My Cloistered Cleric of Calistria from a while back used a whip, and an Android Ancestors Oracle I've been theorycrafting for a bit now is going to use a dagger pistol (because I want a [Combination] weapon for her Internal Compartment, and out of the three that fit the bill, it's the best fit IMO). I feel like d4 weapons work pretty well on casters, overall, since you're not dependent on its damage die and can put more value on interesting trait combinations or thematic decisions.
(That said, I am thinking of getting a more potent gunsword on the Oracle (maybe a triggerbrand, maybe a gunsword, not sure yet), because real premaster Ancestors Oracles need to be viable attackers thanks to the curse, but I haven't decided because I don't know if I want to give her a stronger main option or focus on the emergency weapon that's literally installed into her arm. I do want to have her specialise in [Combination] weapons either way, since curse wonkiness means she's liable to need to spend some time near the front line, which means she's likely to end up wielding a d4 weapon either way.)
My thought d4 weapons are good for traits but not for damage as seen by a player in a game with me using one only to deal so little damage it is painful to watch...
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It's also a Thief Rogue's best friend if you're trying to take people alive, since for some reason the Sap is not Finnesse (though I guess you could also use your FIST).
Which now that I think about it, why isn't the sap Finnesse? d6, nonlethal, agile and Martial is missing a trait, isn't it? I mean shortswords are d6, finnesse, agile, versatile S.
Juggling Club, Poi, Monkey's Fist, Scourge and Whip have finesse and nonlethal and are simple/martial that thieves can use: you have a thrown option, a reach/trip/disarm one, a d6 damage option, a slashing damage one...
A thief isn't exactly wanting for nonlethal weapons.
Now a Thief has options. Prior to getting Martial Proficiency, there weren’t any at all outside of adventure paths. Three of your list, like Nightstick, are from adventure paths. The other two are Martial weapons. Even Fist didn’t really work pre-remaster, as Thief didn’t get Dex to damage with unarmed attacks. It’s perfectly reasonable to wonder why Sap wasn’t finesse. Especially since there used to be an entire Rogue Archetype in 1E based around using it.
But now there are at least two options that aren’t from adventure paths (and therefore PFS-legal). Rogues should probably pick up a whip or a scourge or at least can use their fist now.
If you want another D4 melee weapon, the Tian Xia character guide has the Liuyedao as a D4 weapon with the Deadly D4 trait (Also the Agile, Finess, Versatile P and Sweep traits).
If you want another D4 melee weapon, the Tian Xia character guide has the Liuyedao as a D4 weapon with the Deadly D4 trait (Also the Agile, Finess, Versatile P and Sweep traits).
What category [simple, martial or advanced]?
If you want another D4 melee weapon, the Tian Xia character guide has the Liuyedao as a D4 weapon with the Deadly D4 trait (Also the Agile, Finess, Versatile P and Sweep traits).What category [simple, martial or advanced]?
Martial
MartialIf you want another D4 melee weapon, the Tian Xia character guide has the Liuyedao as a D4 weapon with the Deadly D4 trait (Also the Agile, Finess, Versatile P and Sweep traits).What category [simple, martial or advanced]?
Nice, thanks for the info. ;)
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Agile, Finesse, and Sweep aren’t traits that are often grouped together. On a quick look, I only found the Scourge. That has interesting possibilities for a -3 second attack. This gives an option that isn’t non-lethal. Would have to be the right build to make up for the d4 base damage, but it’s interesting.
In the time spent playing, how often do you see players inte tnionally taking 1d4 damage weapons and using them? And how often are they OK with this? I’m trying to get past the feels-bad of d4 things on lighter martials, or wondering if I should cheese up to d6 stuff anytime able. (Main goal at the moment is a swashgrappler.)On this point, the Nightstick is an absolutely terrible weapon, there is no reason to use this over a Fist or a Shield.It's a simple 1 handed Parry weapon. There are some feats, like Twin Parry, that do more when using Parry weapons and neither fist or shield qualify as weapons.
It's niche really vanished though once Rogue got martial weapon proficiency, as before the nightstick was the only parry weapon they could get [and could sneak attack with]. Now they can get a Main-gauche for Disarm and Versatile S instead of the Non-lethal of the nightstick.
