How do I build a good cloistered cleric


Advice


I'm trying to figure out ways to build an effective, let's say optimized cloistered cleric with Free archetype rules. Race and stat array? Which deity would you go with? Which focus spells do you like?

Dark Archive

You should prioritize getting a 1 action offensive combat focus point spell and then getting 3 focus points as quickly as possible (can be done by L4 with free archetype). That could be with hurtling stone (e.g., earth domain) in class or going outside of class for hand of the apprentice (wizard), elemental toss (sorcerer), amped guidance/glimpse weakness (psychic), etc. That way you can cast a 2 action spell + 1 action (or reaction) focus spell and have a really consistent first 3 rounds.

Emblazon Armament + Raise Symbol is silly powerful when you need it.

Skill Monkey Cleric:

- Dream Domain L1 focus spell for out of combat utility knowledge monkey buffing. Doesn't even have to be on you but a +1/2/3 status bonus for an hour on INT or CHA skills is wonderful.

- Knowledge domain for extra know it all power and/or Sleepwalker Dedication for rolling skills with advantage.

- Elf/Half Elf with L5 ageless patience feat.

Meme Hand of the Apprentice (HotA) Cleric
- Go to the Cloudstrike (cleric) tab for the free archetype version (though I do have a PFS version).

- This meme build focuses all its attention on getting the wizard hand of the apprentice spell optimized so for 3 rounds of combat you can pretend to be a fighter (but otherwise cannot use this weapon at all lol). Throw your 1D12 bastard sword over 500ft away and watch it fly back to your hands as you weave spells into your turn to turn routine.

- HoTA is one of the only spells that can get an item bonus to hit on your spell attack roll and carries all the weapon runes and modifiers to that (e.g., jolt coil damage riders, emblazon energy 1D4-6, alchemical weapon siphon, energy mutagens, etc.).

- If your GM/Table/Players say it doesn't work then please reference my full breakdown here. The rules work, despite people not wanting casters to have nice things.

- Note that at L8 it is trying to get the alchemist dedication and now that PC2 is out this is a bit outdated, but fundamentally fill your weapon siphon with a cheap L1 bombs (GP shouldn't be too bad). You can use the dedication to get bombs, but probably its better to add in mutagens via a shifting spider collar (L5 item that lets you free action mutagen as a free action at the start of combat). Your best bet is likely an energy mutagen which adds +1 to +2D6 damage or a fury cocktail which gives a +1 item bonus to hit over typical weapon runes. Personally, the downsides of the energy mutagen are something you can more easily fix/resolve vs. the -1 AC on the fury mutagen).


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Cloistered is more of a pure caster. You may want to pick a deity like Nethys or any deity with good spells and good focus spells.

Then maybe archetype into druid since it will synergize well with wisdom as a main stat. Primal list is good for blasting.

Focus on Wisdom, Dex, Con, then whatever else you want to be good at.

Then grab a bow with an ancestry feat as a third action and cantrip blast electric arc or frostbite, fire the bow as a third action.

Heal will be a nice bread and butter spell with damage fairly decent with a bow and blasting cantrip.


The simple way is just picking more domains with domain initiate to get to 3 focus points quickly and going Rogue archetype, as it also gives you light armor for the lvls 1-12 and access to feats like Mobility, Trap finder and Skill Mastery.

Dark Archive

Dragonblood heritage with Scaly Hide is also an option to give a caster some armor.


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This is all good advice...if it matches what you want.
"Good" is very relative to what you're trying to accomplish, what role in the party you want to fill. An 18 Wisdom backed w/ Dex & Con for durability will get you to "good" automatically. Now what else do you want to do? What kind of party are you traveling with?
Heal more? Take Medic.
Blast more? Much of the advice above covers that.
Extra skills? Rogue Archetype, unless there's a specific skill, then there's likely an archetype based around it.
Party needs a face? Go with Intimidation for a good 3rd action, maybe Rogue Archetype to boosts skills faster (and plump up the low amount Cleric's get).
Does the party need Recall Knowledge holes filled? Need longer buffs? Want consumables to suit tricky situations? As well as healer/caster, you can fill most any role that doesn't involve melee combat, at least as a good secondary or backup, maybe even primary, but it all matters on what you call good in the context of what would be good in the party and campaign (which have much more impact on builds than in previous editions IMO).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Also the spells you plan to slot each have a range and depending on your AC and HP you will want to be careful not to pick spells that require you to get too close.
Touch to 15ft you'll want to have good AC, decent con, toughness, invest in armor and shield block.
30ft still be careful that is just 1 action away from enemy strikes, count on needing to defend yourself from at least two strikes in a turn per creature in range.
more than 30 ft brings a lot of early game creatures down to 1 action if they pursue you meaning you might only need to survive 1 strike per creature in range in a turn.


