|
Hi
If I cast the spell Echean's Excellent Enclosure ( https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Echean%27s%20Excellent%20 Enclosure ) ... which has a range to touch, an area of an immobile 10 ft radius emanation, and a duration of 1 round/level, and then I die, does the spell persist for its remaining duration?
I'm contemplating a suicide tactic in our current high-level game where I shut down a very powerful, BBEG, enemy spellcaster for 21 rounds (my caster level is 21) while the rest of my party fights the spellcaster's minions. I know I'll die in the antimagic field trapped with the BBEG, but it could be worth it if it lets the other 4 PCs focus on all of the BBEG's mooks and then the BBEG (21 rounds later, with everything else cleaned up).
As far as I know once cast a spell continues until the end of its duration. Think of it as having an internal battery (the spell slot) that will power the spell for 1 round a level, 24 hours, etc. I think there are spells which require you concentrate to maintain them or at least their effects but its late and I can't think of one off the top of my head. Your spell however does not say anything about concentration so as long as you manage to cast it then it will run for its duration whether you are alive or dead.
EDIT
Stumbled across one while checking something for another thread. Gate is instantaneous or concentration so for that one if you were using the concentration variant your death would sever the connection.
|
since you are going to extremis there are two things to consider; target and duration. A spell ends if its requirements can't be met.
When creatures die they go from a living creature to an object and that can end most spells.
The common exception in play is magic jar or shadow projection where the caster changes form and his body is considered dead. Since it is a special state most GMs let it slide and active spells stay on the body.There are probably better tactical options than E Excel Enclsr and dying within it. Sounds like you need the Advice forum.
dead creatures still qualify as creatures. any spell that doesnt have "living creature" still work.
otherwise spells like breath of life (Target: creature touched) couldnt work.Animated dead has "target: dead creature touched". not "object touched"
|
since you are going to extremis there are two things to consider; target and duration. A spell ends if its requirements can't be met.
When creatures die they go from a living creature to an object and that can end most spells.
The common exception in play is magic jar or shadow projection where the caster changes form and his body is considered dead. Since it is a special state most GMs let it slide and active spells stay on the body.There are probably better tactical options than E Excel Enclsr and dying within it. Sounds like you need the Advice forum.
No piece of the rules says that a spell needs to check if it is affecting a valid target after it has been cast.
You check the target when you target it. If the target is invalid the spell fizzles, if the target is valid the spell works and does what it does, even if the status of the target changes after the spell has been cast.(Specific spells can have specific rules that say something different, but it works that way only for that specific spell.)
Otherwise, every spell with a target of "creature touched" (for example Mage Armor) would end as soon as you don't touch the person anymore.
Imagine if haste ended as soon as any of the targets got more than 30 feet away from any of the other targets.
But also a dead creature is just a creature with the dead condition. There is no rules text that it ever counts as an object, though treating a corpse as “also an object” is a reasonable and common ruling
Looking at the ritual I don’t see a target listed in the description. It lists Range as being touch the area as immobile 10-ft.-radius emanation. So, even if dying invalidated a spell because the target is no longer valid it does not do so in this case because you are not the target of the spell.
Antimagic Feild also does not list a target.
|
|
I appreciate the focus on my good advice but I think most posters missed the point of this thread and perhaps only 3 actually looked at the spell in question(the posted url has an error). The OP is pondering terrible tactics that hinge on GM interpretation of a state. As the game is inclusive of english meanings going full pedantic with a shot of denial isn't helpful in this case.
[non-PFS]E Excellent Enclosure:A9 Rng:Tch, not quite so impenetrable...
Wall of Force:K5 {note on disintegrate, disjunction, rod of cancellation, sphere of anhiliation, Hrd:30(40 for the above spell) HP:CL*20.} most of those are quite practical for a BBEG & crew or Party at APL 18+ not to mention Wish, Limt'd Wish.
I addressed the spell in the last line of my original post.
I admit I don't see what state you mean. The spell as I read it has you cast it on a point and then create a sphere that suppresses magic and prevents access. The only thing I could maybe see leading to your interpretation is the sentence saying it calls the emanation into place around you in the description but the spell is range touch so its going to start within arms reach. The OP wasn't asking if the plan is a good one or not they were asking if the spell would end with their death. As I said in my post I don't see anything in this spell to say it would. Its dismissable but doesn't require concentration, the target is a place touched to center the effect. It also works as anti-magic so the BBEG can't cast a spell to break it themselves and would be relying on minions to rescue them (outside the spell) who are fighting the rest of the party.
If I cast the spell Echean's Excellent Enclosure ... which has a range to touch, an area of an immobile 10 ft radius emanation, and a duration of 1 round/level, and then I die, does the spell persist for its remaining duration?
On topic answer:
The rules don't say that spells end when the caster dies, BUT the rules do provide Duration. So long as the duration is still in effect there's no indication that the spell would end.Plus, there are a whole lot of cases of spells lasting after the caster died in Adventure Paths. (Typically via Permanency, or due to a Permanent duration.)
But if you're not sure how your GM would rule it, you should ask them. Don't specify the spell if you want your tactic to be a surprise. Use something like "hey, GM, if I were to cast Antilife Shell, and the bad guy killed me with a range weapon would the spell end right away or at the end of the duration?"
@Azothat your first part of your original post has absolutely no relevance to this thread. The only conclusion I could reach is you were saying the spell would not work after death because of the characters death.
The spell does not have a range of personal it has a range of touch, nor does it have a target. The book states that an emanation functions like a burst but continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. The point of origin is the spot you touched, not the caster.
|
|
@Azothat your first part of your original post has absolutely no relevance to this thread. The only conclusion I could reach is you were saying the spell would not work after death because of the characters death.