Aren't you able to unarmed strike when your hands are full? Why not just have a shield and just make unarmed strikes?
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Aren't you able to unarmed strike when your hands are full? Why not just have a shield and just make unarmed strikes?In the time spent playing, how often do you see players inte tnionally taking 1d4 damage weapons and using them? And how often are they OK with this? I’m trying to get past the feels-bad of d4 things on lighter martials, or wondering if I should cheese up to d6 stuff anytime able. (Main goal at the moment is a swashgrappler.)On this point, the Nightstick is an absolutely terrible weapon, there is no reason to use this over a Fist or a Shield.It's a simple 1 handed Parry weapon. There are some feats, like Twin Parry, that do more when using Parry weapons and neither fist or shield qualify as weapons.
It's niche really vanished though once Rogue got martial weapon proficiency, as before the nightstick was the only parry weapon they could get [and could sneak attack with]. Now they can get a Main-gauche for Disarm and Versatile S instead of the Non-lethal of the nightstick.
I think I already explained it... Twin Parry, for instance, REQUIRES 2 weapons and gets a bonus when one has parry. A shield bash isn't a weapon. A fist, isn't a weapon. Or Double Slice, where it REQUIRES 2 melee weapons [and preferably one being agile] and neither a shield or a fist are weapons. You seem to be missing the fact that the options you suggest aren't weapons and that matters.
I think I already explained it... Twin Parry, for instance, REQUIRES 2 weapons and gets a bonus when one has parry. A shield bash isn't a weapon. A fist, isn't a weapon. Or Double Slice, where it REQUIRES 2 melee weapons [and preferably one being agile] and neither a shield or a fist are weapons. You seem to be missing the fact that the options you suggest aren't weapons and that matters.Aren't you able to unarmed strike when your hands are full? Why not just have a shield and just make unarmed strikes?In the time spent playing, how often do you see players inte tnionally taking 1d4 damage weapons and using them? And how often are they OK with this? I’m trying to get past the feels-bad of d4 things on lighter martials, or wondering if I should cheese up to d6 stuff anytime able. (Main goal at the moment is a swashgrappler.)On this point, the Nightstick is an absolutely terrible weapon, there is no reason to use this over a Fist or a Shield.It's a simple 1 handed Parry weapon. There are some feats, like Twin Parry, that do more when using Parry weapons and neither fist or shield qualify as weapons.
It's niche really vanished though once Rogue got martial weapon proficiency, as before the nightstick was the only parry weapon they could get [and could sneak attack with]. Now they can get a Main-gauche for Disarm and Versatile S instead of the Non-lethal of the nightstick.
Ah yes, Twin Parry to get a +2 circumstance bonus to AC. I wonder what a one handed shield can do.
Shield bash quite literally counts as a weapon (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2180&Redirected=1#:~:text=A%20shie ld%20can%20be%20used,have%20runes%20added%20to%20it.). And you can upgrade it to a boss or spikes if you want runes.
And in the cases that you want to have an off hand finesse weapon, you can just use an exquisite sword cane, or one of the advanced weapons.
You're not making a good case for the nightstick.
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Shield bash quite literally counts as a weapon (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2180&Redirected=1#:~:text=A%20shie ld%20can%20be%20used,have%20runes%20added%20to%20it.). And you can upgrade it to a boss or spikes if you want runes.
Shield Bash, Player Core pg. 278
"A shield bash is not actually a weapon, but a maneuver in which you thrust or swing your shield to hit your foe with an impromptu attack."So NO, it's NOT a weapon.
You're not making a good case for the nightstick.
When was I making a case that it was a good weapon? I said it had a very small niche pre-remaster. Then you asked why pick it instead of a shield or unarmed attack and I answered...
And in the cases that you want to have an off hand finesse weapon, you can just use an exquisite sword cane, or one of the advanced weapons.
You 100% MISSED THE POINT. Pre-remaster, rogues only had simple weapons and a small set of martial weapons. They couldn't use an exquisite sword cane, or shield bashes, or shield bosses or shield spikes or one of the advanced weapons but they COULD use a nightstick, hence why they might pick it PRE-REMASTER.
