tailor-made to let them bypass the spell attack roll and instead use their much better weapon attack roll. Even then, using Focus Points on a non-conflux spell means a melee Magus will have more trouble recharging their Spellstrike while doing other useful things, except on a Starlit Span Magus who can easily just Spellstrike + recharge every turn. On anyone else opting into the dedication, amping guidance is likely to get you far better returns.
I like to take Imaginary weapon on some casters and use it with reach spell.
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This isn't a case of bad rolls, it's a case of unnecessary barriers to the class that don't serve a purpose other than to impose having a bad time.
What if the Barbarian's Rage feature meant that he had a Flat 6 DC to even make a Strike, because he's so mad because he can't see straight? What about a Rogue that has a Flat 6 DC to hit an enemy that's offguard because he accidentally startled his target, thereby causing him to get startled and ruin his approach, or a Ranger companion that has a Flat 6 DC to go after a hunted enemy because sometimes that dog just doesn't hunt? Or the Swashbuckler has to make a Flat 6 DC while having Panache because sometimes he can't stick his landing and makes himself look more like a clown than a person of flair?
That's kind of what the Unleash Psyche feels like to me, and it's just a terribly designed ability, especially when you consider classes like Animist and Sorcerer don't have such drawback gimmicks, while having the same (if not superior) benefits.
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This isn't a case of bad rolls, it's a case of unnecessary barriers to the class that don't serve a purpose other than to impose having a bad time.
What if the Barbarian's Rage feature meant that he had a Flat 6 DC to even make a Strike, because he's so mad because he can't see straight? What about a Rogue that has a Flat 6 DC to hit an enemy that's offguard because he accidentally startled his target, thereby causing him to get startled and ruin his approach, or a Ranger companion that has a Flat 6 DC to go after a hunted enemy because sometimes that dog just doesn't hunt? Or the Swashbuckler has to make a Flat 6 DC while having Panache because sometimes he can't stick his landing and makes himself look more like a clown than a person of flair?
That's kind of what the Unleash Psyche feels like to me, and it's just a terribly designed ability, especially when you consider classes like Animist and Sorcerer don't have such drawback gimmicks, while having the same (if not superior) benefits.
And even worse is that focus points and spells are finite resources. If you miss that stupefy check on a psychic, you lose the rare spell or the focus point until you refocus. So even more terrible than a flat check to miss on a strike which is unlimited.
All this for basically double damage to what every sorcerer now gets with four spell slots and focus spells and blood magic effect.
On top of pretty bad feats.
Psychic is not a great class.
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This isn't a case of bad rolls, it's a case of unnecessary barriers to the class that don't serve a purpose other than to impose having a bad time.
What if the Barbarian's Rage feature meant that he had a Flat 6 DC to even make a Strike, because he's so mad because he can't see straight? What about a Rogue that has a Flat 6 DC to hit an enemy that's offguard because he accidentally startled his target, thereby causing him to get startled and ruin his approach, or a Ranger companion that has a Flat 6 DC to go after a hunted enemy because sometimes that dog just doesn't hunt? Or the Swashbuckler has to make a Flat 6 DC while having Panache because sometimes he can't stick his landing and makes himself look more like a clown than a person of flair?
That's kind of what the Unleash Psyche feels like to me, and it's just a terribly designed ability, especially when you consider classes like Animist and Sorcerer don't have such drawback gimmicks, while having the same (if not superior) benefits.
And even worse is that focus points and spells are finite resources. If you miss that stupefy check on a psychic, you lose the rare spell or the focus point until you refocus. So even more terrible than a flat check to miss on a strike which is unlimited.
All this for basically double damage to what every sorcerer now gets with four spell slots and focus spells and blood magic effect.
I agree with most of what you said, Deriven, but I disagree on that highlighted section:
Sorcerous is NOT superior to Unleash Psyche. It's not worse either, mind you. Both have drawbacks (although I fully agree, the flat failure chance needs to be removed).
Sorcerous Potency only works with spells that are cast from spell slots.
Meanwhile, Unleashed Psyche only works with damaging spells.
Not better, not worse.
Also, I feel like it REALLY doesn't make sense to compare the feature of a PreMastered class to a feature from a ReMastered class. Especially since (Wizards and Oracles (maybe?) aside) the Remastered version tend to be improved.
Also, I feel like it REALLY doesn't make sense to compare the feature of a PreMastered class to a feature from a ReMastered class. Especially since (Wizards and Oracles (maybe?) aside) the Remastered version tend to be improved.
I disagree, because several Premaster classes still hold up with all the Remastered classes. Nobody is saying Magus, Gunslinger, Summoner, et. al. are bad because they aren't Remastered, and they are mostly at or near the balance point of the other classes, and really, even if they do get Remastered, they might only need a couple tweaks (like Magus ignoring AoOs for Spellstrike while in Arcane Cascade, for example) at most.
Psychic does not fit into the current game very well because its balance point was both poached (by Oracle via Cursebound) and invalidated (Cantrips+ isn't that good, and the only 2 slot casters are Flexible Spellcasters or Wave Spellcasters, of which the Psychic is neither). If anything, Psychic is probably the new weakest class in the game right now, and it having an even weaker feature than classes that get more bang for its buck, even Premaster.
I played an oscillating wave psychic in a completed Abomination Vaults campaign. I leaned into being from Cheliax and the whole powers of hell, fire and ice theme that the oscillating wave provides. I was not really impressed with many of the class feats so ended up multiclassing into diabolic sorcerer and she thought that she got her powers from Eiseth. She was also a tiefling who was beautiful since she was of Erinyes background. She was a lot of fun to play.
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Ok, I'm seeing lots of posts from people who are actually PLAYING psychics who seem to like their characters and lots of posts from people who don't like psychics but who do NOT seem to say that they are actually playing one (they may well have done so and haven't said that, of course).
So, my question is, for those of you who have actually played a psychic as your main class (NOT as an archetype) for, say, at least 2 levels, how many of you were satisfied with the class?
I'll start. I have and I was very satisfied with the experience. It contributed bunches to the group and was fun to play.
I play a psychic in PFS. I stand by my unfavorable comparison of Unleash Psyche with Rage, and the reduced spell slots mean that even in quests I'm agonizing over whether or not to spend each one. I've considered rebuilding the character, but the concept is so intimately tied up with the Oscillating Wave and an Int-based character with innate power (as opposed to learning magic like a witch or wizard). The class's fantasy and mechanics captured my imagination, but the character's performance on the tabletop is intensely frustrating. Part of me looks forward to rank 3 spells and fireball, but at the same time I get fewer fireballs than other casters and can't apply my damage steroid to the fireball on the first turn (The optimal time to cast fireball in most cases).