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Hi everyone! :)
I'm preparing to run an AP loosely based on Tyrant's Grasp, because my group and I all want an undead-based epic campaign, and what can be better than a full-out undead apocalypse created by the most infamous necromancer on Golarion (sorry Geb).
I've come across two things that I want to consider and customize as a GM, first being Tar-Baphon's outstandingly mean nature that seems to be constantly radiating from his character (from what I've read), second one being his so-very-dead-looking lich appearance.
After realising his second highest stat is Charisma, I came up with an slightly alternative approach to Tar-Baphon's mentality: a velvety manipulator that lurs you into his ways and philosophy so smoothly that you want to listen on and on and on, until corruption take firm hold. He seems shockingly gentle, charming and wise to the point that's its alluring. He speaks, and his whisper comes slithering into your mind like it's the truth you have always being searching for. Yet, it is all of course a facade, a ruse that he enjoys upturning in times of anger and disappointment, replacing it with cold cruelty. He knows neither affection nor empathy, only an understanding that these features will turn more not-yet-undead adherents to his cause than outright violence and whimsical behaviour. He can still experience all the emotions and physical feelings as the inheritor of Zutha's way but he only uses and abuses that understanding of the living.
He's calm and ever-calculating as much as a lich can be. He's confident that in time all shall fall before him. He thinks the undead way is so superior to the living, that holding onto one's life seems to him like toddler behavior. He views the most of the living as scared, little, insignificant beings that are blind and silly and not worthy of anything, but he might look your way if you are sincere in pledging your allegiance. He comes across as a "charismatic authority" type, although he's a traditional "coercion authority" actually. His liegemen bow before him because they both fear and adore him (as much as an undead can adore).
The appearance question is slighly more difficult. I know my group well. They're not going to enjoy fighting a skeleton-like dude as much as they're going to enjoy fighting an undead guy who knows his looks.
Recalling an entry from the "Book of the Dead" on fashion in Geb, quite a lot of the undead prefer illusions, transmutations or mundane means to appear closer to the living. I started considering whether Tar-Baphon would enjoy to appear more living, akin to en elderly man he was before he died (he was 59). He does it not because he values life, but because it startles his opponents. Also, it's probably fancier than shredded skin and charred bones and I have counted around 6 different outfits on canonical images of Tar-Baphon. Heck, even Sorshen has only two! :D
Now to the weirder part that I have much more doubts about. After reading parts of the named book I also started thinking whether a mythical lich like T-B would enjoy incorporating strengths of other types of undead, like auras or special abilities (I know he has stats, I'll probably end up upgrading them anyway). This may sound weird, but when you're a mighty undead that thinks unlife is the greatest state of being, should you follow canonical lich-like features only?
I was, for example, highly impressed by "Book of the Dead"'s approach on mummies.
Those tied to the magic of death, however, only increase. Some even develop completely new magical powers, which should be studied further.
Mummies almost universally possess a strong, deadly aura. The way the creature died seems to influence the effect. The pain and misery the creature was subject to in death projects outward.
That made me remember how T-B went down from Aroden's hand, and I suppose it damn hurt.
Surely it was all his plan and he could have just shrugged it all off after becoming a lich, but it would probably be more characterising if he kept the fatal blow and made it his strength. Like a crack in his chest where Aroden's blade pierced his heart, and now there's just negative energy darkness swirling under his ribcage, hugging the emptiness in place of the heart like herbs and balms replace a mummy's intestines.
Heck, I'm even thinking about vampire's teeth. Not because he needs them to (un)live but because he's a follower of Zutha's teachings (them both can still very much enjoy food and other carnal pleasures) and he can intimidate the hell out of the holy warriors, who'd rather die than be marked by this creature's unholy teeth.
Could you throw in your opinions on all these concepts? I'd like to be pointed at inconsistences and weirdy ideas. Like, will his reimagined character still feel true to the Whispering Way? I haven't yet studied it a lot. Are there any particularly powerful undead whose features could have drawn his attention? Am I still respectful to undeath in whole and lichdom in particular?
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I think making himself look "living" could conflict somewhat with the dogma of The Whispering Way - according to The Whispering Way, undead are simply the next evolution of mortal life and Liches are the apex of undead. Putting on the guise of a living creature might be degrading to Tar-Baphon. Then again, perhaps he finds appearances completely trivial. He knows what he is, a Lich, and what he looks like isn't important.
On your question on abilities, I would absolutely soup him up. This is Tar-Baphon, The Villain of Golarion! He needs abilities to match. Giving him abilities that draw from other undead are fair game I think, though I think they ought to be even crazier versions than you find on the originals. For example;
Aura of Absolute Terror The 1E version of Tar-Baphon had a crazy fear aura, and I think it is absolutely befitting for his 2E iteration to have something similar. Taking the Frightful Presence ability many monsters have and powering it up would be a great call (the simplest version would be to increase the frightened condition it imparts by +1, but you can go crazy with it).
Animate Touch The 1E version of Tar-Baphon had the ability to quickly make undead with a touch. I would absolutely want to give him some crazy animation ability, and what I have in mind for my own iteration of T-B is the ability to reanimate PCs who fall in combat. If he has to touch them to do so, it would add more dramatic flair to the ability while also not making it quite as overwhelming. Having undead versions of PCs fight against the rest of the party is an insanely memorable ability, though it requires the GM is prepared for what happens if they TPK and all become undead minions of T-B.
In addition, you could check out a previous thread of mine where I shared some Lich Player Character feat options to flesh out the archetype, specifically giving it more caster-oriented feats. This could be useful in finding additional lich-like abilities to give to ol' Baphy.