The bonus to Twin Parry is that the AC bonus becomes identical to what you'd get from raising a shield, instead of being inferior to it. Any given character would need some other thing to get an actual advantage from it, whether that is from the weapons other traits (doesn't apply to the night stick, since it's identical to a Fist attack), or from some other synergistic two-weapon fighting feat.
I mentioned there were "some feats". I didn't think I needed an extensive list and I didn't think it took a rocket surgeon to figure it out. For instance, Twin Parry and Double Slice are both involved in 2 weapon fighting and if you're using 2 weapons to parry, it's not a big leap to think you MIGHT want to attack with both of them and the feat for that is... Double Slice. A pre-remaster rogue could take Dual-Weapon Warrior Archetype to pick those feats up but would still be limited to simple weapons, rapier, sap, shortbow, and shortsword: this would mean the only options for an agile/parry second weapon were the clan dagger and the nightstick.
Post-remaster, you're better off with a Tekko-Kagi, Tonfa or Main-gauche but that wasn't an option before.
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And while the Clan Dagger is Agile, it’s not Finesse, so it’s not a good choice for a Rogue if you actually plan to attack with it. It was very disappointing on my first 2E character when I realized that, as I had intended to build him around using the Clan Dagger in his off-hand.
As an aside, the Exquisite Sword Cane should not be considered in really any discussion about weapons. If I’m not mistaken, in the AP it’s a unique magic weapon, and the base version isn’t really available. Outside the AP, the designers have commented that it probably should never have been published. It’s just, in several ways, out of line with other weapons.
Pre-remaster, Nightstick was both the only Simple Finesse Parry weapon and one of the only Simple Finesse Non-lethal weapons, all of which came from APs.
Post-remaster, other things that are in core can fill the niches it offers. Unless, I guess, you need a Finesse, Non-lethal, Parry weapon.
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And while the Clan Dagger is Agile, it’s not Finesse, so it’s not a good choice for a Rogue if you actually plan to attack with it.
Not a Thief at least. A strength based rogue, like Ruffian, can use it especially when paired with something like a Machete where it gives Agile for 2nd attacks and allows for all 3 types of physical damage [B/P/S].
Shield bash quite literally counts as a weapon (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2180&Redirected=1#:~:text=A%20shie ld%20can%20be%20used,have%20runes%20added%20to%20it.). And you can upgrade it to a boss or spikes if you want runes.Shield Bash, Player Core pg. 278
"A shield bash is not actually a weapon, but a maneuver in which you thrust or swing your shield to hit your foe with an impromptu attack."So NO, it's NOT a weapon.
You're not making a good case for the nightstick.When was I making a case that it was a good weapon? I said it had a very small niche pre-remaster. Then you asked why pick it instead of a shield or unarmed attack and I answered...
And in the cases that you want to have an off hand finesse weapon, you can just use an exquisite sword cane, or one of the advanced weapons.You 100% MISSED THE POINT. Pre-remaster, rogues only had simple weapons and a small set of martial weapons. They couldn't use an exquisite sword cane, or shield bashes, or shield bosses or shield spikes or one of the advanced weapons but they COULD use a nightstick, hence why they might pick it PRE-REMASTER.
The bonus to Twin Parry is that the AC bonus becomes identical to what you'd get from raising a shield, instead of being inferior to it. Any given character would need some other thing to get an actual advantage from it, whether that is from the weapons other traits (doesn't apply to the night stick, since it's identical to a Fist attack), or from some other synergistic two-weapon fighting feat.I mentioned there were "some feats". I didn't think I needed an extensive list and I didn't think it took a rocket surgeon to figure it out. For instance, Twin Parry and Double Slice are both involved in 2 weapon fighting and if you're using 2 weapons to parry, it's not a big leap to think you MIGHT want to attack with both of them and the feat for that...
So we have one section of the rules calling it a weapon, and another saying the opposite. It is also literally listed under the martial melee weapons tab, I'm going to go with it being a weapon, because for all intents and purposes it is a weapon. Shield Boss and Shield Spikes are definitely a weapon though, not sure why you ignored that.
You understand the the game is post-remaster, not pre-remaster, right?
You mention there are "some feats" but don't showcase a single example that matters, and don't demonstrate how the nightstick wouldn't be better replaced by another weapon.
