Theorycrafting an army of followers


Advice


My DM is running a high level game in a quasi-ancient civilizations mixed with fantasy environment, and as players, we're intended to be warlords trying to take over a Spartan-like city.
Among the things he's allowing is for us to take Leadership. While other players are picking this up primarily for the Cohort, I'm looking to also enable a small army using followers. My character has Suzerain Scepter, so at level 15, he has 80 level1 followers, 8 level2, 4 level3, 2 level4, and 2 level 5.

I've asked for the stats I can use, and if I can actually build these followers using standard classes. He's agreed to this, reminding me that:
* They must be done with the basic NPC ability array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.
* They might never see the light of day in a game.
* A level 15 fireball might wipe out all of them in one round, so they might never be that effective regardless.

Despite that, it's a fun and interesting theorycrafting experiment! My goal is to find a bunch of wide area effects that might make the followers both more survivable and reasonably effective in a battlefield like setting.

Here's what I have so far:

Level 1: Hoplite Soldiers
The Build: Fighter 1, with feats in Shield Focus and Shield Brace to gain THW damage with a shield for extra AC.
Justification: Given the setting, this seems like a fun and thematically consistent starting point.

Level 2: Hoplite "Sargent"
The Build: Fighter 2 (architype: Drill Sargent), same feats as above +Flagbearer
Justification: With no range requirement except to be heard, using Tactics / Teamwork Feats plus Flagbearer gives the Soldiers some flexibility and bonuses

Level 3: War Chanter
The Build: Scald 3, with Skald's vigor, Recovered rage as Feats
Justification: Similarly, Inspire Rage is only limited by being heard by the targets, and does not exhaust the soldiers after it's done.

I haven't considered options for levels beyond 3, though I expect to have up to level 6 followers eventually. I'm thinking of trying to find a follower who can use Inspire Courage or similar bard abilities.

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions?

Dark Archive

The bodyguard feat would be useful on a group of low level fighters to give 1 person a good ac body


80 1st-level Sorcerers with magic missile and expeditious retreat or shield?
Should be useful against anyone without shield, swarms, or a group of 80 enemies tougher than a magic missile.


Get a few clerics, even level 1. Channels can heal a vast amount of damage if your army is packed into the AoE. And depending on domain, they can add a lot of other useful 1st level spells.


Mudfoot wrote:
Get a few clerics, even level 1. Channels can heal a vast amount of damage if your army is packed into the AoE. And depending on domain, they can add a lot of other useful 1st level spells.

Excellent thinking! That 30' Channel Energy radius is exactly the sort of think I'm looking for.


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An army moves on: its stomach, a sea of paper work, its supply train, etc...

Include some low level experts in the organization. They can still wield a weapon and wear light armor but they also come with the various supply and logistics skills to keep your army moving. You need a few smiths, armorers, farriers, cooks, clerks, etc. to support an actual organization.


Actually, if you want to heal an army a life Shaman is the way to go. Make sure to take the healing hex at 2nd level and his healing will be way better than a cleric. At 2nd level he can use the hex once per person in addition to using channel energy. At 5th level the healing hex goes up to a cure moderate wound per day per person. At this level the shaman can probably bring any follower that is not dead up to full HP. A Witch with the healing hex is also better at healing an army than the cleric. The cleric can heal more HP to a smaller number of targets but does not do as well at healing mass numbers.

Make a skald your highest-level follower. Make sure to take Clarion Call as one of his 1st level spells. Raging song has no range limit, but the targets must be able to hear the skald. This will allow his Raging Song to cover vast number of people. At 5th level Skalds get Spell Kenning. Being able to cast any bard, cleric or wizard spell is very useful.

My recommendation for your 5th level followers would be a life Shaman with the healing hex and a Skald.

