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+1d6 is still +1d6, and for only two feats (and access to some other excellent feats including a bonus to Reflex saves which is the Barbarian's lowest). PF2 has a tight power curve so +1d6 is about as well as one can do w/ an MCD (and it's on a Barbarian which is near the top of the offensive power curve already).
If a non-Rogue could poach Sneak Attack in full that'd break the math, and frankly everybody would kinda have to take Rogue MCD simply to keep up. And then take other MCDs to steal the shtick of as many other classes as they could. As it is you can get about +2 damage from a martial Dedication, and only some of them at that. And often at the cost of an action. So the +1d6 that only relies on positioning which you already want is one of the best!
The caveat is you need a finesse weapon (though you don't need to use Dex w/ it if you don't want), and you don't want an agile weapon as that lowers your Rage bonus. So rapier's a good choice, noting that so much of a Barbarian's damage comes from Rage that the die size of their weapon is less important, though this also means you'll have a free hand which you're going to want to utilize (or it's all a wash anyway vs. a two-handed weapon). Note that the Rogue MCD is valuable enough w/o taking Sneak Attack, so if you don't have a use for that free hand (like say a shield, extensive use of Athletics, or whatnot) then there's not even an obligation to take Sneak Attack. Which is as it should be IMO.
Also one could build a Ruffian Rogue who calls themself a barbarian if you prefer Sneak Attack > Rage.
You can use something like a longspear for 1d8 damage at reach and have the full benefit of both sneak attack and +2 from rage increasing to whatever instinct bonus you pick up by level 6.
Going ruffian will get you more sneak attack damage but youll take an untyped -1 to AC this way while raging. an extra -1 from clumsy if your going giant instinct for the biggest damage boost from instinct.
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Barbarian rogue is pretty nice. I play a barbarian with rogue archetype. Feats like Gang Up and Mobility help a ton. I picked up Opportune Backstab so I get a reaction attack nearly every turn. It's a very powerful combination. You don't need sneak attack with a d12 weapon and rage.
Barbarian rogue is pretty nice. I play a barbarian with rogue archetype. Feats like Gang Up and Mobility help a ton. I picked up Opportune Backstab so I get a reaction attack nearly every turn. It's a very powerful combination. You don't need sneak attack with a d12 weapon and rage.
Yeah, Opportune Backstab warrants a 16th level slot, at least for a 2HW Barbarian, maybe any. (And the others too, nabbing some tactical feats which Barb's have few of.)
As to being a Rogue/MCD Barbarian, I don't think they blend that well in that direction. Rogues can deliver good damage w/ Agile weapons, which IMO is more valuable than the minor bonus from the Dedication's Rage given the cost of a feat (and that hit to AC, which is more severe than one might suppose, being more like a -2 from 3.x/PF1.)
Rage might seem necessary to play a barbaric PC, but there are other ways to emulate the savagery: using Intimidation frequently; taking excellent Athletics to grab one's enemies, maybe even toss them on the ground and kick them w/ Head Stomp; or just plain ol' roleplaying. Enough Rogue feats support playing a mean, vicious SOB and the ample skills/skill feats provide outdoor/hunting skills, fear inducement, etc. to round out the brutal, wilderness warrior narrative.
I think it'd work fine. If you want sneak attack to be the focus, you probably want to go Rogue first. But if you just want sneak attack, Barbarian is good and Rogue is a good archetype where things will generally still work while raging. Extra damage is extra damage. Opportune Backstab with how hard you hit is nasty. Gang up makes flanking easy. There is a lot to like here.
Skill Mastery is great on any class since it just flat out makes you better at skills, and that's applicable to all kinds of situations (including combat if the skills are combat applicable, like Intimidation, which can work great on a Barbarian).
I play a Barbarian w/ Rogue in Edgewatch.
Changeling Slag May Spirit Barbarian Shadowdancer
Very fun character. Not THE MOST OPTIMIZED IN THE WORLD but still very effective.
Was sneak attack on above ruffian dice limit for deadly dice ever resolved?
Note that if you score a critical w/ a pick, the weapon die increases too high to allow your Sneak Attack. A Deadly weapon might be preferable to a Fatal one. A pick's higher critical could make up for it, but it's something to note.
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Deadly Dice have nothing to do with ruffians die limit. Fatal does.
There was nothing like an official resolution on that. There are still people who try to claim that Fatal and Two-Hand traits bypass the limit.
Those claims are still not correct. Fatal disabling sneak attack still feels wrong.
So its a table to table resolution then?
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All these suggestions are making me much more confident in my character concept! I think I will go with the Ruffian w/Barbarian Dedication, and focus around Intimidation using Intimidating Glare. Im thinking he will fight with a shield boss and a pick. His primary attribute will be Strength.
The idea is that he's this guy that is precise and detail oriented but if he becomes frustrated (like say, in combat) he will fly off the handle and just start wrecking stuff.
Think "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
One thing to note: Traditionally, Rogues have been the 'anti-Cleric'* in that they have A LOT of desirable class feats, so taking an archetype can be rather painful (every barbarian archetype feat you take is costing you a useful rogue feat).
*In our Age of Ashes campaign, my thief took the Cleric Dedication early on but never managed to squeeze in another archetype feat, while the party's cloistered cleric had three archetypes at one point...
I do not disallow sneak attack based on the fatal trait. Never would have thought to do this since critical hits are completely separate in my mind from the weapon dice and whether it is agile or finesse. I'm surprised this was ever an issue.
Oh yeah there was a thread earlier going back and forth on the issue.
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Thats... a great idea! Ruffian that acts like a barbarian. But then I should take Barbarian dedication, right?
I would suggest that you make more of a distinction between what character you want to play and what you would like mechanically.
You can be an angry person and have that represented by any number of classes.Or wielding a big stick and have that supported by a variety of classes.
A barbarian with rogue archetype will be a sturdy frontline damage dealer with some extras, while a Rogue is a bit more fragile (less hp), but offers more skills - and is probably better off without barbarian archetype.
Also depends on your game, if you play with free archetype its a lot easier, of course.
Rogue feats are hard to pass up. Probably the most good feats in the game on the rogue.