Sorry if I misunderstood you putting yourself in opposition of my comment as a defense of the nightstick.
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So we have one section of the rules calling it a weapon, and another saying the opposite.
Incorrect: from the other section, "The shield bash is an option only for shields that weren’t designed to be used as weapons." It counts as a weapon ONLY for attacks: this means you don't qualify as wielding a weapon for it for prerequisites. There is a reason you can't put weapon runes on a shield and that's because it isn't a weapon. Note the difference between the shield and improvised weapons for instance: "Improvised weapons are simple weapons" vs "A shield can be used as a martial weapon for attacks" and "A shield bash is not actually a weapon". If a shield is a weapon, they sure could have stated it like improvised weapons and improvised weapons aren't even in the weapon list,...
It is also literally listed under the martial melee weapons tab
Fist is literally listed on the weapon list... Is it a weapon too?
You understand the the game is post-remaster, not pre-remaster, right?
Do you understand when someone explicitly states they are talking about the pre-remaster, they just might be talking about the pre-remaster?
You mention there are "some feats" but don't showcase a single example that matters, and don't demonstrate how the nightstick wouldn't be better replaced by another weapon.
Agree to disagree, as you don't seem to comprehend the difference between pre and post remaster.
Sorry if I misunderstood you putting yourself in opposition of my comment as a defense of the nightstick.
That's the thing though. I don't think I ever put myself in opposition to your comments. All i stated was that it did have a niche use pre-remaster: full stop. I even said that niche vanished with the remaster... I honestly don't understand the pushback on those comments.
I have! But I wasn't really using it for damage. I wanted to make a swashbuckler who does a lot of tripping, so picked up a whip to help enable that. If I wanted to actually deal damage though I just swapped to a rapier.
I've been fiddling with a similar concept: a tripkee swashbuckler with the gymnast style and the Thlipit Contestant archetype. The unarmed lash attack has the grapple trait instead of the trip trait, but the archetype provides access to the Slam Down feat. A tripkee also gets plenty of use from Athletics for jumping...
Titan Wrestler is a must, however.
So we have one section of the rules calling it a weapon, and another saying the opposite.Incorrect: from the other section, "The shield bash is an option only for shields that weren’t designed to be used as weapons." It counts as a weapon ONLY for attacks: this means you don't qualify as wielding a weapon for it for prerequisites. There is a reason you can't put weapon runes on a shield and that's because it isn't a weapon. Note the difference between the shield and improvised weapons for instance: "Improvised weapons are simple weapons" vs "A shield can be used as a martial weapon for attacks" and "A shield bash is not actually a weapon". If a shield is a weapon, they sure could have stated it like improvised weapons and improvised weapons aren't even in the weapon list,...
It is also literally listed under the martial melee weapons tabFist is literally listed on the weapon list... Is it a weapon too?
You understand the the game is post-remaster, not pre-remaster, right?Do you understand when someone explicitly states they are talking about the pre-remaster, they just might be talking about the pre-remaster?
You mention there are "some feats" but don't showcase a single example that matters, and don't demonstrate how the nightstick wouldn't be better replaced by another weapon.Agree to disagree, as you don't seem to comprehend the difference between pre and post remaster.
Sorry if I misunderstood you putting yourself in opposition of my comment as a defense of the nightstick.That's the thing though. I don't think I ever put myself in opposition to your comments. All i stated was that it did have a niche use pre-remaster: full stop. I even said that niche vanished with the remaster... I honestly don't understand the pushback on those comments.
Unarmed strikes explicitly state this "Unarmed attacks can belong to a weapon group (page 280), and they might have weapon traits (page 282). However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so." There is no contradiction in the rules here. Shield bash like you quoted says that it can be used as a martial weapon for attack, but it does not say it "only" can be used that way. That's a contradiction.
Your reading of the rules is incredibly draconian and would not be how a reasonable person interprets the rules. There is no logical or balance reason why a shield bash shouldn't count as a weapon, while a table leg would.
Nevertheless, like I've stated twice now, and you've failed to acknowledge both times, there is something called a shield boss, and shield spikes. Which definitely both count as weapons.
I'm really not sure why you respond to my comment saying "It's a simple 1 handed Parry weapon. There are some feats, like Twin Parry, that do more when using Parry weapons and neither fist or shield qualify as weapons." This is not talking about the pre-remaster state of the game.
