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In particular, I'm looking at the retrieval belts that say "Usage worn" not "Usage worn belt."
There are a few other magical belts that are similarly worded.
As it doesn't appear to take up a belt slot, I take it that it can be worn with other belts and that they are more like chest belts (bandoliers) and the like, rather than the kind of belt you wear on your hips?
Can I therefore have one belt in the belt slot, then a bunch of different belts that don't require the belt slot?
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Yes. If an item only says "Usage: worn" then it doesn't conflict with other worn items no matter what the name of the item might imply.
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This also appears to be an improvement over the previous iteration of this item - the Gloves of Storing - which had 'Usage: worn gloves'.
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I gotta get one of these. Game changing item.
Maybe this could the aswer be a yes.
... You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.
... You keep your esoterica in easy-to-access places on your person and are well practiced in brandishing your implement and esoterica together, so you can draw and use esoterica with the same hand you're using to wield an implement.
Note the these text refers to draw, activate and use uncapitalized. So it's not referring to Interact action (that governs draw) nor Activate an Item action. This mean that it's not restrictedly referring to a specific action but to the context of take a scroll and use it with the same hand that you are holding an esoterica.
The Format of Rules states that when a text is referring to a specific rule the book and AoN uses it capitalized once that the works are uncapitalized it can be considered as a more general usage with different rules and actions and many GM may consider like this.The names of specific statistics, skills, feats, actions, and some other mechanical elements in Pathfinder are capitalized. This way, when you see the statement "a Strike targets Armor Class," you know that both Strike and Armor Class are referring to rules.
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This also appears to be an improvement over the previous iteration of this item - the Gloves of Storing - which had 'Usage: worn gloves'.
I wish they had done something similar with Handwraps of Mighty Blows so wearing them didn't conflict with wearing Healer's Gloves.
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This also appears to be an improvement over the previous iteration of this item - the Gloves of Storing - which had 'Usage: worn gloves'.I wish they had done something similar with Handwraps of Mighty Blows so wearing them didn't conflict with wearing Healer's Gloves.
Yes. Most notably because the handwraps affect all unarmed attacks no matter which body part is utilized for the attack. It is unexpected that these items must only be placed on the one specific part of the body.
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I consider the part that says where it's worn on the body to be mostly flavor. The game balance part is done by it costing investment slots.
For example, in a campaign my elf had a cloak of elvenkind (back when that was still politically correct) and a "bowtie of the bat".
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Yes. If an item only says "Usage: worn" then it doesn't conflict with other worn items no matter what the name of the item might imply.
JRPG protagonists everywhere rejoice as wearing 7 belts is allowed RAW. ;)
Unless of course "Usage: worn belt" also exists. (I don't know)Yes. If an item only says "Usage: worn" then it doesn't conflict with other worn items no matter what the name of the item might imply.JRPG protagonists everywhere rejoice as wearing 7 belts is allowed RAW. ;)
Lifting Belt and Dancing Scarf would conflict. You may be able to put multiple of them on, but not invest them or use their magical properties.
What is the pont on the item having stow and retrieve cooldown periods?
Maybe this could the aswer be a yes.
... You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.... You keep your esoterica in easy-to-access places on your person and are well practiced in brandishing your implement and esoterica together, so you can draw and use esoterica with the same hand you're using to wield an implement.Note the these text refers to draw, activate and use uncapitalized. So it's not referring to Interact action (that governs draw) nor Activate an Item action. This mean that it's not restrictedly referring to a specific action but to the context of take a scroll and use it with the same hand that you are holding an esoterica.
I look at it from the other side. Scroll Thaumaturgy allows drawing and using scrolls. It doesn't allow Interact, Manipulate, or Activate an Item in general. You couldn't open a door, use Battle Medicine, or activate a Goz Mask with a hand full of an implement.
So while you may be able use your hand that is holding an Implement to hold the scroll once you get it out of the extradimensional space of the Retrieval Belt, you need to do a general purpose Activate an Item (Manipulate) action in order to access that space - and Scroll Thaumaturgy doesn't give you that ability.
I agree but not exactly with such logic.
Due Activate—Retrieve Item requires a free-hand but you don't have a free hand you are unable to use it because you don't meet the requirements.
Yet due how Second Implement works you can use all your implements into a single-hand keeping your second-hand always free to Retrieve a Scroll from the belt dimensional space.
For example if you are holding a Weapon Implement you can switch it for an Amulet as free-action before use its reaction than in next round you can switch back to your weapon implement before attack.
You only really need to keep implements in both hands if you want to use a passive effect that doesn't uses action (so cannot qualify to Second Implement swap as free action because it states that happens before you use an implement action/reaction) like Tome's +1 circumstance bonus to all skill checks to Recall Knowledge. So if its not the case for your thaumaturge you can always keep a free-hand to Retrieve a Scroll from a Retrieval Belt.
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While you're holding an implement in one hand, you can quickly switch it with another implement you're wearing to use an action from the implement you're switching to. To do so, you can Interact as a free action immediately before executing the implement's action. This allows you to meet requirements of having an implement in hand to use its action. For example, if you had your lantern implement in one hand, a weapon in the other, and a chalice implement you were wearing, you could swap your lantern for your chalice to use its reaction.
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I agree but not exactly with such logic.
It is a bit questionable and debatable.