Excellent help thus far, so would going wyrmkin for example to grab draconic barrage be very good as it'll basically give me after the first round a good consistent single action attack to pair with a spell?


The Total Package wrote:
Excellent help thus far, so would going wyrmkin for example to grab draconic barrage be very good as it'll basically give me after the first round a good consistent single action attack to pair with a spell?

It'll be good, and personally I love Draconic Barrage more than perhaps it deserves. It takes several level IMO to become worthwhile, and then for standard or easy fights where you can spare that first round's casting. In a tougher fight you'll need to cast top-level spells every round, and likely move or put up Shield to survive. And usefulness will depend somewhat on party tactics too, as well as Recall Knowledge so you can make best use of the elements you roll. Hopefully other PCs can aid there. If you can precast it, like say right before opening a door, that'd be best, being essentially a short-term buff. Heck, if you get a bad set of elements for the expected conflict, you might have time to Refocus and try again.

I also like that the domain has some cool deities, so your PC's roleplaying aspect can flourish too.

Sovereign Court

I think a "optimized enough" cloistered cleric is fairly straightforward;

* Max out Wisdom. This determines how strong your spells will be. (It also helps with saving throws, perception and skill.)

* Fix your armor class. Easy ways are to spend a feat on armor proficiency (level 1 as human, 3 as any other ancestry), take rogue dedication (level 2 as anyone, level 1 as ancient elf) for light armor proficiency, or dragonblood ancestry with scaly hide. You can also go with champion or sentinel dedication. Ideally AC is 18 at level 1 but that puts some limits on your choice of ancestry. By level 3 you should have it sorted out though (and have an AC of 20).

* Pick a deity that allows Healing font.

* Pick a deity that lets you have Holy sanctification, because fiends are extremely common enemies, also far into the late levels, and this gives you a big boost against them.

* Pick a decently high Constitution and Dexterity as well.

Those are what I'd consider the most essential optimizations. Less important but useful:

* Prioritize the Medicine skill and get Continual Recover / Ward Medic early.

* Charisma makes for a good fourth ability score to boost. As a cleric you're often expected to do some social things. Also, Intimidate/Demoralize can work really well as a spellcaster to soften up targets for your spells.

* When selecting a deity, look for good spells and good domains. Bonus points for Tailwind, Sure Strike, Fireball, Haste, Slow, and Wall of Force.

* If your deity has a good ranged/thrown weapon, get one. In many combats, enemies aren't going to get close to you because your party is doing its job and holding the front line. Doing a non-attack spell plus a shortbow shot is more powerful than casting Shield "just in case" when you know they're not gonna get to you anyway.

In any case, also talk with the rest of your party to see what they're building. Maybe there are some good combos that you can build together.


Everything said by Ascalaphus and others

Consider a couple of useful focus spells. These are renewable resources.

Make sure you have some single action options that are useful to do with a 2 action spell.

Try to get yourself a useful reaction. There is not a lot in your spells so consider something from an ancestry or even just Aid. But you may want to multiclass to get a good reaction.

For a detailed look, go read Tarondor's Guide to the Pathfinder 2e (REMASTERED) Cleric


The Total Package wrote:
I'm trying to figure out ways to build an effective, let's say optimized cloistered cleric with Free archetype rules. Race and stat array? Which deity would you go with? Which focus spells do you like?

If you want an effective character, then all you need to do is max out your Wisdom, start out with some good Dex, and you should have your bases covered. If you really want to optimize, here are my suggestions:

  • For ancestry and heritage, get an Orc and pick the Dragonblood versatile heritage. Select Scaly Hide as your 1st-level ancestry feat, giving you +5 starting AC. If you want to go for a specific harm-based build where your party's mostly undead, consider picking the skeleton ancestry instead of an orc.
  • For your starting stat array, go +4 Wisdom, +3 Dexterity, and +1 Constitution. Your fourth score is up to you, and +1 Charisma will make you better at Demoralizing when necessary.
  • Get yourself a deity that complements the above, ideally with a ranged weapon and good domain spells. Phi Deva might be good if you want to heal, Eiseth if you're going for a damage build and/or have undead party members (Eiseth also happens to have some really good domain spells too).
  • Healing is a simple and easy choice for a healer build; Zeal's domain spell can make for some spicy damage output, especially if you combine it with Channel Smite.
  • Medic and Scroll Trickster both complement a Cleric quite nicely as archetypes. If you're picking Charisma as your fourth score, Marshal might also be one to consider, as it will give you quite a few picks for third actions and let you buff your back line.

