PossibleCabbage wrote: JiCi wrote: Could be a placeholder title...
Guns & Gears... doesn't seem to require this much remastering, unless it's a booklet and not a chunkier book.
I think the process goes like this:
1) They want to reprint Guns and Gears
2) They want to reprint it without the OGL.
3) There isn't that much OGL stuff in the book, but while they're at it they can apply errata and do another pass on the classes in the book.
4) That's enough to call it a remaster. Pretty much. If it needs reprinting, the only options are to either update it to use the remastered rules/terminology/license (and maybe change a few things on the way), or let it go out of stock permanently. Paizo doesn't want to be in the business of printing new copies of OGL material.
I doubt it'll be a major revision. But based on the comments I saw on this, it looks like this is the treatment books will get going forward, so I think that ends the idea of Player Core 3. There's just no reason for it if there is an ORC version of books like Guns & Gears.
JiCi wrote: Could be a placeholder title...
Guns & Gears... doesn't seem to require this much remastering, unless it's a booklet and not a chunkier book.
It looks like it will be Guns and Gears and it's not just a placeholder title. I posted in the other thread but I'll repost here.
Eric Mona wrote: We'll be discussing this more after Gen Con. Approach will be similar to the Remastered Beginner Box-more bringing the reprint up to date with the Remaster rather than a top-to-bottom overhaul. That will have some implications related to subscriptions, updating existing PDFs, etc. that we haven't quite built into the system for the time being and probably won't for another month or two. Much more info on this on the other side of the con! Mildly optimistic that Michael Sayre did say they do plan to do a mild rebalance patch on the gunslinger though, switch out some stuff they don't like, but they also said that the new Guns and Gears is supposed to have the same "pageification" as the old one. They used the wording "it's an opportunity for little touch ups that go beyond the errata we've done so far."
But it seems to me like any changes must strictly abide by the original Guns and Gear's page count.
So, 19 pages plus a splash screen for Inventor, and 15 pages plus a splash screen for Gunslinger. So if they make any changes, the final version of the class still has to fit these page limits.
Either way, safe to say Player Core 3 is not going to happen at this point, neither is a full remake of the PC3 affected books in a Gods and Gears to Divine Mysteries style.
Frankly I was hoping for a little bit more, but on the more optimistic side, it DOES look like they plan to retune the classes to an extent if there is problematic elements. So it does give me reasonable hope that the remaining Legacy classes will get some of the PC1/2 treatment, though it might not be on as grand a scale of say an Oracle or an Alchemist. And as long as they are brought in to the ORC so that 3pps can use the classes, I think that's more than enough to say they'll be doing their due diligence if they take the reprint and update route. It feels like a reasonable middle ground between wanting the classes to get a second pass but not having to buy Guns and Gears, Dark Archive, and Secrets of Magic Twice to get what is essentially the same thing, as I'm under the assumption the updated PDFs will come free to whoever already owns the original PDFs through Paizo. PLUS, this solves the dubious issue of Rage of Elements being OGL and not ORC, as that one can just get an ORC reprint once they run out of books. Allinall, I think it's net good.
Reprint face lifts for the remaining books is a good compromise for everyone. And it lets Paizo put focus on actual new content instead of the Sisyphean effort of redoing their entire second edition
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They won’t touch secrets of magic, at least not the same way. They basically said so as well. There is too much OGL content spread throughout the entire book. Matching up pages of ORC lore to exact page counts for OGL lore using the same art would be both very expensive and a Herculean challenge. It is a book that pretty much requires a full remastering. Some of the content from it is getting pulled into other products, so that might be how they approach it, but I’m not sure what they’ll do with the classes.
