Blinded condition question

[The Total Package]

The blinded condition states:

You can't see. All normal terrain is difficult terrain to you. You can't detect anything using vision. You automatically critically fail Perception checks that require you to be able to see, and if vision is your only precise sense, you take a –4 status penalty to Perception checks. You are immune to visual effects. Blinded overrides dazzled.

But I have heard it inflicts flat footed as well? Along with a 50% miss chance as well? Why isn't it stated in the condition itself?

[shroudb]

It doesn't say that because that only happens when Vision is your only Precise sense.

When vision is indeed your only precise sense, then basically everyone is Hidden from you.

And Hidden is:

Quote:

While you're hidden from a creature, that creature knows the space you're in but can't tell precisely where you are. You typically become hidden by using Stealth to Hide. When Seeking a creature using only imprecise senses, it remains hidden, rather than observed. A creature you're hidden from is off-guard to you, and it must succeed at a DC 11 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect or it fails to affect you. Area effects aren't subject to this flat check.

A creature might be able to use the Seek action to try to observe you.

Which does indeed inflict the off-guard and the miss chance that you were talking about.

[Claxon]

It probably would have been good if the blinded condition had some explicit reminder that if you're blinded, creatures become hidden to you, unless you Seek them.

But yeah, Shroudb is right.

[SuperParkourio]

Not unless. A successful Seek cannot render the target observed if you do not have any precise senses that can detect them.

[Errenor]

Claxon wrote:

It probably would have been good if the blinded condition had some explicit reminder that if you're blinded, creatures become hidden to you, unless you Seek them.

It seems "You can't detect anything using vision" should have meant that, but yeah, could be clearer.

P.S. And yes, SuperParkourio is correct, Seek won't solve this, 'hidden' is the best outcome without any other precise sense.

[SuperBidi]

I far prefer the way they wrote Blinded than Invisible. The rules about Senses are excellent and then the Invisible Condition just repeats them but with mistakes so you don't know what's true and what's not...

[SuperParkourio]

Yeah, the invisible condition itself fails to mention that becoming invisible while observed makes you hidden instead of undetected.

[Unicore]

This is also why blind-fight is one of the most powerful feats in game, especially as so few NPCs have it. It counters the off-guard condition and decreases the miss chance by 30. When the party is prepared to exploit it, its a huge boost.

[Claxon]

SuperParkourio wrote:

Not unless. A successful Seek cannot render the target observed if you do not have any precise senses that can detect them.

Sorry, poorly worded on my part.

If you're blinded, I imagine the detection level you have of the enemy (assuming you only have sight as a precise sense) is Undetected (which means you're aware of the enemy, but that's basically it) and Seeking can change that to Hidden.

[Ravingdork]

Unicore wrote:

This is also why blind-fight is one of the most powerful feats in game, especially as so few NPCs have it. It counters the off-guard condition and decreases the miss chance by 30. When the party is prepared to exploit it, its a huge boost.

Have witnessed this several times myself and can confirm.

[Deriven Firelion]

Unicore wrote:

This is also why blind-fight is one of the most powerful feats in game, especially as so few NPCs have it. It counters the off-guard condition and decreases the miss chance by 30. When the party is prepared to exploit it, its a huge boost.

I definitely take Blind-fight when I can. Great feat. Works with ranged weapons.

[Perpdepog]

Not really the topic of the thread, but now I'm surprised there isn't a later feat to build off Blind-Fight, something that removes the miss chance from Hidden enemies entirely or something like.