Lore Question: Mortals becoming some form of "evil spirit"

[NoxiousMiasma]

Okay, so I was wondering if there were any particular methods by which a thoroughly unpleasant, wicked, and vicious individual could end up turning into some form of demon (or other monstrous and much stronger and nonhuman creature) while still alive and retaining at least the broad strokes of their personality?
I want a plot element to reference things like the real-world Buddhist story of very wicked people managing to become an oni while still alive, and i was curious if there was already an existing creature or ritual based around that.

[Arcaian]

A Soul Anchor is close, in that it allows you to keep your memories after you die and become an outsider. Everyone retains the broad strokes of their personality, I think. Becoming an outsider without death, or an oni, isn't something I know of an in-setting example of, at least off the top of my head.

[Jerdane]

Skelms from Bestiary 3 sort of work that way, as are transformed from extremely angry men without dying first. The transformation process apparently includes an existing skelm to manipulate the target into a supernatural level of vindictiveness or rage, but it might suit your needs. See https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1301 for one example.

[Jerdane]

Oh, also, I believe the First Edition Book of the Damned had a series of rituals by which a person could gradually transform themselves into a fiend without needing to die, so it's apparently possible in the lore though if you want to mechanically represent it in Second Edition you'd need to convert it.

[Perpdepog]

Jerdane wrote:

Oh, also, I believe the First Edition Book of the Damned had a series of rituals by which a person could gradually transform themselves into a fiend without needing to die, so it's apparently possible in the lore though if you want to mechanically represent it in Second Edition you'd need to convert it.

Correct. It's a series of four rituals, each of which makes you a bit more fiendish than the last, culminating in becoming a fiend with all your class HD; very potent if you can keep from dying along the way. Here's the first one. They're all named X Apotheosis: First, Second, Third, ect.

There's also Fiendish Transformation, from Occult Realms. This gives you the half-fiend template for a week.

[Castilliano]

There are many humanoid NPCs in Golarion lore who have changed into fiendish or other monstrous forms due to their wickedness or ritual, w/o the mechanics spelled out. Do you have a need to spell out the mechanics?

There's a PF1 villain that PCs meet three times in an AP, even after killing him, because of his post-death transformations.

[Perpdepog]

While not quite the same, you'll also occasionally see a fiend or other evil outsider who still remembers all of their mortal life, rather than dim snippets, or nothing at all. Nightripper, a Nascent Demon Lord who still remembers their life as a murderous murdering murder man, is one such example.

The most notable is probably Trelmirixian, Apocalypse Rider of Famine, who still recalls some of his mortal existence, but not much, IIRC.

[exequiel759]

Yeah, outsiders can remember some of their memories. I assume there has to be some sort of "trigger" for them to remember or recover those memories, or the circumstances of death were so specific that allowed that to happen. In the end is effectively a narrative tool for GMs to use if they want to pull up a "I resurrected as a demon" or "I devoted my life to good so I was allowed to resurrect as an angel" tropes.

[Calliope5431]

Perpdepog wrote:

Jerdane wrote:

Oh, also, I believe the First Edition Book of the Damned had a series of rituals by which a person could gradually transform themselves into a fiend without needing to die, so it's apparently possible in the lore though if you want to mechanically represent it in Second Edition you'd need to convert it.

Correct. It's a series of four rituals, each of which makes you a bit more fiendish than the last, culminating in becoming a fiend with all your class HD; very potent if you can keep from dying along the way. Here's the first one. They're all named X Apotheosis: First, Second, Third, ect.

There's also Fiendish Transformation, from Occult Realms. This gives you the half-fiend template for a week.

Yep that's the classic one.

There are others though. You might want to look at 1st edition Exalted prestige class as well - the "Elder's Grace" ability from Mestama literally turns you into a demonic ghost if you age past venerable.

The Demoniac prestige class from 1st edition makes you half-demon at 10th level for a limited amount of time/day, and flavors many of its abilities as demonic possession.

Polymorph any object works, simply by casting it twice in quick succession - once from human to oni, and then from oni to oni (the latter is permanent because you're turning into literally the exact same thing).

You can always magic jar into an oni that you found, bound, or summoned. They are tricks to make jar permanent.

My personal favorite approach to this bit of roleplaying is to play a summoner, with either a phantom (anger phantom or devotion phantom) or demon eidolon. Your "character" is the eidolon, not the summoner, who is either an unwitting dupe or the victim of fiendish possession.

[Perpdepog]

Calliope5431 wrote:

Polymorph any object works, simply by casting it twice in quick succession - once from human to oni, and then from oni to oni (the latter is permanent because you're turning into literally the exact same thing).

I'm not sure it works for transforming someone into an outsider. Polymorph Any Object works like Greater Polymorph, save it lets you turn stuff into objects, and Greater Polymorph doesn't allow you to transform into an outsider.

That's a cool catch about casting it multiple times to make the duration permanent though, and I can see how the spell is fuzzy enough to allow such things; it sounds like a rulings nightmare.

[Finoan]

Player Character facing, there is the Ghost Archetype.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Castilliano wrote:

There are many humanoid NPCs in Golarion lore who have changed into fiendish or other monstrous forms due to their wickedness or ritual, w/o the mechanics spelled out. Do you have a need to spell out the mechanics?

There's a PF1 villain that PCs meet three times in an AP, even after killing him, because of his post-death transformations.

I don't need mechanics, but if there's any particular, like, categories in which villains tend to return? Obviously undead (which I'm personally not going to use on account of my players just finished up a Big Undead Story, and I want to play around with something different), but like, is it more likely for someone to come back as a rakshasa (at least before the lore update), or an asura, or a devil?

[NoxiousMiasma]

And I can't believe I forgot about skelms! They're legitimately my favourite new monster category from PF2e, but none of the existing skelms are really the right vibe, plus most of them are a bit low-level...

Maybe some kind of Dojo Skelm? One dealing with toxic masculinity and the monopoly on violence, through the lens of every terrible martial arts guy ever? That could definitely work...

[Castilliano]

NoxiousMiasma wrote:

And I can't believe I forgot about skelms! They're legitimately my favourite new monster category from PF2e, but none of the existing skelms are really the right vibe, plus most of them are a bit low-level...

Maybe some kind of Dojo Skelm? One dealing with toxic masculinity and the monopoly on violence, through the lens of every terrible martial arts guy ever? That could definitely work...

That has potential. He might even portray himself as noble, right, and justified, trying to befriend the "cool" PCs only to find out they're just betas. And he could have a toxic fanbase too, one which praises him so much to PCs get a positive first impression. Heck, you might even start with him being so powerful he lets the PCs live in shame so their loss & his victory will resound louder. (Perhaps w/ a weakness so that you don't have to deal with him too many levels before the PCs catch up.)

Just make sure he doesn't represent a player's IRL trauma/ex! (Or icon?!)

[Castilliano]

To answer your earlier, maybe now irrelevant, question; there are a number of devils & demons that arise from specific types of souls/lives depending on their favorite evil actions. I imagine this is true for other outsider fiends, though as natives, I don't think rakshasa would count. Of course, a rakshasa leader might corrupt them directly. IIRC the example I gave became a half-fiend in his final incarnation, leveled up quite a lot. So in PF2 that'd be a unique creation.
ETA: And he was from Paizo, but not Golarion re: lore.