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I agree with Henro about a lich with a mortal’s appearance going against the Whispering Way. However, if your Tar-Baphon enjoys manipulating mortals, then he would surely understand the value of using illusion to appear like them when necessary. He would rather show his true form most of the time to convey his power and spread terror in the hearts of the living, but a good illusion can go far towards drawing in the weak-willed with promises of power!
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AP Spoilers:Whatever you do in your AP get rid of the implants that kill the PC's at the end of the AP that is the single worst anti PC/Hero thing that Pazio has ever done for an AP.TB is a master manipulator behind the scenes villain thus his high Charisma. You don't have to look alive/mortal to have a high charisma.
Make TB's intimidation Legendary and give him a unique Scare to death feat.
Scare to undeath ?
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Also do note that in pf1e, undead HP scales of Charisma instead of Constitution (undead lack a Con score). That's why a lot of undead had higher than average charsima and why the 2e version of those undead usually have reduced relative charisma.
Threw up a spoiler tag on a post that spoiled some of an old AP.
Threw up a spoiler tag on a post that spoiled some of an old AP.
The reply to it still shows the spoiler. :-)
First, I agree with most, maybe all, of what's been said, but let me play vampire's advocate to suggest that some undeath-ophiles do not like the appearance of death. The iconic vampires embrace and endorse undeath as much as any might, yet it's about the immortality, power, and yes, eternal "youth". NOT that Tar-Baphon would care about appearances more than any other tool in their arsenal, just that liking undeath =/ liking corpse faces. "Of all the faces you could choose to wear forever, you chose that one?"
While PF2 TB should mirror PF1 TB, the emphasis on stats has altered (I don't think Baba Yaga for example will have a 40/+15 Int anymore, though who knows?). And as noted, he may have had a high PF1 Charisma simply because it's so tied to undead durability. I also think a behind-the-scenes manipulator doesn't need Charisma, not when as powerful, ruthless, and intelligent as Tar-Baphon. (An in-view one on the other hand does!) That said, the devotion of his followers well past his defeat shows he should have superhuman leadership, though with PF2's level-based proficiency that could as easily come from Legendary skills & being a 25+ level entity (if not outright magical compulsion on key figures, perhaps charismatic ones).
Which is to say, Charisma's warranted, but not required, though I expect Paizo's version will have all TB's stats superhuman.
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I should have said I'm still running 1E, so the stats I'm gonna tweak are those exact Wizard 20/Archmage 10.
Thank you all so very much for the commentaries!
AP Spoilers
Yeah, no worry... I'm keeping the things but changing their functionality so that they do NOT do the thing they're supposed to do. Although I get it that some parties would rather enjoy smth like that (but not mine).
In addition, you could check out a previous thread of mine
Oh, thank you, I'll hop into it for inspiration!
some undeath-ophiles
Yep, that's exactly what's up with the whole physical reimagining. My people just don't like bare skulls :D
I'd say he might care about his appearances but ONLY so that they further his goals. That's what I was bringing up in the first place, him using a body/illusion/transmutation to either lure in or repulse.Scare to undeath
I really like this alterntative to Scare to Death... Care if I steal it?
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This has been super interesting to read!
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This has been super interesting to read!
We are always happy to provide! :D
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Maybe TB's greatest secret is that he is actually cursed with a living being's complexion that he takes great care to hide through means both mundane and magical.
So, what does he actually look like ?
Well, since he is Kellid, I picture TB as the result of What If Conan studied spells rather than sword. So, in my mind's eye, he is actually the spitting image of Earth's most famous Barbarian.
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Who, incidentally, seems more like a scrawny emo kid than Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa! ;)
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Who, incidentally, seems more like a scrawny emo kid than Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa! ;)
TBT the earliest pic I could find of Conan, which is the 1934 cover for Queen of the Black Coast, gives off a Johnny Weissmuller feel IMO.
So, not that scrawny ;-)
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I freely admit that my instant headcanon look of any lich is the Horned King from the Disney version of Black Cauldron (dont hate me I love that movie)
Who, incidentally, seems more like a scrawny emo kid than Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa! ;)TBT the earliest pic I could find of Conan, which is the 1934 cover for Queen of the Black Coast, gives off a Johnny Weissmuller feel IMO.
So, not that scrawny ;-)
I mean, when has a book cover not played fast and loose with accurate depictions of the book's contents and its character's descriptions? =P
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I mean, when has a book cover not played fast and loose with accurate depictions of the book's contents and its character's descriptions? =PWho, incidentally, seems more like a scrawny emo kid than Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa! ;)TBT the earliest pic I could find of Conan, which is the 1934 cover for Queen of the Black Coast, gives off a Johnny Weissmuller feel IMO.
So, not that scrawny ;-)
*Cough cough* Wheel of Time *cough*
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I mean, when has a book cover not played fast and loose with accurate depictions of the book's contents and its character's descriptions? =PWho, incidentally, seems more like a scrawny emo kid than Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa! ;)TBT the earliest pic I could find of Conan, which is the 1934 cover for Queen of the Black Coast, gives off a Johnny Weissmuller feel IMO.
So, not that scrawny ;-)
Sure, but that set an image for a muscular Conan long before Schwarzenegger and Momoa.
Not to mention the 70's comics that predate the first movie.
*Cough cough* Wheel of Time *cough*I mean, when has a book cover not played fast and loose with accurate depictions of the book's contents and its character's descriptions? =PWho, incidentally, seems more like a scrawny emo kid than Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jason Momoa! ;)TBT the earliest pic I could find of Conan, which is the 1934 cover for Queen of the Black Coast, gives off a Johnny Weissmuller feel IMO.
So, not that scrawny ;-)
They are either bang-on or comically wrong. There's not a lot of in-between.
I freely admit that my instant headcanon look of any lich is the Horned King from the Disney version of Black Cauldron (dont hate me I love that movie)
How do I unsee it now? :DD
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He's store-brand Vecna.