When I say "This weapon is basically pointless" and you respond saying "There are feats which can only be used with a weapon like this". That is quite clearly a counter-response to my claim.
Your reading of the rules is incredibly draconian and would not be how a reasonable person interprets the rules.
Only if you ignore part of the rules: "A shield bash is not actually a weapon, but a maneuver in which you thrust or swing your shield to hit your foe with an impromptu attack." It quite EXPLICITLY states "A shield bash is not actually a weapon". IMO, It's doing some high grade mental gymnastics to say that statement actually means it IS a weapon by pointing to a section that says you use it for "shields that weren’t designed to be used as weapons".
Nevertheless, like I've stated twice now, and you've failed to acknowledge both times, there is something called a shield boss, and shield spikes. Which definitely both count as weapons.
Why would I? Neither of those were part of the statement I replied to, As they are martial weapon and MY POINT was that in pre-remaster, a rogue only had simple weapons, rapier, sap, shortbow, and shortsword so they are moot and irrelevant.
I'm really not sure why you respond to my comment saying "It's a simple 1 handed Parry weapon. There are some feats, like Twin Parry, that do more when using Parry weapons and neither fist or shield qualify as weapons." This is not talking about the pre-remaster state of the game.
Out of context, sure if you ignoring the part where i explain it: "It's niche really vanished though once Rogue got martial weapon proficiency, as before the nightstick was the only parry weapon they could get [and could sneak attack with]. Now they can get a Main-gauche for Disarm and Versatile S instead of the Non-lethal of the nightstick." I can't see how you can't understand how this refers to the first sentence.
When I say "This weapon is basically pointless" and you respond saying "There are feats which can only be used with a weapon like this". That is quite clearly a counter-response to my claim.
But i WASN'T replying to your comment of "This weapon is basically pointless" though. I replied to "there is no reason to use this over a Fist or a Shield" and there are in fact reason to do so, especially in pre-remaster: fist and shields aren't weapons and the nightstick is a simple weapons and there are things like feats where that matters. That's it. On the pointless point, I explained that it used to have a point pre-remaster.
And as a side note, as an AP weapon, it is exceedingly unlikely that this item would ever get looked at or updated. Unless something from an AP is way out of line, it sticks around: for instance the Exquisite Sword Cane has been noted as overtuned by the devs for a long time but still hasn't seen any changes.
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I have! But I wasn't really using it for damage. I wanted to make a swashbuckler who does a lot of tripping, so picked up a whip to help enable that. If I wanted to actually deal damage though I just swapped to a rapier.I've been fiddling with a similar concept: a tripkee swashbuckler with the gymnast style and the Thlipit Contestant archetype. The unarmed lash attack has the grapple trait instead of the trip trait, but the archetype provides access to the Slam Down feat. A tripkee also gets plenty of use from Athletics for jumping...
Titan Wrestler is a must, however.
Oh yeah I learnt that very quickly the second we fought something that was huge at level 2. I figured "ahh i won't need titan wrestler for another couple levels". Oops.
Your reading of the rules is incredibly draconian and would not be how a reasonable person interprets the rules.Only if you ignore part of the rules: "A shield bash is not actually a weapon, but a maneuver in which you thrust or swing your shield to hit your foe with an impromptu attack." It quite EXPLICITLY states "A shield bash is not actually a weapon". IMO, It's doing some high grade mental gymnastics to say that statement actually means it IS a weapon by pointing to a section that says you use it for "shields that weren’t designed to be used as weapons".
A shield bash is treated as a weapon when you make an attack, I seriously don't see why a reasonable GM wouldn't just treat it as a weapon normally.
Why would I? Neither of those were part of the statement I replied to, As they are martial weapon and MY POINT was that in pre-remaster, a rogue only had simple weapons, rapier, sap, shortbow, and shortsword so they are moot and irrelevant.
If you were talking about the Rogue in this instance, you simply would've just said that about shield bash instead of talking about whether it even counts as a weapon. You also wouldn't of used the example of double slice, nor of twin parry, as these are not Rogue feats. It's clear that you're defending the item post-remaster with your arguments.
