BaronOfBread |
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I had a PFS Ancestor Oracle who really leaned into the curse effect and with the Remaster that character is pretty much dead for two reasons. The first reason being that they were Dex based and clumsy would wreck them, but this post is about the second reason.
The second reason is that Meddling Futures, the replacement for the ancestor oracles' old curse, is bad. Meddling Futures has a 1 in 4 chance of getting what you really want, as opposed to the curse which had a 50-50 shot. You can't try to get ready for your action since you only know what is prescribed on that action, as opposed to the curse telling you at the end of your previous turn. Meddling Futures can shut down any action that isn't the prescribed action, so you can't dodge the effect by Raising a Shield or other useful actions that weren't penalized with the curse.
Meddling Futures has some positives, in that it can only shut down one action (unless you try to use an activity like a spell cast) and that you choose when you gamble on it instead of always having it going. But when is it actually good to gamble on getting an improved action vs potentially losing an action? More importantly, how does that math change when taking the gamble costs you?
That's really the rub, Meddling Futures just isn't good enough for a cursebound feat. It gets outcompeted for damage by Foretell Harm and Whispers of Weakness eats its lunch on some skill checks as well as for Strikes (and some other attack trait actions as well). If the idea is that because the feat has a wider variety of bonuses it should cost more, then there needs to be some kind of reliability to getting what you want when you need it otherwise it is just more chances to get wrecked. If an ability is going to unreliably give me a smaller effect than an ability that is cheaper to get and reliable, then that first ability needs a change.
Maybe make the effect more reliable, roll d4s equal to your cursebound value and pick one. Maybe drop the cursebound trait, weaker effects feel justified if they don't increment cursebound. Maybe if you don't use the action during your turn you flat check vs stunned 1 at the end of your turn, getting to choose when you use the action once you know what it is makes the bonus far easier to use. Maybe something else, I'm sure there are upgrades more clever and balanced than those. Maybe its too late for errata to improve it. But I think an upgrade is required for this to not be a dead feat and a dead play style.
Omega Metroid |
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It especially doesn't help that for a Dex-based Ancestors Oracle, Meddling Futures will mathematically never be worth taking, since automatically increasing your Clumsy level every time you use it means it can only break even at best (when you have no Cursebound status), and actually penalises you instead of buffing you.
(The Warrior ancestor explicitly makes you worse at Striking every time you use it, since the to-hit bonus caps at +1. The Adept ancestor will always penalise you for half your Cursebound status (rounded down), because it scales slower than the curse. The Wanderer ancestor doesn't directly penalise you, but not letting you Step means rolling it essentially wastes your entire turn at best or forces you to eat an AoO (and instantly die from being crit) at worst. And while the Sage technically doesn't penalise the spell itself, "spell-rank bonus, with a pity +3 if you're clumsy enough to guarantee everything crits & kills you" is not by any means worth making yourself worse at the things you're built to do for the rest of the encounter.)
Add to this that using it at all makes you actively worse at both striking and using half your skills (since you'd mainly run Dex & Cha skills), and your premaster Ancestor Oracle's basic gameplay loop is now a trap that prevents your character (that is explicitly designed around that loop) from functioning (and will probably kill you). It single-handedly turns the Ancestors Oracle into what people like RPGBot complained about the original version being: "Roll the Spells ancestor or your entire turn is wasted".
Captain Morgan |
IMO, the problem with Meddling Futures is that they replaced the 4 result from "pick which spirit possesses you" to "stride with a small bonus." You can definitely build an Oracle who can be prepared to use any of the first 3 action types without it feeling like a waste. However, if you're in range to be able to do any of those 3 (the only time you'd generally use Meddling Futures) then a stride is absolutely gonna be a waste. If they'd kept the "pick your spirit" option it would actually be worth considering, IMO. It feels odd when you compare it to Roll the Bones, especially, the other big random curse bound feat.
PossibleCabbage |
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The Ancestors oracle got hit the hardest of any of the Oracles in the remaster. It went from "a character who you will want to be comfortable in combat, because sometimes your spirits want you to do that" to "a character you want as far away from danger as possible because Clumsy is nasty as it hits your AC."
Tridus |
The Ancestors oracle got hit the hardest of any of the Oracles in the remaster. It went from "a character who you will want to be comfortable in combat, because sometimes your spirits want you to do that" to "a character you want as far away from danger as possible because Clumsy is nasty as it hits your AC."
Ancestors has the worst Curse now (up until Lore 4, maybe). I'm not sure it was hit the hardest in total, given what happened to Battle and Life, but its definitely worse now.
All the mysteries are, really. The class was shifted dramatically away from mysteries being a key part of your character.
Hilary Moon Murphy Contributor |
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My Ancestors Oracle, Tess, used to rock. I loved her so much. She was a dex-based character who strode into battle with an elven curve blade. But the remaster has broken her utterly. As she was my second favorite character in PFS, I have been heartbroken that the new changes are errata. She can't be grandfathered, she has to be remastered.
After looking through other oracle options - including bones - I've concluded that I am going to have to use my remaster rebuild to turn her into something else.
I am glad that they made oracles easier to make and understand, but oh... why did the remaster have to nerf them and remove their flavor? Other classes got power upgrades and quality of life changes. Did they see oracles as overpowered?
ottdmk |
I find myself thinking that Meddling Futures would be best served before a second Action.
Say you open up with a Strike. You then invoke Meddling Futures.
1) Warrior. You Strike again, and your MAP is reduced by 1.
2) Adept. You Trip (as an example), and again, your MAP is reduced.
3) Sage. You Cast a Save spell.
4) Wanderer. You Stride (and admittedly, there's a chance this will Provoke) and now the opponent has to come to you, wasting an action. Maybe you cast Shield (or Raise Shield).
Just a thought, anyways. The Curse is definitely quite nasty for a playstyle that wants you to be in melee range.
Powers128 |
I find myself thinking that Meddling Futures would be best served before a second Action.
Say you open up with a Strike. You then invoke Meddling Futures.
1) Warrior. You Strike again, and your MAP is reduced by 1.
2) Adept. You Trip (as an example), and again, your MAP is reduced.
3) Sage. You Cast a Save spell.
4) Wanderer. You Stride (and admittedly, there's a chance this will Provoke) and now the opponent has to come to you, wasting an action. Maybe you cast Shield (or Raise Shield).Just a thought, anyways. The Curse is definitely quite nasty for a playstyle that wants you to be in melee range.
Additionally, you have to consider your order of actions before using it. Like you can't use bespell strikes if you roll warrior unless you've used it beforehand since you're locked into your next action. So a good pattern would be sure strike, bespell strikes, meddling futures and then decide to either cast an attack spell or make a strike for either warrior or sage. Shield would be the safe option for the other 2