Unicore wrote: They won’t touch secrets of magic, at least not the same way. They basically said so as well. There is too much OGL content spread throughout the entire book. Matching up pages of ORC lore to exact page counts for OGL lore using the same art would be both very expensive and a Herculean challenge. It is a book that pretty much requires a full remastering. Some of the content from it is getting pulled into other products, so that might be how they approach it, but I’m not sure what they’ll do with the classes. They might end up unfortunate OGL casualties, or maybe there will be a last hurrah 2e book before 3e that has space for 2 old classes
A Divine Mysteries style remake of Secrets of Magic sounds apt. Re-explaining how the new baseline of magic concepts work, replacing the Runelord with a new (and likely more setting agnostic) option (now that Runelords are apparently going to be in a Lost Omens book called Rival Academies), maybe adding new spells and spellcaster options. Considering we are getting Battlecry as a martial themed core book, then an accompanying spellcaster themed core book to replace secrets of magic sounds reasonable, and a good way to bring in an updated Magus and Summoner.
You know, replacing Runelord sounds like a good opportunity to bring back the Eldritch Trickster racket for the rogue, maybe as a class archetype instead of a racket.
Deleting everything about schools of magic from Secrets of Magic will open up a huge amount of additional pages they could do something else with. So it's probably better to do a Gods and Magic-> Divine Mysteries transition to Secrets of Magic. I'm just not sure where that would fit on the release calendar though.
Like one reason they might have wanted to update Guns and Gears is if we're going to Arcadia.
I don't think Arcadia is expected to get any new content from the Guns and Gears update. (Boy would I love to see an Arcadia Guide though)
moosher12 wrote: I don't think Arcadia is expected to get any new content from the Guns and Gears update. (Boy would I love to see an Arcadia Guide though) I figure that's gotta be on the docket at some point. Lots of folks I see are asking for it, though my sample size is admittedly very small and some of my perception is likely coming from people asking for it repeatedly. Michael Sayre also seems really excited to dive into it, though, or at least that's a vibe I get when reading discussions on the subject where he contributes.
My hope is it gets done up like Tian Xia is; a huge world guide and character guide pairing with lots of contributions from authors connected to the cultures being emulated and translated.
Perpdepog wrote: moosher12 wrote: I don't think Arcadia is expected to get any new content from the Guns and Gears update. (Boy would I love to see an Arcadia Guide though) I figure that's gotta be on the docket at some point. Lots of folks I see are asking for it, though my sample size is admittedly very small and some of my perception is likely coming from people asking for it repeatedly. Michael Sayre also seems really excited to dive into it, though, or at least that's a vibe I get when reading discussions on the subject where he contributes.
My hope is it gets done up like Tian Xia is; a huge world guide and character guide pairing with lots of contributions from authors connected to the cultures being emulated and translated. Considering all of the rhetoric of the Tian Xia World Guide being written by peoples of various asian ethnicities to keep the content respectful and authentic, the likely barrier to an Arcadia Guide would be hiring up Hispanic, South and Middle American, and Native American writers to do the same.
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moosher12 wrote: Perpdepog wrote: moosher12 wrote: I don't think Arcadia is expected to get any new content from the Guns and Gears update. (Boy would I love to see an Arcadia Guide though) I figure that's gotta be on the docket at some point. Lots of folks I see are asking for it, though my sample size is admittedly very small and some of my perception is likely coming from people asking for it repeatedly. Michael Sayre also seems really excited to dive into it, though, or at least that's a vibe I get when reading discussions on the subject where he contributes.
My hope is it gets done up like Tian Xia is; a huge world guide and character guide pairing with lots of contributions from authors connected to the cultures being emulated and translated. Considering all of the rhetoric of the Tian Xia World Guide being written by peoples of various asian ethnicities to keep the content respectful and authentic, the likely barrier to an Arcadia Guide would be hiring up Hispanic, South and Middle American, and Native American writers to do the same. That sounds like less of a barrier and more of an opportunity to me.
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moosher12 wrote: I don't think Arcadia is expected to get any new content from the Guns and Gears update. (Boy would I love to see an Arcadia Guide though) Well, the point is that if they did an Arcadia AP, Arcadia sourcebook, or Arcadia adventure then they would probably want to point to things from Guns & Gears. So having a version of that book be in print along with whatever Arcadia thing you do is a good idea.
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