The spell does not have a range of personal it has a range of touch, nor does it have a target. The book states that an emanation functions like a burst but continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. The point of origin is the spot you touched, not the caster.
I agree with Mysterious Stranger, Azathoth your first post reads like you are saying the spell wont work because of death. Would have been better to just say something like "While the idea would work I feel there are better options, please post in the advice forum and I'll go into more detail" I think.
The "state" is death/dead body/corpse etc. The game plays loose with those terms and it is a long standing debate as to exactly what they mean as the spell terminology jumps about...
When you state
When creatures die they go from a living creature to an object and that can end most spells.
You should very well know that, regardless of whether or not
I'm not really open to debate on the topic of creature vs object in this thread.
is true, the rules forum is going to push back on that statement :)
|
|
Thanks team. I think it will persist but my gm often asks to see the consensus of the message boards for rulings. I couldn't find a post on this topic, but since I am contemplating this tactic for a session in a couple of weeks I though I could double check in advance.
I know this isn't the advice forum but my tactic isn't quite as crazy as it sounds. We are level 20 with mythic 10. If I die in the enclosure my soul will go to my clone i previously set up, and I can return that way. Heck, even if that fails mythic characters of tier 10 have an immortality ability. Both of these likely knock me out of the battle (which will not be fun for me as a player, because at this point individual battles take many hours), but it could be better than rolling saves against a dominate person spell from the bbeg I will almost certainly fail.
Yes, the enclosure being eliminated is possible, but the hardness is very high, the hit points are very high, and although there is magic to get rid of it I KNOW the bbeg isn't doing it because of the anti magic field (yes, an evil Mook might be able to do it).
Honestly I'm never sure how those interact. If I have mythic immortality (return to life in 24 hours), a clone (when I die my soul jumps to it), legendary item - soul safe (if you die you reform in 24 hours next to it) what takes priority? Can you choose, is there a priority list? What if someone casts soul trap?
For that matter your anti-magic field tactic might cause you problems now that you mention the clone.
Anti-magic
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). Spell-like abilities can be dispelled, but they cannot be counterspelled or used to counterspell.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table 16–1 for a summary of the types of special abilities.
Mythic Immortality: Supernatural
Clone: ? its a spell but your dying in an antimagic field that stops spells and spell like abilities.
Hmmmm then you have the duration running out when things like summons pop back into existence and you did die? Could be a GM call if your soul is free to return and trigger either clone or your mythic immortality as you'll have been dead, dead for the duration of the spell.
With some more information I would strongly suggest running it by your GM and seeing if they're ok with it because this is really going to be an odd interaction of rules. Now if you'll excuse I'm going to google if there's anything on clones and antimagic.
EDIT
Hmmmm so Clone presumes your dead which would mean I think you'd be fine on those grounds. You die in the anti-magic field, soul heads to the afterlife then u-turns into the clone which is outside the field. Allowing you as a spell caster to presumably teleport back to the fight outside the sphere with no equipment if you feel like taking the risk. Alternatively leave all your good gear on the clone knowing you'll die.
Immortal say's if you are killed you return to life 24 hours later.
Soul safe say's if your are killed your body reforms 24 hours later by the legendary item.
So I would say Clone happens before Mythic Immortality/Soul Safe as it happens instantly on death while the other two take 24 hours to work. Though I've no idea which of those abilities would trigger first as they're practically identical. Kind of annoying as you'd be wasting clones when you want them to be saved for if Mythic Immortality/Soul Safe fails for some reason.
EDIT 2
Wandering down the rabbit hole I noticed that mythic immortality is worded . . .
Immortal (Su): At 9th tier, if you are killed, you return to life 24 hours later, regardless of the condition of your body or the means by which you were killed. When you return to life, you aren’t treated as if you had rested, and don’t regain the use of abilities that recharge with rest until you next rest. This ability doesn’t apply if you’re killed by a coup de grace or critical hit performed by either a mythic creature (or creature of even greater power) or a non-mythic creature wielding a weapon capable of bypassing epic damage reduction. At 10th tier, you can be killed only by a coup de grace or critical hit made with an artifact.
there is nothing in there about aging as an exception to the means by which you were killed and longevity is a separate mythic ability you need to take. I am now picturing some mythic rank 10 being stuck in a cycle of dying from old age, ressurecting 24 hours later then promptly dying from old again.
The way I see it there is a difference between being killed and dying. The difference can be very subtle, and obviously if you are killed you die, but not every death is the result of being killed. Being killed implies your death is caused by an outside force. Mythic Immortal specifically states it works if you are killed. Dying of old age is not caused by an outside force, so would not trigger mythic immortal.
This is how I would handle a 9th or 10th tier mythic character that does not have some way of extending their lives.
Thanks team. I think it will persist but my gm often asks to see the consensus of the message boards for rulings. I couldn't find a post on this topic, but since I am contemplating this tactic for a session in a couple of weeks I though I could double check in advance.
I know this isn't the advice forum but my tactic isn't quite as crazy as it sounds. We are level 20 with mythic 10. If I die in the enclosure my soul will go to my clone i previously set up, and I can return that way. Heck, even if that fails mythic characters of tier 10 have an immortality ability. Both of these likely knock me out of the battle (which will not be fun for me as a player, because at this point individual battles take many hours), but it could be better than rolling saves against a dominate person spell from the bbeg I will almost certainly fail.
Yes, the enclosure being eliminated is possible, but the hardness is very high, the hit points are very high, and although there is magic to get rid of it I KNOW the bbeg isn't doing it because of the anti magic field (yes, an evil Mook might be able to do it).
I'd offer advice but I did what I could and took the criticism for it. No biggie as I've seen better smurfin b¦tch¡n. Least you read it and understood.