    And that's my two cents. You certainly don't need to optimize this hard, but the above should certainly make your Cleric even better at what they can already do.


  • I failed to mention we start at level 14. I was thinking Narriseminek as my Deity to pickup his spells, and domain (Delirium for Ephemeral Hazards) and Syncretism to pickup Draconic Barrage. In regards to this Deity what is a Protean anyways could I go this Deity if I were a half-elf?


    You absolutely can pick Narriseminek as an aiuvarin (half-elf), yes! Proteans are living embodiments of pure chaos, ever-shifting creatures that change themselves on a whim and encourage others to change as well, especially their forms. They look like wingless dragons, and you can find more information about them here.


    So, if you're starting at 14th level it's possible to forgoe picking up armor proficiency if you put an attribute boost into dexterity at every opportunity. You will be one point below the target AC at level 14, but then you can take another attribute boost at level 15 and have the optimal AC while just wearing scroll robes, which also let you keep an emergency scroll handy (Even better if you yourself can create new scrolls, so you can replace the scroll any time you have downtime).

    Hatchets are not great cleric weapons since agile doesn't do much for you (You usually won't make two strikes in a turn) and the thrown range is so short, but since Narriseminek doesn't actually mandate you use his favored weapon, you can use whatever you like. If you're an Aiuvarin, elven weapon familiarity will allow you to use shortbows, which make a good third action and leave a hand free when not attacking which is handy.


    Don't bother with a weapon at that level. It wastes a free hand IMO and you should have developed better alternatives by then (including Draconic Barrage which counts against MAP anyway).
    Use one hand for a staff (whether for breadth or depth, depending) and the other hand for consumables, Treat Wounds, etc.


    I've honestly found staffs pretty underwhelming if they're not sure strike batteries* (which most clerics can't use). They don't scale well unless you're using a personal staff you can add a new rank for every time it's available. If you're looking to expand your apellcasting resources scrolls offer much better bang for your buck. The advantage of a bow is you can cast one of your two highest rank spells with your first two actions and then use your third action for a strike that's similar in power to a martial's second attack. Draconic Barrage is a decent filler spell for cleaning up or for conserving resources in a low stakes encounter, but against serious threats you want something with more immediate effect for your first and second turns, which is why a third action that does not require setup is so handy.

    *And even then, unless you're a Magus or Psychic your 3-4 1st rank slots are probably sufficient to cover your needs.


    Ya I think the Draconic Barrage will be quite strong at that level providing a great third action. From what I'm seeing, the Warpriest (I am playing one currently in another campaign and he is very strong) seems to be better than the Cloistered Cleric, is that about the general consensus? I thought the Cloistered would have caught up to a Marshal in the late game or even caught up to the Warpriest but I'm looking at both characters in Pathbuilder and the Cloistered just seems way less effective?


    The Total Package wrote:
    Ya I think the Draconic Barrage will be quite strong at that level providing a great third action. From what I'm seeing, the Warpriest (I am playing one currently in another campaign and he is very strong) seems to be better than the Cloistered Cleric, is that about the general consensus?

    On the contrary, for a long time Warpriest was seen as the weaker option. Player Core 2's new feats gave the Warpriest a lot more quality of life features and a breadth of new options, but better save progression for your spells is still incredibly strong.

    I'm souring on Draconic Barrage now that I read it closely. 3 actions to make a single spell attack at RankXd6+Casting stat is terrible efficiency the turn you cast it. You could be turning your best martial into a god with a 6th level heroism or debuffing an entire army with Torrent of Spirits at this level. Or just casting "Undo the enemy's turn" with your healing font.


    Ohh, I'm not familiar with Torrent of Spirits? What's your view on Ephemeral Hazards? Seems a bit problematic the more I look at it as it will be difficult to flank medium sized enemies who are in the hazard.

    The level 15 Warpriest I've got is Smiting guys for numbers beyond a fighters. Combo'd with Stoneskin he is almost as tanky as a Champion but not quite, oh and he wields a two handed weapon while doing so, I expect with a Shield he would surpass the Champion. Now he does spend one turn buffing, but in order to guarantee victory is this not a good price to pay?

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