You don't want to respond to it because it makes your whole point about shield bash moot. Shield bash is treated as a martial weapon during attacks by your reading.
Out of context, sure if you ignoring the part where i explain it: "It's niche really vanished though once Rogue got martial weapon proficiency, as before the nightstick was the only parry weapon they could get [and could sneak attack with]. Now they can get a Main-gauche for Disarm and Versatile S instead of the Non-lethal of the nightstick." I can't see how you can't understand how this refers to the first sentence.
If it referred to the first sentence, why would you put it in a separate paragraph? And why would you use twin parry and double slice as examples? Why wouldn't you say that Rogue couldn't've used shield bash or fist for sneak attacks in the first place?
Look it seems like I just misunderstood here, but can't you see why?
Like even in this comment you say:
I replied to "there is no reason to use this over a Fist or a Shield" and there are in fact reason to do so, especially in pre-remaster:
Which implies this weapon still is useful post-remaster.
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A shield bash is treated as a weapon when you make an attack, I seriously don't see why a reasonable GM wouldn't just treat it as a weapon normally.
Reasonable DM do so all the time. It's quite reasonable to read where it says it's not a weapon and rule it's not a weapon. Again, the game doesn't even treat it as a weapon since you can't use weapon runes on it so even if you COULD use it as a weapon all the time it'd be a terrible one, even worse than a nightstick.
If you were talking about the Rogue in this instance, you simply would've just said that about shield bash instead of talking about whether it even counts as a weapon. You also wouldn't of used the example of double slice, nor of twin parry, as these are not Rogue feats. It's clear that you're defending the item post-remaster with your arguments.
You brought up shield bash, not me. You asked why someone wouldn't use an unarmed attack or a shield and i explained reasons why.
You don't want to respond to it because it makes your whole point about shield bash moot. Shield bash is treated as a martial weapon during attacks by your reading.
Dude... Just stop. I WAS TALKING ABOUT A PREREMASTER ROGUE: FULL STOP. As such, yeah it's totally, 100% moot. Irrelevant. Immaterial. Not pertinent. Not germane. Off the subject. Neither here nor there. Unconnected. Unrelated.
If it referred to the first sentence, why would you put it in a separate paragraph? And why would you use twin parry and double slice as examples? Why wouldn't you say that Rogue couldn't've used shield bash or fist for sneak attacks in the first place?
I just don't get you... Lets say I poorly placed the sentences in my post... Why does that matter AFTER I explained what I meant? And, on the sneak attack, I just didn't think about it: it's not a big conspiracy in an attempt to undermine your point on the thread.
Which implies this weapon still is useful post-remaster.
yeah, there is and once again, it's because neither is a weapon and some abilities require you are wielding an actual weapon, even if it's is otherwise inferior to a fist or shield bash in stats: so yeah, given the option of a fist, a shield bash or a nightstick, there are times the correct option is the nightstick even in remaster. That is in no way saying it's a GOOD option, just better than the other two for some abilities.
PS: I'll stop replying to posts about things I already covered like shield bashes not being weapons or further digging into the minutia of my posts not meeting the OP's standards. My point was the nightstick had a pre-remaster niche that went away in remaster but as a weapon, it would have uses over an unarmed attack or shield bash as they aren't weapons.
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So, the thing you're missing here, Kitusser, is that before PF2R, weapons like the Nightstick opened up more archetype options for the Rogue (in this case, Dual-Weapon Warrior). Don't feel bad about it, you're likely just missing context; it's something that most PF1 veterans will think about, but isn't nearly as apparent if you're only (or primarily) familiar with PF2.
In PF1, one of the most popular Rogue builds was the dual-wielding build (both because it meant more opportunities to land a hit, and thus to land a sneak attack, and also because of a certain infamous Drow), and that popularity carried over into PF2. When a player wants to build a dual-wielding Rogue in PF2, they grab the Dual-Weapon Warrior archetype, and then find themselves lacking a defensive option.
Which is where Twin Parry comes in: It's the archetype's built-in defensive option, meant to replicate Raise a Shield while you're wielding a second weapon instead of a shield. Rogues, before the remaster, were... kinda lacking in ways to get Twin Parry's full bonus, shall we say. There were a grand total of two simple weapons that had [Parry], the Clan Dagger and the Nightstick; of these, the Nightstick was important because it also had [Finesse], letting its accuracy run off the Rogue's KAS.