For the 4th level followers, I would recommend one be either a Ranger or a Slayer. This gives you a character that can sneak into places to gather information but is still decent in combat. At least one of the other 4th level NPCs should be prepared spell casters. A Druid would be a great choice as an army will usually operate outdoors. Their spell list has a lot of useful spells that work better outdoors. A wizard would bring some useful combat spells to the army. Things like fog cloud or minor image will can be a big help to an army. As Sun Tzu says all war is about deception and wizards have a lot of spells that can accomplish that.


marcryser wrote:

An army moves on: its stomach, a sea of paper work, its supply train, etc...

Include some low level experts in the organization. They can still wield a weapon and wear light armor but they also come with the various supply and logistics skills to keep your army moving. You need a few smiths, armorers, farriers, cooks, clerks, etc. to support an actual organization.

While excellent advice, this "army" is based out of a nearby city and I don't know if it's every going to leave or need to travel more than a days' journey. The world we are playing in is somewhat compact, and the threats might be to defend the city from threats as much as anything else.


Just gonna point out that if you make all of your level 1 characters summoners with humanoid eidolons (that are going to have better combat stats than your NPCs and are expendable) you will double the size of your army. Or optionally take hunters or druids that get animal companions. Either works.


Don’t waste the followers gained from leadership for ordinary followers like cooks and porters. Leadership gives you devoted followers that are willing to fight for you and follow you into dangerous situations. The role of workers can be filled by hirelings working for pay. A skilled laborer like a smith costs 3 sp per day, a unskilled laborer is even cheaper at 1 sp per day.

A commoner gets 2 + Int modifier in skills. They also get craft and professional skills as class skills. All you cook needs is PS cook to function. You teamster need handle animal and PS driver.


Absolutely hard to beat full casters and supporting skalds, but a cavalier 5 has banner, great mobility (mount), and tactician abilities that are useful on the battlefield.

The castellan archetype might fit in; loses mount and charging for bonuses in urban terrain and an animal companion like a ranger. Make a good gate captain.


Banner only works on characters within 60’. At 5th level all it gives is a +2 save vs fear and a +1 to attacks made as part of a charge. Tactician gives you a single teamwork feat you can share twice a day for 5 rounds. Raging Song give a +2 to STR and CON, which gives a +1 to hit and damage on all attacks, it also gives a +1 to fortitude save because of the increased CON, and +1 to all will saves. It also gives the targets a rage power. At 5th level the skald will probably have about 13 rounds per day and could extra performance to boost that to 19 rounds. The Skald has much more to offer than the cavalier.

The life shaman will probably have at least 2 uses of channel positive energy. This allows them to heal 3d6 damage per use to a huge amount of the troops. In addition to this he can also use the healing hex to cure 2d8+5 points of damage to once per day on a nearly unlimited number of targets. Assuming 8 hours of rest the actual limit is about 5,760 targets per day. This is not even factoring in spells or other class abilities. Being able to heal your entire army 35 HP per day when most of them don’t even have half that amount of HP is way better than anything a cavalier can do.


Absolutely true! Until the antimagic field hits, anyway.

And I see my post was truncated from what I thought I had added on - cavalier is a thematic choice.

Back to overselling the cavalier:

Banner is not limited by rounds, and there are a few alternate banners. However, losing banner by dropping a cavalier to 4th level, still have the following.

Teamwork feats are admittedly terrible with most standard parties as they either have to group up as fireball bait for adjacent feats or coordinate closely to make others work, usually sacrificing better actions. Within this scenario, it could be possible for the followers 1)to group around the cavalier, 2) receive the teamwork feat shake it off, 3) split into groups of four, and 5) charge the enemy with +1 charge attack, +2 morale vs fear, and a +4 untyped bonus on all saving throws.

Another notable teamwork feat for an army this size:
Blood for the empire bonuses will apply pretty quickly, and likely have a domino effect of the haste ability activating.


Antimagic Field is a 6th level spell; the most powerful follower in the army is only 5th level. When the spell level of a caster exceeds the character level of the most powerful follower the outcome of any conflict is a foregone conclusion.

I could see a cavalier as one of the 4th level characters.

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