And just because it isn't RAW doesn't mean that I recommend forbidding it from play. I don't see any real balance problems with allowing retrieval of a scroll from a Retrieval Belt with a hand holding an Implement if you have the Scroll Thaumaturge ability.
This allows you to meet requirements of having an implement in hand to use its action. For example, if you had your lantern implement in one hand, a weapon in the other, and a chalice implement you were wearing, you could swap your lantern for your chalice to use its reaction.
I still wonder what reaction of the Chalice implement is being referenced here...
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What is the pont on the item having stow and retrieve cooldown periods?
The greater version of the belt allows you to store more items, but does not improve the ability to free action draw them.
The main benefit of this is to store multiple items that are different in kind, letting you have a diversity of choice.
For example, a caster that has run out of actions can pick any of 3 different reaction spell scrolls to poof into their hand based on which they think is most likely to trigger.
Or an Alchemist can poof one of 3 buff elixirs to drink during turn 1 based on what the situation is after initiative is rolled.
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I do agree that the Major version of the belt, storing up to 10 items at over 4x the cost of the 3 item version, is just not at all worth that gp.
Even the 340 base --> 600 gp cost to upgrade to the Greater 3 slot version is a hard sell.
Especially as for whatever reason, Paizo did make a choice to NOT have the item take an exclusive slot on the body.
It's not even an loophole ruling to say that you can invest in and use more than one Retrieval Belt to get around the once per minute cooldown.
While I'm happy the piece of gear can genuinely encourage players to actually use consumables, there's no getting around how crazy potent many consumables are in pf2.
And I would posit that the consumable power is explicitly set so high BECAUSE they are typically hard to use without extra actions spend on item handling. Spending class feats to get an item relay familiar is one thing, but a single invested item?
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The Retrieval Belt being a once per minute free draw is so impactful, spell casters might as well be gaining an extra spell slot not per day, but per every single fight. That bonus slot scaling at the rate of the 4/12/30 gp cost of R 1/2/3 scrolls becoming chump change.
And that belt spell slot is super flexible, able to be changed at any time out of combat so long as you have invested a bit of gp into pre-buying the scroll. (Hello there, Prescient Consumable)
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In other words, the Retrieval Belt is theoretically okay balance on paper, but the gear is wildly potent when you have just a bit of pf2 experience.
Unless of course "Usage: worn belt" also exists. (I don't know)
"Usage: worn belt" does exist on a few items.
I wonder if wearing one precludes all other belt items, or if you can have one "Usage: worn belt" and a bunch of "Usage: worn" belts as well.
I wonder if wearing one precludes all other belt items, or if you can have one "Usage: worn belt" and a bunch of "Usage: worn" belts as well.
I still stand by this.
Having it be belt shaped and include 'belt' in the name does not mean that it conflicts with other 'Usage: worn belt' items.
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Unless of course "Usage: worn belt" also exists. (I don't know)"Usage: worn belt" does exist on a few items.
I wonder if wearing one precludes all other belt items, or if you can have one "Usage: worn belt" and a bunch of "Usage: worn" belts as well.
You can only wear one "Usage: worn belt" item, but there isn't any such limit for the number of "Usage: worn" items.
An item that needs to be worn to function lists “worn” as its usage. This is followed by another word if the character is limited to only one of that type of item. For instance, a character can wear any number of rings, so the entry for a ring would list only “worn.” However, if the Usage entry were “worn cloak,” then a character couldn’t wear another cloak on top of that one.
So there's no problem with wearing one "Usage: worn belt" item and a bunch of "Usage: worn" items which happen to have the word "belt" in their name or description.
Trip H., your explanation is very thoughtful.
I think I sugested using shifters prosthesis and scrollstaffs to do the same thing,but it didn't quite work.
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Has the wording for worn items changed in the remaster then? I thought the whole point of investment was that you could wear whatever items you could wear together up to your limit. ie many belts because you can just wear several belts, but not boots or gloves.
No, the limit of one worn item if given a named position has always been there. There aren't a lot of worn items that have that limitation though, so it doesn't come up often. And there are plenty of tables that either don't know about the rule or deliberately ignore it.
This is in addition to investment limits.
Has the wording for worn items changed in the remaster then? I thought the whole point of investment was that you could wear whatever items you could wear together up to your limit. ie many belts because you can just wear several belts, but not boots or gloves.
Insofar as I'm aware, item slots have existed both before and after the Remaster.
Regarding those Handwraps of Mighty Blows, they should at least have the option of wearing them as a headband.
Or like the PF1 bodywraps.
Regarding those Handwraps of Mighty Blows, they should at least have the option of wearing them as a headband.
Or footwraps if your thing is kicking. I never feel an unarmed strike based PC is limited to only punching anyway given how much more versatile your attacks are if you work in kicks/elbows/etc.
I always considered the handwraps more less of something you don't need to stick on your hands since they work on all your unarmed strikes. I told one player they could do the ole rambo trick of strapping it on like a head band if they wanted.
I also let people wear handwraps wherever they want. It's really not a big deal.
Yeah, Handwraps being just "Usage Worn" instead of "Usage: Worn Hands" seems fine.
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I'm just necroing this thread to update that Retrieval Belt was updated by last GM core errata changing "Usage worn" to "Usage worn belt" no more allowing multiple belts being used at same time.
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Page 294: Change retrieval belt’s usage from “worn” to “worn belt”.
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Is this a Remaster thing?
No, 'Usage: worn location' has always been a thing.