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Soapbox wrote:

Castilliano wrote:

I am a bit disappointed one can't punch while wielding a bow. :/

I guess you could still kick :)

Thanks for answering my question. Here's another:

When I Flurry as part of a full attack, is my multiple attack penalty
0, 0, 5, 10
or
0, 5, 10, 15?

In Monastic Archer Stance, you specifically can't kick, or punch with the hand that isn't holding the bow, for that matter. That's the restriction the stance brings that doesn't apply to any bow wielder who isn't using that stance.

As for the MAP
0, -5, -10, -10.

MAP maxes out and is the same for the 3rd attack and all subsequent attacks.

Oh, wow, that IS a big bummer! I guess one would have to dismiss the stance in order to punch or kick. Does dismissing the stance take an action?

There is no full attack. You could use flurry of blows and then make two more strikes, but that' doesn't have a special name. Flurry of Blows interacts with the multiple attqck penalty normally, so the second strike will be at a greater penalty unless you'd already made two attacks before in the turn.

Ah! Im new to 2E, still learning the nuances. Thanks

I am a bit disappointed one can't punch while wielding a bow. :/

I guess you could still kick :)

Thanks for answering my question. Here's another:

When I Flurry as part of a full attack, is my multiple attack penalty
0, 0, 5, 10
or
0, 5, 10, 15?

Monastic Archer Stance says, "While in this stance, the only Strikes
you can make are those using longbows, shortbows, or bows
with the monk trait. You can use Flurry of Blows with these
bows. You can use your other monk feats or monk abilities
that normally require unarmed attacks with these bows when
attacking within half the first range increment (normally 50
feet for a longbow and 30 feet for a shortbow), so long as the
feat or ability doesn’t require a single, specific Strike."

Does this mean that I can Flurry of Blows by shooting arrows, or does it mean that I use the bow itself as a melee weapon to do melee attacks?

Im thinking its the former rather than the latter since it mentions range increments.

Wow, so many great responses! Thank you all for talking me out of this! I didn't realize that witch was so vulnerable. And you guys caught that I had messed up and gone 18 STR when thats not (normally) possible.
I still kinda want to do it anyway BUT I wont because I dont want to be a drag on the party.
Thank you all for your thoughtful input!

I'm STILL waiting (its been over 2 months) for our first 2E campaign to start, and so I got bored and started building back-up characters. One idea I had, and really like, is that of a Witch that uses an Orc Necksplitter wading into melee combat (after casting Mystic Armor of course).
So I made the character, and in my head it works well but I'm worried that its wishful thinking. I gave her 18 STR and 16 INT and her other scores are unremarkable.

Does this seem like a bad idea? I'm thinking she could take Fighter dedication too which might help.

Nope, you should still be fine to cast spells. That's a mechanic from PF1E, inherited from D&D 3.5, which hasn't crossed over into PF2E. Dunno if it's in 5E or not, but either way you're fine.

Heck, you could still cast spells with a negative charisma if you wanted to. As a champion you may not even notice much difference, at least if you're using LoH exclusively to heal, or Shields of the Spirit, or domains that don't care about save DCs.

EXCELLENT!

I'm creating a Champion with the Deity's Domain feat. However, he will only have a 10 Charisma. Can a Champion with +0 attribute modifier still cast spells? I understand that his Spell DC's will be super low but is there any reason that this won't work at all?

Soapbox wrote:

Thats... a great idea! Ruffian that acts like a barbarian. But then I should take Barbarian dedication, right?

I would suggest that you make more of a distinction between what character you want to play and what you would like mechanically.

You can be an angry person and have that represented by any number of classes.
Or wielding a big stick and have that supported by a variety of classes.

A barbarian with rogue archetype will be a sturdy frontline damage dealer with some extras, while a Rogue is a bit more fragile (less hp), but offers more skills - and is probably better off without barbarian archetype.
Also depends on your game, if you play with free archetype its a lot easier, of course.

I see what you mean. Since I started this thread I've looked deeper into the character build and I feel like I probably don't want any Barbarian dedication feats on this character... The Rogue feats are just too good. I think now that I can accomplish what I intended just by going full Rogue Ruffian that's focused on Intimidation.

Note that if you score a critical w/ a pick, the weapon die increases too high to allow your Sneak Attack. A Deadly weapon might be preferable to a Fatal one. A pick's higher critical could make up for it, but it's something to note.

This is exactly the kind of info I came here for. Thank you so much, I wouldn't have known otherwise.

Deadly Dice have nothing to do with ruffians die limit. Fatal does.

There was nothing like an official resolution on that. There are still people who try to claim that Fatal and Two-Hand traits bypass the limit.

Those claims are still not correct. Fatal disabling sneak attack still feels wrong.

I hadn't considered this. Good catch! I will rethink it.

All these suggestions are making me much more confident in my character concept! I think I will go with the Ruffian w/Barbarian Dedication, and focus around Intimidation using Intimidating Glare. Im thinking he will fight with a shield boss and a pick. His primary attribute will be Strength.
The idea is that he's this guy that is precise and detail oriented but if he becomes frustrated (like say, in combat) he will fly off the handle and just start wrecking stuff.
Think "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

+1d6 is still +1d6, and for only two feats (and access to some other excellent feats including a bonus to Reflex saves which is the Barbarian's lowest). PF2 has a tight power curve so +1d6 is about as well as one can do w/ an MCD (and it's on a Barbarian which is near the top of the offensive power curve already).

If a non-Rogue could poach Sneak Attack in full that'd break the math, and frankly everybody would kinda have to take Rogue MCD simply to keep up. And then take other MCDs to steal the shtick of as many other classes as they could. As it is you can get about +2 damage from a martial Dedication, and only some of them at that. And often at the cost of an action. So the +1d6 that only relies on positioning which you already want is one of the best!

The caveat is you need a finesse weapon (though you don't need to use Dex w/ it if you don't want), and you don't want an agile weapon as that lowers your Rage bonus. So rapier's a good choice, noting that so much of a Barbarian's damage comes from Rage that the die size of their weapon is less important, though this also means you'll have a free hand which you're going to want to utilize (or it's all a wash anyway vs. a two-handed weapon). Note that the Rogue MCD is valuable enough w/o taking Sneak Attack, so if you don't have a use for that free hand (like say a shield, extensive use of Athletics, or whatnot) then there's not even an obligation to take Sneak Attack. Which is as it should be IMO.

Also one could build a Ruffian Rogue who calls themself a barbarian if you prefer Sneak Attack > Rage.

Thats... a great idea! Ruffian that acts like a barbarian. But then I should take Barbarian dedication, right? This makes way more sense. Thank you!

I'm new to 2E and am building a character for an upcoming campaign. One of my ideas is a Barbarian with Sneak Attack. But when I read what the Rogue dedication feat grants the character, it seems to me that they never get more than 1d6 Sneak Attack die... am I reading that correctly? If so, what is the use of Sneak Attack that doesn't grow with the character?