How does the swachbuckler Dizzying Defense deeds and the crane style work together

[Adamarh]

Hi,
Well first question is "do they work together?"

Then if it work and i'm understanding everything we have something like this

Fighting Defensively : -4 Attack Bonus & +2 Dodge AC
With the deed Dizzying Defense : -2 Attack Bonus & +4 Dodge AC
With Crane Style : -2 Attack Bonus & +5 Dodge AC
With Crane Wing : -2 Attack Bonus & +5 Dodge AC & +4 Dodge VS melee attack (so +9 total vs melee)
With Crane Riposte : -1 Attack Bonus , +5 Dodge AC & +4 Dodge VS melee attack (so +9 total vs melee)

Is it right or am i missing something?

And what does making Fighting Defensively a swift action change?

[Phoebus Alexandros]

Dizzying Defense and Crane Style will stack because the former specifically increases the base bonus Fighting Defensively provides, while the latter spells out that it provides an additional dodge bonus.

The rest becomes more problematic, though, because Crane Wing increases the base bonus vs. melee attacks. If it said it offered an additional +2 dodge bonus vs. melee attacks, you'd be golden. As written, however, it technically provides nothing.

You'll nonetheless (probably) get a well-meaning debate on that fine distinction between altering the base bonus and providing an additional bonus. I'm not sure that any FAQ addresses this, so I doubt you're going to get a RAW answer. You'll probably have to address this with your GM.

Personally, I think the most fair ruling--based on what I believe to be RAI-- is that Dizzying Defense and the full line of Crane feats result in your character getting a +5 dodge bonus when fighting defensively, a +7 dodge bonus when fighting defensively vs. melee attacks (because that reflects the +2 increase over the new base amount provided by Dizzying Defense and the additional +1 dodge bonus from Crane Style), and a -1 attack penalty.

Adamarh wrote:

And what does making Fighting Defensively a swift action change?

It's the price you pay for an increased dodge bonus. Normally, Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action would net you a +2 dodge bonus to AC and a -4 penalty to attacks and it essentially comes as a "free" action (in that it's packaged into the full attack you're already taking). Dizzying Defense doesn't assume you invested three feats. It gives you a better dodge bonus and a reduced attack penalty in exchange for your swift action for that round.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

I'm finding myself rethinking what I just posted above. Dizzying Defense makes no mention of fighting defensively as a full-round action. I had always assumed the deed simply provided bonuses in exchange for a swift action, but the fact that its text explicitly limits the benefits to fighting defensively as a standard action. I'm not sure how I never picked up on that distinction before.

With that in mind, a swift action (and a point of panache) in exchange for reduced penalties/increased bonuses felt like something in lines with Paizo checks and balances. A swift action (and a point of panache) while effectively limiting the swashbuckler to an attack action (not a full attack), on the other hand? That feels very limited.

So what does this deed change? I can't answer that with confidence anymore.