Thus, if a Rogue wanted to dual-wield (this is the key point here, though I don't think graystone actually mentioned it directly), they would either want a Nightstick in their offhand, or would want to keep one in their golf bag in case they needed it, giving it a unique niche that no other weapon could replicate. (Twin Parry explicitly requires two weapons, explicitly excluding bare hands and shields. Bare hands are likely barred because blocking a sword with a fist is a terrible idea, and shields are barred to prevent you from screwing yourself over; there are no shields or shield augmentations/attachments with [Parry], so even if it was legal, using a shield to Twin Parry would always give you less HP than just Raising a Shield like a normal person.)
(Less importantly, it was also one of the only two simple weapons with both [Finesse] and [Nonlethal], making it relevant if you wanted to take the target alive.)
This was the nightstick's raison d'etre in PF2, before the remaster. It exists to fill a single, specific purpose, and thus was the only way for a dual-wielding Rogue to get an AC bonus equivalent to Raise a Shield. This niche no longer exists in PF2R, thanks to Rogues getting martial weapons, which is what graystone was getting at: There may not be a reason to use the Nightstick NOW, but there was back when it was printed.
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Now, as to your arguments about shield bashing not being a weapon, there's a clear reason why it's not: It's a maneuver, not an object. Calling a shield bash (the action of using a shield to bludgeon an opponent, on the grounds that the shield is just a big chunk of wood that absorbs attacks for you) is equivalent to calling a roundhouse kick (a specific type of martial arts move, often associated with Chuck Norris) a weapon, more or less.
Notably, even if the shield bash was a weapon, this would mean that the shield only counted as a weapon during the Shield Bash action, and at no other times; this is even stated in the shield rules, with an entire section dedicated to describing how a shield can be treated as a weapon while attacking with it. This is telling: If the shield bash actually was a weapon, then the section would be unnecessary, on the grounds that no other weapon needs to explicitly state that a weapon "can be used as a [martial] weapon for attacks". It's even more telling that the shield bash itself states that it's not a weapon, for that matter. ;3
And as to why a reasonable GM wouldn't allow it to be treated as a weapon, there's a reason for that, too: Using a shield as an offhand weapon for Twin Parry is explicitly worse than just using Raise a Shield, since no shields have [Parry]. Using it as a weapon for offensive dual-wielding feats is more logical (albeit strange), and arguably legal as written (it's treated as a weapon for attacking, Double Slice describes itself as making two attacks, and the other offensive feats either call themselves attacks or mention Strikes (which are attacks), so there's room to claim that a shield bash can be treated as a weapon for those feats specifically), but using it as a weapon for the defensive feat would just cut the bonus in half and prevent you from using Shield Block if you have it, so it makes a lot of sense design-wise to forbid Twin Parrying with shields.
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Don't worry, not picking up on it doesn't reflect poorly on you; this is something that looks simple on the surface, but is surprisingly complex when you try to look at why it works the way it does. PF2 usually tries to lock out options if they would be a trap (see Flexible Spellcaster, which has a list of feats that it locks out because they become traps if you have it), so shields being incompatible with Twin Parry is just another case of the game doing that; it keeps you from losing mechanical benefits for the RP, when you could just reflavour Raise a Shield to get the best of both worlds.
...That said, though, the way you're acting kinda does reflect poorly on you, unfortunately. It's okay to not notice that a shield bash isn't a weapon... but if someone points it out to you, and you first respond that the rules text is an overly-draconian misreading that isn't supported by the rules, before finally acquiesing but also turning it into an implied insult with "okay, it's not actually a weapon, but any reasonable GM would ignore the rules here (and anyone who thinks 'isn't a weapon' means 'isn't a weapon' is clearly unreasonable)", then you're just going to make yourself look unreasonable. Not to be rude, but it's okay to admit that you misunderstood something; people misunderstanding each other is the world's most popular sport, after all! (And refusing to acknowledge that graystone was talking about premaster Nightsticks because the weapon predates PF2R doesn't help, either, it kinda just comes across as willful misinterpretation for argument's sake. -_-)